Thrivers (book), raising kids in a pressure cooker area

[Anonymous]

I disagree with the claim that the DMV is a pressure cooker. DCUM, maybe. DMV, not really. If anything maybe DC proper, PG and arlington schools being so terrible drives a lot of it. Everyone wants to win the lottery or get in the advanced programs or whatever just to escape mediocrity. But that's not a "pressure cooker." It's just reasonable behavior

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone read this book? It was recommended to me and some many of the descriptions of the kids remind me of kids in the DMV area. Just reading DCUM is exhausting as a parent. The expectations on kids to be perfect at every turn. Being good enough is no longer enough. The kid must be in GT/AAP, excel in EC, start sports at a young age, take tons of APs. In a highly rated public or private school, not some mediocre school! And even with all of that, college admissions are crazy hard. There was a much bigger margin of error when I was growing up. Perfection was not an expectation. According to the book’s author, something has to give because kids are experiencing record levels of depression and anxiety. They have perfect applications and resumes but are miserable and can’t function in the real world. And it’s a fine line in this area between encouraging your kids to do well and being an overbearing parent who pushes a kid too hard. Thoughts? Have you seen this? How do you handle it as a parent?

This is why I'm moving out of the Wootton district. My kid is just fine at school and activities, but he's not great. He's not high achieving. He's well rounded and average in many things. And living in this culture is doing a number on him. So I'm looking for something more reflective of regular American life. He will do fine in life with a career, etc. It just might take him a bit longer to get there. But I need his mental health to be solid.

Thanks for brining the book to my attention. I will check it out.

+1. Left Wootton for the same reason. Found that there was too much of a difference between our notion of childhood (and our parenting style) and our neighbors from Russia, Taiwan, South Korea, South Asia.

Well I'm a parent from Russia, and while I don't know exactly what you mean by the Russian notion of childhood, most of the Russian parents I know are doing what we're doing not necessarily because we want our kids ahead of the pack. It's because we remember our own childhood and while we like this country, we are appalled by the elementary years education even in the better schools. The utter lack of rigor, no homework, no textbooks, no system, no foundation set for the future, no classics, no foreign language, no algebra until god knows when, the complete absence of academic music schools, the amateurish quality of arts and music instruction...the list of goes. So we have to compensate it with extracurriculars outside of school. That's why we put our kids into RSMs, AoPSs, private music, ballet, what have you. We don't want them to miss what we had, even in our restricted, poor, under-resourced but over-educated country.

In fact, while I don't exactly understand this decision, a Russian-American family we know is relocating to Moscow when their youngest hits 5. They want the kids to have the benefit of rigorous, free schooling with cheap, high-quality extracurriculars.

Sorry but I have no desire for the US to emulate Russia. There’s a happy medium.

NP here. Americans have no desire to listen to anyone who criticizes them. God forbid if an immigrant points out the education (K-12) is lacking and they talk about not being a "Tiger Parent" and giving a "childhood" to their children. Well, if that is the case, then you should not mind at all when the poor tortured tiger cub students get all the awards and get into good colleges.

Seriously, you cannot have it both ways. You cannot complain that this is a pressure cooker, but resent when others thrive and do well. If you want to opt out of pressure cooker then you will realize that no one is stopping you. Just don't feel bad that others are doing well academically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone read this book? It was recommended to me and some many of the descriptions of the kids remind me of kids in the DMV area. Just reading DCUM is exhausting as a parent. The expectations on kids to be perfect at every turn. Being good enough is no longer enough. The kid must be in GT/AAP, excel in EC, start sports at a young age, take tons of APs. In a highly rated public or private school, not some mediocre school! And even with all of that, college admissions are crazy hard. There was a much bigger margin of error when I was growing up. Perfection was not an expectation. According to the book’s author, something has to give because kids are experiencing record levels of depression and anxiety. They have perfect applications and resumes but are miserable and can’t function in the real world. And it’s a fine line in this area between encouraging your kids to do well and being an overbearing parent who pushes a kid too hard. Thoughts? Have you seen this? How do you handle it as a parent?

This is why I'm moving out of the Wootton district. My kid is just fine at school and activities, but he's not great. He's not high achieving. He's well rounded and average in many things. And living in this culture is doing a number on him. So I'm looking for something more reflective of regular American life. He will do fine in life with a career, etc. It just might take him a bit longer to get there. But I need his mental health to be solid.

Thanks for brining the book to my attention. I will check it out.

+1. Left Wootton for the same reason. Found that there was too much of a difference between our notion of childhood (and our parenting style) and our neighbors from Russia, Taiwan, South Korea, South Asia.

How is that school free? the price they will pay includes living in a dictatorship.

Well I'm a parent from Russia, and while I don't know exactly what you mean by the Russian notion of childhood, most of the Russian parents I know are doing what we're doing not necessarily because we want our kids ahead of the pack. It's because we remember our own childhood and while we like this country, we are appalled by the elementary years education even in the better schools. The utter lack of rigor, no homework, no textbooks, no system, no foundation set for the future, no classics, no foreign language, no algebra until god knows when, the complete absence of academic music schools, the amateurish quality of arts and music instruction...the list of goes. So we have to compensate it with extracurriculars outside of school. That's why we put our kids into RSMs, AoPSs, private music, ballet, what have you. We don't want them to miss what we had, even in our restricted, poor, under-resourced but over-educated country.

In fact, while I don't exactly understand this decision, a Russian-American family we know is relocating to Moscow when their youngest hits 5. They want the kids to have the benefit of rigorous, free schooling with cheap, high-quality extracurriculars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone read this book? It was recommended to me and some many of the descriptions of the kids remind me of kids in the DMV area. Just reading DCUM is exhausting as a parent. The expectations on kids to be perfect at every turn. Being good enough is no longer enough. The kid must be in GT/AAP, excel in EC, start sports at a young age, take tons of APs. In a highly rated public or private school, not some mediocre school! And even with all of that, college admissions are crazy hard. There was a much bigger margin of error when I was growing up. Perfection was not an expectation. According to the book’s author, something has to give because kids are experiencing record levels of depression and anxiety. They have perfect applications and resumes but are miserable and can’t function in the real world. And it’s a fine line in this area between encouraging your kids to do well and being an overbearing parent who pushes a kid too hard. Thoughts? Have you seen this? How do you handle it as a parent?

This is why I'm moving out of the Wootton district. My kid is just fine at school and activities, but he's not great. He's not high achieving. He's well rounded and average in many things. And living in this culture is doing a number on him. So I'm looking for something more reflective of regular American life. He will do fine in life with a career, etc. It just might take him a bit longer to get there. But I need his mental health to be solid.

Thanks for brining the book to my attention. I will check it out.

+1. Left Wootton for the same reason. Found that there was too much of a difference between our notion of childhood (and our parenting style) and our neighbors from Russia, Taiwan, South Korea, South Asia.

Well I'm a parent from Russia, and while I don't know exactly what you mean by the Russian notion of childhood, most of the Russian parents I know are doing what we're doing not necessarily because we want our kids ahead of the pack. It's because we remember our own childhood and while we like this country, we are appalled by the elementary years education even in the better schools. The utter lack of rigor, no homework, no textbooks, no system, no foundation set for the future, no classics, no foreign language, no algebra until god knows when, the complete absence of academic music schools, the amateurish quality of arts and music instruction...the list of goes. So we have to compensate it with extracurriculars outside of school. That's why we put our kids into RSMs, AoPSs, private music, ballet, what have you. We don't want them to miss what we had, even in our restricted, poor, under-resourced but over-educated country.

In fact, while I don't exactly understand this decision, a Russian-American family we know is relocating to Moscow when their youngest hits 5. They want the kids to have the benefit of rigorous, free schooling with cheap, high-quality extracurriculars.

How is that school free? the price they will pay includes living in a dictatorship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with the claim that the DMV is a pressure cooker. DCUM, maybe. DMV, not really. If anything maybe DC proper, PG and arlington schools being so terrible drives a lot of it. Everyone wants to win the lottery or get in the advanced programs or whatever just to escape mediocrity. But that's not a "pressure cooker." It's just reasonable behavior

Agreed. I think the lack of rigorous education in schools means that students need to be supplemented outside of school. It does not matter if it is an army of tutors or if your kid is learning from Khan Academy. It does mean that parents have the extra burden of making sure that their kids are educated enough to go to college and be able to do the coursework for the professions that are in demand.

[Anonymous]

I don't think the academics is high pressure at all. I think college admissions is ridiculous and arbitrary. They are driving up ridiculous expectations on the students - grades, tests, APs, ECs, Leadership positions, hooks, quirky pasttimes, social work, essays, recommendations. The parenting is being driven by college admissions requirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with the claim that the DMV is a pressure cooker. DCUM, maybe. DMV, not really. If anything maybe DC proper, PG and arlington schools being so terrible drives a lot of it. Everyone wants to win the lottery or get in the advanced programs or whatever just to escape mediocrity. But that's not a "pressure cooker." It's just reasonable behavior

I disagree. Maybe it depends on the specific area. In my neck of the woods in FCPS, expectations are high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the academics is high pressure at all. I think college admissions is ridiculous and arbitrary. They are driving up ridiculous expectations on the students - grades, tests, APs, ECs, Leadership positions, hooks, quirky pasttimes, social work, essays, recommendations. The parenting is being driven by college admissions requirement.

OP here. I agree. I think the expectations of the most rigorous coursework plus tons of ECs means no time at all. By the way, the author isn’t arguing for mediocrity. She talks about instilling certain traits and having your kids succeed. It’s still about wanting kids to excel. But micromanaging your kids ECs (for the express purpose of college admissions), not allowing mistakes, not allowing kids to pursue their interests....those things can backfire and cause a lot of misery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the academics is high pressure at all. I think college admissions is ridiculous and arbitrary. They are driving up ridiculous expectations on the students - grades, tests, APs, ECs, Leadership positions, hooks, quirky pasttimes, social work, essays, recommendations. The parenting is being driven by college admissions requirement.

But does it pan out for all but a few? It doesn’t seem like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you can widen your perspective as to what is a "good" college. I think if you are a parent who went to a highly ranked school (which you probably wouldn't have gotten into today) it can be harder to accept that lots of colleges can lead to a solid career and a happy life but that is the reality. Give yourself some credit that your success was not about you than your specific college.

DH and I both went to regional public universities and have done well. I had to turn down big name schools because of the cost. Now I see that HS classmates who went to those seem to be doing about the same. I also see that my work peers went to a wide range of colleges. My kids will be fine.

Totally agree with this. I went to an ivy league, but followed my passions into a city government job where I've been since 2007. I love it. I'm surrounded by colleagues with a variety of educational paths, including other "top" colleges, city and state schools, etc. We have a passion for the work in common and there is probably a correlation between the top college graduates and success within the bureaucracy of city gov, but I wouldn't credit the college on their resume, per se, with that correlation. I think I would have ended up at the same place with the same salary if I'd gone to any number of lower tier and less expensive schools. I want to make that clear to my kids!

I went to an Ivy League school and my husband went to a state school. I also went to private K-12 and he went public the whole way. He out-earns me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone read this book? It was recommended to me and some many of the descriptions of the kids remind me of kids in the DMV area. Just reading DCUM is exhausting as a parent. The expectations on kids to be perfect at every turn. Being good enough is no longer enough. The kid must be in GT/AAP, excel in EC, start sports at a young age, take tons of APs. In a highly rated public or private school, not some mediocre school! And even with all of that, college admissions are crazy hard. There was a much bigger margin of error when I was growing up. Perfection was not an expectation. According to the book’s author, something has to give because kids are experiencing record levels of depression and anxiety. They have perfect applications and resumes but are miserable and can’t function in the real world. And it’s a fine line in this area between encouraging your kids to do well and being an overbearing parent who pushes a kid too hard. Thoughts? Have you seen this? How do you handle it as a parent?

This is why I'm moving out of the Wootton district. My kid is just fine at school and activities, but he's not great. He's not high achieving. He's well rounded and average in many things. And living in this culture is doing a number on him. So I'm looking for something more reflective of regular American life. He will do fine in life with a career, etc. It just might take him a bit longer to get there. But I need his mental health to be solid.

Thanks for brining the book to my attention. I will check it out.

+1. Left Wootton for the same reason. Found that there was too much of a difference between our notion of childhood (and our parenting style) and our neighbors from Russia, Taiwan, South Korea, South Asia.

Well I'm a parent from Russia, and while I don't know exactly what you mean by the Russian notion of childhood, most of the Russian parents I know are doing what we're doing not necessarily because we want our kids ahead of the pack. It's because we remember our own childhood and while we like this country, we are appalled by the elementary years education even in the better schools. The utter lack of rigor, no homework, no textbooks, no system, no foundation set for the future, no classics, no foreign language, no algebra until god knows when, the complete absence of academic music schools, the amateurish quality of arts and music instruction...the list of goes. So we have to compensate it with extracurriculars outside of school. That's why we put our kids into RSMs, AoPSs, private music, ballet, what have you. We don't want them to miss what we had, even in our restricted, poor, under-resourced but over-educated country.

In fact, while I don't exactly understand this decision, a Russian-American family we know is relocating to Moscow when their youngest hits 5. They want the kids to have the benefit of rigorous, free schooling with cheap, high-quality extracurriculars.

Sorry but I have no desire for the US to emulate Russia. There’s a happy medium.

NP here. Americans have no desire to listen to anyone who criticizes them. God forbid if an immigrant points out the education (K-12) is lacking and they talk about not being a "Tiger Parent" and giving a "childhood" to their children. Well, if that is the case, then you should not mind at all when the poor tortured tiger cub students get all the awards and get into good colleges.

Seriously, you cannot have it both ways. You cannot complain that this is a pressure cooker, but resent when others thrive and do well. If you want to opt out of pressure cooker then you will realize that no one is stopping you. Just don't feel bad that others are doing well academically.

Yikes. You are totally missing the point. Also, RELAX a bit.
-NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the academics is high pressure at all. I think college admissions is ridiculous and arbitrary. They are driving up ridiculous expectations on the students - grades, tests, APs, ECs, Leadership positions, hooks, quirky pasttimes, social work, essays, recommendations. The parenting is being driven by college admissions requirement.

OP here. I agree. I think the expectations of the most rigorous coursework plus tons of ECs means no time at all. By the way, the author isn’t arguing for mediocrity. She talks about instilling certain traits and having your kids succeed. It’s still about wanting kids to excel. But micromanaging your kids ECs (for the express purpose of college admissions), not allowing mistakes, not allowing kids to pursue their interests....those things can backfire and cause a lot of misery.

I wish colleges would just declare they are not going to consider anything but grades, tests, teacher recs and essays. That would ease up the EC pressure. Now people think they have to be perfect in every aspect of their lives for the purposes of college applications. I guess there is more pressure to get good grades, but there is already that. At least when you're not studying, then you can spend your free time noodling around on your guitar with no pressure, instead of running off to prepare for your orchestra practice and violin competition because that will look better on a college application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the academics is high pressure at all. I think college admissions is ridiculous and arbitrary. They are driving up ridiculous expectations on the students - grades, tests, APs, ECs, Leadership positions, hooks, quirky pasttimes, social work, essays, recommendations. The parenting is being driven by college admissions requirement.

But does it pan out for all but a few? It doesn’t seem like it.

NP here. I’m a child of poor Asian immigrants and went to Harvard. I was not at all well rounded. My children are happy well adjusted kids and far better well rounded than I am. My kids play multiple sports, have lots of friends and academics are a given. I don’t push them although I’m sure everyone probably thinks I’m a tiger mom. I just expect excellence. I give my children the opportunity to try and I want them to try their best at everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you can widen your perspective as to what is a "good" college. I think if you are a parent who went to a highly ranked school (which you probably wouldn't have gotten into today) it can be harder to accept that lots of colleges can lead to a solid career and a happy life but that is the reality. Give yourself some credit that your success was not about you than your specific college.

DH and I both went to regional public universities and have done well. I had to turn down big name schools because of the cost. Now I see that HS classmates who went to those seem to be doing about the same. I also see that my work peers went to a wide range of colleges. My kids will be fine.

Totally agree with this. I went to an ivy league, but followed my passions into a city government job where I've been since 2007. I love it. I'm surrounded by colleagues with a variety of educational paths, including other "top" colleges, city and state schools, etc. We have a passion for the work in common and there is probably a correlation between the top college graduates and success within the bureaucracy of city gov, but I wouldn't credit the college on their resume, per se, with that correlation. I think I would have ended up at the same place with the same salary if I'd gone to any number of lower tier and less expensive schools. I want to make that clear to my kids!

I went to an Ivy League school and my husband went to a state school. I also went to private K-12 and he went public the whole way. He out-earns me.

Gender pay inequality though? This would be a more convincing story if the public-educated woman were to earn more than the private-educated woman, which is rare.

[Anonymous]

^ than the private-educated MAN. Typo