One person wants a prenup and the other does not

[Anonymous]

OP-- putting the negotiation of the pre-nup aside, I would be really disturbed about how he views your contributions to the marriage even if you don't get divorced. He clearly views himself as being in the drivers seat and in control....which will only be exacerbated if you plan to SAH. I see him having you on a very tight leash, and you will be posting here about how to divorced when you don't have any assets, and you haven't worked for years with 2 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why marry someone who is already planning for your relationship to fail? I'm Canadian and think Americans are so weird about this, I don't know ANYONE with a prenup and my friends have money.

Prenups are not common in America. Just in certain areas.

Most Americans agree with you our Canadian friend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why marry someone who is already planning for your relationship to fail? I'm Canadian and think Americans are so weird about this, I don't know ANYONE with a prenup and my friends have money.

Prenups are not common in America. Just in certain areas.

Most Americans agree with you our Canadian friend.

PP here about the friend who broke up with her fiance because of the prenup. They were both Chinese born in China.

[Anonymous]

"OP here. He said he will support me staying home but then the percentage I get from the house, would be reduced because I'm providing. He wants to do this because statics show that helps a healthy divorce and the biggest problem with marriage and divorce, is finances. We will be going to counseling, thanks for the advice."

I'm sorry, OP, but it doesn't sound like he is capable of working as a part of a team, which IMO is one of the biggest predictors in whether a marriage will success. Love is not enough.

[Anonymous]

Just curious: what do those who advocate a more fair pre-nup feel that it should require?

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks all. I am still debating on everything and honestly, having a tough time. I can't go into too many details, as it will be a give away who I am. We are in our thirties, no previous marriages on either side. I will be contacting a lawyer but honestly, I can't afford one, at all. So I am stuck. As I said before, businesses, I don't care about. I can't run a business, and I have no desire to be a part of one. Not to mention, his business ideas don't even seem that great. As far as he saying no to a 401k or his retirement, do you all think that's fair? I will be working but taking a year off after (well, if) we get pregnant, and we hope for two kids. I have yet to start saving for retirement because I can't afford to set money aside. If I only contribute 20 percent, how would the house be split, considering that it also will always be in his name? I don't know who to talk to, lawyer, friends or family. I have none of the above. He is a nice guy and a gentleman, but very driven by money. He refuses marriage if there is no prenup. I don't want his money but at the same time, I have to protect myself and our future kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. I am still debating on everything and honestly, having a tough time. I can't go into too many details, as it will be a give away who I am. We are in our thirties, no previous marriages on either side. I will be contacting a lawyer but honestly, I can't afford one, at all. So I am stuck. As I said before, businesses, I don't care about. I can't run a business, and I have no desire to be a part of one. Not to mention, his business ideas don't even seem that great. As far as he saying no to a 401k or his retirement, do you all think that's fair? I will be working but taking a year off after (well, if) we get pregnant, and we hope for two kids. I have yet to start saving for retirement because I can't afford to set money aside. If I only contribute 20 percent, how would the house be split, considering that it also will always be in his name? I don't know who to talk to, lawyer, friends or family. I have none of the above. He is a nice guy and a gentleman, but very driven by money. He refuses marriage if there is no prenup. I don't want his money but at the same time, I have to protect myself and our future kids.

But if his businesses become his income, you should care. Pre-nups protect assets before marriage. He seems to want a post-nup too. You really need to find a pro-bono lawyer who can go toe-to-toe with him. Check law schools for clinics or something. You do need to protect yourself and any future kids.

[Anonymous]

OP, I think this man is showing you very clearly who he is, what he values, and what your life will be like.

He values money. You don't have money or bring significant money to the table, nor do you plan to in the future if you plan to stay home with kids. He doesn't not value anything else equal to how he values money.

This means he will not value you, your emotional value, what you bring to the relationship, your skills in maintaining a home or family, the childcare you provide, etc...

The values he is showing you now tell you very clearly what your life will likely be. You will be well kept, but under tight control. You will be expected to take direction, do as he says, not tax him with anything (as he brings home the money) and you will get yourself into a corner where you are entirely financially dependent on him. If you decide, in ten years, that you want a different life, you will have gotten yourself into an incredibly difficult corner.

You do all this consciously and with plenty of warning if you marry him.

It's really that simple.

You may really regret making this bargain if you do it, but it will NEVER be easier than right now to take a stand for yourself. It will only get harder, unfathomably so once kids are involved.

What would you say to your best friend if she were asking you for advice in this situation?

Today you have control over your world, your future, your financial stability, etc... The day you sign a prenup and marry this man you will, in all likelihood, lose all of those things.

Are you willing to pay that price?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think this man is showing you very clearly who he is, what he values, and what your life will be like.

He values money. You don't have money or bring significant money to the table, nor do you plan to in the future if you plan to stay home with kids. He doesn't not value anything else equal to how he values money.

This means he will not value you, your emotional value, what you bring to the relationship, your skills in maintaining a home or family, the childcare you provide, etc...

The values he is showing you now tell you very clearly what your life will likely be. You will be well kept, but under tight control. You will be expected to take direction, do as he says, not tax him with anything (as he brings home the money) and you will get yourself into a corner where you are entirely financially dependent on him. If you decide, in ten years, that you want a different life, you will have gotten yourself into an incredibly difficult corner.

You do all this consciously and with plenty of warning if you marry him.

It's really that simple.

You may really regret making this bargain if you do it, but it will NEVER be easier than right now to take a stand for yourself. It will only get harder, unfathomably so once kids are involved.

What would you say to your best friend if she were asking you for advice in this situation?

Today you have control over your world, your future, your financial stability, etc... The day you sign a prenup and marry this man you will, in all likelihood, lose all of those things.

Are you willing to pay that price?

My sister is married to an a-hole like this and it is a constant battle.

[Anonymous]

I am "pro" pre-nup and even I think that the terms are over the top.

I am all for doing things for love, but this guy has control issues. You need to STRONGLY reconsider this whole thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think this man is showing you very clearly who he is, what he values, and what your life will be like.

He values money. You don't have money or bring significant money to the table, nor do you plan to in the future if you plan to stay home with kids. He doesn't not value anything else equal to how he values money.

This means he will not value you, your emotional value, what you bring to the relationship, your skills in maintaining a home or family, the childcare you provide, etc...

The values he is showing you now tell you very clearly what your life will likely be. You will be well kept, but under tight control. You will be expected to take direction, do as he says, not tax him with anything (as he brings home the money) and you will get yourself into a corner where you are entirely financially dependent on him. If you decide, in ten years, that you want a different life, you will have gotten yourself into an incredibly difficult corner.

You do all this consciously and with plenty of warning if you marry him.

It's really that simple.

You may really regret making this bargain if you do it, but it will NEVER be easier than right now to take a stand for yourself. It will only get harder, unfathomably so once kids are involved.

What would you say to your best friend if she were asking you for advice in this situation?

Today you have control over your world, your future, your financial stability, etc... The day you sign a prenup and marry this man you will, in all likelihood, lose all of those things.

Are you willing to pay that price?

My sister is married to an a-hole like this and it is a constant battle.

Mine is too and I can't agree more strongly with what this PP said. Very well said and all very true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No businesses owned. He makes more money than I. Any businesses that he creates in the marriage, he wants. No alimony. If I contribute, say 20 percent towards house bills, then in a divorce, that's what I get towards the house.

RUN. So he contributes 5 minutes to the making of your kids. Does that mean he will owe 5 minutes of child care? RUN RUN RUN. If he is really only concerned about having HIS name on a business, then you should talk to a lawyer and make sure that you are both protected from the business. When you marry, the money becomes OURS. There is NO "his" and "hers" otherwise you are destined for divorce. He doesn't sound like he's ready to commit. DO NOT marry him.

I had more money than my DH (15 G) and he had some debt. He had furniture, I had pretty much nothing. I never insisted on a prenup, neither did he. I would be wary of someone who insisted on a prenup and would never marry him. But it's your life. He sounds pretty unreasonable and a prenup is NOT in your best interest.

[Anonymous]

"OP here. Thanks all. I am still debating on everything and honestly, having a tough time. I can't go into too many details, as it will be a give away who I am. We are in our thirties, no previous marriages on either side. I will be contacting a lawyer but honestly, I can't afford one, at all. So I am stuck. As I said before, businesses, I don't care about. I can't run a business, and I have no desire to be a part of one. Not to mention, his business ideas don't even seem that great. As far as he saying no to a 401k or his retirement, do you all think that's fair? I will be working but taking a year off after (well, if) we get pregnant, and we hope for two kids. I have yet to start saving for retirement because I can't afford to set money aside. If I only contribute 20 percent, how would the house be split, considering that it also will always be in his name? I don't know who to talk to, lawyer, friends or family. I have none of the above. He is a nice guy and a gentleman, but very driven by money. He refuses marriage if there is no prenup. I don't want his money but at the same time, I have to protect myself and our future kids."

You don't need a lawyer, because you shouldn't be considering a pre-nup. I'm not anti pre-nup - I'm a pragmatist and see their use in some situations. But if you sign one with this guy, you would just be enabling what is a dysfunctional way for him to deal with whatever issues he has with money and control. Because this clearly is not about him protecting assets; it's about some underlying emotional issue he has. And unless you get to the root of it before your marriage, and see if it can be resolved before your marriage, you will be signing up for a miserable life. So find a therapist, pastor, or trusted older-coworker, and figure out why you're in this relationship and why you consider this very dysfunctional way of thinking to be normal behavior.

[Anonymous]

If I couldn't change his mind towards a more equitable agreement, then I'd rethink the marriage.

[Anonymous]

PP makes a good point. Debt collector are not concerned with family court issues nor are they bound by them. So if he incurs all kinds of debt, businesses can go after your marital assets, pre-nups be damned.