Desperate plea for help with my 4 year old DD

[Anonymous]

You know, my son often drives me crazy in similar ways, and I started wondering how daycare teachers can handle a room full of kids like that. Then I observed the teachers and came to the conclusion that the way that they handled it was by not caring whether the kids were happy or unhappy. I'm not saying that they don't like the kids, or are bad teachers, but they definitely don't care whether the kids are happy/angry/sad/tantruming about an instruction or activity. I'm trying to incorporate more of that into caring for my son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Desperate plea

sweet perfect

dream baby in every way

sleeping well

nursing well

so happy all the time

almost completely problem free

We thought we'd dodged the bullet.

took a left turn and became this miserable uncooperative being

I literally do not like being around her

She makes life completely miserable for her dad, her little sister and me

Her most common statements are "I don't want to!!" or "I hate that!"

She never wants the baby in her room for even a second and will literally slam the door in her face. She doesn't want to share anything ever, in fact doesn't even want her sister to LOOK at her sometimes.

She is completely uncooperative with: getting dressed, going to the potty when it wasn't her idea (ie: if its bedtime or we're leaving the house), getting undressed, getting in carseat, getting on sunscreen, picking up toys, coming to the meal table.

She has moments of seeming good moods where she is sweet to us and her sister, but they are short-lived and certainly on her terms.

The whole family walks on eggshells constantly.

There is no such thing as a good day - a good couple hours maybe, but never a whole day.

Every day brings angry yelling fits AND inconsolable crying meltdowns.

She just cannot cope with the daily tasks of life or any sort of disappointment whatsoever.

Despite all of this, she is a sweet child who is an angel at school and around most other people (except her closest relatives like my mom and my sister). She has lots of friends and lots of fun...just not with her immediate family.

I am miserable every single morning when I wake up.

Its affecting my marriage and my relationship with both of my children.

I'm concerned about my younger child, and also TERRIFIED that whatever this is going to "stick" with my older child and she will never be truly happy and as a result will make us all miserable forever.

I know that sounds super doom and gloom, but its the kind of stuff that runs through my head when I can't fall asleep at night.

Sorry for the novel...I'm just so desperate and don't know where to turn!

OP, I'm going to say this gently but I think the problem is with you. It may be anxiety or depression or maybe a personality disorder but you need to get help. You seem to need to see things in black or white, I've bolded some of the parts where you put her on a pedestal. There is only one direction from there.

Your language is very dramatic about very common behavior for a preschooler. Your expectations are out of line of normal child development. The fact that she only acts with way with her family or yours is telling. I don't think you learned healthy parenting growing up and it's wonderful that you do now. You need to be less focused on what is wrong with DD and more on making her feel loved and valued and normal. You mention a sister, are you the older sister? Sometimes we tend to project stuff onto the child who has the same gender/birth order. Do you SAH? I would go to a psychiatrist and get treated for possible depression or anxiety. Then work with a therapist on yourself and with a parenting expert to better learn how to cope with DD. Will she be in school full time in the fall? It sounds like you need some distance and a break. In a sense you have made her in charge of your moods and feelings and that isn't healthy for anyone. She is just a little girl. Get help for you first and then work on a healthy life balance. I was in a similar place a few years ago and when you sort yourself out the parenting problems shrink amazingly. Reach out to DH too. Family therapy can be very helpful but you need to be in a better place emotionally and you sound "desperate". I have always been very reactive to the moods of others and my negative persistant DD felt very threatening to me for want of a better word. Treatment for depression and anxiety and way better life balance helped me a lot. DD may be prone to the same challenges but I'm committed to modeling the healthiest behavior I can.

[Anonymous]

Also something that is really hard to think about but is unfortunately necessary to consider is the possibility of abuse. I would ask her if anyone has asked her to keep a secret / not tell mommy or if anyone has hurt her or if there is any adults she doesn't like being alone /spending time with? I wouldn't ask directly about sexual abuse/private parts but more generally in a natural, informal conversation. I am not suggesting there is any kind of abuse happening but it is important to consider it as it can also cause this type of behavior.

[Anonymous]

OP,

Every kid goes through a phase like this. You just happened to hit it or notice it at 4. People complain about the terrible twos, but in my mind 3 is much worse. Some kids hit that difficult period before 3 and some after. It lasts roughly a year. If you really are consistently disciplining, it will be over in a year. If you aren't she will be like this the rest of her life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Every kid goes through a phase like this. You just happened to hit it or notice it at 4. People complain about the terrible twos, but in my mind 3 is much worse. Some kids hit that difficult period before 3 and some after. It lasts roughly a year. If you really are consistently disciplining, it will be over in a year. If you aren't she will be like this the rest of her life.

None of my kids went through a phase like OP describes. Did they have some of those behaviors here and there - yes but all of those behaviors all of the time - absolutely not. And 4+ is getting old for acting like an out of control 2-3 yr old for months, even if you do think that behavior is typical.

[Anonymous]

OP, you need to shift your focus off of her. Make sure that there are good times every day with you and younger DD and you by yourself and you and DH and you and older DD. She cannot ruin "whole" days, that is you projecting onto it and awfulizing what is pretty typical behavior. She feels that you don't like her and are only seeing her in a bd light. Kids want to feel positive and don't like having that kind of power. You need to disengage like 80% with her and reengage in a happy way with your own life and the other members of your family. What if she went to stay with a relative for a week or so to kind of break the tension?

[Anonymous]

18:34 I think the perceptions of the OP are driving a lot of this, DD was perfect now she has destroyed everyone's life.

OP, she is 4, it would not be normal if she was happy and cooperative for entire days. That is not her developmental task right now.

If she's great for everyone else and you talk about her in this florid and extreme way I think the solution is therapy for you and family therapy for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:also - have you looked at her diet? I have a friend who removed food dyes from diet and it made a HUGE difference in behavior. (I do not know why -but Red is the big one which is in Jelly, some cereals, jello etc.)

Second this. I don't know why, but I read your post, and I immediately thought "diet."

Other than that, I just want to say hang in there, OP. It sounds like you are truly doing your best with a very difficult situation. This must be so freaking difficult. :hugs:

Other than red dye, what should I avoid?

Read about the Feinhold diet. We did this diet and now have maintained the things that really affect him badly.

Take a deep breath. General Parenting may not be the best forum for this discussion. The special needs forum have parents that hae BTDT.

I could have written your post when my son was 3. then 4 then 5 then ...

I did not get a real good diagnosis until he was about 9. There were so many things going on.

Diet, discipline (not the kind other parents do - the kind that is good for him), tutors, therapists. It sounds like so much but it really becomes managable after you sort of figure it out.

First I would find a famliy therapist for you and your husband to discuss the issues and come up with a plan. My therapist really did not see kids this young so for years it was just us and the therapist.

My son ended up seeing a therapist for about 6 months when he was 9ish which was a great experience in his personal growth.

You have a whole lot of stuff going on and your daughter is basically telling you - hey something is not right.

A doctor from Johns Hopkins told me to keep asking questions until I felt like I had a story that fit my son. We have the story and now can act accordingly.

Stay strong!

This sounds like good advice to me. Not all children are the same, so what works for your friends' kids or "general" parenting advice might not work for your DD. Also, 9.5 hours of sleep is not a lot of a 4 year old. I have kids who don't sleep a lot, stopped napping at 2, etc., but my 4.5 year old still gets 10.5 hours of sleep. I think going back to a nap would be hard, but can you try getting her to bed earlier?

[Anonymous]

What time does she go to sleep?

Dyes are in lots of foods, candies, popsicles, cereal. My kid ate the pink mini wheats (blue and red dye) and was a lunatic.

Is your child like this only at your house? If you go to the park with her, how is she there? How is she with neighbors, or DH's family?

[Anonymous]

OP, I just started Feingold with my DS (also 4) and, through a sleep specialist, found out that he is severly anemic. We have less explosive behavior problems but have horrible sleep issues and hyperactivity. I took him to Childrens and they diagnosed him with some sleep issues caused by low iron. I had already started Feingold a few weeks earlier but the iron test made me realize that I didn't pay enough attention to his diet at all. We've now switched to organic and I watch what he eats pretty carefully. He is also just started iron and vitamin supplments and I feel like there is already mild improvement. I really might suggest looking at diet carefully as other PPs have suggested. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I just started Feingold with my DS (also 4) and, through a sleep specialist, found out that he is severly anemic. We have less explosive behavior problems but have horrible sleep issues and hyperactivity. I took him to Childrens and they diagnosed him with some sleep issues caused by low iron. I had already started Feingold a few weeks earlier but the iron test made me realize that I didn't pay enough attention to his diet at all. We've now switched to organic and I watch what he eats pretty carefully. He is also just started iron and vitamin supplments and I feel like there is already mild improvement. I really might suggest looking at diet carefully as other PPs have suggested. Good luck!

Ok, if diet is the problem, how come the kid is well-behaved around other adults and children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Every kid goes through a phase like this. You just happened to hit it or notice it at 4. People complain about the terrible twos, but in my mind 3 is much worse. Some kids hit that difficult period before 3 and some after. It lasts roughly a year. If you really are consistently disciplining, it will be over in a year. If you aren't she will be like this the rest of her life.

Bull! Mine never acted like this and 99% of kids wh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Every kid goes through a phase like this. You just happened to hit it or notice it at 4. People complain about the terrible twos, but in my mind 3 is much worse. Some kids hit that difficult period before 3 and some after. It lasts roughly a year. If you really are consistently disciplining, it will be over in a year. If you aren't she will be like this the rest of her life.

Bull! Mine never acted like this and 99% of kids wh

who act like This at her age are spoiled brays. She needs discipline or OP is going to Labrador problems with this kid.

[Anonymous]

OP,
Something you haven't tried. Spend 30 min a day with her one on one and have DH do the same. Spend the time doing whatever she wants, walk, park, Barbies, just fill her up with your engaged undivided attention. Keep all other comments positive, physically address safety issues, by holding a hand rather than talking, picking her up if she is likely to resist, etc. I'm guessing that by the end of the summer if you change that reactive dynamic and see a psychiatrist yourself (you sound anxious and depressed) that your child will be much easier to get along with. She wants your love and to see herself reflected in a positive way. Right now she gets a ton of power and attention for acting out. You need to get ahead of the curve. It might also help to repeat affirmations to yourself - DD (her name) is so funny, or whatever is true. Say to yourself, "I am so lucky to have [name] in my life, today I will show her love and patience". "Eh, she's just a kid." Try to get her to sleep earlier, use melatonin if your ped approves, TJ's has a chewable low dose tablet.

Finally, get out alone with your husband at least once a week, this dynamic has taken a toll on all of you. Have at least a few nights where you relax when the kids are in bed and read fun books, pursue a hobby, exercise, whatever you enjoy.

If DD is not in camp it might be worth finding one and doing a mom yoga class or stroller strides or something with younger DD while she is there. Exercise and the company of other moms saved my sanity.

[Anonymous]

OP, not all things work for all kids. She seems like she might be a bit controlling and have difficulty with transitions, she might do well with a lot of structure. For my kid, anxiety was the underlying issue.

I found the book "The Difficult Child" very helpful. I has you keep a log and it helped us identify the problem spots and plan for them.

One thing that I don't see in your post is really empathizing with your DD. Have you looked at "The Happiest Toddler on the Block"? It goes through age 4. For my kid, "not engaging" just made her need to try harder to draw us in so that she would feel understood. If we could empathize, and the book is great for this, and she felt heard, then she was much more chilled out. Eventually they start using words for their feelings rather than just acting them out but you have to model it and it takes years.

I'd also tell her that her room is off limits to the little one but that she has to be safe and not hurt her. Put up a gate or something. My kiddo needed her own place to decompress and couldn't share all her treasures and risk having them broken.

Were you the youngest by any chance?

Good luck!