Separating after 20+ years married. Alimony?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Sister was married for close to twenty years.

When she divorced, she got 1/2 of what her husband earns plus 1/2 his retirement.

The alimony is forever unless she re-marries.
She lives in CA which is hugely a property state.

The state should compel her to work the same number of hours per week as her ex husband. Even if that’s a minimum wage Walmart job, it is unconscionable to think that a State can force a man to work while a woman does no work. Regardless of how great she might have once been as a SAHM, once those child duties are complete (ie kids are in school full time) she has NOT done anything to earn a lifetime of free income with zero work hours.

Uhhh...and most divorced SAH spouses DO go back to work. They need health insurance and they have bills to pay like everyone else does. They also get alimony to help them make ends meet plus half of the marital assets. They don't just get kicked to the curb while the bread winning spouse keeps it all. That's not the way it works.

Uhhh... there's no way then for PP's claim that she gets 1/2 of what her husband earns could be true. I am all for rehabilitative alimony while a divorced spouse gets back on her (or his) feet to re-enter the workforce and support her (or him)self. But on no planet should a spouse EVER (for ANY reason) collect even 1 cent of alimony who does not her (or him)self work a THE SAME # OF HOURS/WEEK in a paying job (or is actively being trained/educated to do so).

Depending on the ages of the people and assets involved, it may not make sense to put money into job training when the couple is already approaching retirement age. You have to look at the big picture. It's not a one size fits all. Why should the husband be able to retire in 5 years while the wife is required to work retail until she's 80?

maybe she should have thought of that before quitting the workforce.

Unfortunately there are numerous reasons that women drop out of the workforce. The workplace was designed by and FOR men. Many women can’t handle leaving a young infant with someone else so they can return to work. Then they get stuck with all of the household chores and child raising. If they return to work they will now have everything at home plus a job. Returning to work can mean a paycut and/or their spouse balking at childcare costs. They have less flexibility since they are starting a new job. Wait...here comes another baby. Same issue again. Now they have been out of the workforce for 5-7 years. Kids are busy in activities and need transportation. Kids get in trouble and need supervision. Elderly parents need assistance and the male children typically shirk most responsibilities.

I agree women should stay in the workforce. But anyone with common sense is going to understand how and why women quit their jobs.

If you put up with a non-contributing spouse, you will get exactly this dynamic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes she can try to get a job but age discrimination is rampant and women in their 50s are particularly hard hit. She is not likely to find anything well-paying with her experience unless she has useful current skills from her work with her husband.

OP what skills do you have from the business?

You are missing the point entirely. It doesn't matter how much she earns. It doesn't matter what skills she has, or not. What matters is she must work (the same # hours/week) as her alimony paying husband.

You keep saying that, but that’s not actually the standard for spousal support.

I keep saying that as a PSA to all that despite all the great alimony reforms that have all but eliminated unjust alimony, there still are a few cases a working husband pays alimony to an Oprah watching unemployed ex wife. Write your local government representative to squash this remaining hole and prevent anyone ever receiving alimony to do nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never worked. Raised two kids. Helped part to full time (unpaid) with DH business for most of marriage. Am I entitled to alimony? Is there still such a thing as permanent alimony? I’m in my mid 50’s.

On what planet did you live that you never worked?

“All women are actresses, I just get paid for it”

Sorry - op again - meant to say never worked after age 35 when our two children were born - worked full time until then. Stopped when had kids for a few years - then started helping more and more with business while raising kids as well............

This is sad, Op. Why on earth are you splitting from your husband after 20 years of building your a life together? I just feel so bad for you and your family. I'm sure this was a very difficult decision for both of you.

Agreed. IDK what OP thinks she's going to find in her late-50's and beyond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed. IDK what OP thinks she's going to find in her late-50's and beyond.

Why are you assuming it's OP's decision? Her lifestyle is going to go down as a result of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Sister was married for close to twenty years.

When she divorced, she got 1/2 of what her husband earns plus 1/2 his retirement.

The alimony is forever unless she re-marries.
She lives in CA which is hugely a property state.

The state should compel her to work the same number of hours per week as her ex husband. Even if that’s a minimum wage Walmart job, it is unconscionable to think that a State can force a man to work while a woman does no work. Regardless of how great she might have once been as a SAHM, once those child duties are complete (ie kids are in school full time) she has NOT done anything to earn a lifetime of free income with zero work hours.

Uhhh...and most divorced SAH spouses DO go back to work. They need health insurance and they have bills to pay like everyone else does. They also get alimony to help them make ends meet plus half of the marital assets. They don't just get kicked to the curb while the bread winning spouse keeps it all. That's not the way it works.

Uhhh... there's no way then for PP's claim that she gets 1/2 of what her husband earns could be true. I am all for rehabilitative alimony while a divorced spouse gets back on her (or his) feet to re-enter the workforce and support her (or him)self. But on no planet should a spouse EVER (for ANY reason) collect even 1 cent of alimony who does not her (or him)self work a THE SAME # OF HOURS/WEEK in a paying job (or is actively being trained/educated to do so).

Depending on the ages of the people and assets involved, it may not make sense to put money into job training when the couple is already approaching retirement age. You have to look at the big picture. It's not a one size fits all. Why should the husband be able to retire in 5 years while the wife is required to work retail until she's 80?

maybe she should have thought of that before quitting the workforce.

Unfortunately there are numerous reasons that women drop out of the workforce. The workplace was designed by and FOR men. Many women can’t handle leaving a young infant with someone else so they can return to work. Then they get stuck with all of the household chores and child raising. If they return to work they will now have everything at home plus a job. Returning to work can mean a paycut and/or their spouse balking at childcare costs. They have less flexibility since they are starting a new job. Wait...here comes another baby. Same issue again. Now they have been out of the workforce for 5-7 years. Kids are busy in activities and need transportation. Kids get in trouble and need supervision. Elderly parents need assistance and the male children typically shirk most responsibilities.

I agree women should stay in the workforce. But anyone with common sense is going to understand how and why women quit their jobs.

x 1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What state are you in?

Maryland

Why the divorce? Maryland looks at fault but is not an alimony friendly state. The length of the marriage, your need for support will be considered but unless you are in your 70s the Jidge is going to expect that you work. Your situation is a reminder to women whose DHs want them to SAH to get a pre or post nup covering alimony

I have never in my life met a man who wanted a SAHW. I've known many men who complain about their deadbeat SAHW who won't get a job.

Seriously? I'm a SAHM and I've known plenty of other SAHMs. I only know of a very small handful of SAHPs who were staying at home against the wishes of their working spouse. That is something you either agree upon or you both continue to work and outsource the domestic duties.

Most men think that they sacrifice to let their W stay home. Most W think they sacrifice by staying home. Most M don't think w sacrifice but instead it's a gift they give. W don't think M sacrifice and they enable him to be successful. M don't think they need the W to be successful.

In a divorce the W wants "her fair share".

Men just want too stop paying for a non contributing spouse.

Both are right, both are wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Sister was married for close to twenty years.

When she divorced, she got 1/2 of what her husband earns plus 1/2 his retirement.

The alimony is forever unless she re-marries.
She lives in CA which is hugely a property state.

The state should compel her to work the same number of hours per week as her ex husband. Even if that’s a minimum wage Walmart job, it is unconscionable to think that a State can force a man to work while a woman does no work. Regardless of how great she might have once been as a SAHM, once those child duties are complete (ie kids are in school full time) she has NOT done anything to earn a lifetime of free income with zero work hours.

Uhhh...and most divorced SAH spouses DO go back to work. They need health insurance and they have bills to pay like everyone else does. They also get alimony to help them make ends meet plus half of the marital assets. They don't just get kicked to the curb while the bread winning spouse keeps it all. That's not the way it works.

Uhhh... there's no way then for PP's claim that she gets 1/2 of what her husband earns could be true. I am all for rehabilitative alimony while a divorced spouse gets back on her (or his) feet to re-enter the workforce and support her (or him)self. But on no planet should a spouse EVER (for ANY reason) collect even 1 cent of alimony who does not her (or him)self work a THE SAME # OF HOURS/WEEK in a paying job (or is actively being trained/educated to do so).

Depending on the ages of the people and assets involved, it may not make sense to put money into job training when the couple is already approaching retirement age. You have to look at the big picture. It's not a one size fits all. Why should the husband be able to retire in 5 years while the wife is required to work retail until she's 80?

maybe she should have thought of that before quitting the workforce.

Unfortunately there are numerous reasons that women drop out of the workforce. The workplace was designed by and FOR men. Many women can’t handle leaving a young infant with someone else so they can return to work. Then they get stuck with all of the household chores and child raising. If they return to work they will now have everything at home plus a job. Returning to work can mean a paycut and/or their spouse balking at childcare costs. They have less flexibility since they are starting a new job. Wait...here comes another baby. Same issue again. Now they have been out of the workforce for 5-7 years. Kids are busy in activities and need transportation. Kids get in trouble and need supervision. Elderly parents need assistance and the male children typically shirk most responsibilities.

I agree women should stay in the workforce. But anyone with common sense is going to understand how and why women quit their jobs.

If you put up with a non-contributing spouse, you will get exactly this dynamic.

EXACTLY. Don’t you women who do this see that you’re creating and propagating situations like OPs? Have some pride and create equality in your relationships! Both work, both contribute to the household, both raise the kids. Otherwise you’re CREATING the situation you complain about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed. IDK what OP thinks she's going to find in her late-50's and beyond.

Why are you assuming it's OP's decision? Her lifestyle is going to go down as a result of this.

He doesn’t respect her, just like most men dont respect SAH wives (once kids are in school at least).

Waiting for responses about how YOUR life is different. Bet OP thought hers was too...

[Anonymous]

most men dont respect SAH wives (once kids are in school at least).

Source? Or are you just making up stuff?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

most men dont respect SAH wives (once kids are in school at least).

Source? Or are you just making up stuff?

Of course he’s making it up. PP had no special knowledge of anyone else’s relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never worked. Raised two kids. Helped part to full time (unpaid) with DH business for most of marriage. Am I entitled to alimony? Is there still such a thing as permanent alimony? I’m in my mid 50’s.

On what planet did you live that you never worked?

“All women are actresses, I just get paid for it”

Sorry - op again - meant to say never worked after age 35 when our two children were born - worked full time until then. Stopped when had kids for a few years - then started helping more and more with business while raising kids as well............

This is sad, Op. Why on earth are you splitting from your husband after 20 years of building your a life together? I just feel so bad for you and your family. I'm sure this was a very difficult decision for both of you.

Agreed. IDK what OP thinks she's going to find in her late-50's and beyond.

OP here. I’m not asking for this. He wants the divorce. He wants someone new and different. I don’t think he even wants younger. Just a change. But we’ve also had a rough few years. Working together is very stressful and we no longer see each other as romantic partners but business partners. Even as far as kids are concerned. It’s just logistics and talk about schedules etc.

[Anonymous]

I don't know about alimony OP but just wanted to welcome you to the Happy Club! Divorced for twenty years now and never regretted it for a minute. It was an amicable divorce and our youngest had just graduated high school.

My ex and I are friends and we are both totally enjoying doing whatever the f*** we want whenever the f*** we want without consulting with anybody else. It was a pretty good marriage until it wasn't.

Oh and BTW I was a SAHM until both kids were in school, then worked and got a degree and I've been working ever since. No alimony, equal split of assets, I let him keep his whole retirement fund and I kept mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Sister was married for close to twenty years.

When she divorced, she got 1/2 of what her husband earns plus 1/2 his retirement.

The alimony is forever unless she re-marries.
She lives in CA which is hugely a property state.

The state should compel her to work the same number of hours per week as her ex husband. Even if that’s a minimum wage Walmart job, it is unconscionable to think that a State can force a man to work while a woman does no work. Regardless of how great she might have once been as a SAHM, once those child duties are complete (ie kids are in school full time) she has NOT done anything to earn a lifetime of free income with zero work hours.

Uhhh...and most divorced SAH spouses DO go back to work. They need health insurance and they have bills to pay like everyone else does. They also get alimony to help them make ends meet plus half of the marital assets. They don't just get kicked to the curb while the bread winning spouse keeps it all. That's not the way it works.

Uhhh... there's no way then for PP's claim that she gets 1/2 of what her husband earns could be true. I am all for rehabilitative alimony while a divorced spouse gets back on her (or his) feet to re-enter the workforce and support her (or him)self. But on no planet should a spouse EVER (for ANY reason) collect even 1 cent of alimony who does not her (or him)self work a THE SAME # OF HOURS/WEEK in a paying job (or is actively being trained/educated to do so).

Depending on the ages of the people and assets involved, it may not make sense to put money into job training when the couple is already approaching retirement age. You have to look at the big picture. It's not a one size fits all. Why should the husband be able to retire in 5 years while the wife is required to work retail until she's 80?

maybe she should have thought of that before quitting the workforce.

Unfortunately there are numerous reasons that women drop out of the workforce. The workplace was designed by and FOR men. Many women can’t handle leaving a young infant with someone else so they can return to work. Then they get stuck with all of the household chores and child raising. If they return to work they will now have everything at home plus a job. Returning to work can mean a paycut and/or their spouse balking at childcare costs. They have less flexibility since they are starting a new job. Wait...here comes another baby. Same issue again. Now they have been out of the workforce for 5-7 years. Kids are busy in activities and need transportation. Kids get in trouble and need supervision. Elderly parents need assistance and the male children typically shirk most responsibilities.

I agree women should stay in the workforce. But anyone with common sense is going to understand how and why women quit their jobs.

If you put up with a non-contributing spouse, you will get exactly this dynamic.

This passive language is so weird. “Here comes another baby!” No. Babies don’t just come. People choose to have them. It is absolutely 100% possible to have kids AND work. Does it mean some household stuff falls by the wayside? Maybe. Does it mean your kids might have to carpool instead of being personally chauffeured by you? Maybe. It also means that if in 20 years your husband leaves you you’re not ass out like OP is because you did unpaid labor all this time for other people and didn’t think to make sure if you were doing work it was work that could actually set you up to be ok in the event you one day had to be.

I have daughters and if they want to stay home when their kids are little, I would support that and I did that. But I will be DAMNED if I or them are ever in a position like OP where they spend their life helping their husband and kids live life 20% more comfortably and have no earnings, no work experience, no skills to show for it. F*ck that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alimony is for the pathetic . Support yourself. Gravy train is over. Don’t you have any pride?

....said the angry disgruntled exDH.

Actually I’m a happily married working woman who takes full responsibility for my own financial life. And manages to be an excellent mom at the same time. There are a million of us out there, and a million of us on these boards.

Happily married? I can't say. Happy? Doubtful based on your desire to bash someone going through a very difficult time.

Excellent comeback! +1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never worked. Raised two kids. Helped part to full time (unpaid) with DH business for most of marriage. Am I entitled to alimony? Is there still such a thing as permanent alimony? I’m in my mid 50’s.

On what planet did you live that you never worked?

“All women are actresses, I just get paid for it”

Sorry - op again - meant to say never worked after age 35 when our two children were born - worked full time until then. Stopped when had kids for a few years - then started helping more and more with business while raising kids as well............

This is sad, Op. Why on earth are you splitting from your husband after 20 years of building your a life together? I just feel so bad for you and your family. I'm sure this was a very difficult decision for both of you.

Agreed. IDK what OP thinks she's going to find in her late-50's and beyond.

OP here. I’m not asking for this. He wants the divorce. He wants someone new and different. I don’t think he even wants younger. Just a change. But we’ve also had a rough few years. Working together is very stressful and we no longer see each other as romantic partners but business partners. Even as far as kids are concerned. It’s just logistics and talk about schedules etc.

He doesn’t see you as a business partner, he sees you as an employee. Otherwise, you’d presumably have equal share and stake and ownership of this company you helped build and run and this conversation would be moot.