Some thoughts on daycare

[Anonymous]

Lawyer PP here. I am not saying that my JD prepared me for child rearing. I am saying that the same qualities that made me successful at my career make me a good mother. I have been good at school, sports, well, most things, my whole life, and suspect many of the DCUM working moms are the same way. I am good at learning things, a hard worker, like doing things the right way without short cuts, etc. That is what makes people successful in all areas of life. Why on earth I would believe that the (maybe) high school graduates who do not speak English as a first language would be *better* at taking care of my kids who are learning to speak, think, etc., is beyond me, so when people say that of themselves, I cannot understand it. I understand what your preference is, but please stop acting like despite being a straight A student, varsity athlete, obtaining multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, etc., like all of the successful and competent moms out there, you just would be doing junior a disservice if you tried your hand at child care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are no daycares in my country, the "community" pitches in to collectively raise children. There are as many working mothers as there are SAHMs but it's nothing for children to hang out at their neighbor's house until Mom and Dad came home from work. No money exchanged hands and nobody assumed silent grudges, -I don't want to watch your kids-. All the Moms in the community are considered everybody's Moms, houses are interchangeable and there is always a constant revolving door of kids in and out of neighborhood homes. Everybody knew everybody, values are similar across the board. If you got in trouble, Sally's Mom is allowed to and will discipline you the same way your Mom would and that was usually enough.

To some, the arrangement is too close for comfort but I missed that sense of community when I came to the States.

The caveat though is that my country is also not a *rich* country by American standards. People live frugally so there is no need to work crazy hours to provide for your family.

Please name your country. I am incredulous that there is no daycare in your entire country or any paid childcare arrangements with neighbors. The working mothers bring in money and the SAHM willingly watch their neighbors kids all day every work day for free? I believe that their is probably a tight community where kids are in and out of others house, adults watch out for other kids, but there is no way that every workday all over your entire country no working mom has to pay for any childcare.

Frankly I don't see how what this poster described is all that different from me outsourcing to my daycare provider. I use an in-home provider, so I feel like we are family, maybe that has something to do with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer PP here. I am not saying that my JD prepared me for child rearing. I am saying that the same qualities that made me successful at my career make me a good mother. I have been good at school, sports, well, most things, my whole life, and suspect many of the DCUM working moms are the same way. I am good at learning things, a hard worker, like doing things the right way without short cuts, etc. That is what makes people successful in all areas of life. Why on earth I would believe that the (maybe) high school graduates who do not speak English as a first language would be *better* at taking care of my kids who are learning to speak, think, etc., is beyond me, so when people say that of themselves, I cannot understand it. I understand what your preference is, but please stop acting like despite being a straight A student, varsity athlete, obtaining multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, etc., like all of the successful and competent moms out there, you just would be doing junior a disservice if you tried your hand at child care.

But it's okay for DH to outsource childcare to you? Get over yourself!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of us women put our kids in day care because we want to work. We enjoy our jobs and we enjoy contributing to business, the scientific community, the legal community, and other fields just like the menfolk do. If I win the lottery tomorrow I will not become a stay-at-home mom. I was trained to practice a profession and I'm now doing so, just like your husband. My children have high quality child care. They are doing just fine. They are developing perfectly normally.

OP, there has never been a time in history (outside of the early post-war period) that women have been expected to stay at home alone with their children. Women have ALWAYS worked outside of the home. My family comes from a traditional society in rural Africa. All of the adult able-bodied women work. They work in the fields. They work in factories. They do what they need to do to put food on the table. Children are cared for by girls and elderly women who do not have the strength or ability to do the harder work. It has always been that way. Women have always worked and other people (grannies, aunties and young girls) have always looked after people's children.

You are never going to convince the majority of women that they should stay in their homes alone with their children. Women are bright and have skills that benefit society and the economy. We are going to put those skills to use along with our husbands.

Thank you!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The MAN is the PLAN!

Not according to Suzy Orman

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer PP here. I am not saying that my JD prepared me for child rearing. I am saying that the same qualities that made me successful at my career make me a good mother. I have been good at school, sports, well, most things, my whole life, and suspect many of the DCUM working moms are the same way. I am good at learning things, a hard worker, like doing things the right way without short cuts, etc. That is what makes people successful in all areas of life. Why on earth I would believe that the (maybe) high school graduates who do not speak English as a first language would be *better* at taking care of my kids who are learning to speak, think, etc., is beyond me, so when people say that of themselves, I cannot understand it. I understand what your preference is, but please stop acting like despite being a straight A student, varsity athlete, obtaining multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, etc., like all of the successful and competent moms out there, you just would be doing junior a disservice if you tried your hand at child care.

Ugh.

Yeah, lawyer here. My daycare provider actually does know a TON more about teaching infants and young children skills than I do. She is amazing. I don't have a mother who could teach me even HALF of what she has taught me about childcare and infant development...that's her profession after all. I'm the one who carried him for 10 months, nursed him, pumps milk for him, takes care of him when he's sick, when he's up in the middle of the night, when he has to go to the doctor...I'm the one making choices for him that will affect him for the rest of his life, including who will teach him. My daycare provider is part of a larger equation, stop insulting her and me with your bigotry and ignorance.

I work because it's what's best for my child and my family. The end.

[Anonymous]

OK, so in a lot if cases the price a family pays for having a stay at home parent is that the other parent is close to absent from the child(ren)'s lives. In order to earn the kind of income that supports an entire family, the demands of a job often eat up time that might otherwise be considered family time. In a way,it's like deciding that one parent does all the childcare, while the other one is a visitor. I will say upfront that I'm the breadwinner, and my husband was a SAHD for close to a year. It wasn't an acceptable compromise for us. I feel like this aspect of SAH parenting doesn't often get discussed, so...discuss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer PP here. I am not saying that my JD prepared me for child rearing. I am saying that the same qualities that made me successful at my career make me a good mother. I have been good at school, sports, well, most things, my whole life, and suspect many of the DCUM working moms are the same way. I am good at learning things, a hard worker, like doing things the right way without short cuts, etc. That is what makes people successful in all areas of life. Why on earth I would believe that the (maybe) high school graduates who do not speak English as a first language would be *better* at taking care of my kids who are learning to speak, think, etc., is beyond me, so when people say that of themselves, I cannot understand it. I understand what your preference is, but please stop acting like despite being a straight A student, varsity athlete, obtaining multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, etc., like all of the successful and competent moms out there, you just would be doing junior a disservice if you tried your hand at child care.

But it's okay for DH to outsource childcare to you? Get over yourself!

Actually, I have outsourced the earning to him. I used to work while he finished graduate school, and now we are focusing on his career so that I can stay home because we think I am the best person for the job. Taking care of one's own children is actually a luxury for most who do it, and not a result of being victimized by sexist husbands. I appreciate that most working mothers in this country (not those on DCUM, who are generally more like me in that their husbands work and with lifestyle changes they could probably work less or not at all, too) do not have this luxury. I am talking about the professionals who I am always hearing say that someone else can do it better than they. It sounds so disingenuous. (Oh, and it actually kind of sounds like you think you are too good for it--as in, I don't do windows or child care while I could be doing high level memo writing, etc.). I don't actually care what you do, but please stop acting like you are just allocating the jobs to those most capable when you are among the most capable people in the country (and brag about that) in so many other ways. It is hard and you don't want to learn how to do it right because working is much easier. I understand. I used to work. It was much easier. Now, just stop using this dumb excuse and I will shut up, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer PP here. I am not saying that my JD prepared me for child rearing. I am saying that the same qualities that made me successful at my career make me a good mother. I have been good at school, sports, well, most things, my whole life, and suspect many of the DCUM working moms are the same way. I am good at learning things, a hard worker, like doing things the right way without short cuts, etc. That is what makes people successful in all areas of life. Why on earth I would believe that the (maybe) high school graduates who do not speak English as a first language would be *better* at taking care of my kids who are learning to speak, think, etc., is beyond me, so when people say that of themselves, I cannot understand it. I understand what your preference is, but please stop acting like despite being a straight A student, varsity athlete, obtaining multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, etc., like all of the successful and competent moms out there, you just would be doing junior a disservice if you tried your hand at child care.

But it's okay for DH to outsource childcare to you? Get over yourself!

Actually, I have outsourced the earning to him. I used to work while he finished graduate school, and now we are focusing on his career so that I can stay home because we think I am the best person for the job. Taking care of one's own children is actually a luxury for most who do it, and not a result of being victimized by sexist husbands. I appreciate that most working mothers in this country (not those on DCUM, who are generally more like me in that their husbands work and with lifestyle changes they could probably work less or not at all, too) do not have this luxury. I am talking about the professionals who I am always hearing say that someone else can do it better than they. It sounds so disingenuous. (Oh, and it actually kind of sounds like you think you are too good for it--as in, I don't do windows or child care while I could be doing high level memo writing, etc.). I don't actually care what you do, but please stop acting like you are just allocating the jobs to those most capable when you are among the most capable people in the country (and brag about that) in so many other ways. It is hard and you don't want to learn how to do it right because working is much easier. I understand. I used to work. It was much easier. Now, just stop using this dumb excuse and I will shut up, too.

Do you even hear yourself? I wonder how often your kids see their father....

I could quit my job, but that would mean DH would have to get a MUCH MUCH higher paying job essentially work double the hours he works now. We thought about it, and it is not what is best for our kids AT ALL. And you are in denial if you think you're as good as a woman who has helped care for hundreds of babies. You aren't. Your child will be no more special than the thousands of children of professional families in this area, I can guarantee it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer PP here. I am not saying that my JD prepared me for child rearing. I am saying that the same qualities that made me successful at my career make me a good mother. I have been good at school, sports, well, most things, my whole life, and suspect many of the DCUM working moms are the same way. I am good at learning things, a hard worker, like doing things the right way without short cuts, etc. That is what makes people successful in all areas of life. Why on earth I would believe that the (maybe) high school graduates who do not speak English as a first language would be *better* at taking care of my kids who are learning to speak, think, etc., is beyond me, so when people say that of themselves, I cannot understand it. I understand what your preference is, but please stop acting like despite being a straight A student, varsity athlete, obtaining multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, etc., like all of the successful and competent moms out there, you just would be doing junior a disservice if you tried your hand at child care.

But it's okay for DH to outsource childcare to you? Get over yourself!

Actually, I have outsourced the earning to him. I used to work while he finished graduate school, and now we are focusing on his career so that I can stay home because we think I am the best person for the job. Taking care of one's own children is actually a luxury for most who do it, and not a result of being victimized by sexist husbands. I appreciate that most working mothers in this country (not those on DCUM, who are generally more like me in that their husbands work and with lifestyle changes they could probably work less or not at all, too) do not have this luxury. I am talking about the professionals who I am always hearing say that someone else can do it better than they. It sounds so disingenuous. (Oh, and it actually kind of sounds like you think you are too good for it--as in, I don't do windows or child care while I could be doing high level memo writing, etc.). I don't actually care what you do, but please stop acting like you are just allocating the jobs to those most capable when you are among the most capable people in the country (and brag about that) in so many other ways. It is hard and you don't want to learn how to do it right because working is much easier. I understand. I used to work. It was much easier. Now, just stop using this dumb excuse and I will shut up, too.

Do you even hear yourself? I wonder how often your kids see their father....

I could quit my job, but that would mean DH would have to get a MUCH MUCH higher paying job essentially work double the hours he works now. We thought about it, and it is not what is best for our kids AT ALL. And you are in denial if you think you're as good as a woman who has helped care for hundreds of babies. You aren't. Your child will be no more special than the thousands of children of professional families in this area, I can guarantee it.

He sees them every night and all weekend. Ok, you win, someone with more childcare experience is better than I am at it. I probably should not have wasted all this time LEARNING how best to care for them (MY children). The fact that I am the children's mother is likely irrelevant to them anyway. To each according to his abilities, right? People should hire wet nurses with high milk supplies and night nannies with sleep training experience instead of doing any of the child care. They are the experts, after all!! Of course that is ridiculous. Just please stop saying to people at your kids' birthday parties (super defensively) that you are so grateful for your nanny because you would just be so bad at the job. It makes you sound like a liar, as well as that you think the nanny is too dumb to appreciate how shitty a job she has.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP, there has never been a time in history (outside of the early post-war period) that women have been expected to stay at home alone with their children. Women have ALWAYS worked outside of the home. My family comes from a traditional society in rural Africa. All of the adult able-bodied women work. They work in the fields. They work in factories. They do what they need to do to put food on the table. Children are cared for by girls and elderly women who do not have the strength or ability to do the harder work. It has always been that way. Women have always worked and other people (grannies, aunties and young girls) have always looked after people's children.

You are never going to convince the majority of women that they should stay in their homes alone with their children. Women are bright and have skills that benefit society and the economy. We are going to put those skills to use along with our husbands.

Hmmm... I am not a student of history, but I don't know that we should be discussing what life is like for people who are essentially peasants, with child rearing practices of the middle and upper middle class today.

People who have to work in the fields, have to work in the fields. They certainly have older girls and elderly grannies who watch the babies, and they let the toddlers run wild and hope they don't fall down the well or get eaten by dingos. I don't think that is the ideal child rearing situation for my children though.

You say, PP, that there has never been a time in history (outside of that brief post war period) that women have been expected to stay home ALONE with their children. And that may well be true. But the situations you describe (peasants working on the family farm) also do not involve warehousing infants into group care situations, either. They were cared for at home by their parents and extended family members, because their parents were working on the family farm.

It's only been since the invention of factories, and office jobs, that many many adults leave the home and go out to work some 9-5 jobs at a far distance from their homes, that the concept of "daycare" needed to be established. I believe it started when women needed to work in the factories, not when men did -- because up till then, caring for infants and toddlers was still seen as women's work (probably because formula hadn't been invented yet).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer PP here. I am not saying that my JD prepared me for child rearing. I am saying that the same qualities that made me successful at my career make me a good mother. I have been good at school, sports, well, most things, my whole life, and suspect many of the DCUM working moms are the same way. I am good at learning things, a hard worker, like doing things the right way without short cuts, etc. That is what makes people successful in all areas of life. Why on earth I would believe that the (maybe) high school graduates who do not speak English as a first language would be *better* at taking care of my kids who are learning to speak, think, etc., is beyond me, so when people say that of themselves, I cannot understand it. I understand what your preference is, but please stop acting like despite being a straight A student, varsity athlete, obtaining multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, etc., like all of the successful and competent moms out there, you just would be doing junior a disservice if you tried your hand at child care.

But it's okay for DH to outsource childcare to you? Get over yourself!

Actually, I have outsourced the earning to him. I used to work while he finished graduate school, and now we are focusing on his career so that I can stay home because we think I am the best person for the job. Taking care of one's own children is actually a luxury for most who do it, and not a result of being victimized by sexist husbands. I appreciate that most working mothers in this country (not those on DCUM, who are generally more like me in that their husbands work and with lifestyle changes they could probably work less or not at all, too) do not have this luxury. I am talking about the professionals who I am always hearing say that someone else can do it better than they. It sounds so disingenuous. (Oh, and it actually kind of sounds like you think you are too good for it--as in, I don't do windows or child care while I could be doing high level memo writing, etc.). I don't actually care what you do, but please stop acting like you are just allocating the jobs to those most capable when you are among the most capable people in the country (and brag about that) in so many other ways. It is hard and you don't want to learn how to do it right because working is much easier. I understand. I used to work. It was much easier. Now, just stop using this dumb excuse and I will shut up, too.

Do you even hear yourself? I wonder how often your kids see their father....

I could quit my job, but that would mean DH would have to get a MUCH MUCH higher paying job essentially work double the hours he works now. We thought about it, and it is not what is best for our kids AT ALL. And you are in denial if you think you're as good as a woman who has helped care for hundreds of babies. You aren't. Your child will be no more special than the thousands of children of professional families in this area, I can guarantee it.

He sees them every night and all weekend. Ok, you win, someone with more childcare experience is better than I am at it. I probably should not have wasted all this time LEARNING how best to care for them (MY children). The fact that I am the children's mother is likely irrelevant to them anyway. To each according to his abilities, right? People should hire wet nurses with high milk supplies and night nannies with sleep training experience instead of doing any of the child care. They are the experts, after all!! Of course that is ridiculous. Just please stop saying to people at your kids' birthday parties (super defensively) that you are so grateful for your nanny because you would just be so bad at the job. It makes you sound like a liar, as well as that you think the nanny is too dumb to appreciate how shitty a job she has.

Who the hell are you even talking about??? I don't know working mom's like the one's you're describing. I do know moms who are incredibly grateful for the fact that they have excellent childcare. My daycare provider really is more knowledgeable than I am, but I don't use daycare BECAUSE of that. I use daycare because overall, staying at work, is much much better for my family. You are suggesting that we don't parent our kids simply because we work out of the home. You really need to shut up now.

[Anonymous]

Please stfu loser. You probably did not have a "career" to speak of anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer PP here. I am not saying that my JD prepared me for child rearing. I am saying that the same qualities that made me successful at my career make me a good mother. I have been good at school, sports, well, most things, my whole life, and suspect many of the DCUM working moms are the same way. I am good at learning things, a hard worker, like doing things the right way without short cuts, etc. That is what makes people successful in all areas of life. Why on earth I would believe that the (maybe) high school graduates who do not speak English as a first language would be *better* at taking care of my kids who are learning to speak, think, etc., is beyond me, so when people say that of themselves, I cannot understand it. I understand what your preference is, but please stop acting like despite being a straight A student, varsity athlete, obtaining multiple degrees, speaking multiple languages, etc., like all of the successful and competent moms out there, you just would be doing junior a disservice if you tried your hand at child care.

But it's okay for DH to outsource childcare to you? Get over yourself!

Actually, I have outsourced the earning to him. I used to work while he finished graduate school, and now we are focusing on his career so that I can stay home because we think I am the best person for the job. Taking care of one's own children is actually a luxury for most who do it, and not a result of being victimized by sexist husbands. I appreciate that most working mothers in this country (not those on DCUM, who are generally more like me in that their husbands work and with lifestyle changes they could probably work less or not at all, too) do not have this luxury. I am talking about the professionals who I am always hearing say that someone else can do it better than they. It sounds so disingenuous. (Oh, and it actually kind of sounds like you think you are too good for it--as in, I don't do windows or child care while I could be doing high level memo writing, etc.). I don't actually care what you do, but please stop acting like you are just allocating the jobs to those most capable when you are among the most capable people in the country (and brag about that) in so many other ways. It is hard and you don't want to learn how to do it right because working is much easier. I understand. I used to work. It was much easier. Now, just stop using this dumb excuse and I will shut up, too.

Do you even hear yourself? I wonder how often your kids see their father....

I could quit my job, but that would mean DH would have to get a MUCH MUCH higher paying job essentially work double the hours he works now. We thought about it, and it is not what is best for our kids AT ALL. And you are in denial if you think you're as good as a woman who has helped care for hundreds of babies. You aren't. Your child will be no more special than the thousands of children of professional families in this area, I can guarantee it.

He sees them every night and all weekend. Ok, you win, someone with more childcare experience is better than I am at it. I probably should not have wasted all this time LEARNING how best to care for them (MY children). The fact that I am the children's mother is likely irrelevant to them anyway. To each according to his abilities, right? People should hire wet nurses with high milk supplies and night nannies with sleep training experience instead of doing any of the child care. They are the experts, after all!! Of course that is ridiculous. Just please stop saying to people at your kids' birthday parties (super defensively) that you are so grateful for your nanny because you would just be so bad at the job. It makes you sound like a liar, as well as that you think the nanny is too dumb to appreciate how shitty a job she has.

Who the hell are you even talking about??? I don't know working mom's like the one's you're describing. I do know moms who are incredibly grateful for the fact that they have excellent childcare. My daycare provider really is more knowledgeable than I am, but I don't use daycare BECAUSE of that. I use daycare because overall, staying at work, is much much better for my family. You are suggesting that we don't parent our kids simply because we work out of the home. You really need to shut up now.

You don't know working moms who say their daycare providers are better at childcare? I was responding to all the working moms who posted early on. All I am saying is that you *can* be great at child care if you are willing to work hard at it and learn--in the same way you have tackled everything else in life. If you don't want to, you don't want to. But I am just really tired of the line about how you can't do it. I really don't care what you do. I am just tired of hearing that daycare centers are BETTER at taking care of your kid that you are. Look at me! I have a JD, PhD, I can run a marathon! But I can't take care of a child. It is just a dumb thing to say and I read/hear it a lot. That is my limited point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP, there has never been a time in history (outside of the early post-war period) that women have been expected to stay at home alone with their children. Women have ALWAYS worked outside of the home. My family comes from a traditional society in rural Africa. All of the adult able-bodied women work. They work in the fields. They work in factories. They do what they need to do to put food on the table. Children are cared for by girls and elderly women who do not have the strength or ability to do the harder work. It has always been that way. Women have always worked and other people (grannies, aunties and young girls) have always looked after people's children.

You are never going to convince the majority of women that they should stay in their homes alone with their children. Women are bright and have skills that benefit society and the economy. We are going to put those skills to use along with our husbands.

Hmmm... I am not a student of history, but I don't know that we should be discussing what life is like for people who are essentially peasants, with child rearing practices of the middle and upper middle class today.

People who have to work in the fields, have to work in the fields. They certainly have older girls and elderly grannies who watch the babies, and they let the toddlers run wild and hope they don't fall down the well or get eaten by dingos. I don't think that is the ideal child rearing situation for my children though.

You say, PP, that there has never been a time in history (outside of that brief post war period) that women have been expected to stay home ALONE with their children. And that may well be true. But the situations you describe (peasants working on the family farm) also do not involve warehousing infants into group care situations, either. They were cared for at home by their parents and extended family members, because their parents were working on the family farm.

It's only been since the invention of factories, and office jobs, that many many adults leave the home and go out to work some 9-5 jobs at a far distance from their homes, that the concept of "daycare" needed to be established. I believe it started when women needed to work in the factories, not when men did -- because up till then, caring for infants and toddlers was still seen as women's work (probably because formula hadn't been invented yet).

I

Listen out of work lawyer mommy (yeah, it's clear it's you)....do you have any idea what a middle class family deals with in this area? ANY IDEA? How wonderful for you that your husband can work and support you and your family. WONDERFUL. That is not a reality for my family. We are BOTH LAWYERS...who are very underemployed and not willing to make compromises that we think will hurt our families....like moving outside the beltway and taking on a two hour commute just so one of us can be home. If your husband actually sees your children at night, I would be really shocked. He must be making a TON of money for you guys to live close enough for that to happen. So please, STFU already.

And warehousing? Really? My daycare is hardly a warehouse. Did you ever use daycare? Must have been a really shitty one for you to be so hung up about it.