Some thoughts on daycare

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This entire thread makes me thankful, not because I am a SAHM, but because I am confident that the choice I made was the best for our family. One of my sisters works outside of the home full time. The other works part time. I am at home full time. My best friend works full time. None of us are "selfish". We all made decisions based on what works for our families. If you are one of the posters ranting about how horrible working moms are for leaving their kids all day, or how lazy and unmotivated SAHMs are, I can only assume that your passion comes from being completely unsure of the choice you made. Otherwise, why would it be so important to you? Why on earth would you feel the need to justify your decisions about the way you are raising your children to a bunch of strangers on the internet?

I am fine with the SAH vs WOH debate. I think as mothers it's important that we constantly reexamine our decisions. But you don't have to bash people who choose differently than you do in order to debate the point. For those of you who SAH....unless you are very lazy, you do not spend all day with your kids. You are (or should be) busy keeping the house clean, cooking, grocery shopping, planning, paying bills, managing budgets, volunteering...all the day-to-day stuff that comes with managing a home. When both parents work outside the home, those jobs are shared. When one parent is at home full time, most (if not all) of the home management should fall to the person at home.

And for the WOHM....if you feel the need to defend yourself about working full-time, then it's likely you are working too many hours. If you are comfortable with your work/life balance, then you aren't going to feel the need to justify your decision over and over again. Those of us who have been parents for a while (my oldest is 23) know that there is no pefect answer. We are all doing the very best we can for our children. And for many moms, working outside the home IS the best thing for their children. For some, there is no choice. Their children have grown accustomed to eating. And their salary pays the bills. For others, it's not as much about the money as it is the need for fulfillment outside the home. A happy, healthy working mom is much better for her kids than is a miserable SAHM.

For some of us staying at home is less of a choice and more of a necessity. My husband is former military and now works for the federal government. We move every 3-4 years and always have. It would be difficult, if not impossible for me to have a career simply because of all the moving around. Plus, my husband works insanely long, unpredictable hours and travels quite a bit. Logistically, my staying at home makes life easier for all of us. And I love staying at home, so it's a perfect arrangement.

Stop and think about it. The only reason this is such a heated topic is because there is so much insecurity on both sides.

Hear, hear. Well said. And on that note, I say we end this

We're all neighbors. We're all doing our best!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, I tend to agree with you. The thing is, no matter how comfortable I am with my own choice, it makes my blood boil with rage to see women tearing eachother down. In this particular thread, most of the attacks seem to be coming from one or two extremely insecure SAHMs. They are being beyond hurtful. And frankly, deserve to have every name in the book thrown at them.

I'm one of the PPs being called names. I'm not attacking anyone. I only answered OP's question and some lady is coming up with names that I don't even know what they mean to try to offend me just because we don't share the same POV. She's entitled to her opinion and I'm entitled to mine. I didn't call anybody names, I'm just expressing how I feel about my decision and what I think about others. Isn't it what this whole forum thing is all about? Sharing our opinion on polemic topics?

I'm not insecure at all. I know for sure that I'm doing the best for my children. I just don't share the same POV some of you seem to have, that keeping a job at most awaken hours of your child is good for their development, and there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other.

I would never dare to say that to any of my WAH friends ever. I'm just being really honest here because we're all anonymous and I just hope the angry mommy doesn't really walk around calling all SAH moms Cs or Bs.

Another thing I don't understand is why everybody is assuming I don't have a career and if I had I don't intend to go back. It's a matter of priority. Right now my priority are my children. Once I'm comfortable with them being in other settings I'll be ready to rejoin the work force. I made my choices wisely and I'm proud of my family. We all should be proud of our decisions and if we second guess them, tearing others down is not the best way to boost up our confidence.

Angry mommy, please rethink your choice if you feel so offended when people question your decision. Maybe you're not that comfortable with your setting anyway...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, I tend to agree with you. The thing is, no matter how comfortable I am with my own choice, it makes my blood boil with rage to see women tearing eachother down. In this particular thread, most of the attacks seem to be coming from one or two extremely insecure SAHMs. They are being beyond hurtful. And frankly, deserve to have every name in the book thrown at them.

I'm one of the PPs being called names. I'm not attacking anyone. I only answered OP's question and some lady is coming up with names that I don't even know what they mean to try to offend me just because we don't share the same POV. She's entitled to her opinion and I'm entitled to mine. I didn't call anybody names, I'm just expressing how I feel about my decision and what I think about others. Isn't it what this whole forum thing is all about? Sharing our opinion on polemic topics?

I'm not insecure at all. I know for sure that I'm doing the best for my children. I just don't share the same POV some of you seem to have, that keeping a job at most awaken hours of your child is good for their development, and there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other.

I would never dare to say that to any of my WAH friends ever. I'm just being really honest here because we're all anonymous and I just hope the angry mommy doesn't really walk around calling all SAH moms Cs or Bs.

Another thing I don't understand is why everybody is assuming I don't have a career and if I had I don't intend to go back. It's a matter of priority. Right now my priority are my children. Once I'm comfortable with them being in other settings I'll be ready to rejoin the work force. I made my choices wisely and I'm proud of my family. We all should be proud of our decisions and if we second guess them, tearing others down is not the best way to boost up our confidence.

Angry mommy, please rethink your choice if you feel so offended when people question your decision. Maybe you're not that comfortable with your setting anyway...

Listen lady, don't even pretend you haven't been intentionally goading people on this thread. Please. You just will not concede that your words were extremely hurtful, insulting, and flat-out denigrating to all WOHMS. Your posts don't have a modicum of respect for anyone's choices but your own. You apparently can dish out the insults but can't take them. People are calling you names because they legitimately don't like you....not your opinions...YOU.

If you can't tell you WOHM friends the things you said here, why do you think that is? Oh wait, that's because they'd see you for the horrible person you are and you'd have no friends left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This entire thread makes me thankful, not because I am a SAHM, but because I am confident that the choice I made was the best for our family. One of my sisters works outside of the home full time. The other works part time. I am at home full time. My best friend works full time. None of us are "selfish". We all made decisions based on what works for our families. If you are one of the posters ranting about how horrible working moms are for leaving their kids all day, or how lazy and unmotivated SAHMs are, I can only assume that your passion comes from being completely unsure of the choice you made. Otherwise, why would it be so important to you? Why on earth would you feel the need to justify your decisions about the way you are raising your children to a bunch of strangers on the internet?

I am fine with the SAH vs WOH debate. I think as mothers it's important that we constantly reexamine our decisions. But you don't have to bash people who choose differently than you do in order to debate the point. For those of you who SAH....unless you are very lazy, you do not spend all day with your kids. You are (or should be) busy keeping the house clean, cooking, grocery shopping, planning, paying bills, managing budgets, volunteering...all the day-to-day stuff that comes with managing a home. When both parents work outside the home, those jobs are shared. When one parent is at home full time, most (if not all) of the home management should fall to the person at home.

And for the WOHM....if you feel the need to defend yourself about working full-time, then it's likely you are working too many hours. If you are comfortable with your work/life balance, then you aren't going to feel the need to justify your decision over and over again. Those of us who have been parents for a while (my oldest is 23) know that there is no pefect answer. We are all doing the very best we can for our children. And for many moms, working outside the home IS the best thing for their children. For some, there is no choice. Their children have grown accustomed to eating. And their salary pays the bills. For others, it's not as much about the money as it is the need for fulfillment outside the home. A happy, healthy working mom is much better for her kids than is a miserable SAHM.

For some of us staying at home is less of a choice and more of a necessity. My husband is former military and now works for the federal government. We move every 3-4 years and always have. It would be difficult, if not impossible for me to have a career simply because of all the moving around. Plus, my husband works insanely long, unpredictable hours and travels quite a bit. Logistically, my staying at home makes life easier for all of us. And I love staying at home, so it's a perfect arrangement.

Stop and think about it. The only reason this is such a heated topic is because there is so much insecurity on both sides.

Finally, a sensible person! Would you please be my friend???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, I tend to agree with you. The thing is, no matter how comfortable I am with my own choice, it makes my blood boil with rage to see women tearing eachother down. In this particular thread, most of the attacks seem to be coming from one or two extremely insecure SAHMs. They are being beyond hurtful. And frankly, deserve to have every name in the book thrown at them.

I'm one of the PPs being called names. I'm not attacking anyone. I only answered OP's question and some lady is coming up with names that I don't even know what they mean to try to offend me just because we don't share the same POV. She's entitled to her opinion and I'm entitled to mine. I didn't call anybody names, I'm just expressing how I feel about my decision and what I think about others. Isn't it what this whole forum thing is all about? Sharing our opinion on polemic topics?

I'm not insecure at all. I know for sure that I'm doing the best for my children. I just don't share the same POV some of you seem to have, that keeping a job at most awaken hours of your child is good for their development, and there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other.

I would never dare to say that to any of my WAH friends ever. I'm just being really honest here because we're all anonymous and I just hope the angry mommy doesn't really walk around calling all SAH moms Cs or Bs.

Another thing I don't understand is why everybody is assuming I don't have a career and if I had I don't intend to go back. It's a matter of priority. Right now my priority are my children. Once I'm comfortable with them being in other settings I'll be ready to rejoin the work force. I made my choices wisely and I'm proud of my family. We all should be proud of our decisions and if we second guess them, tearing others down is not the best way to boost up our confidence.

Angry mommy, please rethink your choice if you feel so offended when people question your decision. Maybe you're not that comfortable with your setting anyway...

Listen lady, don't even pretend you haven't been intentionally goading people on this thread. Please. You just will not concede that your words were extremely hurtful, insulting, and flat-out denigrating to all WOHMS. Your posts don't have a modicum of respect for anyone's choices but your own. You apparently can dish out the insults but can't take them. People are calling you names because they legitimately don't like you....not your opinions...YOU.

If you can't tell you WOHM friends the things you said here, why do you think that is? Oh wait, that's because they'd see you for the horrible person you are and you'd have no friends left.

No, I don't say everything I think because I have a filter. People without this filter are considered mentally ill in our society. I disagree with a lot of people in a lot of topics and it's none of my business what they do with their families so that's why I don't tell them what I think. They don't ask me, they don't need to know what I think.

You only have friends that you agree with? It must be so boring! You've never changed your mind about anything? I've changed plenty and I love to have people around me with different POVs. We learn a lot from each other all the time.

That said, I believe we're all free to make our own choices and if you're not happy with yours just change it. It's easy.

[Anonymous]

You need medication.

[Anonymous]

OP, if you feel so strongly about the {poor} quality of childcare in our country...why don't you do something about it?

Why don't you open a daycare center that embodies your philosophy (parent led care). Instead of judging, why don't you DO SOMETHING HELPFUL FOR SOCIETY. Support the people that make your world go round...the grocery checker, the librarian, the policeman/woman, the elementary school teachers, the church receptionist, the sales associate at Nordstrom, the insurance adjuster, the nurse...my son's daycare is at a church. The church believes that all working parents should be cherished, supported, and confident that while they are out putting food on the table (and gasp- finding professional fulfillment), our child is well cared for.

Honestly, I don't know what I am doing as a parent...and I am so glad that I have help in raising my child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you feel so strongly about the {poor} quality of childcare in our country...why don't you do something about it?

Why don't you open a daycare center that embodies your philosophy (parent led care). Instead of judging, why don't you DO SOMETHING HELPFUL FOR SOCIETY. Support the people that make your world go round...the grocery checker, the librarian, the policeman/woman, the elementary school teachers, the church receptionist, the sales associate at Nordstrom, the insurance adjuster, the nurse...my son's daycare is at a church. The church believes that all working parents should be cherished, supported, and confident that while they are out putting food on the table (and gasp- finding professional fulfillment), our child is well cared for.

Honestly, I don't know what I am doing as a parent...and I am so glad that I have help in raising my child.

I never said I don't need/have help raising my child and why are you assuming I'm not doing anything?

Lots of assumptions going on here...

Anyway, it was your choice to have children and it was your choice to leave them behind (if you left them) so why does my opinion matter?

[Anonymous]

I'm someone who's secure in my choices (my kids are almost grown, and not babies anymore) but I do feel strongly about this topic because there are so many moms who hear so much about how they simply can't work full time and raise wonderful children. I post to say it can, and is, being done every day in many places. Don't assume you can't combine them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP. I would like to apologize to everyone for starting this thread. It wasn't my intention for it to turn out like this. I've read through all of the posts and even though there have been many nasty and hateful posts, lots of other posters make good points. I have been made aware of some POVs that I hadn't considered before.
I Googled the issue of daycare, and discovered that the latest review of the data (2010) concludes that there's no clear evidence that it's detrimental to kids.
I hope that we can put this thread to rest and, despite our opinions and preferences, agree that each mom is doing what she feels is best for her family.

What did you think when you posted here on this topic? Had you never been to DCUM and didn't know what kind of place this was? Or are you just looking for people to validate your choices?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, I tend to agree with you. The thing is, no matter how comfortable I am with my own choice, it makes my blood boil with rage to see women tearing eachother down. In this particular thread, most of the attacks seem to be coming from one or two extremely insecure SAHMs. They are being beyond hurtful. And frankly, deserve to have every name in the book thrown at them.

I'm one of the PPs being called names. I'm not attacking anyone. I only answered OP's question and some lady is coming up with names that I don't even know what they mean to try to offend me just because we don't share the same POV. She's entitled to her opinion and I'm entitled to mine. I didn't call anybody names, I'm just expressing how I feel about my decision and what I think about others. Isn't it what this whole forum thing is all about? Sharing our opinion on polemic topics?

I'm not insecure at all. I know for sure that I'm doing the best for my children. I just don't share the same POV some of you seem to have, that keeping a job at most awaken hours of your child is good for their development, and there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other.

I would never dare to say that to any of my WAH friends ever. I'm just being really honest here because we're all anonymous and I just hope the angry mommy doesn't really walk around calling all SAH moms Cs or Bs.

Another thing I don't understand is why everybody is assuming I don't have a career and if I had I don't intend to go back. It's a matter of priority. Right now my priority are my children. Once I'm comfortable with them being in other settings I'll be ready to rejoin the work force. I made my choices wisely and I'm proud of my family. We all should be proud of our decisions and if we second guess them, tearing others down is not the best way to boost up our confidence.

Angry mommy, please rethink your choice if you feel so offended when people question your decision. Maybe you're not that comfortable with your setting anyway...

Then why are you spending so much of your time tearing down other WOHMs? You say you are proud of your decisions, but the way you are tearing us all down, you aren't so proud - by your own admission of the way proud mamas should act. I think you are purposely enjoying getting everyone up in arms and mad- for some sick reason you like seeing the anger you raise in others. I was mad, but now I'm just sad for you - I feel sorry for you because of your need to keep this going and going and going. If you truly were just "expressing your differing opinion" you would have stopped at one (insulting) post and not continued to jab and jab. But by continuing, you're just showing everyone how defensive you really are. I'm sorry for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you feel so strongly about the {poor} quality of childcare in our country...why don't you do something about it?

Why don't you open a daycare center that embodies your philosophy (parent led care). Instead of judging, why don't you DO SOMETHING HELPFUL FOR SOCIETY. Support the people that make your world go round...the grocery checker, the librarian, the policeman/woman, the elementary school teachers, the church receptionist, the sales associate at Nordstrom, the insurance adjuster, the nurse...my son's daycare is at a church. The church believes that all working parents should be cherished, supported, and confident that while they are out putting food on the table (and gasp- finding professional fulfillment), our child is well cared for.

Honestly, I don't know what I am doing as a parent...and I am so glad that I have help in raising my child.

I never said I don't need/have help raising my child and why are you assuming I'm not doing anything?

Lots of assumptions going on here...

Anyway, it was your choice to have children and it was your choice to leave them behind (if you left them) so why does my opinion matter?

Ok, so what helpful contribution are you making to society...well, other than raising your kiddos (which we are all doing)? Do you volunteer? Donate? Encourage? Support?

Your opinion matters, OP. Maybe not to me on a personal level...but it does matter. Why would you assume that it doesn't?

Do you really think I have left my children behind? yes, I work...yes, my child goes to daycare...I love my child in ways I can't even begin to express. But, I also have responsibilities and debts. What do you suggest that I do? I am really sad that you think children in daycare are "left behind". My feelings couldn't be more opposite...I feel grateful, happy even, that I am able to provide my child with a safe environment full of fun experiences while I contribute to our community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hate? Really? Where do you see hate? I have pity! I don't hate anybody... I just feel really sorry for those who believe that paying someone (very very little) to give their children what we, parents, do for free and out of love is the best they can do. Some of you even said that money was more important! How terrible!

And I did show him this and he laughed. When we decided it was time for kids we made sure we could afford it with SAH/WAH arrangements. He knows my POV and totally supports my decision to SAH and even changed his work arrangement to be able to WAH more often. We don't agree in everything but when we disagree we compromise and the one who didn't get their way always supports the other. As I said before, we're partners! We don't take turns. We work together.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you guys stop looking at your belly button you'll realize that not everybody has a 9-5er (or 6-9er like some of you seem to have).

DH is not paying me to watch his children and he's not counting on strangers to watch his child. I'm his spouse, his loving partner, the mother of the child. Your little accusation means nothing, it really doesn't make any sense. He's not paying some stranger to to love his child. He's not relaying on a piece of paper or a 5 minute conversation at pick up to know what is going on during his child's day. He's either there watching it while he works from home or hearing first hand from me, his loving wife who has only this child's best interest in mind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"My child doesn't know statistics. All she knows is that her mommy is there when she falls and gets hurt or when she's hungry for her milk. Not a complete stranger that is paid to "love" her and feed her on a schedule along with 4 other children (depending on the ration established by the state)."

But it's okay that daddy is not there?

Who said daddy is not there?

Sorry if your DH is absent. Mine is not.

So neither you nor your DH works outside the home??? You do realize that very, very few families can afford such an arrangement, right? You are unbelievable.

Who said my husband doesn't work? Lots of assumptions going on here, huh?

Not pp you're responding to, but you really are not so smart, huh? Your DH either doesn't work, or works at least as much as a wohm that you keep saying doesn't raise the kid or isn't parenting or is paying someone to love them. Every thing you are saying about the wohm is the same thing that you are saying about your working DH. Unless he doesn't work. That's what the pp was saying. No wonder you don't work. You are dumb.

My dear, if you were as loving as you claim to be, you wouldn't be so hateful and narrow-minded towards women whose circumstances are different than yours. I would rather have my DD be with a day care teacher than pick such narrow-minded, judgmental values from you. BTW, did you show your DH this thread? Please do. I'm curious what his take on this is.

New poster here - I love that you pity me.

I have a big house, a wonderful job, loving husband. My daughter is very happy with lots of friends. We take several expensive vacations a year and I promise you - life is great.

Try being happy and not looking down on others. It might change your outlook on life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, I tend to agree with you. The thing is, no matter how comfortable I am with my own choice, it makes my blood boil with rage to see women tearing eachother down. In this particular thread, most of the attacks seem to be coming from one or two extremely insecure SAHMs. They are being beyond hurtful. And frankly, deserve to have every name in the book thrown at them.

I'm one of the PPs being called names. I'm not attacking anyone. I only answered OP's question and some lady is coming up with names that I don't even know what they mean to try to offend me just because we don't share the same POV. She's entitled to her opinion and I'm entitled to mine. I didn't call anybody names, I'm just expressing how I feel about my decision and what I think about others. Isn't it what this whole forum thing is all about? Sharing our opinion on polemic topics?

I'm not insecure at all. I know for sure that I'm doing the best for my children. I just don't share the same POV some of you seem to have, that keeping a job at most awaken hours of your child is good for their development, and there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other.

I would never dare to say that to any of my WAH friends ever. I'm just being really honest here because we're all anonymous and I just hope the angry mommy doesn't really walk around calling all SAH moms Cs or Bs.

Another thing I don't understand is why everybody is assuming I don't have a career and if I had I don't intend to go back. It's a matter of priority. Right now my priority are my children. Once I'm comfortable with them being in other settings I'll be ready to rejoin the work force. I made my choices wisely and I'm proud of my family. We all should be proud of our decisions and if we second guess them, tearing others down is not the best way to boost up our confidence.

Angry mommy, please rethink your choice if you feel so offended when people question your decision. Maybe you're not that comfortable with your setting anyway...

I also believe I'm doing the best for my daughter. And, doing the best for my daughter is not staying at home and letting her see a daddy that is in control of our lives. Letting her see that a WOMEN is financially responsible for her life. Letting her see a WORKING mom.

Grow up lady, you are teaching your daughter that a woman belongs barefoot and pregnant.

[Anonymous]

No, I don't say everything I think because I have a filter. People without this filter are considered mentally ill in our society. I disagree with a lot of people in a lot of topics and it's none of my business what they do with their families so that's why I don't tell them what I think. They don't ask me, they don't need to know what I think.

You only have friends that you agree with? It must be so boring! You've never changed your mind about anything? I've changed plenty and I love to have people around me with different POVs. We learn a lot from each other all the time.

That said, I believe we're all free to make our own choices and if you're not happy with yours just change it. It's easy.

You know damn well that you don't open your mouth and say what you think about WOHMs to your "friends" because they would never speak to you again. Not because they would think you are mentally ill... (though I'm starting to think you might be).

Of course I have friends I disagree with. The difference is, I fundamentally respect them. I don't hang around with people whose choices I simply can't respect. For example, if I know you hit your children I won't be your friend. If you really think that people who use daycare aren't raising their children and don't love them enough, how could you even stand to be around them?

Oh wait, it's because you don't really think that.


You just used this thread to get off on making other people feel bad, and you are enjoying picking on people who might not feel as secure in their choices as they SHOULD.

NO ONE is completely secure in every decision they make as a parent, and you are exploiting that for your own sick pleasure. It's called gas-lighting and it's something that narcissists do. You should be ashamed of yourself, but you won't be....because I think I just explained why.

And with that. I flounce. People like you are just pure poison. Good day.