Some thoughts on daycare

[Anonymous]

I remember reading some article on the impact of "No fault Divorce" laws on society as a whole. Back in the 50s and earlier, a husband worked at his job and provided for the wife and kids. If he met someone younger and prettier and wanted to dump the first wife, he couldn't unless she was at fault (adultury, abandonment, etc.) So in order to get her to agree to the divorce, they had to come to an agreeable settlement, which usually involved using his salary to support her and the kids, keeping her on his health insurance, keeping her on his pension, etc.

When it became easier to get no faulty divorces in the 70s, guys could just ditch the stay at home wives for wife number two and not have to agree to much at all. Yeah there was some alimony and child support -- but not the health insurance, pension, etc.

This was the era when SAHwives found themselves being dropped and stuck -- no work skills etc. So many women now cite seeing what happened to their moms and promising that they would never let that happen to them; they would never drop out of the workforce for any reason because that's what makes you vulnerable if someone leaves you.

In many countries, the safety net of pension and health insurance is there whether you are mararied or not. So that makes it a lot easier for someone to stay out of the workforce for a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay- I'll feed the troll.

My kids have learned things in daycare that I never could have taught them as a SAHM. My control cases are my neices and nephews; other SAHM.

My kids accept diversity without question. Their caregivers and classmates are from all over the world and my kids have never asked me why so and so's skin is darker than their's. They don't care because they have grown up with people who don't look like them. They have been hugged and loved and cared for by people who are different. They do not fear difference in the world- they approach others with openness and curiosity, not fear.

My kids have learned independence. They have learned to navigate the world without Mommy and Daddy at their side. They have learned that other people can love you and take care of you, other than their parents.

My kids have learned to interact with their peers. They have learned to negociate disagreements. They don't just run to Mom or Dad to protest or negociate for them. My kids have learned how to handle disputes with their words.

Unless you are an arts and crafts whiz and a former teachers, they have been exposed to a richness of diverse opportunities to learn; express themselves through art and music. They were ready for school much before the kids of SAHMs. They understand routine and classroom management. They went to kindergarden writing, reading and doing math because they had learned so much. They accepted structure.

I'm the OP. I like your post (except the part where you suggest that I'm a troll) because it brings up some potential benefits about daycare that I hadn't considered about daycare. Maybe I just had a particularly bad daycare (although I don't think so (?) it was highly regarded)..but I just felt like all they did was sit in the same room as the kids and make sure they stayed alive.
I appreciate other posts as well. I have some further comments but have to run out right now - will come back later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In answer to your question ... yes, in other countries (such as France & Scandinavia) they have daycare. It is paid for by the state. The difference is that those countries generally provide generous PAID maternity leave, in addition to the general high-quality safety net for things like health care and unemployment benefits. So if you're a mother there, it's much more practical to take a year off of work, because the government supports that choice. This does not have to do with the "general denegration of our society" -- it has to do with very specific social welfare policies we've chosen in this country -- ie, to have basically no safety net or support for families at all.

This. If the US would actually put its money where its mouth is regarding "family values," maybe things would be different. But since we are one of the few countries in the world (besides Swaziland and Lesotho) that don't offer paid parental leave of any kind, many parents have no choice but to put their kids in daycare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will you be home schooling, OP?

The first years of life are when the vast majority of all brain development and all learning takes place. The early years set the foundation for he rest of the child's life. Once they are school age, it adds to it but really it is those first few years of life that matter the most in who your child will be.

OK, well that must be my problem. I was a daycare kid and simply didn't LEARN anything. You see, my mom wasn't around to teach me and, once I hit Kindergarten, I wasn't capable of learning anymore. All those years of school were just to augment the very little I learned as an infant and a toddler. No wonder I feel so dumb!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to share my thoughts about the concept of daycare in general. I am wondering if anyone agrees with how I feel. It saddens me that so many of us put our kids in daycare. Daycare was my plan when I got pregnant with my first, but after a few weeks of it, I realized that I wanted to be the one raising DC and I quit my job. I am lucky that we were able to afford to get by on just DH's income. I understand that, in this country (especially in the DC area, and other metropolitan areas like it), both parents often have to work in order to be able to support their children. I'm not trying to insult any families that are doing that. My comments are more about the way we're living collectively in this country, where parents find it necessary to outsource the important task of raising their children to person or persons they barely know. Is daycare a common thing in other countries, I wonder (e.g., the Scandinavian countries, where standards of living and quality of life are reported to be so high?) It just seems so unnatural to me...the idea of having people we don't know that well spend more waking hours with our little ones than we do. Sometimes I wonder if it has something to do with the general degeneration of our society (in my opinion). Thanks for listening.

I love my son's day care and am thankful for the experiences, friends, and fantastic caregivers he's had over the past few years. Why does this make you SAD?

[Anonymous]

Some of us women put our kids in day care because we want to work. We enjoy our jobs and we enjoy contributing to business, the scientific community, the legal community, and other fields just like the menfolk do. If I win the lottery tomorrow I will not become a stay-at-home mom. I was trained to practice a profession and I'm now doing so, just like your husband. My children have high quality child care. They are doing just fine. They are developing perfectly normally.

OP, there has never been a time in history (outside of the early post-war period) that women have been expected to stay at home alone with their children. Women have ALWAYS worked outside of the home. My family comes from a traditional society in rural Africa. All of the adult able-bodied women work. They work in the fields. They work in factories. They do what they need to do to put food on the table. Children are cared for by girls and elderly women who do not have the strength or ability to do the harder work. It has always been that way. Women have always worked and other people (grannies, aunties and young girls) have always looked after people's children.

You are never going to convince the majority of women that they should stay in their homes alone with their children. Women are bright and have skills that benefit society and the economy. We are going to put those skills to use along with our husbands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is in daycare but I'm still raising him. ?

You are part of raising him but someone still has to also be raising him while you are at work. His growth and development and learning and need for all the things you give him don't stop while you are at work. Someone else is responding to him, teaching him, shaping who he will be.

True. But I hand-picked who is helping me, so they help teach "my" values to my son. It's not as if I just shoved him out on his own somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is in daycare but I'm still raising him. ?

You are part of raising him but someone still has to also be raising him while you are at work. His growth and development and learning and need for all the things you give him don't stop while you are at work. Someone else is responding to him, teaching him, shaping who he will be.

But what is so wrong with someone else helping to raise your kid? Unless they are teaching him to be a serial killer, why won't you let someone you supposedly trust and are paying for that trust to help raise your child? I think it's rather narcissitic, short sighted and incredibly self absorbed to think you are the only one who can teach your child anything of value in life and you must be the ONLY person to respond to him or shape him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In answer to your question ... yes, in other countries (such as France & Scandinavia) they have daycare. It is paid for by the state. The difference is that those countries generally provide generous PAID maternity leave, in addition to the general high-quality safety net for things like health care and unemployment benefits. So if you're a mother there, it's much more practical to take a year off of work, because the government supports that choice. This does not have to do with the "general denegration of our society" -- it has to do with very specific social welfare policies we've chosen in this country -- ie, to have basically no safety net or support for families at all.

This. If the US would actually put its money where its mouth is regarding "family values," maybe things would be different. But since we are one of the few countries in the world (besides Swaziland and Lesotho) that don't offer paid parental leave of any kind, many parents have no choice but to put their kids in daycare.

This was also my thought when I first read the post. Generous maternity leave would be so lovely, but it is not the reality here. I find all the political rhetoric about family values in this country to be such BS.

That said, I think there have been many excellent responses here, esp. from the mom who talked about all the things her children learned in daycare and the mom who talked about liking to work. I would second both of those posts. And I commend both of you for responding intelligently but also nicely. So rare around here on what can be touchy topic.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP- I'm the 15:16 poster. I'm glad I gave you some food for thought on the upsides of daycare. I use a federally run daycare and it is exceptional. I can concede that not all daycares are great, or even good. I hope you can accept that kids can reap rewards from daycare. In our American society, we value independence, performance, order, control. All of these qualities were introduced at my daycare. Daycare taught my kids how to clean up after themselves; throw away their own trash; unpack their own lunch; push in their chair when they are done; say "please" and "thank you" and "excuse me". Of course, I reinforce these behaviors at home. I know many kids with SAHMs where these behaviors are not nutured or reinforced. I get it- the dynamic is different with Mom. Mom is the 24 hour caretaker. When I send my kids to daycare they understand that their teachers take care of them. They also understand that they are expected to take care of themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to share my thoughts about the concept of daycare in general. I am wondering if anyone agrees with how I feel. It saddens me that so many of us put our kids in daycare. Daycare was my plan when I got pregnant with my first, but after a few weeks of it, I realized that I wanted to be the one raising DC and I quit my job. I am lucky that we were able to afford to get by on just DH's income. I understand that, in this country (especially in the DC area, and other metropolitan areas like it), both parents often have to work in order to be able to support their children. I'm not trying to insult any families that are doing that. My comments are more about the way we're living collectively in this country, where parents find it necessary to outsource the important task of raising their children to person or persons they barely know. Is daycare a common thing in other countries, I wonder (e.g., the Scandinavian countries, where standards of living and quality of life are reported to be so high?) It just seems so unnatural to me...the idea of having people we don't know that well spend more waking hours with our little ones than we do. Sometimes I wonder if it has something to do with the general degeneration of our society (in my opinion). Thanks for listening.

You make me sad....and MAD!!!
how dare you say in one post that you are not trying to insult families that put their kid in daycare and in the same paragraph make comments like:
"It saddens me that so many of us put our kids in daycare"
"I wanted to be the one raising DC"
"parents find it necessary to outsource the important task of raising their children to people they barely know"

Are you so ignorant that you don't see how insulting that is to those of us that put our kid in daycare?
To say to me (yes, ME, who has her kid in daycare) that I'm outsourcing raising my kid is not only insulting it's ignorant and narrow-minded. Not to mention hurtful.

how about I'm broadening my kid's life? I'm finding the best people to surround my kid with? how about, my strengths are not sitting around singing "wheels on the bus," and making crafts but instead are finding the best and the brightest to raise my child the best I know how?

People like you are the reasons SAHMs have such a bad reputation. You're sitting in your house, alone, with an infant, not recognizing that you might not be choosing what's best for your kid, but rather what's best for you. Why not come back to us when your kid is 4, scared to be around anyone else but you, can't read, and doesn't know how to use scissors because he or she has never made a craft before. Then we can say how isolating your child from the world saddens US!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is in daycare but I'm still raising him. ?

You are part of raising him but someone still has to also be raising him while you are at work. His growth and development and learning and need for all the things you give him don't stop while you are at work. Someone else is responding to him, teaching him, shaping who he will be.

But what is so wrong with someone else helping to raise your kid? Unless they are teaching him to be a serial killer, why won't you let someone you supposedly trust and are paying for that trust to help raise your child? I think it's rather narcissitic, short sighted and incredibly self absorbed to think you are the only one who can teach your child anything of value in life and you must be the ONLY person to respond to him or shape him.

I was hoping at least one of my kids would turn out to be a serial killer, but my daycare really let me down.

Damn you, Montessori!

[Anonymous]

I LOVE DAYCARE!!! DS learns so much more and is exposed to much more that if he were at home with me. I could keep him alove all day but he would probably be lonely, not have crafts to do, not be exposed to differect cultures, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to share my thoughts about the concept of daycare in general. I am wondering if anyone agrees with how I feel. It saddens me that so many of us put our kids in daycare. Daycare was my plan when I got pregnant with my first, but after a few weeks of it, I realized that I wanted to be the one raising DC and I quit my job. I am lucky that we were able to afford to get by on just DH's income. I understand that, in this country (especially in the DC area, and other metropolitan areas like it), both parents often have to work in order to be able to support their children. I'm not trying to insult any families that are doing that. My comments are more about the way we're living collectively in this country, where parents find it necessary to outsource the important task of raising their children to person or persons they barely know. Is daycare a common thing in other countries, I wonder (e.g., the Scandinavian countries, where standards of living and quality of life are reported to be so high?) It just seems so unnatural to me...the idea of having people we don't know that well spend more waking hours with our little ones than we do. Sometimes I wonder if it has something to do with the general degeneration of our society (in my opinion). Thanks for listening.

You make me sad....and MAD!!!
how dare you say in one post that you are not trying to insult families that put their kid in daycare and in the same paragraph make comments like:
"It saddens me that so many of us put our kids in daycare"
"I wanted to be the one raising DC"
"parents find it necessary to outsource the important task of raising their children to people they barely know"

Are you so ignorant that you don't see how insulting that is to those of us that put our kid in daycare?
To say to me (yes, ME, who has her kid in daycare) that I'm outsourcing raising my kid is not only insulting it's ignorant and narrow-minded. Not to mention hurtful.

how about I'm broadening my kid's life? I'm finding the best people to surround my kid with? how about, my strengths are not sitting around singing "wheels on the bus," and making crafts but instead are finding the best and the brightest to raise my child the best I know how?

People like you are the reasons SAHMs have such a bad reputation. You're sitting in your house, alone, with an infant, not recognizing that you might not be choosing what's best for your kid, but rather what's best for you. Why not come back to us when your kid is 4, scared to be around anyone else but you, can't read, and doesn't know how to use scissors because he or she has never made a craft before. Then we can say how isolating your child from the world saddens US!!!

Not OP and certainly not someone who would say the things that she said to you. But way to react with anger at one person's comments and say how hurtful they are, then spew equally hurtful and hateful things back at the other side. I guess people like you are....assholes.

[Anonymous]

OP, you make all of us SAHMs look very bad. No wonder why we get no respect in our culture. Sometimes you just need to shut up and keep your thoughts to yourself.