Frustration with 2e/gifted child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read all of the responses but I have/had a very similar situation with my 13 y/o 2e daughter who was diagnosed with autism just before her 13th birthday. She was previously diagnosed with ADHD at age 5.

Here are my biggest tips for you:

1. Get an advocate who can re-approach the IEP process with you. It will make things so much easier at home if you have the right supports at school. Join the Fairfax County 2e group and people can recommend names.

2. ABA, ABA, ABA. I cannot emphasize it enough. ABA, ABA, ABA. This has changed our daughter's life and our home life and INSURANCE COVERS EVERYTHING!!!! ABA is not what you think - it's nothing like the perception of kids being forced to make eye contact. We now have a contract with her about what she needs to do in order to earn rewards of screen time, etc, and we have providers in our home 15 hours per week after school each day sitting with her and getting her to do her homework, etc. Helping her clean her room. Making sure she showers. It has changed our life and she's so much happier now that she's on the right path.

What do you mean by “reapproach the IEP”? I admit this is all very new to me, but I feel like school has been pretty great. What would an advocate do beyond what we already have?

As for ABA- does that require a diagnosis in order for it to be covered?

I feel like for our daughter, more than half of the issue is her personality and her automatic opposition to everything, and resistance to accepting her limitations and accepting help. She sees both as a failure. She won’t even take that first initial step.

Thanks for weighing in with your experience.

[Anonymous]

I’m normally anti boarding school, but it seems the structure and removal from the toxic family dynamic (not a shot at you OP) seems like it could be really beneficial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school report is clearly garbage. Get a private eval done. You might get the district to pay for an IEE but just get it done no matter what. You need to know with clarity what you are dealing with.

Opps, just saw this. I posted earlier about being confused about what the neuropsych said. Agree with this poster 100% . THE SCHOOL REPORT IS GARBAGE!!! Get a private evaluation stat.

I’m not ruling this out entirely. But I’m heavily leaning toward not doing the private evaluation.

We’ve already spent so much time and money, and frankly I think we’ve used up what limited good will our daughter had in cooperating with the school evaluation which took up a lot of her time, as well as the therapy sessions we have been forcing her to attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you looked at the autobiography called Sociopath by Patric Gagne?

Maybe it has something to offer you.


https://www.shannonwaiteauthor.com/blog/sociopath-a-book-review

"To put it very simply, sociopaths have a hard time experiencing emotions like the general public does because they have a limited emotional range, thus rarely feeling “learned” emotions (like love and guilt). Based on Gagne’s experience (and research), sociopaths will partake in antisocial behavior to try and feel something other than apathy.

Gagne’s introduction ends with, “I am a criminal without a record. A master of disguise. I have never been caught. I have rarely been sorry. I am friendly. I am responsible. I am invisible. I blend right in. I am a twenty-first century sociopath. And I’ve written this book because I know I’m not alone” (xvii)."

This really interesting as she said something really similar to her sibling yesterday. That basically humans don’t innately have emotions like love or guilt - that they are forced/taught onto humans. And she has said at other times that she has never truly felt sorry about anything, so when she says it, it is a lie.

Im terrified of reading this book because I don’t want to discover my daughter is a sociopath. Have I had that thought and wondered? Yes, many times. But I never settled on it as a truth. I believe she’s under the daily stress of being in flight or fight mode which makes her incapable of feeling anything other than anger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP--BTDT and I'm so sorry you're in this place now. I used to say that my son held our family hostage with his behavior. Everything had to be his way or he would throw a 2yr old style tantrum.

You've gotten some very good advice here. Your DD's behavior is impacting the entire family. Family therapy seems like a great next step. What stands out to me is that she is digging her heels in until she gets wants and she doesn't care who she steps on or hurts along the way.

Her community therapist is not the right person for this. It doesn't sound like your daughter is even ready for therapy. She needs to be in an environment where the rules are rules and no matter what she does, the rules don't change. My kid is at RICA. Most kids there go through a phase of not talking to the therapists, refusing school, lashing out, etc. The staff are not emotionally invested so the kid does what the kid does, but nothing changes about the requirements--let's say attending school. You can refuse to leave the cottage and not go to school. But the staff will physically remove you from your room and lock the door. You can sit in the hallway all day. The staff will engage with you only to ask: are you ready to go to school? There will be no electronics. If you want lunch, you need to go to the school (next building) to get it. No one is saying you won't be fed, but lunch is served at school. Once she accepts that she has to follow basic rules, she can then start to be a part of both individual and group therapy. Group therapy is fantastic for this because she will learn that she is not alone, what she feels is valid, and she will begin to learn from those that are ahead of her.

Your daughter is in crisis and is acting out in the only way that she knows to bring her comfort, by controlling what she can. In my case, it was my younger child. I ended up sending my older child to boarding school so she could have some semblance of a typical teenage life. She thrived there without constantly having to be forced to deal with the outcomes of her brothers behavior. Your concern about your daughter not being employable is valid. It speaks to the larger issue she's having---she needs to learn how to function in society. She will not be able to lash out at her co-workers or employer and maintain her job. Your job now as her parent is to accept that you have done the best that you can within the tools accessible to you in your current community. It's time now to look for a different community for her that can help her grow into the young woman that you know lives inside her.

This is HARD. Really, really hard. There is no parenting handbook for dealing with type of behavior. All you can do is find a community that can help her and help your family heal.

Best of luck.

Thanks so much for sharing your experience. It sounds like you were able to make a lot of pretty tough decisions. Hoping for the best for your family. Yes it’s so hard. I feel like we are at a crossroads for when things can either start to get really bad or we can start to make progress. Not sure yetwhat that road will look like for us.

[Anonymous]

New poster here.

Don't read the sociopath book.

You and your husband need immediate expert advice on how to handle her and probably therapy as well. I recommend finding a therapist that can do the parent part of DBT for Children with you. We have a similar DD and shifting our behavior even 10-20% made a big difference ultimately with her behavior. Our DD is much better now and I think that is due to 1. our learning how to manage her, 2. time and maturity, 3. therapy and DBT training that DD ultimately got.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you looked at the autobiography called Sociopath by Patric Gagne?

Maybe it has something to offer you.


https://www.shannonwaiteauthor.com/blog/sociopath-a-book-review

"To put it very simply, sociopaths have a hard time experiencing emotions like the general public does because they have a limited emotional range, thus rarely feeling “learned” emotions (like love and guilt). Based on Gagne’s experience (and research), sociopaths will partake in antisocial behavior to try and feel something other than apathy.

Gagne’s introduction ends with, “I am a criminal without a record. A master of disguise. I have never been caught. I have rarely been sorry. I am friendly. I am responsible. I am invisible. I blend right in. I am a twenty-first century sociopath. And I’ve written this book because I know I’m not alone” (xvii)."

This really interesting as she said something really similar to her sibling yesterday. That basically humans don’t innately have emotions like love or guilt - that they are forced/taught onto humans. And she has said at other times that she has never truly felt sorry about anything, so when she says it, it is a lie.

Im terrified of reading this book because I don’t want to discover my daughter is a sociopath. Have I had that thought and wondered? Yes, many times. But I never settled on it as a truth. I believe she’s under the daily stress of being in flight or fight mode which makes her incapable of feeling anything other than anger.

The other thing is that she says she experiences no fear. I don’t completely understand this. Id describe her as pretty fearless. And she is completely obsessed with horror. But she does have fears or anxiety about doctors- which she denies- she says she is just angry and visualizing hurting them. She just operates very differently.

[Anonymous]

DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New poster here.

Don't read the sociopath book.

You and your husband need immediate expert advice on how to handle her and probably therapy as well. I recommend finding a therapist that can do the parent part of DBT for Children with you. We have a similar DD and shifting our behavior even 10-20% made a big difference ultimately with her behavior. Our DD is much better now and I think that is due to 1. our learning how to manage her, 2. time and maturity, 3. therapy and DBT training that DD ultimately got.

I know nothing about DBT. Looking into it, it appears to be recommended for individuals who self harm or are suicidal, but I don’t think our daughter struggles with either of these. At least not yet. She externalizes everything. She takes no accountability. It’s all anger and blame directed at everyone around her. There is no inward anger. Do you still think it’s a solution for her?

We do plan on shifting to family therapy instead of individual therapy for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

The school evaluation determined she doesn’t quite meet the criteria for autism. I do honestly think it’s something that presents a lot like autism in many ways, but it’s different.

I think she likely has DH’s traits that are similar to autism- and some of the personality traits. But then she also has some of my adhd traits, which causes a lot of frustration for her because she knows she is smart and yet she gets easily stuck. And I think it’s the combination that is truly problematic. Because DH can’t be taught- he needs to figure out everything for himself. He has never let me teach him anything. He slept through all of his med school classes and yet was able to pass with flying colors because he had the ability because he’s a genius. She does not have that same ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

The school evaluation determined she doesn’t quite meet the criteria for autism. I do honestly think it’s something that presents a lot like autism in many ways, but it’s different.

I think she likely has DH’s traits that are similar to autism- and some of the personality traits. But then she also has some of my adhd traits, which causes a lot of frustration for her because she knows she is smart and yet she gets easily stuck. And I think it’s the combination that is truly problematic. Because DH can’t be taught- he needs to figure out everything for himself. He has never let me teach him anything. He slept through all of his med school classes and yet was able to pass with flying colors because he had the ability because he’s a genius. She does not have that same ability.

The school evaluation is not sufficient. You need a private autism screening like the ADOS-2. Trust me when I say from personal experience that undiagnosed ASD is rampant among doctors and their children. Stay in touch with his med school/residency friends and you’ll see…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

The school evaluation determined she doesn’t quite meet the criteria for autism. I do honestly think it’s something that presents a lot like autism in many ways, but it’s different.

I think she likely has DH’s traits that are similar to autism- and some of the personality traits. But then she also has some of my adhd traits, which causes a lot of frustration for her because she knows she is smart and yet she gets easily stuck. And I think it’s the combination that is truly problematic. Because DH can’t be taught- he needs to figure out everything for himself. He has never let me teach him anything. He slept through all of his med school classes and yet was able to pass with flying colors because he had the ability because he’s a genius. She does not have that same ability.

The school evaluation is not sufficient. You need a private autism screening like the ADOS-2. Trust me when I say from personal experience that undiagnosed ASD is rampant among doctors and their children. Stay in touch with his med school/residency friends and you’ll see…

All his friends from med school are divorced. They are definitely all ND and are different. But not sure autism fits. They are all very successful in their work life. I will think about the ADOS-2 but I think we need to wait at least another year. We’ve had so many healthcare expenses that’s not covered by insurance as well as other unforeseen costs. And I am pretty sure our daughter will not cooperate with yet another evaluation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and DD are both autistic. It’s really as simple as that. Get a full evaluation and move forward with the right tools.

The school evaluation determined she doesn’t quite meet the criteria for autism. I do honestly think it’s something that presents a lot like autism in many ways, but it’s different.

I think she likely has DH’s traits that are similar to autism- and some of the personality traits. But then she also has some of my adhd traits, which causes a lot of frustration for her because she knows she is smart and yet she gets easily stuck. And I think it’s the combination that is truly problematic. Because DH can’t be taught- he needs to figure out everything for himself. He has never let me teach him anything. He slept through all of his med school classes and yet was able to pass with flying colors because he had the ability because he’s a genius. She does not have that same ability.

The school evaluation is not sufficient. You need a private autism screening like the ADOS-2. Trust me when I say from personal experience that undiagnosed ASD is rampant among doctors and their children. Stay in touch with his med school/residency friends and you’ll see…

All his friends from med school are divorced. They are definitely all ND and are different. But not sure autism fits. They are all very successful in their work life. I will think about the ADOS-2 but I think we need to wait at least another year. We’ve had so many healthcare expenses that’s not covered by insurance as well as other unforeseen costs. And I am pretty sure our daughter will not cooperate with yet another evaluation.

Looking into it, I just saw that the test takes an hour or less so maybe it is something our daughter might cooperate for. Expensive, but maybe worthwhile if it turns out she actually has autism. Otherwise it would be a waste.

Also DH’s siblings all have certain struggles but they are all so different. All divorced. All very gifted and extremely successful in their work life. The one has remarried. I think people are just so different and hard to categorize. It does seem like very gifted individuals struggle more in other areas of their life. I am gifted as well but less so than DH, and I’ve definitely had my share of struggles.

[Anonymous]

Lady, she’s autistic. She’s not a sociopath, she sounds like a textbook autistic 14 yo (living horror is so common) and is behaving like autistic teens behave when they are under supported and incredibly anxious and feeling out of control. Others have successfully walked this path before. You have gotten some pretty good advice on this thread - a strong IEP, DBT therapy, a neuropsych evaluation for her, a psychiatrist for meds. Also therapy for you. You seem resistant to some of the good suggestions offered - I realize you are tired overwhelmed but take some baby steps. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

*loving horror*