One person wants a prenup and the other does not

[Anonymous]

This jumped out at me:

You cannot afford your own lawyer. He doesn't care enough about fairness and your well-being to pay for one for you, even though he could. He is happy enough to take advantage of the fact that you can't afford a lawyer.

He is showing you who he is. Believe him.

If you had good legal advice, I'd say see what your lawyer says and choose if you want to live with whatever you can negotiate. But if you can't even get a lawyer and he won't pay for one to negotiate on your behalf for the prenup HE wants? Fuck that shit. He is not playing fair. Don't tie yourself to someone with no sense of basic fairness.

[Anonymous]

I think OP is considering marrying him because she is in her 30's and can hear her biological clock ticking. Totally understandable. However, I think she is better off going to a sperm bank and being a single mother than marrying this guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. I am still debating on everything and honestly, having a tough time. I can't go into too many details, as it will be a give away who I am. We are in our thirties, no previous marriages on either side. I will be contacting a lawyer but honestly, I can't afford one, at all. So I am stuck. As I said before, businesses, I don't care about. I can't run a business, and I have no desire to be a part of one. Not to mention, his business ideas don't even seem that great. As far as he saying no to a 401k or his retirement, do you all think that's fair? I will be working but taking a year off after (well, if) we get pregnant, and we hope for two kids. I have yet to start saving for retirement because I can't afford to set money aside. If I only contribute 20 percent, how would the house be split, considering that it also will always be in his name? I don't know who to talk to, lawyer, friends or family. I have none of the above. He is a nice guy and a gentleman, but very driven by money. He refuses marriage if there is no prenup. I don't want his money but at the same time, I have to protect myself and our future kids.

OP, you don't have any friends or family? In the context of your original questions this is a red flag.
Please look at page 8 of this brochure and ask yourself if your fiance has the warning signs of an abuser.
http://bitly.com/Nenzm4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think OP is considering marrying him because she is in her 30's and can hear her biological clock ticking. Totally understandable. However, I think she is better off going to a sperm bank and being a single mother than marrying this guy.

I tried to give balanced advice before, but really, I basically agree with this completely. I really like the advice from people about how he is showing you who he is and what is important to him (money, not you).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No businesses owned. He makes more money than I. Any businesses that he creates in the marriage, he wants. No alimony. If I contribute, say 20 percent towards house bills, then in a divorce, that's what I get towards the house.

Dump his sorry ass

I agree. He sounds like an asshole.

[Anonymous]

OP--people on DCUM are often snarky and unkind on this anonymous forum. In this case, everyone is in agreement and giving you good advice. You need to listen to the wisdom of DCUM who have BTDT.

Don't let yourself get put into this position. Search for some threads about awesome husbands and ex husbands. Those men do exist. You don't have to settle for this. You're worth more than what he is offering, even if you bank balance is less than his.

[Anonymous]

What about this OP - ask him if you can speak to his attorney who drafted this godforsaken slanted pre-nup and ask point by point some of the things presented here? So for example, "what would happen if I contribute in non-financial ways toward the success of any future business, how is this clause to be interpreted? What would happen if he goes into debt on this business or gets sued, am I personally protected? (the answer is no by the way, but still ask). Go piece by piece through it and ask his own damn lawyer what their thoughts are and just make changes yourself as you see fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about this OP - ask him if you can speak to his attorney who drafted this godforsaken slanted pre-nup and ask point by point some of the things presented here? So for example, "what would happen if I contribute in non-financial ways toward the success of any future business, how is this clause to be interpreted? What would happen if he goes into debt on this business or gets sued, am I personally protected? (the answer is no by the way, but still ask). Go piece by piece through it and ask his own damn lawyer what their thoughts are and just make changes yourself as you see fit.

P.S. I agree that he sounds like a tool, but in the off chance that he honestly thinks this is the right thing to do and you can actually come to an agreement without selling your soul, I thought I'd throw that out there. But I agree this sounds like a deal breaker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about this OP - ask him if you can speak to his attorney who drafted this godforsaken slanted pre-nup and ask point by point some of the things presented here? So for example, "what would happen if I contribute in non-financial ways toward the success of any future business, how is this clause to be interpreted? What would happen if he goes into debt on this business or gets sued, am I personally protected? (the answer is no by the way, but still ask). Go piece by piece through it and ask his own damn lawyer what their thoughts are and just make changes yourself as you see fit.

Not ethical on the part of the attorney. An attorney represents a client. Period. He/she has a duty of zealous representation to that client. He/she cannot tell the other side "what their thoughts are" for guidance. An attorney has to zealous in protecting a client's rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about this OP - ask him if you can speak to his attorney who drafted this godforsaken slanted pre-nup and ask point by point some of the things presented here? So for example, "what would happen if I contribute in non-financial ways toward the success of any future business, how is this clause to be interpreted? What would happen if he goes into debt on this business or gets sued, am I personally protected? (the answer is no by the way, but still ask). Go piece by piece through it and ask his own damn lawyer what their thoughts are and just make changes yourself as you see fit.

Not ethical on the part of the attorney. An attorney represents a client. Period. He/she has a duty of zealous representation to that client. He/she cannot tell the other side "what their thoughts are" for guidance. An attorney has to zealous in protecting a client's rights.

Yeah, I guess I was coming at it from more of a negotiating tactic where OP would basically be representing herself? How would she even counter some of this stuff if the attorney can't talk to her and she can't afford an attorney?

[Anonymous]

I suspect the finace wrote the pre-nup without consulting a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No businesses owned. He makes more money than I. Any businesses that he creates in the marriage, he wants. No alimony. If I contribute, say 20 percent towards house bills, then in a divorce, that's what I get towards the house.

Are you serious that you want to marry someone who would treat you this way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. I am still debating on everything and honestly, having a tough time. I can't go into too many details, as it will be a give away who I am. We are in our thirties, no previous marriages on either side. I will be contacting a lawyer but honestly, I can't afford one, at all. So I am stuck. As I said before, businesses, I don't care about. I can't run a business, and I have no desire to be a part of one. Not to mention, his business ideas don't even seem that great. As far as he saying no to a 401k or his retirement, do you all think that's fair? I will be working but taking a year off after (well, if) we get pregnant, and we hope for two kids. I have yet to start saving for retirement because I can't afford to set money aside. If I only contribute 20 percent, how would the house be split, considering that it also will always be in his name? I don't know who to talk to, lawyer, friends or family. I have none of the above. He is a nice guy and a gentleman, but very driven by money. He refuses marriage if there is no prenup. I don't want his money but at the same time, I have to protect myself and our future kids.

If he is devoting time to a business and you are taking care of his home and his kids while he does that, you ARE part of his business and you ARE entitled to some of the proceeds in the event of divorce.

He is neither a nice guy, nor a gentleman. A nice guy would not try to screw you like this and would not prioritize money over his relationship. A gentleman would not leave you to your own devices to find a lawyer to deal with his one-sided prenup, knowing all the while that you do not have resources for a lawyer.

When someone shows you who he is, BELIEVE HIM.

Walk away.

[Anonymous]

Joining the chorus of those who think you should walk away now. (and I get it—I was single at 36, after leaving the guy I thought I’d marry—but I’m now 43 with 2 kids and a good husband).

Prenup makes sense when one or both parties come in with substantial assets. Prenup is not a particularly great way of devising how you are going to handle finances once married, generally.

Your fiancé comes across as selfish and controlling too—the idea that if he runs a successful business, you get no part of it reflects a belief that whatever success he achieves is solely his own, and that having a supportive partner with whom to share a life plays no role! And I don’t just mean a SAH parent whose labor is unpaid. Both partners in a marriage should be supporting each other in their personal and professional lives: providing emotional support , a stable home, putting up with long hours, child rearing, entertaining, etc. The idea of a shared division of marital assets reflects the view that the household itself is the generator of income and assets and that both partners contribute in various ways to the success and stability of the family. In your case, your fiancé appears to view you not as an equal partner in the adventure of marriage and family but as a lower contributing burden—an employee who should only get reimbursed for the hours on the clock, as it were. What is in the prenup about healthcare and insurance? Is he going to charge you to be on his plan? What about your unpaid labor if you stay home to raise kids?

Also- If you cannot even afford a lawyer and he does not care enough about good feeling and fairness between you to pay for one for you, then he is viewing this as a business transaction in which he gets the upper hand—this is NOT something a loving partner would do!


My last thought is this: you cannot afford to marry this man. By which I mean, you do not have the financial wherewithal to enter into this unfair arrangement. Even if you stay married, he will be controlling the purse strings—if you cannot share in any of the accumulated wealth, that limits your options. Secondly, if you WANT to leave but have signed this unfair agreement, you may find yourself completely stuck in an unhappy marriage because you yourself have no assets, savings, retirement, etc. Thirdly, if you do leave, but are in ruined financial straights, what kind of life can you rebuild?

A good man does not look for thirty ways to screw over his partner in marriage. I can totally understand wanting to protect assets acquired before marriage—inheritance, etc. But he is proposing a marriage in which you will ALWAYS be beholden to him (unless, of course, you make your own money). Even so, I foresee huge issues around money. What if you want to send the kids to a summer camp or private school (that you can afford as a family) and he disagrees? does he make you pay for it? What about if you want to take a trip to see your family? do you pau for it or is it shared? If you already sense his issues around money, its not good. This should be the time of planning an exciting future together, not haggling. You should be able to resolve money differences respectfully and thoughtfully and I do not see that happening, particularly if he takes the tack that the higher earner gets to make the decisions.

If you do choose to continue with marriage discussions, PLEASE get a lawyer to look over the proposed prenup and come up with an alternative. You don’t need to spend 3k on a lawyer—can you budget 800.00? (And frankly, if you can’t, you shouldn’t be marrying this guy. You should be working on your career and financial freedom). If he refuses to sign a reasonable prenup that you are agreeable to, then he’s more concerned with money than with marriage. I also suggest premarital counseling to discuss these issues--not because I see much good coming out of it, but because you should really get to know how he feels and thinks about money, the future, marriage and you.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

The business thing could actually be a good thing - maybe you could write in that you're never personally liable for any business losses or something like that.

I've always planned to have a pre-nup if I ever married. I look at it as insurance. If all goes well, the prenup never goes into effect. If things go badly, I don't have to deal with losing the sh*t I've worked so hard for in addition to grieving the end of the marriage. I'd be fine signing a prenup as long as it didn't penalize me unnecessarily. You don't get married to get a payoff.