Desperate plea for help with my 4 year old DD
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Anonymous
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I have the exact same issues with my 4 year old as the OP. Down to the massive tantrums over not getting to push the elveator button. To the poster at 11:25, thank you!! Your post is perhaps the most helpful, kind and understanding post I have ever seen on DCUM. Until someone is in your shoes they will never understand the struggles you are going through and all the effort you put into trying to work on the issues. You point about discipline that works for your child is spot on. Timeouts, consequences, etc don’t work for this type of child. We are still searching for what works, but for now letting our child scream and cry until calm is the best apporach for us (even if the tantrum is 30 minutes+).
Op: you may want to consider at OT evaluation. Having someone give us a dignosis has been a good first step to working on our issues. |
Anonymous
| PP Here: to 11:25 do you mind telling us what the evaluation for your child and/or diagnosis is. I'm generally curious and would love to get my child the help he needs. He is currently in OT, PT and Speech. We have also worked with a behaviorist. For now, we have a diagnosis of a sensory processing disorder. TIA |
Anonymous
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OP, I think her behavior can be because she felt threatened by her younger sister. My DD was super sweet to her baby brother before he started crawling and getting into her things when he was about 9 months. There onwards, we went through a period of hell with a very uncooperative 3 years old DD. She would say no to everything, so much that DH was calling her "Miss No No!" All the while she was the perfect student in school with a sweet smile. Things get worst when DS started walking and running and ruining her toys, her books and taking her parents’ time away from her. It has only gotten better when they started to play together. I think one to one time with her is very important right now, so that she become the only child again. I remembered DD told me that, "Mama, I am still a baby too!!" when I was cuddling with baby DS. Now DD and DS are inseparable. DD will miss DS when he is napping, and when DS woke up from his nap if he didn't see DD, he will ask for her. Very sweet. They still fight, but it is clear that they love each other and depends on each other. DD is 6 and DS is almost 4. Hang in there.
Tricks that may be helpful right now: 1. reasoning -- explain why you ask her to do thing (you need to eat or you will be hungry and you will feel terrible; you need to wash your hands because they are full of germs that can get you sick) 2. respect -- try to see things from her point of view and understand why she is upset. Show empathy. 3. hugs and kisses -- when you are very angry, instead of yelling, force yourself to hug and kiss her, both of you will be surprised by the effect of that and may change the mood all together. 4. warnings -- always announce what is coming and what do you expect DD to do before hand (e.g. when we get back into the house, please take off your shoes, wash your hands and then sit down at the table for lunch) I hope this helps. |
Anonymous
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My 2 cents from personal experience:
1) More sleep -- have you had her adenoids and tonsils checked? If they are interfering with her breathing, she may not be getting enough quality sleep. Better sleep=better kid. 2) Feingold diet, especially eliminating all the dyes and preservatives. Shopping at Whole Foods and Trader Joe's is a start. I no longer need my Feingold materials, I wish there was a way to get them to you. 3) An in-home evaluation with a reputable behavioral specialist. Your ability to be objective is probably gone at this point and it might really help to have someone have YOUR back and let you know how to help your whole family. Ideally someone that visits your home on a weekly basis to get you back on track. I think you sound like an awesome, caring, thoughtful mom. I wish you the best. *hugs* |
Anonymous
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Hi OP, I agree with the suggestion to cross post this on SN.
Some children are beyond "general parenting", I know, I have one  .
I think it is GREAT that your daughter can keep herself together out in the real world. Something is going on with her that is not right and is beyond the norm. Sleep: Have you had her iron checked recently? My nephew had low iron levels that led to poor sleep quality (they had a sleep study done). An iron supplement increased his iron stores and he started sleeping much better. Low iron can look like ADHD/poor impulse control, and it is a simple blood test your ped can do. Anything below 50 "serum ferritin" can cause sleep disturbance. You could also try a low dose of melatonin to improve her sleep onset. TJ's makes a chewable dose. |
Anonymous
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1. Remove wheat, dairy and all grains from her diet.
2. A discipline trick I call stop, pause and redirect. If you pitch a fit, you often get out of things. This doesn't, but you HAVE to follow through. Better to ignore something than give up halfway through. So: suzy slams a door. You stop right there and she sits down. And sits until she is quiet for at least 30 seconds. Then you have her shut the door quietly. If not, lather, rinse, repeat until she does. You MUST have more backbone than she does. |
Anonymous
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Sorry, this is 12:09 again, I wanted to re-read your posts. I thought you said she was falling asleep at 10 or 11, not getting that much sleep. So forget the melatonin rec but I would still check the iron. My nephew was moving around a lot at night and his sleep quality was poor--he was sleeping enough hours but the sleep wasn't restful.
Ignore any of the well-meaning posters suggesting power plays and having "more backbone'. Seriously, this isn't a general parenting topic--most people have no clue what parenting a child like this is like-- and "showing her who's boss" here is only going to make the situation worse. The only discipline approach scientifically demonstrated to work is positive attention for good behaviors/choices and ignoring undesirable behaviors. If you were my friend, I would suggest---if you could afford it--an evaluation by one of the highly recommended developmental pediatricians. It will cost around $700 but you will get an answer and a treatment plan from an expert. If you can't afford that, then make an appt with one of the childrens hospital dev pediatricians. They accept insurance but the wait to see them runs at least 6-9 months out. |
Anonymous
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Just wanted to say a Stay Calm and Carry On to OP - sounds you really are doing a good job at trying many things, getting support, asking for input all in a non defensive way. Hope you get to the bottom of this soon for all of your sakes.
And thanks to all the posters for all the great tips to try for difficult kids! |
Anonymous
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Dear OP,
I just wanted to say that I have two kids that are very strong-willed and sometimes my DS (almost 6) can be like Jekyl and Hyde when overtired or if he has not eaten properly. A lot of what I have been reading lately is focused on positive parenting. Someone (can't remember where I read it) said that if you were at work and someone was constantly saying "DO THIS" or "DO THAT" or "you did X. Go to the conference room. You are being written up"... we would be on edge and stressed and want a new job. Your DD may react better to positive behavior and ignoring some of the behavior that can be ignored... sort of "pick your battles"... You may find this helpful: http://www.raisingyourchallengingchild.com/index.html You might also want to sign up for the listserv on "Raising your challenging child": http://raisingyourchallengingchild.com/mailman/listinfo/discussion HUGS, A fellow DCUM who also struggles with not one but TWO strong-willed, challenging kids |
Anonymous
Yes, PP is right. In addition to the PP who said that therapy for you would be good so you stop taking her behavior personally. If she can behave elsewhere, there is something with your dynamic. I will say, 4yos are tough, especially the girls. My 4.5yo boy picks up on their behavior and I honestly have to hide my laughter when he goes into 'all out tantrum' mode, because I know he got it from the girls at his school. Seriously they are already forming cliques and telling him 'YOU CAN'T PLAY WITH ME TODAY'. It is hard to remember, especially with a younger sibling, that they are still young too. But do what you need to do to get through the day and stop walking on eggshells - buy yourself a big dose of apathy and distance, and you'll be much better off. And, as another PP recommended, try bonding with some girl time - go for an overnight just you two - and remind yourself of how 'grown up' she can be without the 1yo around. Ask her questions, engage in conversation, etc. As for the food - they are so active at 4 that their diet is very important. We eat a lot of high-fat plain greek yogurt, fruit, cheese, nuts, etc. since anything high carb/low fat/low protein/artificial will turn my kids into monsters. Lastly, they need down time even though there is no nap. We use TV to get my 4yo to sit still. PLEASE don't be afraid to do this!!! (FYI his fave new cartoon is phineas and ferb, and you'll fine that it's actually quite amusing.) I'd also make a big deal about how many big girl things she can do because she isn't a baby, like watch TV and play computer games. Get yourself through the day - that is your priority. If you have to do it with constant TV vs. yelling/battling, don't feel like it's a bad option. Because it's not. Lastly, one of the best things I've figured out with my kids is how to 'reset' them. When my 4yo is just being a terror (I don't LIKE this, I don't LIKE YOU MOMMY, etc.) I get down to his level and say, 'Are you having a bad day? You seem upset. Can I have a hug?' and give him a hug. We talk for a minute and carry on (I give him a few minutes to compose himself before interacting further). With my 2yo, it's getting him in the bath or outside that will 'reset' his mood. Can you find her 'reset' trigger? |
Anonymous
This isn't true - there are many approaches that have been scientifically demonstrated to work - and different approaches work for different kids. Also ignoring undesirable behavior is not a good approach. Kids with behavior problems need routine, they need structure, they need clear expectations and consistent consequences. They often have a very hard time regulating their emotions and their behavior and if ignored it can spiral out of control. They often do not have the little voice that tells them to stop and they can get into all kinds of difficulties if their undesirable behavior is ignored. You do have to pick your battles and some minor things might get ignored but much of the undesirable behavior has to be dealt with in order for the child to function safely and socially. If a child is hitting someone, poking the cat in the eye with a stick, throwing food, yelling in a restaurant, spitting at you, etc... ignoring it will not help. Positive attention for good behavior can be used effectively without ignoring undesirable behavior. |
Anonymous
I disagree. I think there are many parents with kids like the OPs (on the general parenting board) who are very challenging and difficult who do not consider their child to be special needs. OPs daughter may end up with a diagnosis but it is quite possible also that she won't and it will just be a matter of figuring out what family dynamics and what approaches are going to work for her. This likely will take professional input but it doesn't mean she will be officially special needs. Even within kids with special needs there really isn't a one size fits all strategy that will magically change behavior. OP and her DH have tried multiple approaches and are seeking out more to try. I am sure they are capable of sorting through and seeing what they have already tried, what goes against their parenting philosophy and what might be a good idea to try. Some of those good ideas may very well come from parents who are not on the special needs boards but have experience with difficult kids. |
Anonymous
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Hello spanking candidate! Just kidding - sort of?
Have you tried videotaping her behavior and then talking it over with her? Weekend Daddy & me or Mommy and me outings without the baby. Without seeing it for myself it sure sounds like attention-grabbing behavior. Quiet time to tell her any things she has been doing that make you proud, like working on her writing or dressing herself or brushing her teeth without being asked. And to remind her to always be good to her sister, because they will need to look out for each other when you are old. We have used M&Ms and stickers as a reward for using the potty and after the doctor or dentist, she should be past that at age 4 but it might help to offer her a reward for using the potty or putting on her shoes before you need to get out the door. You need to remind her every time that this is something everybody needs to do and she is going to go through a lifetime of having her hair brushed, putting on sunscreen etc. and she might as well get used to it. My own mom was out of the picture by the time I was 6 - so I told my daughter, I didn't have a mommy to help me get dressed, you are so lucky to have a loving mommy who cares about you, to take care of you. Sometimes mommies and daddies have to do things to take care of their babies that they don't like, but that's the breaks. She really does seem to calm down when I tell her that story. You can say "I know a lady who didn't have a mommy to help her." My DH started removing the children from the table/kitchen/living room when they weren't behaving - brief timeouts in another room with the door closed. Staying in the room just seemed to make it worse. He has started telling our girls that meltdowns wil not be tolerated. They usually cry and wail at first and then calm down and apologize. Now when he stands up to carry them out of the room they usually pipe down. I wonder if a) your DH has your back when you are trying to work with her and b) if she tires you out too easily. She sounds like a great candidate for Survivor, outwit, outplay, outlast. Except of course that eventually she will get stuck with a label that she will try and live up to, like "the one that drives everybody crazy." |
Anonymous
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Validation of feeling is important.
Does she have her own room? If so I think it is tolerable that it is her space to determine who comes and goes. On that note if shes acting in a way that is not okay within your family then it would be a good time for her to go to her personal space (bedroom) until she is ready to interact in an okay way. we avoid all dye. |
Anonymous
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4 years old was the most trying age with my oldest son (so far).
Some posters suggested family therapy and I thought I add a little on that. Earlier this year, we started therapy for "anxiety" with my now 6 yo. It wasn't set up as "family" therapy but the therapist would ask me into the room sometimes for part of the session. DS was doing great with her alone, but when I got to room - DS would act up big time! It was really helpful for me to see how she would try to correct his behavior. On the one hand, it made me feel like I was the problem (since he only acted up with me in the room). But on the other hand, it was great to see another person's approach with my son. Although I sometimes felt pesimistic that I could be that calm and patient with him on daily basis. Still, it was nice to have another adult acknowledge the difficulties I was facing and assure me that we could work through this all. |