Desperate plea for help with my 4 year old DD

[Anonymous]

OP, your child is perfectly normal.

Your problem is a total lack of parental confidence. And if you are not confident as a parent, your child will sense it and try to exploit it. This is only natural - when you are hesitant your child correctly infers that she can influence your decisions. Your daughter has excellent people skills, as she can adapt and be cooperative when she needs to and uncooprative when she doesn't. You, on the other hand, are a pushover (as a parent).

You are reading too many books, considering too many theories and asking for help a way too often. What you are doing now is asking for more and more theories, and more books, and more experts and more advice. All that just confuses and compounds your problem - you are not sure what to think, which advice to follow, whom to trust. All that is way worse than doing things "wrong".

[Anonymous]

gluten and dairy are also common problems. I suggest going to see Kelly Dorfan as she is local

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:gluten and dairy are also common problems. I suggest going to see Kelly Dorfan as she is local

Again - if diet is the problem then how is it possible that the child behaves appropriately with other people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think her behavior can be because she felt threatened by her younger sister. My DD was super sweet to her baby brother before he started crawling and getting into her things when he was about 9 months. There onwards, we went through a period of hell with a very uncooperative 3 years old DD. She would say no to everything, so much that DH was calling her "Miss No No!" All the while she was the perfect student in school with a sweet smile. Things get worst when DS started walking and running and ruining her toys, her books and taking her parents’ time away from her. It has only gotten better when they started to play together. I think one to one time with her is very important right now, so that she become the only child again. I remembered DD told me that, "Mama, I am still a baby too!!" when I was cuddling with baby DS. Now DD and DS are inseparable. DD will miss DS when he is napping, and when DS woke up from his nap if he didn't see DD, he will ask for her. Very sweet. They still fight, but it is clear that they love each other and depends on each other. DD is 6 and DS is almost 4. Hang in there.

Tricks that may be helpful right now:
1. reasoning -- explain why you ask her to do thing (you need to eat or you will be hungry and you will feel terrible; you need to wash your hands because they are full of germs that can get you sick)
2. respect -- try to see things from her point of view and understand why she is upset. Show empathy.
3. hugs and kisses -- when you are very angry, instead of yelling, force yourself to hug and kiss her, both of you will be surprised by the effect of that and may change the mood all together.
4. warnings -- always announce what is coming and what do you expect DD to do before hand (e.g. when we get back into the house, please take off your shoes, wash your hands and then sit down at the table for lunch)

I hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The fact that she functions perfectly well outside of home - where she cannot do what she pleases - should be your most important clue. There is nothing wrong with her, you are just giving her too much control. You think you don't because you follow book, but the examples of what you allow her to do (e.g. slap door) speak for themselves. Also, bad behaviors need to be punished, not ignored.

I don't agree with this - my kids used all their energy to behave with teachers/grandparents and then let loose on us.

Question: besides the new baby, any other huge changes going on in her life?

Reason I ask is my children who are 4 and 7 have been going through this since we moved. They use all their energy to get through the new school, finding new friends, missing their old routine that when they are with us they "relax" and let loose. We didn't do a very good job at handling the violent melt-downs at first. We punished and made charts and walked on eggshells and were miserable. They were in such a crazied state punishments were ridiculous. We could tell them they weren't going to watch tv for a year and they could care less in the moment.

Couple things that helped us get through this phase:
- Did our best to avoid the triggers. Children were well-fed and we moved their bedtime from 8:30 to 7:30. Hunger, sugar highs/lows and not enough sleep made the situation worse.
- We reduced activities so we were just home as a family more. It was just too much activity and stimulation. They needed to chill. If she is in daycare that should be the only outside activity until she stabilizes.
- Try to reduce the chance to fight. My kids were looking for a chance to fight to get that release and attention. You have to kind of stop talking about everything. For example, rather than talk incessantly about bedtime routine which I would do because i was nervous about the inevitable fight ("5 minutes until bedtime", "bathtime is fun - let's bathe!", "which pjs do you want red or blue?" "is your dolly tired too?" and on and on) I'd just say "okay, I'm going up to get ready for bed, come on up when you're ready" and I'd head up like 20 minutes before so there was time for pokiness.
- When they really f-up, like slamming the door in the baby's face, we would put them in time-out and they'd start to throw a fit. They'd do anything to get us engaged - screaming/biting/spitting (?!) - and we'd oblige by yelling, threatening, punishing back. Sometimes the only way it would end is by the child falling asleep. One day when it started I just told my son, I'm going to hold you close until everyone can calm down and we can talk. I'd have to hold him in a pretty tight hug (with again no talking) for a long time until he cried and just released that frustration. Without even being asked he would go apologize for his behavior and we'd discuss a punishment.

We're (almost) done with these - were happening every day with one of them - and it's pretty much under control now.

I will say the MOST stressful part was the tension it added to my marriage. If we hadn't got the fits under control, I would have suggested to my husband that we see a counselor together because we would always end up yelling at each other.

OP, I wish you the best of luck and hope you find some PEACE!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that she functions perfectly well outside of home - where she cannot do what she pleases - should be your most important clue. There is nothing wrong with her, you are just giving her too much control. You think you don't because you follow book, but the examples of what you allow her to do (e.g. slap door) speak for themselves. Also, bad behaviors need to be punished, not ignored.

I don't agree with this - my kids used all their energy to behave with teachers/grandparents and then let loose on us.

Question: besides the new baby, any other huge changes going on in her life?

Reason I ask is my children who are 4 and 7 have been going through this since we moved. They use all their energy to get through the new school, finding new friends, missing their old routine that when they are with us they "relax" and let loose. We didn't do a very good job at handling the violent melt-downs at first. We punished and made charts and walked on eggshells and were miserable. They were in such a crazied state punishments were ridiculous. We could tell them they weren't going to watch tv for a year and they could care less in the moment.

Couple things that helped us get through this phase:
- Did our best to avoid the triggers. Children were well-fed and we moved their bedtime from 8:30 to 7:30. Hunger, sugar highs/lows and not enough sleep made the situation worse.
- We reduced activities so we were just home as a family more. It was just too much activity and stimulation. They needed to chill. If she is in daycare that should be the only outside activity until she stabilizes.
- Try to reduce the chance to fight. My kids were looking for a chance to fight to get that release and attention. You have to kind of stop talking about everything. For example, rather than talk incessantly about bedtime routine which I would do because i was nervous about the inevitable fight ("5 minutes until bedtime", "bathtime is fun - let's bathe!", "which pjs do you want red or blue?" "is your dolly tired too?" and on and on) I'd just say "okay, I'm going up to get ready for bed, come on up when you're ready" and I'd head up like 20 minutes before so there was time for pokiness.
- When they really f-up, like slamming the door in the baby's face, we would put them in time-out and they'd start to throw a fit. They'd do anything to get us engaged - screaming/biting/spitting (?!) - and we'd oblige by yelling, threatening, punishing back. Sometimes the only way it would end is by the child falling asleep. One day when it started I just told my son, I'm going to hold you close until everyone can calm down and we can talk. I'd have to hold him in a pretty tight hug (with again no talking) for a long time until he cried and just released that frustration. Without even being asked he would go apologize for his behavior and we'd discuss a punishment.

We're (almost) done with these - were happening every day with one of them - and it's pretty much under control now.

I will say the MOST stressful part was the tension it added to my marriage. If we hadn't got the fits under control, I would have suggested to my husband that we see a counselor together because we would always end up yelling at each other.

OP, I wish you the best of luck and hope you find some PEACE!

There is no such thing as "using all their energy to behave". There is no need to be bad that needs to be expressed somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Not advertised anywhere but Dr. Rene Hackney does in home or school observations with feedback as well.

[Anonymous]

Another item w dyes are children's yogurts

[Anonymous]

Have you tried -cutting way back on sugar to avoid sugar lows. Have you tried lots of running around at park to tire her out followed by hearty lunch to get a nap in? Have you tried hugging her when she gets really bent out of shape and making sure she has some kind of 'lovey' to hold instead of correcting her and then seeing if that helps. The latter is especially counter intuitive. But I have a strong wIlled daughter and that is sometimes necessary to break the cycle. The reason I knew to try this is because I can still remember battle of wills with my mom when I was young and that is what I needed. It is probably a combination of things and that may be why it is hard to get a handle on this. She wants the individual attention from you AND not have to share her toys AND is tired because no nap, etc So not addressing each cause will not solve the problem.

[Anonymous]

I could have written your post, OP. I would love to email you (a virtual support partner?) if you are willing to post an email address.

[Anonymous]

Personally I'd give her a light tap on the. It and put her in immediate time out. Who makes the rules? She's a brat and thinks she's in charge.

[Anonymous]

*tap on the butt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I just started Feingold with my DS (also 4) and, through a sleep specialist, found out that he is severly anemic. We have less explosive behavior problems but have horrible sleep issues and hyperactivity. I took him to Childrens and they diagnosed him with some sleep issues caused by low iron. I had already started Feingold a few weeks earlier but the iron test made me realize that I didn't pay enough attention to his diet at all. We've now switched to organic and I watch what he eats pretty carefully. He is also just started iron and vitamin supplments and I feel like there is already mild improvement. I really might suggest looking at diet carefully as other PPs have suggested. Good luck!

Ok, if diet is the problem, how come the kid is well-behaved around other adults and children?

PP here - have you ever been tired at work or grumpy about something and done your best to hold it together while at work or with a friend? But then when you get home or around family you start to unravel and let it all out? I think it's natural for people to try to behave for teachers/friends etc but then show their truer colors at home. I also think OP said she has meltdowns outside the home too (elevators). I'm not a therapist, but in my experience with what sounds like a very similar 4 yr old, there are diet and sleep issues going on that are making his behavior worse. These are such easy things to look at, it seems strange to me that people would consider all kinds of therapy, books, and discipline without first just checking out how healthy the child is. It might not be the answer in this case (or maybe not the total answer) but it is at least one puzzle piece worth looking at.

[Anonymous]

Family physician here (and mom of 3 under the age of 5 yrs). She is sleep deprived. Falling asleep in the car after 10-15 mins is a sure sign. 4 yr olds need 11-13hrs of sleep. Start putting her to bed earlier or reinstating naptime. This will be difficult, but totally doable. Her behavior change will be miraculous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Family physician here (and mom of 3 under the age of 5 yrs). She is sleep deprived. Falling asleep in the car after 10-15 mins is a sure sign. 4 yr olds need 11-13hrs of sleep. Start putting her to bed earlier or reinstating naptime. This will be difficult, but totally doable. Her behavior change will be miraculous

Competely agree with this one!