Frustration with 2e/gifted child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

The school evaluation determined she doesn’t quite meet the criteria for autism. I do honestly think it’s something that presents a lot like autism in many ways, but it’s different.

I think she likely has DH’s traits that are similar to autism- and some of the personality traits. But then she also has some of my adhd traits, which causes a lot of frustration for her because she knows she is smart and yet she gets easily stuck. And I think it’s the combination that is truly problematic. Because DH can’t be taught- he needs to figure out everything for himself. He has never let me teach him anything. He slept through all of his med school classes and yet was able to pass with flying colors because he had the ability because he’s a genius. She does not have that same ability.

The school evaluation is not sufficient. You need a private autism screening like the ADOS-2. Trust me when I say from personal experience that undiagnosed ASD is rampant among doctors and their children. Stay in touch with his med school/residency friends and you’ll see…

All his friends from med school are divorced. They are definitely all ND and are different. But not sure autism fits. They are all very successful in their work life. I will think about the ADOS-2 but I think we need to wait at least another year. We’ve had so many healthcare expenses that’s not covered by insurance as well as other unforeseen costs. And I am pretty sure our daughter will not cooperate with yet another evaluation.

Looking into it, I just saw that the test takes an hour or less so maybe it is something our daughter might cooperate for. Expensive, but maybe worthwhile if it turns out she actually has autism. Otherwise it would be a waste.

Also DH’s siblings all have certain struggles but they are all so different. All divorced. All very gifted and extremely successful in their work life. The one has remarried. I think people are just so different and hard to categorize. It does seem like very gifted individuals struggle more in other areas of their life. I am gifted as well but less so than DH, and I’ve definitely had my share of struggles.

It would not be a waste to rule out autism. You need to know what is going on if you want to fix it - she clearly needs medication, if nothing else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And maybe stop catering to her so much. Take a break. If she is picky about food, only go out of your way if she is polite. Step away from being her punching bag.

+1
Why are you indulging her picky eating and taking all of this verbal abuse? Don't engage. Ignore. Leave the room.

Personally, I would clean her room, launder her clothes, and cook regular meals that the rest of the family is eating. If she complains, offer to drive her to the grocery store so she can buy ingredients for a meal that she wants to cook. If she starts yelling, then leave the room.

If she starts talking about wanting you dead, then say "that is a hurtful thing to say" and leave the room. If she starts yelling at or engaging with her siblings in an inappropriate way, then take them and leave the house to drive to the park or somewhere else.

You don't have to put up with her abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

The school evaluation determined she doesn’t quite meet the criteria for autism. I do honestly think it’s something that presents a lot like autism in many ways, but it’s different.

I think she likely has DH’s traits that are similar to autism- and some of the personality traits. But then she also has some of my adhd traits, which causes a lot of frustration for her because she knows she is smart and yet she gets easily stuck. And I think it’s the combination that is truly problematic. Because DH can’t be taught- he needs to figure out everything for himself. He has never let me teach him anything. He slept through all of his med school classes and yet was able to pass with flying colors because he had the ability because he’s a genius. She does not have that same ability.

The school evaluation is not sufficient. You need a private autism screening like the ADOS-2. Trust me when I say from personal experience that undiagnosed ASD is rampant among doctors and their children. Stay in touch with his med school/residency friends and you’ll see…

All his friends from med school are divorced. They are definitely all ND and are different. But not sure autism fits. They are all very successful in their work life. I will think about the ADOS-2 but I think we need to wait at least another year. We’ve had so many healthcare expenses that’s not covered by insurance as well as other unforeseen costs. And I am pretty sure our daughter will not cooperate with yet another evaluation.

You will fill questionare in Ados 2 in parent side input. And even if she lied but you answer the questionare as your described in here, that alone could pretty much guarantee she is autistic, and verly likely also adhd.
I just did evaluation few months back, my kid is not as severe, and fell into the criteria, and since then the IEP accommodation was change to have more support at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lady, she’s autistic. She’s not a sociopath, she sounds like a textbook autistic 14 yo (living horror is so common) and is behaving like autistic teens behave when they are under supported and incredibly anxious and feeling out of control. Others have successfully walked this path before. You have gotten some pretty good advice on this thread - a strong IEP, DBT therapy, a neuropsych evaluation for her, a psychiatrist for meds. Also therapy for you. You seem resistant to some of the good suggestions offered - I realize you are tired overwhelmed but take some baby steps. Good luck.

We have already approved the IEP. What would YOU say makes up a strong IEP for an autistic 14yo? I'm trying to find a path forward that makes sense with where we are at now. I can talk to DH about the possibility of a neuropsych evaluation, but frankly I don't feel I need to rush that step. We had already consulted with someone for one several months ago. But we decided that we would follow the path for doing the free school evaluation first and see where that led.

She has been seeing a therapist for 3 months. I have done about 3 years of therapy which I ended about a year ago - it helped a lot with the parenting struggles, the relationship struggles, learning healthier communication skills, coping strategies, and my building my self esteem.

All that to say, I'm not in denial or refusing to take any steps. I don't want to make decisions that are counter-productive. And I have an entire school team who literally spent several weeks evaluating her through many tests and classroom observations, and teacher interviews, telling me that our daughter does not meet the criteria for autism or adhd. They acknowledged she shares many similar traits. But there were certain markers that were missing in her which are needed to actually meet the criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And maybe stop catering to her so much. Take a break. If she is picky about food, only go out of your way if she is polite. Step away from being her punching bag.

+1
Why are you indulging her picky eating and taking all of this verbal abuse? Don't engage. Ignore. Leave the room.

Personally, I would clean her room, launder her clothes, and cook regular meals that the rest of the family is eating. If she complains, offer to drive her to the grocery store so she can buy ingredients for a meal that she wants to cook. If she starts yelling, then leave the room.

If she starts talking about wanting you dead, then say "that is a hurtful thing to say" and leave the room. If she starts yelling at or engaging with her siblings in an inappropriate way, then take them and leave the house to drive to the park or somewhere else.

You don't have to put up with her abuse.

This is actually a big thing I took away from the advice on this thread, and I have been doing it, and it has been much, much better.

I detached myself. Very little conflict, because I just refuse to engage with her when she tries to start a fight with me. I did start cleaning her room regularly, preparing all her meals, and cleaning up after her, and that's pretty much eliminated all the nagging. I told her I would be doing these things for her since she wasn't doing them, and it's been clear she has not been able to do them on her own. I don't nag her anymore about going to bed at a decent hour, or whether or not she eats the foods we prepare her.

She did freak out on me for cleaning her room, and putting her things away, because she doesn't want me touching her stuff, but I was non-emotional about it and told her I'd continue to do it as long as she wasn't doing it. I stopped trying to engage with her - because it only ever led to insults.

She still tries to spontaneously start fights with me, but I just tell her that I don't want to argue with her. I stopped doing anything special for her. She still asks me to do things for her, like run errands for her to pick up a special food for her. I just ignore them or tell her I'm not able to. I stopped greeting her in the morning, because she has always responded with something like "Go away" or "Go die".

It's made me realize I have complete control over my own reactions and my feelings. I think I was worried she'd be angrier that I was detaching, but she is actually less angry and seems a lot calmer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lady, she’s autistic. She’s not a sociopath, she sounds like a textbook autistic 14 yo (living horror is so common) and is behaving like autistic teens behave when they are under supported and incredibly anxious and feeling out of control. Others have successfully walked this path before. You have gotten some pretty good advice on this thread - a strong IEP, DBT therapy, a neuropsych evaluation for her, a psychiatrist for meds. Also therapy for you. You seem resistant to some of the good suggestions offered - I realize you are tired overwhelmed but take some baby steps. Good luck.

We have already approved the IEP. What would YOU say makes up a strong IEP for an autistic 14yo? I'm trying to find a path forward that makes sense with where we are at now. I can talk to DH about the possibility of a neuropsych evaluation, but frankly I don't feel I need to rush that step. We had already consulted with someone for one several months ago. But we decided that we would follow the path for doing the free school evaluation first and see where that led.

She has been seeing a therapist for 3 months. I have done about 3 years of therapy which I ended about a year ago - it helped a lot with the parenting struggles, the relationship struggles, learning healthier communication skills, coping strategies, and my building my self esteem.

All that to say, I'm not in denial or refusing to take any steps. I don't want to make decisions that are counter-productive. And I have an entire school team who literally spent several weeks evaluating her through many tests and classroom observations, and teacher interviews, telling me that our daughter does not meet the criteria for autism or adhd. They acknowledged she shares many similar traits. But there were certain markers that were missing in her which are needed to actually meet the criteria.

Does not meet criteria for educational autism. Yes, the schools will gaslight you into saying she’s not autistic but they only mean in the educational sense. If you don’t want to know and prefer denial, then say so but she has not been evaluated properly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lady, she’s autistic. She’s not a sociopath, she sounds like a textbook autistic 14 yo (living horror is so common) and is behaving like autistic teens behave when they are under supported and incredibly anxious and feeling out of control. Others have successfully walked this path before. You have gotten some pretty good advice on this thread - a strong IEP, DBT therapy, a neuropsych evaluation for her, a psychiatrist for meds. Also therapy for you. You seem resistant to some of the good suggestions offered - I realize you are tired overwhelmed but take some baby steps. Good luck.

We have already approved the IEP. What would YOU say makes up a strong IEP for an autistic 14yo? I'm trying to find a path forward that makes sense with where we are at now. I can talk to DH about the possibility of a neuropsych evaluation, but frankly I don't feel I need to rush that step. We had already consulted with someone for one several months ago. But we decided that we would follow the path for doing the free school evaluation first and see where that led.

She has been seeing a therapist for 3 months. I have done about 3 years of therapy which I ended about a year ago - it helped a lot with the parenting struggles, the relationship struggles, learning healthier communication skills, coping strategies, and my building my self esteem.

All that to say, I'm not in denial or refusing to take any steps. I don't want to make decisions that are counter-productive. And I have an entire school team who literally spent several weeks evaluating her through many tests and classroom observations, and teacher interviews, telling me that our daughter does not meet the criteria for autism or adhd. They acknowledged she shares many similar traits. But there were certain markers that were missing in her which are needed to actually meet the criteria.

Does not meet criteria for educational autism. Yes, the schools will gaslight you into saying she’s not autistic but they only mean in the educational sense. If you don’t want to know and prefer denial, then say so but she has not been evaluated properly.

Help me understand in depth what I will get beyond what we already have (IEP supports) for doing the additional testing. The testing costs $5-6k which is a lot of money to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lady, she’s autistic. She’s not a sociopath, she sounds like a textbook autistic 14 yo (living horror is so common) and is behaving like autistic teens behave when they are under supported and incredibly anxious and feeling out of control. Others have successfully walked this path before. You have gotten some pretty good advice on this thread - a strong IEP, DBT therapy, a neuropsych evaluation for her, a psychiatrist for meds. Also therapy for you. You seem resistant to some of the good suggestions offered - I realize you are tired overwhelmed but take some baby steps. Good luck.

We have already approved the IEP. What would YOU say makes up a strong IEP for an autistic 14yo? I'm trying to find a path forward that makes sense with where we are at now. I can talk to DH about the possibility of a neuropsych evaluation, but frankly I don't feel I need to rush that step. We had already consulted with someone for one several months ago. But we decided that we would follow the path for doing the free school evaluation first and see where that led.

She has been seeing a therapist for 3 months. I have done about 3 years of therapy which I ended about a year ago - it helped a lot with the parenting struggles, the relationship struggles, learning healthier communication skills, coping strategies, and my building my self esteem.

All that to say, I'm not in denial or refusing to take any steps. I don't want to make decisions that are counter-productive. And I have an entire school team who literally spent several weeks evaluating her through many tests and classroom observations, and teacher interviews, telling me that our daughter does not meet the criteria for autism or adhd. They acknowledged she shares many similar traits. But there were certain markers that were missing in her which are needed to actually meet the criteria.

Does not meet criteria for educational autism. Yes, the schools will gaslight you into saying she’s not autistic but they only mean in the educational sense. If you don’t want to know and prefer denial, then say so but she has not been evaluated properly.

Help me understand in depth what I will get beyond what we already have (IEP supports) for doing the additional testing. The testing costs $5-6k which is a lot of money to us.

Just my 2 cent.
If she is doing fine at school but lash out at home, it could be autistic burnout, she masks so hard.
Proper diagnosis could maybe help the family navigating the issue at home (parents training, coach, family therapy, medication)
My kid is the opposite, doing fine at home because it is his safe place, but not at school.. he hates school, that is why IEP helps him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just had a thought- could it be that she has a personality disorder and that is the real issue?

An actual neuropsychological workup would identify this. It would also more clearly rule in or out autism, ADHD, anxiety disorders, and a raft of other psychological/neurological conditions. It might well be worth the $5k, spendy though it is.

TBH it sounds like you do not have a clear and complete diagnosis at the moment.

[Anonymous]

You are working full time and your husband only works part time and has 20 hours a week for his hobbies, yet he’s ok with you doing everything and you being run ragged. Is it possible your daughter learned to treat you this way by watching your husband?

Maybe you and your daughter are fighting each other because expressing anger and frustration toward your husband leads to violence? She’s expressing her upset to the parent that is safer?

There are a series of books by Lundy Barncroft. One is “Why does he do that?” It explains things in domestic violence situations. Some of the outcomes can be the kids & mom fighting each other……because no one can admit any frustration with Dad as he is severe in his responses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And maybe stop catering to her so much. Take a break. If she is picky about food, only go out of your way if she is polite. Step away from being her punching bag.

+1
Why are you indulging her picky eating and taking all of this verbal abuse? Don't engage. Ignore. Leave the room.

Personally, I would clean her room, launder her clothes, and cook regular meals that the rest of the family is eating. If she complains, offer to drive her to the grocery store so she can buy ingredients for a meal that she wants to cook. If she starts yelling, then leave the room.

If she starts talking about wanting you dead, then say "that is a hurtful thing to say" and leave the room. If she starts yelling at or engaging with her siblings in an inappropriate way, then take them and leave the house to drive to the park or somewhere else.

You don't have to put up with her abuse.

This is actually a big thing I took away from the advice on this thread, and I have been doing it, and it has been much, much better.

I detached myself. Very little conflict, because I just refuse to engage with her when she tries to start a fight with me. I did start cleaning her room regularly, preparing all her meals, and cleaning up after her, and that's pretty much eliminated all the nagging. I told her I would be doing these things for her since she wasn't doing them, and it's been clear she has not been able to do them on her own. I don't nag her anymore about going to bed at a decent hour, or whether or not she eats the foods we prepare her.

She did freak out on me for cleaning her room, and putting her things away, because she doesn't want me touching her stuff, but I was non-emotional about it and told her I'd continue to do it as long as she wasn't doing it. I stopped trying to engage with her - because it only ever led to insults.

She still tries to spontaneously start fights with me, but I just tell her that I don't want to argue with her. I stopped doing anything special for her. She still asks me to do things for her, like run errands for her to pick up a special food for her. I just ignore them or tell her I'm not able to. I stopped greeting her in the morning, because she has always responded with something like "Go away" or "Go die".

It's made me realize I have complete control over my own reactions and my feelings. I think I was worried she'd be angrier that I was detaching, but she is actually less angry and seems a lot calmer.

I think that is a great approach, OP. Good for you, and keep it up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here.

Don't read the sociopath book.

You and your husband need immediate expert advice on how to handle her and probably therapy as well. I recommend finding a therapist that can do the parent part of DBT for Children with you. We have a similar DD and shifting our behavior even 10-20% made a big difference ultimately with her behavior. Our DD is much better now and I think that is due to 1. our learning how to manage her, 2. time and maturity, 3. therapy and DBT training that DD ultimately got.

I know nothing about DBT. Looking into it, it appears to be recommended for individuals who self harm or are suicidal, but I don’t think our daughter struggles with either of these. At least not yet. She externalizes everything. She takes no accountability. It’s all anger and blame directed at everyone around her. There is no inward anger. Do you still think it’s a solution for her?

We do plan on shifting to family therapy instead of individual therapy for her.

DBT therapy was originally developed for teens and young adults who were at risk of self harm or suicide but it is so effective it is now used much more widely. It is great for disregulated tweens and teens if you can get them to try it. But, even if you can't, you can make a lot of progress with them by getting trained in the parent component yourself. The therapist will spend time listening to the struggles you are having with your kid and make suggestions about how to handle different situations, give you tools to practice etc. There is even a competent where you can call the therapist on their cell in the middle of a difficult situation and receive coaching on how to handle in real time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lady, she’s autistic. She’s not a sociopath, she sounds like a textbook autistic 14 yo (living horror is so common) and is behaving like autistic teens behave when they are under supported and incredibly anxious and feeling out of control. Others have successfully walked this path before. You have gotten some pretty good advice on this thread - a strong IEP, DBT therapy, a neuropsych evaluation for her, a psychiatrist for meds. Also therapy for you. You seem resistant to some of the good suggestions offered - I realize you are tired overwhelmed but take some baby steps. Good luck.

We have already approved the IEP. What would YOU say makes up a strong IEP for an autistic 14yo? I'm trying to find a path forward that makes sense with where we are at now. I can talk to DH about the possibility of a neuropsych evaluation, but frankly I don't feel I need to rush that step. We had already consulted with someone for one several months ago. But we decided that we would follow the path for doing the free school evaluation first and see where that led.

She has been seeing a therapist for 3 months. I have done about 3 years of therapy which I ended about a year ago - it helped a lot with the parenting struggles, the relationship struggles, learning healthier communication skills, coping strategies, and my building my self esteem.

All that to say, I'm not in denial or refusing to take any steps. I don't want to make decisions that are counter-productive. And I have an entire school team who literally spent several weeks evaluating her through many tests and classroom observations, and teacher interviews, telling me that our daughter does not meet the criteria for autism or adhd. They acknowledged she shares many similar traits. But there were certain markers that were missing in her which are needed to actually meet the criteria.

Does not meet criteria for educational autism. Yes, the schools will gaslight you into saying she’s not autistic but they only mean in the educational sense. If you don’t want to know and prefer denial, then say so but she has not been evaluated properly.

Help me understand in depth what I will get beyond what we already have (IEP supports) for doing the additional testing. The testing costs $5-6k which is a lot of money to us.

The fact that you think she might be a sociopath as opposed to autistic is harming your relationship and also tells me you have very little understanding of autism and things that help autistic kids. You will continue to struggle to raise her with this nebulous advice given by “school psychologists.”
You do realize they aren’t really PhD psychologists, right? They’ll often have a MS is education. Also, most regular therapists aren’t equipped to help autistic teens. Signed parent of autistic teen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And maybe stop catering to her so much. Take a break. If she is picky about food, only go out of your way if she is polite. Step away from being her punching bag.

+1
Why are you indulging her picky eating and taking all of this verbal abuse? Don't engage. Ignore. Leave the room.

Personally, I would clean her room, launder her clothes, and cook regular meals that the rest of the family is eating. If she complains, offer to drive her to the grocery store so she can buy ingredients for a meal that she wants to cook. If she starts yelling, then leave the room.

If she starts talking about wanting you dead, then say "that is a hurtful thing to say" and leave the room. If she starts yelling at or engaging with her siblings in an inappropriate way, then take them and leave the house to drive to the park or somewhere else.

You don't have to put up with her abuse.

This is actually a big thing I took away from the advice on this thread, and I have been doing it, and it has been much, much better.

I detached myself. Very little conflict, because I just refuse to engage with her when she tries to start a fight with me. I did start cleaning her room regularly, preparing all her meals, and cleaning up after her, and that's pretty much eliminated all the nagging. I told her I would be doing these things for her since she wasn't doing them, and it's been clear she has not been able to do them on her own. I don't nag her anymore about going to bed at a decent hour, or whether or not she eats the foods we prepare her.

She did freak out on me for cleaning her room, and putting her things away, because she doesn't want me touching her stuff, but I was non-emotional about it and told her I'd continue to do it as long as she wasn't doing it. I stopped trying to engage with her - because it only ever led to insults.

She still tries to spontaneously start fights with me, but I just tell her that I don't want to argue with her. I stopped doing anything special for her. She still asks me to do things for her, like run errands for her to pick up a special food for her. I just ignore them or tell her I'm not able to. I stopped greeting her in the morning, because she has always responded with something like "Go away" or "Go die".

It's made me realize I have complete control over my own reactions and my feelings. I think I was worried she'd be angrier that I was detaching, but she is actually less angry and seems a lot calmer.

I think that is a great approach, OP. Good for you, and keep it up!

It sounds like you have figured out a way to reduce conflict and settle the whole situation down which is good. Staying calm yourself is really important. And I agree that making her meals and minimally cleaning her room is a good idea. But, also, you are going to have to try to figure out how to get back in relationship with her. Her relationship with you is actually really important for her wellbeing even if she doesn't think so. Try looking for statements that she makes that you can validate some part of. Like she says, "I hate my little brother. He is a complete a-hole" and you say something like, "It makes sense to me that you are really frustrated with him. I think most people in your situation would be annoyed with how loud he is being at the moment." It is like threading a needle often to find something you can validate and then say it in a way that sounds natural. But, if you do, she will slightly soften because she will feel heard. This a DBT technique.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And maybe stop catering to her so much. Take a break. If she is picky about food, only go out of your way if she is polite. Step away from being her punching bag.

+1
Why are you indulging her picky eating and taking all of this verbal abuse? Don't engage. Ignore. Leave the room.

Personally, I would clean her room, launder her clothes, and cook regular meals that the rest of the family is eating. If she complains, offer to drive her to the grocery store so she can buy ingredients for a meal that she wants to cook. If she starts yelling, then leave the room.

If she starts talking about wanting you dead, then say "that is a hurtful thing to say" and leave the room. If she starts yelling at or engaging with her siblings in an inappropriate way, then take them and leave the house to drive to the park or somewhere else.

You don't have to put up with her abuse.

This is actually a big thing I took away from the advice on this thread, and I have been doing it, and it has been much, much better.

I detached myself. Very little conflict, because I just refuse to engage with her when she tries to start a fight with me. I did start cleaning her room regularly, preparing all her meals, and cleaning up after her, and that's pretty much eliminated all the nagging. I told her I would be doing these things for her since she wasn't doing them, and it's been clear she has not been able to do them on her own. I don't nag her anymore about going to bed at a decent hour, or whether or not she eats the foods we prepare her.

She did freak out on me for cleaning her room, and putting her things away, because she doesn't want me touching her stuff, but I was non-emotional about it and told her I'd continue to do it as long as she wasn't doing it. I stopped trying to engage with her - because it only ever led to insults.

She still tries to spontaneously start fights with me, but I just tell her that I don't want to argue with her. I stopped doing anything special for her. She still asks me to do things for her, like run errands for her to pick up a special food for her. I just ignore them or tell her I'm not able to. I stopped greeting her in the morning, because she has always responded with something like "Go away" or "Go die".

It's made me realize I have complete control over my own reactions and my feelings. I think I was worried she'd be angrier that I was detaching, but she is actually less angry and seems a lot calmer.

I think that is a great approach, OP. Good for you, and keep it up!

It sounds like you have figured out a way to reduce conflict and settle the whole situation down which is good. Staying calm yourself is really important. And I agree that making her meals and minimally cleaning her room is a good idea. But, also, you are going to have to try to figure out how to get back in relationship with her. Her relationship with you is actually really important for her wellbeing even if she doesn't think so. Try looking for statements that she makes that you can validate some part of. Like she says, "I hate my little brother. He is a complete a-hole" and you say something like, "It makes sense to me that you are really frustrated with him. I think most people in your situation would be annoyed with how loud he is being at the moment." It is like threading a needle often to find something you can validate and then say it in a way that sounds natural. But, if you do, she will slightly soften because she will feel heard. This a DBT technique.

I feel like you just used DBT on me, well played 😉, I must admit it’s pretty effective!

This part is hard for me and something I’ll need to learn. That is…I can shut off my feelings and feel less invested, but it’s hard to do so while still trying to connect. Partly a principle thing, which always gets me into trouble, but it’s hard for me to break free from that way of thinking.