Do you think having sex on the same bed while 13mo child is sleeping consider child abused?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also a mandated reporter, for the county I live in as well as the county north of where I live. I don't think either of the hotlines I call would end up taking a formal report for this. I'm not saying it's not "weird", hey I couldn't even get in the mood with my dog in the room, but that doesn't mean it's illegal.

"indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"

To the PPs who believe that having sex in the same bed/room as your child (not to mention, while the child is sleeping) qualifies as "indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"- does this mean you also believe it's CSA to walk around the home naked (even if just to walk from the bathroom to the bedroom)? or bathe with a child? I'm honestly wondering, not trying to imply anything.

"displaying pornography to a child"

Wondering, does anyone believe having live sex in front of a child constitutes "displaying porn to a child"? Again, I think I'd feel uncomfortable but I don't believe it's abuse nor do I believe the county would make a report or actively investigate this. This topic came up because of co-sleeping, correct? We're not talking about a couple who built a stage in their living room to have sex on with their kids as the audience.

What is the difference in children watching adults have sex live in front of them and watching adults have sex on TV?

I think a hotline is probably going to look at the overall situation. They might be concerned about parents in a living space so small that there are not enough sleeping areas for everyone to have a private space. They might be concerned about parents cosleeping at all. I think the hotline would be concerned about the story where a woman has incestual sex while her older children watch TV in the same room. But I don't think that they will be as concerned about a couple having sex in the same room as their child, or even the same bed as their sleeping child.

Also, for what it's worth, in order to display genitals OR pornography to a child, the child has to actually be awake. The poster who related the original story states pretty clearly that her child was asleep at the time. I've fooled around with my husband when we all shared a bed on vacation. We didn't have sex, but that was primary because it's pretty hard to get in the mood when your baby is snoring next to you. Was the making out sex abuse too, PPs?

Correct, the hotline will look at the overall situation and usually has the ability to search the database to see if the family has had any formal reports taken and/or investigated.

Keep in mind, the last dozen calls I've made were to do with flat out CSA between parent or sibling and a child (child told me), suspected child sex trafficking, and parents doing drugs with their young children (and by with I don't mean in the same area, I mean doing drugs while their child also does the drug). If I called because of a middle class family (not that this SHOULD have anything to do with it but in the neighborhood I live in, it does) TTC while their infant/toddler peacefully sleeps in the bed next to them, the operator would probably laugh or at least think I was an idiot.

Just because worse things happen doesn't make it right.

Several people have posted that they aren't as shocked or horrified as you are. Several people have said that while they wouldn't do it and don't really understand how a person could find that romantic, they do not find it to be sexual abuse.

Look, sexual abuse is real. I work with traumatized kids and it is absolutely heartbreaking. But you need to put things in perspective. The parent who posted on the other thread (and this one) is not a predator. She and her husband are not involving their child in their sex life. They maybe should go in the other room, but I do not find anything dangerous or predatory about what was described. People who take definitions on Wikipedia, of all places, literally in the way that many on this thread are doing minimize the dangerous actual abuse that happens to children every day.

That said, if what you're really after is to sit around and pat yourself on the back about what a perfect virtuous person you are, and how other people's sliding scale of evil is beneath you, that's entirely up to you. I don't think it does anything for child abuse victims, though.

Oh, give me a break. I never said I was perfect or virtuous. And of course, there are worse things. No one is arguing otherwise.

I have no idea what the person posted on any other thread. I didn't read it. I am answering the OP's question, which is whether or not I consider it abuse to have sex with a 13 month old in the bed. I do consider that abuse. I think it can absolutely be harmful to a baby's developing psyche and shows a horrific lack of judgment. If a parent needs to TTC that badly, go have sex in the bathroom. I find it really disturbing that anyone would say this is ok. And I'm no Puritan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also a mandated reporter, for the county I live in as well as the county north of where I live. I don't think either of the hotlines I call would end up taking a formal report for this. I'm not saying it's not "weird", hey I couldn't even get in the mood with my dog in the room, but that doesn't mean it's illegal.

"indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"

To the PPs who believe that having sex in the same bed/room as your child (not to mention, while the child is sleeping) qualifies as "indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"- does this mean you also believe it's CSA to walk around the home naked (even if just to walk from the bathroom to the bedroom)? or bathe with a child? I'm honestly wondering, not trying to imply anything.

"displaying pornography to a child"

Wondering, does anyone believe having live sex in front of a child constitutes "displaying porn to a child"? Again, I think I'd feel uncomfortable but I don't believe it's abuse nor do I believe the county would make a report or actively investigate this. This topic came up because of co-sleeping, correct? We're not talking about a couple who built a stage in their living room to have sex on with their kids as the audience.

What is the difference in children watching adults have sex live in front of them and watching adults have sex on TV?

I think a hotline is probably going to look at the overall situation. They might be concerned about parents in a living space so small that there are not enough sleeping areas for everyone to have a private space. They might be concerned about parents cosleeping at all. I think the hotline would be concerned about the story where a woman has incestual sex while her older children watch TV in the same room. But I don't think that they will be as concerned about a couple having sex in the same room as their child, or even the same bed as their sleeping child.

Also, for what it's worth, in order to display genitals OR pornography to a child, the child has to actually be awake. The poster who related the original story states pretty clearly that her child was asleep at the time. I've fooled around with my husband when we all shared a bed on vacation. We didn't have sex, but that was primary because it's pretty hard to get in the mood when your baby is snoring next to you. Was the making out sex abuse too, PPs?

Correct, the hotline will look at the overall situation and usually has the ability to search the database to see if the family has had any formal reports taken and/or investigated.

Keep in mind, the last dozen calls I've made were to do with flat out CSA between parent or sibling and a child (child told me), suspected child sex trafficking, and parents doing drugs with their young children (and by with I don't mean in the same area, I mean doing drugs while their child also does the drug). If I called because of a middle class family (not that this SHOULD have anything to do with it but in the neighborhood I live in, it does) TTC while their infant/toddler peacefully sleeps in the bed next to them, the operator would probably laugh or at least think I was an idiot.

Just because worse things happen doesn't make it right.

It doesn't make it child abuse either. the other thread has the definition posted--it talks about harm, potential harm, or threatened harm. I said it there and I'll say it here: please describe what harm is done to an infant sleeping next to TTC parents. The best anyone has been able to do is say it might be evidence of poor judgment, poverty, or that the cosleeping might be endangering the child. Nobody has tried to claim it will harm the child's development, sexual or otherwise. Just this vague "omg, sex, gross" objection.

Would you let an infant hang out in a room, in view, of a gruesomely violent movie?

depends. Is the baby asleep? yes. Is the movie loud? Probably not.

We used to watch True Blood (sex AND violence!) with our newborn, who would nurse or sleep through it entirely. Now that she is old enough to want our attention every few minutes, it's not feasible while she's awake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get real people. Before you all had 6000sf homes, generations have been living in one room huts. Parents have been fucking in front of sleeping kids for ages.

I agree. I don't think it's ideal and that adults should be a discreet as possible, but the reality is that having ones private room to have sex in is the exception not the norm in most of the world. I am not saying it's ideal, but it's no sociopathic either.

+2 to this.

I agree too. I have had sex with my husband while our kids slept in the same hotel room in a bed next to us. We were quiet and doing it under the covers. My kids were young (both under 4). They are now 11 and 9, and while I wouldn't consider it child abuse, I would not feel comfortable doing it with them in the room.

Really, that's gross. You are selfish. You couldn't just calm your hormones for one night? At that age, it would be bad if they woke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get real people. Before you all had 6000sf homes, generations have been living in one room huts. Parents have been fucking in front of sleeping kids for ages.

I agree. I don't think it's ideal and that adults should be a discreet as possible, but the reality is that having ones private room to have sex in is the exception not the norm in most of the world. I am not saying it's ideal, but it's no sociopathic either.

+2 to this.

I agree too. I have had sex with my husband while our kids slept in the same hotel room in a bed next to us. We were quiet and doing it under the covers. My kids were young (both under 4). They are now 11 and 9, and while I wouldn't consider it child abuse, I would not feel comfortable doing it with them in the room.

Really, that's gross. You are selfish. You couldn't just calm your hormones for one night? At that age, it would be bad if they woke.

Agree. That's freaking gross. My 3 year old would be asking ALL kinds of questions, and the idea of doing it in front of him * shudder*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also a mandated reporter, for the county I live in as well as the county north of where I live. I don't think either of the hotlines I call would end up taking a formal report for this. I'm not saying it's not "weird", hey I couldn't even get in the mood with my dog in the room, but that doesn't mean it's illegal.

"indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"

To the PPs who believe that having sex in the same bed/room as your child (not to mention, while the child is sleeping) qualifies as "indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"- does this mean you also believe it's CSA to walk around the home naked (even if just to walk from the bathroom to the bedroom)? or bathe with a child? I'm honestly wondering, not trying to imply anything.

"displaying pornography to a child"

Wondering, does anyone believe having live sex in front of a child constitutes "displaying porn to a child"? Again, I think I'd feel uncomfortable but I don't believe it's abuse nor do I believe the county would make a report or actively investigate this. This topic came up because of co-sleeping, correct? We're not talking about a couple who built a stage in their living room to have sex on with their kids as the audience.

What is the difference in children watching adults have sex live in front of them and watching adults have sex on TV?

I think a hotline is probably going to look at the overall situation. They might be concerned about parents in a living space so small that there are not enough sleeping areas for everyone to have a private space. They might be concerned about parents cosleeping at all. I think the hotline would be concerned about the story where a woman has incestual sex while her older children watch TV in the same room. But I don't think that they will be as concerned about a couple having sex in the same room as their child, or even the same bed as their sleeping child.

Also, for what it's worth, in order to display genitals OR pornography to a child, the child has to actually be awake. The poster who related the original story states pretty clearly that her child was asleep at the time. I've fooled around with my husband when we all shared a bed on vacation. We didn't have sex, but that was primary because it's pretty hard to get in the mood when your baby is snoring next to you. Was the making out sex abuse too, PPs?

Correct, the hotline will look at the overall situation and usually has the ability to search the database to see if the family has had any formal reports taken and/or investigated.

Keep in mind, the last dozen calls I've made were to do with flat out CSA between parent or sibling and a child (child told me), suspected child sex trafficking, and parents doing drugs with their young children (and by with I don't mean in the same area, I mean doing drugs while their child also does the drug). If I called because of a middle class family (not that this SHOULD have anything to do with it but in the neighborhood I live in, it does) TTC while their infant/toddler peacefully sleeps in the bed next to them, the operator would probably laugh or at least think I was an idiot.

Just because worse things happen doesn't make it right.

Many things that aren't "right" are also not abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also a mandated reporter, for the county I live in as well as the county north of where I live. I don't think either of the hotlines I call would end up taking a formal report for this. I'm not saying it's not "weird", hey I couldn't even get in the mood with my dog in the room, but that doesn't mean it's illegal.

"indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"

To the PPs who believe that having sex in the same bed/room as your child (not to mention, while the child is sleeping) qualifies as "indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"- does this mean you also believe it's CSA to walk around the home naked (even if just to walk from the bathroom to the bedroom)? or bathe with a child? I'm honestly wondering, not trying to imply anything.

"displaying pornography to a child"

Wondering, does anyone believe having live sex in front of a child constitutes "displaying porn to a child"? Again, I think I'd feel uncomfortable but I don't believe it's abuse nor do I believe the county would make a report or actively investigate this. This topic came up because of co-sleeping, correct? We're not talking about a couple who built a stage in their living room to have sex on with their kids as the audience.

What is the difference in children watching adults have sex live in front of them and watching adults have sex on TV?

I think a hotline is probably going to look at the overall situation. They might be concerned about parents in a living space so small that there are not enough sleeping areas for everyone to have a private space. They might be concerned about parents cosleeping at all. I think the hotline would be concerned about the story where a woman has incestual sex while her older children watch TV in the same room. But I don't think that they will be as concerned about a couple having sex in the same room as their child, or even the same bed as their sleeping child.

Also, for what it's worth, in order to display genitals OR pornography to a child, the child has to actually be awake. The poster who related the original story states pretty clearly that her child was asleep at the time. I've fooled around with my husband when we all shared a bed on vacation. We didn't have sex, but that was primary because it's pretty hard to get in the mood when your baby is snoring next to you. Was the making out sex abuse too, PPs?

Correct, the hotline will look at the overall situation and usually has the ability to search the database to see if the family has had any formal reports taken and/or investigated.

Keep in mind, the last dozen calls I've made were to do with flat out CSA between parent or sibling and a child (child told me), suspected child sex trafficking, and parents doing drugs with their young children (and by with I don't mean in the same area, I mean doing drugs while their child also does the drug). If I called because of a middle class family (not that this SHOULD have anything to do with it but in the neighborhood I live in, it does) TTC while their infant/toddler peacefully sleeps in the bed next to them, the operator would probably laugh or at least think I was an idiot.

Just because worse things happen doesn't make it right.

Many things that aren't "right" are also not abuse.

Obviously. But that pp is basically saying "if they aren't having actual sex with the kid, it can't be abuse!" False.

[Anonymous]

No, not at all.
And although I strongly believe it's not abuse in any form, we still do it in the other room. It just feels weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also a mandated reporter, for the county I live in as well as the county north of where I live. I don't think either of the hotlines I call would end up taking a formal report for this. I'm not saying it's not "weird", hey I couldn't even get in the mood with my dog in the room, but that doesn't mean it's illegal.

"indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"

To the PPs who believe that having sex in the same bed/room as your child (not to mention, while the child is sleeping) qualifies as "indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"- does this mean you also believe it's CSA to walk around the home naked (even if just to walk from the bathroom to the bedroom)? or bathe with a child? I'm honestly wondering, not trying to imply anything.

"displaying pornography to a child"

Wondering, does anyone believe having live sex in front of a child constitutes "displaying porn to a child"? Again, I think I'd feel uncomfortable but I don't believe it's abuse nor do I believe the county would make a report or actively investigate this. This topic came up because of co-sleeping, correct? We're not talking about a couple who built a stage in their living room to have sex on with their kids as the audience.

What is the difference in children watching adults have sex live in front of them and watching adults have sex on TV?

I think a hotline is probably going to look at the overall situation. They might be concerned about parents in a living space so small that there are not enough sleeping areas for everyone to have a private space. They might be concerned about parents cosleeping at all. I think the hotline would be concerned about the story where a woman has incestual sex while her older children watch TV in the same room. But I don't think that they will be as concerned about a couple having sex in the same room as their child, or even the same bed as their sleeping child.

Also, for what it's worth, in order to display genitals OR pornography to a child, the child has to actually be awake. The poster who related the original story states pretty clearly that her child was asleep at the time. I've fooled around with my husband when we all shared a bed on vacation. We didn't have sex, but that was primary because it's pretty hard to get in the mood when your baby is snoring next to you. Was the making out sex abuse too, PPs?

Correct, the hotline will look at the overall situation and usually has the ability to search the database to see if the family has had any formal reports taken and/or investigated.

Keep in mind, the last dozen calls I've made were to do with flat out CSA between parent or sibling and a child (child told me), suspected child sex trafficking, and parents doing drugs with their young children (and by with I don't mean in the same area, I mean doing drugs while their child also does the drug). If I called because of a middle class family (not that this SHOULD have anything to do with it but in the neighborhood I live in, it does) TTC while their infant/toddler peacefully sleeps in the bed next to them, the operator would probably laugh or at least think I was an idiot.

Just because worse things happen doesn't make it right.

It doesn't make it child abuse either. the other thread has the definition posted--it talks about harm, potential harm, or threatened harm. I said it there and I'll say it here: please describe what harm is done to an infant sleeping next to TTC parents. The best anyone has been able to do is say it might be evidence of poor judgment, poverty, or that the cosleeping might be endangering the child. Nobody has tried to claim it will harm the child's development, sexual or otherwise. Just this vague "omg, sex, gross" objection.

Would you let an infant hang out in a room, in view, of a gruesomely violent movie?

I'm voting YES for this. All the time. As long as the volume isn't too loud. By infant I'm thinking my newborn or 4 month old, usually sleeping or nursing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get real people. Before you all had 6000sf homes, generations have been living in one room huts. Parents have been fucking in front of sleeping kids for ages.

I agree. I don't think it's ideal and that adults should be a discreet as possible, but the reality is that having ones private room to have sex in is the exception not the norm in most of the world. I am not saying it's ideal, but it's no sociopathic either.

+2 to this.

I agree too. I have had sex with my husband while our kids slept in the same hotel room in a bed next to us. We were quiet and doing it under the covers. My kids were young (both under 4). They are now 11 and 9, and while I wouldn't consider it child abuse, I would not feel comfortable doing it with them in the room.

Really, that's gross. You are selfish. You couldn't just calm your hormones for one night? At that age, it would be bad if they woke.

Agree. That's freaking gross. My 3 year old would be asking ALL kinds of questions, and the idea of doing it in front of him * shudder*

Put down your pearls Margaret! Kids were asleep and definitely not asking questions. Some of us are capable of having sex quietly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also a mandated reporter, for the county I live in as well as the county north of where I live. I don't think either of the hotlines I call would end up taking a formal report for this. I'm not saying it's not "weird", hey I couldn't even get in the mood with my dog in the room, but that doesn't mean it's illegal.

"indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"

To the PPs who believe that having sex in the same bed/room as your child (not to mention, while the child is sleeping) qualifies as "indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"- does this mean you also believe it's CSA to walk around the home naked (even if just to walk from the bathroom to the bedroom)? or bathe with a child? I'm honestly wondering, not trying to imply anything.

"displaying pornography to a child"

Wondering, does anyone believe having live sex in front of a child constitutes "displaying porn to a child"? Again, I think I'd feel uncomfortable but I don't believe it's abuse nor do I believe the county would make a report or actively investigate this. This topic came up because of co-sleeping, correct? We're not talking about a couple who built a stage in their living room to have sex on with their kids as the audience.

What is the difference in children watching adults have sex live in front of them and watching adults have sex on TV?

I think a hotline is probably going to look at the overall situation. They might be concerned about parents in a living space so small that there are not enough sleeping areas for everyone to have a private space. They might be concerned about parents cosleeping at all. I think the hotline would be concerned about the story where a woman has incestual sex while her older children watch TV in the same room. But I don't think that they will be as concerned about a couple having sex in the same room as their child, or even the same bed as their sleeping child.

Also, for what it's worth, in order to display genitals OR pornography to a child, the child has to actually be awake. The poster who related the original story states pretty clearly that her child was asleep at the time. I've fooled around with my husband when we all shared a bed on vacation. We didn't have sex, but that was primary because it's pretty hard to get in the mood when your baby is snoring next to you. Was the making out sex abuse too, PPs?

Correct, the hotline will look at the overall situation and usually has the ability to search the database to see if the family has had any formal reports taken and/or investigated.

Keep in mind, the last dozen calls I've made were to do with flat out CSA between parent or sibling and a child (child told me), suspected child sex trafficking, and parents doing drugs with their young children (and by with I don't mean in the same area, I mean doing drugs while their child also does the drug). If I called because of a middle class family (not that this SHOULD have anything to do with it but in the neighborhood I live in, it does) TTC while their infant/toddler peacefully sleeps in the bed next to them, the operator would probably laugh or at least think I was an idiot.

Just because worse things happen doesn't make it right.

Several people have posted that they aren't as shocked or horrified as you are. Several people have said that while they wouldn't do it and don't really understand how a person could find that romantic, they do not find it to be sexual abuse.

Look, sexual abuse is real. I work with traumatized kids and it is absolutely heartbreaking. But you need to put things in perspective. The parent who posted on the other thread (and this one) is not a predator. She and her husband are not involving their child in their sex life. They maybe should go in the other room, but I do not find anything dangerous or predatory about what was described. People who take definitions on Wikipedia, of all places, literally in the way that many on this thread are doing minimize the dangerous actual abuse that happens to children every day.

That said, if what you're really after is to sit around and pat yourself on the back about what a perfect virtuous person you are, and how other people's sliding scale of evil is beneath you, that's entirely up to you. I don't think it does anything for child abuse victims, though.

I just want to point out that there are at least two people posting here (myself and this PP) who seem to work in the field of child abuse/traumatized children. I am the one who posted about the last dozen calls I've made and said the operator would laugh at me if I called about a couple TTC in the same bed as their sleeping infant.

I'm pointing this out because we both seem to agree that this is not considered abuse. The fact that some of you feel "icky" about this is understandable, maybe you just don't understand what ABUSE means, you grew up with a relatively privileged mentality (as I did) and never really experienced abuse. However, I know what abuse is and what it is not. When it comes to CPS and the law, this is not abuse and would not be investigated. Alternately, I wonder if some of the people here who believe it is abuse have been sexually abused/assaulted themselves...seriously not trying to cross the line here, I'm just trying to figure out what's going on...and are hypersensitive when it comes to CSA. Please do not take offense to my post if this is the case.

[Anonymous]

Some people just read "sex, kid, same bed" and turn it into their own question and feeling instead of seeing the whole picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some people just read "sex, kid, same bed" and turn it into their own question and feeling instead of seeing the whole picture.

what's so fascinating is last week we had those two very reasonable cosleeping threads, so civil and educational, even the people who were asking questions were respectful and open-minded. I remember being impressed at how smoothly they were going. This is like the pent-up freakout that somehow didn't get tapped last week. Maybe they all were on vacation?

[Anonymous]

I don't think parental intentions matter. The child doesn't know if what they see and hear is due to TTC or due to a porno being filmed or due to wild make-up sex after a night of drinking, or due to a romantic night of lovemaking.

If you live in a one room house, then I can see doing the best with what you can - being as discreet as possible - especially as the kids get older. If you have the option of other rooms then I think it is weird to want to have sex with your kids in the bed with you. Either put the kids in their own beds or go to another room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also a mandated reporter, for the county I live in as well as the county north of where I live. I don't think either of the hotlines I call would end up taking a formal report for this. I'm not saying it's not "weird", hey I couldn't even get in the mood with my dog in the room, but that doesn't mean it's illegal.

"indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"

To the PPs who believe that having sex in the same bed/room as your child (not to mention, while the child is sleeping) qualifies as "indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"- does this mean you also believe it's CSA to walk around the home naked (even if just to walk from the bathroom to the bedroom)? or bathe with a child? I'm honestly wondering, not trying to imply anything.

"displaying pornography to a child"

Wondering, does anyone believe having live sex in front of a child constitutes "displaying porn to a child"? Again, I think I'd feel uncomfortable but I don't believe it's abuse nor do I believe the county would make a report or actively investigate this. This topic came up because of co-sleeping, correct? We're not talking about a couple who built a stage in their living room to have sex on with their kids as the audience.

What is the difference in children watching adults have sex live in front of them and watching adults have sex on TV?

I think a hotline is probably going to look at the overall situation. They might be concerned about parents in a living space so small that there are not enough sleeping areas for everyone to have a private space. They might be concerned about parents cosleeping at all. I think the hotline would be concerned about the story where a woman has incestual sex while her older children watch TV in the same room. But I don't think that they will be as concerned about a couple having sex in the same room as their child, or even the same bed as their sleeping child.

Also, for what it's worth, in order to display genitals OR pornography to a child, the child has to actually be awake. The poster who related the original story states pretty clearly that her child was asleep at the time. I've fooled around with my husband when we all shared a bed on vacation. We didn't have sex, but that was primary because it's pretty hard to get in the mood when your baby is snoring next to you. Was the making out sex abuse too, PPs?

Correct, the hotline will look at the overall situation and usually has the ability to search the database to see if the family has had any formal reports taken and/or investigated.

Keep in mind, the last dozen calls I've made were to do with flat out CSA between parent or sibling and a child (child told me), suspected child sex trafficking, and parents doing drugs with their young children (and by with I don't mean in the same area, I mean doing drugs while their child also does the drug). If I called because of a middle class family (not that this SHOULD have anything to do with it but in the neighborhood I live in, it does) TTC while their infant/toddler peacefully sleeps in the bed next to them, the operator would probably laugh or at least think I was an idiot.

Just because worse things happen doesn't make it right.

Several people have posted that they aren't as shocked or horrified as you are. Several people have said that while they wouldn't do it and don't really understand how a person could find that romantic, they do not find it to be sexual abuse.

Look, sexual abuse is real. I work with traumatized kids and it is absolutely heartbreaking. But you need to put things in perspective. The parent who posted on the other thread (and this one) is not a predator. She and her husband are not involving their child in their sex life. They maybe should go in the other room, but I do not find anything dangerous or predatory about what was described. People who take definitions on Wikipedia, of all places, literally in the way that many on this thread are doing minimize the dangerous actual abuse that happens to children every day.

That said, if what you're really after is to sit around and pat yourself on the back about what a perfect virtuous person you are, and how other people's sliding scale of evil is beneath you, that's entirely up to you. I don't think it does anything for child abuse victims, though.

I just want to point out that there are at least two people posting here (myself and this PP) who seem to work in the field of child abuse/traumatized children. I am the one who posted about the last dozen calls I've made and said the operator would laugh at me if I called about a couple TTC in the same bed as their sleeping infant.

I'm pointing this out because we both seem to agree that this is not considered abuse. The fact that some of you feel "icky" about this is understandable, maybe you just don't understand what ABUSE means, you grew up with a relatively privileged mentality (as I did) and never really experienced abuse. However, I know what abuse is and what it is not. When it comes to CPS and the law, this is not abuse and would not be investigated. Alternately, I wonder if some of the people here who believe it is abuse have been sexually abused/assaulted themselves...seriously not trying to cross the line here, I'm just trying to figure out what's going on...and are hypersensitive when it comes to CSA. Please do not take offense to my post if this is the case.

I'm the other mandated reporter PP and I agree with this, though I don't know that I'd assume that someone is a victim of abuse because they find this situation problematic. I think that people have a lot of weird issues with various aspects of parenting and sexuality. Cosleeping seems to provoke a particular form of ire from this thread to threads where people are confused about how a couple who cosleeps could possibly have a sex life with a child sleeping in the same bed/room.

I work with children who live in shelters, and given the size of the rooms allotted to them and the reality that many of the kids I work with have younger siblings, I would not be surprised to learn that their moms had sex in the same room as the kids. I would not include that experience in anything other than a totally exhaustive list of the traumas my kids have experienced, though. There are much bigger, sadder fish to fry on that front.

I suppose depending on how things were described when reported, it might warrant a spin through the database to see if there are any other red flags, but this in an of itself would almost certainly not be problematic enough to open an investigation. I would love if PPs could keep things in perspective, but I don't suppose there's much chance of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also a mandated reporter, for the county I live in as well as the county north of where I live. I don't think either of the hotlines I call would end up taking a formal report for this. I'm not saying it's not "weird", hey I couldn't even get in the mood with my dog in the room, but that doesn't mean it's illegal.

"indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"

To the PPs who believe that having sex in the same bed/room as your child (not to mention, while the child is sleeping) qualifies as "indecent exposure of the genitals to a child"- does this mean you also believe it's CSA to walk around the home naked (even if just to walk from the bathroom to the bedroom)? or bathe with a child? I'm honestly wondering, not trying to imply anything.

"displaying pornography to a child"

Wondering, does anyone believe having live sex in front of a child constitutes "displaying porn to a child"? Again, I think I'd feel uncomfortable but I don't believe it's abuse nor do I believe the county would make a report or actively investigate this. This topic came up because of co-sleeping, correct? We're not talking about a couple who built a stage in their living room to have sex on with their kids as the audience.

What is the difference in children watching adults have sex live in front of them and watching adults have sex on TV?

I think a hotline is probably going to look at the overall situation. They might be concerned about parents in a living space so small that there are not enough sleeping areas for everyone to have a private space. They might be concerned about parents cosleeping at all. I think the hotline would be concerned about the story where a woman has incestual sex while her older children watch TV in the same room. But I don't think that they will be as concerned about a couple having sex in the same room as their child, or even the same bed as their sleeping child.

Also, for what it's worth, in order to display genitals OR pornography to a child, the child has to actually be awake. The poster who related the original story states pretty clearly that her child was asleep at the time. I've fooled around with my husband when we all shared a bed on vacation. We didn't have sex, but that was primary because it's pretty hard to get in the mood when your baby is snoring next to you. Was the making out sex abuse too, PPs?

Correct, the hotline will look at the overall situation and usually has the ability to search the database to see if the family has had any formal reports taken and/or investigated.

Keep in mind, the last dozen calls I've made were to do with flat out CSA between parent or sibling and a child (child told me), suspected child sex trafficking, and parents doing drugs with their young children (and by with I don't mean in the same area, I mean doing drugs while their child also does the drug). If I called because of a middle class family (not that this SHOULD have anything to do with it but in the neighborhood I live in, it does) TTC while their infant/toddler peacefully sleeps in the bed next to them, the operator would probably laugh or at least think I was an idiot.

Just because worse things happen doesn't make it right.

Several people have posted that they aren't as shocked or horrified as you are. Several people have said that while they wouldn't do it and don't really understand how a person could find that romantic, they do not find it to be sexual abuse.

Look, sexual abuse is real. I work with traumatized kids and it is absolutely heartbreaking. But you need to put things in perspective. The parent who posted on the other thread (and this one) is not a predator. She and her husband are not involving their child in their sex life. They maybe should go in the other room, but I do not find anything dangerous or predatory about what was described. People who take definitions on Wikipedia, of all places, literally in the way that many on this thread are doing minimize the dangerous actual abuse that happens to children every day.

That said, if what you're really after is to sit around and pat yourself on the back about what a perfect virtuous person you are, and how other people's sliding scale of evil is beneath you, that's entirely up to you. I don't think it does anything for child abuse victims, though.

I just want to point out that there are at least two people posting here (myself and this PP) who seem to work in the field of child abuse/traumatized children. I am the one who posted about the last dozen calls I've made and said the operator would laugh at me if I called about a couple TTC in the same bed as their sleeping infant.

I'm pointing this out because we both seem to agree that this is not considered abuse. The fact that some of you feel "icky" about this is understandable, maybe you just don't understand what ABUSE means, you grew up with a relatively privileged mentality (as I did) and never really experienced abuse. However, I know what abuse is and what it is not. When it comes to CPS and the law, this is not abuse and would not be investigated. Alternately, I wonder if some of the people here who believe it is abuse have been sexually abused/assaulted themselves...seriously not trying to cross the line here, I'm just trying to figure out what's going on...and are hypersensitive when it comes to CSA. Please do not take offense to my post if this is the case.

I'm really not getting the 'there are worse things, so this can't be abuse' mentality.

Are you trying to say that you work in the field of child endangerment, yet make the ENORMOUS leap to think that because someone thinks this situation constitutes abuse, they've been abused themselves?