Catholic mom wants us to essentially say grace as part of our Jewish kid’s education ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have the right to raise your kids as you want, but technically you are actually not Jewish and neither are your children unless you converted when you married your husband.
In Judaism, the religion is passed from mother to children. So maybe this is where you mom is coming from as she sees (correctly) her grand kids as Christians.

No flame please, I am just pointing out the law.

Now if you want to raise your kids Jewish, I am sure you are aware of the prayer on "washing of hands" followed by the prayer on bread, both are said before eating a meal. And pretty much ANY food has to have a prayer BEFORE eating (haEtz, Hadama, ChaAhKol, ...). In fact, in Judaism, you actually recognize God in pretty much everything. The largest difference between Christianity and Judaism (without wanting to go into theological discussions) is that the God of Israel is unique (no man is or can become God -- nothing with trinity and virgin birth) AND the God of Israel is not into "turning your other cheek" stuff. That is very Christian.
But praying God to have given us what we eat, is not Christian per-se.

You are a piece of work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the right to raise your kids as you want, but technically you are actually not Jewish and neither are your children unless you converted when you married your husband.
In Judaism, the religion is passed from mother to children. So maybe this is where you mom is coming from as she sees (correctly) her grand kids as Christians.

No flame please, I am just pointing out the law.

Now if you want to raise your kids Jewish, I am sure you are aware of the prayer on "washing of hands" followed by the prayer on bread, both are said before eating a meal. And pretty much ANY food has to have a prayer BEFORE eating (haEtz, Hadama, ChaAhKol, ...). In fact, in Judaism, you actually recognize God in pretty much everything. The largest difference between Christianity and Judaism (without wanting to go into theological discussions) is that the God of Israel is unique (no man is or can become God -- nothing with trinity and virgin birth) AND the God of Israel is not into "turning your other cheek" stuff. That is very Christian.
But praying God to have given us what we eat, is not Christian per-se.

My mom absolutely does not consider her Christian. I can assure you of that.

The maternal line thing is only still in play in Orthodox congregations and some very strict Conservative ones. DH’s family is full of rabbis and strict Jews and they have said it’s an outdated thing that really very few non-Orthodox Jews take seriously anymore.

Citing some “law” that has no relevance in the 21st century is honestly just weird. Moreover you are in the minority (assuming you are a Conservative Jew):

The Ratner Center for the Study of Conservative Judaism conducted a survey of 1,617 members of 27 Conservative congregations in the U.S. and Canada in 1995.[116] 69% of respondents to the Ratner Center survey agreed that they would regard personally as a Jew anyone who was raised Jewish—even if their mother was Gentile and their father was Jewish.

Dura lex sed lex. (The law is strict, but it is the law).

You have the right to ignore the law or think that because it is not used in the US, nobody takes it seriously but I can guarantee you that in the rest of this big world, that law is still the law.

And the 5th commandment is "Respect your mother and father so that your life be longer"... That is a very Jewish commandment...

[Anonymous]

My house my rules. My kid my rules.

That said, we are intentionally not religious. my kids came home from Jewish stepmom’s having said a real prayer for the first time. My daughter confusedly asked why the said “Amon” at the end. (amen). It didn’t hurt my kids and what you mom is asking is innocuous enough. I wouldn’t fight this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have the right to raise your kids as you want, but technically you are actually not Jewish and neither are your children unless you converted when you married your husband.
In Judaism, the religion is passed from mother to children. So maybe this is where you mom is coming from as she sees (correctly) her grand kids as Christians.

No flame please, I am just pointing out the law.

Now if you want to raise your kids Jewish, I am sure you are aware of the prayer on "washing of hands" followed by the prayer on bread, both are said before eating a meal. And pretty much ANY food has to have a prayer BEFORE eating (haEtz, Hadama, ChaAhKol, ...). In fact, in Judaism, you actually recognize God in pretty much everything. The largest difference between Christianity and Judaism (without wanting to go into theological discussions) is that the God of Israel is unique (no man is or can become God -- nothing with trinity and virgin birth) AND the God of Israel is not into "turning your other cheek" stuff. That is very Christian.
But praying God to have given us what we eat, is not Christian per-se.

My mom absolutely does not consider her Christian. I can assure you of that.

The maternal line thing is only still in play in Orthodox congregations and some very strict Conservative ones. DH’s family is full of rabbis and strict Jews and they have said it’s an outdated thing that really very few non-Orthodox Jews take seriously anymore.

Citing some “law” that has no relevance in the 21st century is honestly just weird. Moreover you are in the minority (assuming you are a Conservative Jew):

The Ratner Center for the Study of Conservative Judaism conducted a survey of 1,617 members of 27 Conservative congregations in the U.S. and Canada in 1995.[116] 69% of respondents to the Ratner Center survey agreed that they would regard personally as a Jew anyone who was raised Jewish—even if their mother was Gentile and their father was Jewish.

Dura lex sed lex. (The law is strict, but it is the law).

You have the right to ignore the law or think that because it is not used in the US, nobody takes it seriously but I can guarantee you that in the rest of this big world, that law is still the law.

And the 5th commandment is "Respect your mother and father so that your life be longer"... That is a very Jewish commandment...

Wait so you are saying my kid isn’t Jewish, but it would be Jewish to respect my mother on this? How? By saying grace?

Sounds like you just want my kid out of your community. Sorry she isn’t pure enough for you.

We actually are part of a Conservative shul that is open enough to consider someone Jewish even if their mother isn’t. Take it up with our rabbi if you have a problem with it.

[Anonymous]

If mom said grace for herself in front of your family, would you be offended. If mom wants to publicly practice her religion by saying grace, no one else has to join in. Maybe just acknowledge to your child that grandma does not practice (or have the same faith beliefs) as yourself and grandpa. It would be odd that she would have to that part of herself hidden. Tell her you respect that, but don’t evangelize your child. She may have been waiting a long time for this freedom. Now that she’s held up her end by helping you establish yourself as Jewish, she’s ready to focus on herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If mom said grace for herself in front of your family, would you be offended. If mom wants to publicly practice her religion by saying grace, no one else has to join in. Maybe just acknowledge to your child that grandma does not practice (or have the same faith beliefs) as yourself and grandpa. It would be odd that she would have to that part of herself hidden. Tell her you respect that, but don’t evangelize your child. She may have been waiting a long time for this freedom. Now that she’s held up her end by helping you establish yourself as Jewish, she’s ready to focus on herself.

That’s not what’s going on.

She’s pushing us to say grace on our own, even when she’s not here.

[Anonymous]

I’m confused. Jews don’t give thanks to God for food?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, how were you raised? Did your mom insist you say grace? If not, then why not remind her of that. If yes -- well, I got nothin'.

I think saying grace is a nice idea, but like you, I find it very Christian so it doesn't come naturally to me. When i lived in Japan I got into the traditional pre-meal saying there: itadakimasu, sort of "let us partake" or "let us enjoy." totally non-religious, but a nice pause to appreciate the food you're about to eat.

That doesn't help you though. The bottom line is, it's your household and your child and you make the decisions. If you want to find some Hebrew prayer you're comfortable with, even if it's just the brachah you say when you wash your hands before meal, go for it. But it sounds like you don't feel the need to say anything before you eat and that's your choice. Tell your mother you don't say grace, you don't want to say grace, and it's not up for discussion. However, also teach your kids that when they are with your mother or anyone else who says grace, the polite thing to do is to bow your head and be silent. If the grace is not outright religious maybe they can even say "amen." Maybe they can't. But they can be polite and respectful.

- a Jew who attended 12 years at an Episcopal day school

Thanks for this. Of course I’ll teach her to be respectful when my mom says it. My grandma says the traditional Catholic grace and I always just sit quietly when she says it.

My mom used to say this sort of grace when we were kids but didn’t make us say anything.

I figured. So tell her you've got the religious education handled and you don't want to say grace and that's that. (And depending on how old your child is, if you haven't enrolled him/her in Hebrew school yet, consider it. My 6 year old started this year in the kindergarten Sunday class -- and surprisingly likes it -- and he has learned so much in just a couple of months. He was singing the Hannukah blessings with us, with about 70% accuracy. I was astounded.)

I don't know how old your child is but this might be just one of those things that grandparents randomly fixate on. With my mom it's vaccines -- you'd think I was a crazy anti-vaxxer. She's constantly asking if my kids are properly vaccinated (yes!) and have I talked to the pediatrian about xyz. For DH's mom, it's making sure my kids watch enough TV to know all possible cultural references. I admit this is where we butt heads as I grew up fine largely without TV and i disapprove of many of the shows my kids' friends watch. So we've had a lot of conversations in which we talk past each other regarding the value of TV. The bottom line is they're my kids and DH and I decide what they watch in our house. Sounds like you need to have a similar conversation about saying grace and any other religious stuff. (Christmas tree? Easter? etc)

She’ll start Hebrew school next year. my mom doesn’t push anything else Christian. She honestly just seems to have no sense that this is basically a Christian thing. She also suggested we have DD pray at bedtime (something she never had us do as kids).

Funnily enough, my Jewish dad doesn’t give 2 craps if we ever set foot in a synagogue again.

My mom seems to have just a lot of passion about DD being religious without the requisite knowledge to know how to help.

Sorry, OP, but if this is the ONE thing that your mother pushes religion-wise and you’re so dead set against it then the problem is with you. Does your mother live with you and insist on grace every meal? If not, why can’t you just do this one thing for her when she visits, and explain to your daughter that grandma is Catholic and does something a little different and because you respect her and her religion you are allowing it even though it’s not your or your daughter’s religion? Or is it that you actually don’t respect your mother or her religion?

You’re being unreasonable. Your mother is a minority in her own family. She allowed you to be raised in her husband’s religion and she’s allowing you to do the same with your children. She just wants to say grace. Why are you being so obstinate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m confused. Jews don’t give thanks to God for food?

We say certain prayers for certain food items, most notably bread.

We don’t ask God to do certain things like help sick or hungry people before a meal. We do that at other times. What you say before a meal really depends on what you’re eating.

We have a prayer for after the meal, but how it’s said depends on how many people you’re eating with and other factors.

It’s just a lot more involved and doesn’t involve asking God to do specific things for specific people. Praying for the sick and dying is pretty sacred and is done in shul, primarily.

[Anonymous]

Grow up and put your foot down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, how were you raised? Did your mom insist you say grace? If not, then why not remind her of that. If yes -- well, I got nothin'.

I think saying grace is a nice idea, but like you, I find it very Christian so it doesn't come naturally to me. When i lived in Japan I got into the traditional pre-meal saying there: itadakimasu, sort of "let us partake" or "let us enjoy." totally non-religious, but a nice pause to appreciate the food you're about to eat.

That doesn't help you though. The bottom line is, it's your household and your child and you make the decisions. If you want to find some Hebrew prayer you're comfortable with, even if it's just the brachah you say when you wash your hands before meal, go for it. But it sounds like you don't feel the need to say anything before you eat and that's your choice. Tell your mother you don't say grace, you don't want to say grace, and it's not up for discussion. However, also teach your kids that when they are with your mother or anyone else who says grace, the polite thing to do is to bow your head and be silent. If the grace is not outright religious maybe they can even say "amen." Maybe they can't. But they can be polite and respectful.

- a Jew who attended 12 years at an Episcopal day school

Thanks for this. Of course I’ll teach her to be respectful when my mom says it. My grandma says the traditional Catholic grace and I always just sit quietly when she says it.

My mom used to say this sort of grace when we were kids but didn’t make us say anything.

I figured. So tell her you've got the religious education handled and you don't want to say grace and that's that. (And depending on how old your child is, if you haven't enrolled him/her in Hebrew school yet, consider it. My 6 year old started this year in the kindergarten Sunday class -- and surprisingly likes it -- and he has learned so much in just a couple of months. He was singing the Hannukah blessings with us, with about 70% accuracy. I was astounded.)

I don't know how old your child is but this might be just one of those things that grandparents randomly fixate on. With my mom it's vaccines -- you'd think I was a crazy anti-vaxxer. She's constantly asking if my kids are properly vaccinated (yes!) and have I talked to the pediatrian about xyz. For DH's mom, it's making sure my kids watch enough TV to know all possible cultural references. I admit this is where we butt heads as I grew up fine largely without TV and i disapprove of many of the shows my kids' friends watch. So we've had a lot of conversations in which we talk past each other regarding the value of TV. The bottom line is they're my kids and DH and I decide what they watch in our house. Sounds like you need to have a similar conversation about saying grace and any other religious stuff. (Christmas tree? Easter? etc)

She’ll start Hebrew school next year. my mom doesn’t push anything else Christian. She honestly just seems to have no sense that this is basically a Christian thing. She also suggested we have DD pray at bedtime (something she never had us do as kids).

Funnily enough, my Jewish dad doesn’t give 2 craps if we ever set foot in a synagogue again.

My mom seems to have just a lot of passion about DD being religious without the requisite knowledge to know how to help.

Sorry, OP, but if this is the ONE thing that your mother pushes religion-wise and you’re so dead set against it then the problem is with you. Does your mother live with you and insist on grace every meal? If not, why can’t you just do this one thing for her when she visits, and explain to your daughter that grandma is Catholic and does something a little different and because you respect her and her religion you are allowing it even though it’s not your or your daughter’s religion? Or is it that you actually don’t respect your mother or her religion?

You’re being unreasonable. Your mother is a minority in her own family. She allowed you to be raised in her husband’s religion and she’s allowing you to do the same with your children. She just wants to say grace. Why are you being so obstinate?

I wouldn’t care if she was saying it for her.

She’s asking US to say it even when she’s not around.

Don’t you see the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, how were you raised? Did your mom insist you say grace? If not, then why not remind her of that. If yes -- well, I got nothin'.

I think saying grace is a nice idea, but like you, I find it very Christian so it doesn't come naturally to me. When i lived in Japan I got into the traditional pre-meal saying there: itadakimasu, sort of "let us partake" or "let us enjoy." totally non-religious, but a nice pause to appreciate the food you're about to eat.

That doesn't help you though. The bottom line is, it's your household and your child and you make the decisions. If you want to find some Hebrew prayer you're comfortable with, even if it's just the brachah you say when you wash your hands before meal, go for it. But it sounds like you don't feel the need to say anything before you eat and that's your choice. Tell your mother you don't say grace, you don't want to say grace, and it's not up for discussion. However, also teach your kids that when they are with your mother or anyone else who says grace, the polite thing to do is to bow your head and be silent. If the grace is not outright religious maybe they can even say "amen." Maybe they can't. But they can be polite and respectful.

- a Jew who attended 12 years at an Episcopal day school

Thanks for this. Of course I’ll teach her to be respectful when my mom says it. My grandma says the traditional Catholic grace and I always just sit quietly when she says it.

My mom used to say this sort of grace when we were kids but didn’t make us say anything.

I figured. So tell her you've got the religious education handled and you don't want to say grace and that's that. (And depending on how old your child is, if you haven't enrolled him/her in Hebrew school yet, consider it. My 6 year old started this year in the kindergarten Sunday class -- and surprisingly likes it -- and he has learned so much in just a couple of months. He was singing the Hannukah blessings with us, with about 70% accuracy. I was astounded.)

I don't know how old your child is but this might be just one of those things that grandparents randomly fixate on. With my mom it's vaccines -- you'd think I was a crazy anti-vaxxer. She's constantly asking if my kids are properly vaccinated (yes!) and have I talked to the pediatrian about xyz. For DH's mom, it's making sure my kids watch enough TV to know all possible cultural references. I admit this is where we butt heads as I grew up fine largely without TV and i disapprove of many of the shows my kids' friends watch. So we've had a lot of conversations in which we talk past each other regarding the value of TV. The bottom line is they're my kids and DH and I decide what they watch in our house. Sounds like you need to have a similar conversation about saying grace and any other religious stuff. (Christmas tree? Easter? etc)

She’ll start Hebrew school next year. my mom doesn’t push anything else Christian. She honestly just seems to have no sense that this is basically a Christian thing. She also suggested we have DD pray at bedtime (something she never had us do as kids).

Funnily enough, my Jewish dad doesn’t give 2 craps if we ever set foot in a synagogue again.

My mom seems to have just a lot of passion about DD being religious without the requisite knowledge to know how to help.

Sorry, OP, but if this is the ONE thing that your mother pushes religion-wise and you’re so dead set against it then the problem is with you. Does your mother live with you and insist on grace every meal? If not, why can’t you just do this one thing for her when she visits, and explain to your daughter that grandma is Catholic and does something a little different and because you respect her and her religion you are allowing it even though it’s not your or your daughter’s religion? Or is it that you actually don’t respect your mother or her religion?

You’re being unreasonable. Your mother is a minority in her own family. She allowed you to be raised in her husband’s religion and she’s allowing you to do the same with your children. She just wants to say grace. Why are you being so obstinate?

I wouldn’t care if she was saying it for her.

She’s asking US to say it even when she’s not around.

Don’t you see the difference?

There’s obviously a big difference. What’s less obvious is why in the world you are you entertaining it. You are a grown woman-tell her that doesn’t work with your family’s religious practices and move on. Acting as if her (unreasonable) request is a dilemma or burden for you is bizarre.

[Anonymous]

OP, you’re right, but there’s no point in arguing about it further here. The conversation you need to have with your mother. Have you tried asking her why this is so important to her now (is she feeling disconnected from her grandchildren or worrying about her mortality?) and trying to figure out a way in which you can meet her needs without compromising your faith?

[Anonymous]

You’re getting too worked up about it. Just tell her no. If your daughter is 4 or 5 this can’t be the first time you’re telling your parents that you’re doing something differently from how they’d do it. If it is - you have the least contentiousness parent-child relationship of a time on dcum. But like many others on dcum, your problems would be lessened by direct communication. Just say no and it’s not up for discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If mom said grace for herself in front of your family, would you be offended. If mom wants to publicly practice her religion by saying grace, no one else has to join in. Maybe just acknowledge to your child that grandma does not practice (or have the same faith beliefs) as yourself and grandpa. It would be odd that she would have to that part of herself hidden. Tell her you respect that, but don’t evangelize your child. She may have been waiting a long time for this freedom. Now that she’s held up her end by helping you establish yourself as Jewish, she’s ready to focus on herself.

That’s not what’s going on.

She’s pushing us to say grace on our own, even when she’s not here.

I’m offering a suggestion you can give her.

Mom, I’m not teaching my kid to say grace, but you’re welcome to say it whenever you wish —even when we’re together for meals. However, don’t expect us to join you.

Explain to your kid why you’re not joining grandma, but yiu respect grandmas right to practice her own faith traditions.