DH's angry parenting is ruining our family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the helpful responses. As to the divorce depabte, ther eality is that the courts award 50% custody by default unless there is serious documented physical abuse, which our situation doesn't qualify as. He has never thrown anything at our child like a PP suggested. He has for example thrown her backpack angrily down the stairs when she won't get ready for school. But that's why I photographed the mark, to start compiling evidence in case we do get to divorce territory someday. But just one photo of a red mark won't alter the 50% default. That's why I'm not divorcing; I refuse to give up my kids. It's easy to say "Oh I'd never let my husband do that, he'd be gone in a heartbeat" until you actually think it through and look up divorce laws. I do think I can get him to make the effort to change, because I've pulled away from him physically and emotionally, and he'll want to change that, even if he won't change for his kids.

And yes, his father was angry irritable and physical as well, so that's a factor. Turns out he had undiagnosed depression for my DH's whole childhood, so I that's why I think that's a possibility for DH. NOw his dad is on meds and way more calm.

Thanks for the recommendation for the PEP class, I'll definitely look into that.

Also, I'm not a permissive parent; we have several tools that I use to enforce loving boundaries, including 1-2-3- timeout, saying "try again", natural consequences, etc. My husband always forgets to use them no matter how many times I remind him. I'm not perfect either; I have yelled at my kids on occasion, though I'm generally pretty even-keeled. But even when I yell, I apologize profusely and repair the relationship. That's one of DH's big problems, is he never repairs adequately, so the hurts keep mounting.

Ugh

I doubt she’s doing that on purpose. Pulling away is natural in this kind of situation.

I imagine the PP was grossed out by the thought that a man would change his behavior because he wasn't getting any rather than because he was destroying his children.

Precisely

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was the purpose in taking a photo? Who were you going to show it to?

Collecting evidence in these situations is smart. If it doesn’t continue, it’s fine. If it does continue or it escalates, you’ll be glad you documented.

No, it was a terrible idea.

It was a brilliant idea if it escalates to divorce and she doesn’t want him to be alone with the kids.

OP - I wou have done the same. Get photos and hope it gets better. Expect better, prepare for the worst - it’s just life.

[Anonymous]

Totally relate OP. My DH was also the "calm" one before we had our kid.

Those are such tough ages as well.

My DH has gotten a lot better after many very serious conversations between us. He is actually a great father most of the time. He doesn't handle stress well and takes it out on our child, though has child is getting older he is less stressed so I think that is helping a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes!
Did you and your husband plan and discus having children?

Can’t believe divorce isn’t an option for a physically violent man who lashes out on his own kids

Is he abusive w you?

I'm a PP whose DH became easily frustrated with our kids.

You don't know what kind of parent you will be until you have kids. It also depends on the kid's temperament. Some kids are easier than others.

And IMO, rough handling your child is not necessarily abusive in the legal sense. IMO breaking up a family over this incident (or a few others) without trying to work on your parenting is not the answer.

I call BS - I knew exactly what kind of parent I wanted to be when I had kids. I knew 10 years before I had kids and 5 years before I met my husband. I played a HUGE role in choosing a husband. We both took parenting classes before and after our fist was born. Two kids are adults and 2 are teens and yes - we are the parents we thought we would be. We were always in the same page. And YES parenting can be difficult, frustrating, and challenging - which is when you have to rely on each other most.

I’m flabbergasted at people like you who get married and have kids - the biggest life impacting decision you will ever make - without giving it much thought. If you don’t think about this what on earth do you put thought into?

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. If everything worked out for you exactly the way you expected, great, but that's not the case for a lot of people and it's not because they don't know what kind of parent they want to be.

I’m the PP you responded to - and it sounds like OP was “punched in the face” - she said her husband changed after kids. She didn’t say she changed her values. HE changed in an abusive ugly way - which is grounds for divorce. She could have had those conversations and he lied for all we know. But I think people who don’t discuss how they will parent and don’t put thought into how kids will change your life BEFORE marriage are complete and total idiots. Sure a few people will lie for whatever reason about who they are - most won’t. My guess is you didn’t give much thought to kids and I’m sorry for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the helpful responses. As to the divorce depabte, ther eality is that the courts award 50% custody by default unless there is serious documented physical abuse, which our situation doesn't qualify as. He has never thrown anything at our child like a PP suggested. He has for example thrown her backpack angrily down the stairs when she won't get ready for school. But that's why I photographed the mark, to start compiling evidence in case we do get to divorce territory someday. But just one photo of a red mark won't alter the 50% default. That's why I'm not divorcing; I refuse to give up my kids. It's easy to say "Oh I'd never let my husband do that, he'd be gone in a heartbeat" until you actually think it through and look up divorce laws. I do think I can get him to make the effort to change, because I've pulled away from him physically and emotionally, and he'll want to change that, even if he won't change for his kids.

And yes, his father was angry irritable and physical as well, so that's a factor. Turns out he had undiagnosed depression for my DH's whole childhood, so I that's why I think that's a possibility for DH. NOw his dad is on meds and way more calm.

Thanks for the recommendation for the PEP class, I'll definitely look into that.

Also, I'm not a permissive parent; we have several tools that I use to enforce loving boundaries, including 1-2-3- timeout, saying "try again", natural consequences, etc. My husband always forgets to use them no matter how many times I remind him. I'm not perfect either; I have yelled at my kids on occasion, though I'm generally pretty even-keeled. But even when I yell, I apologize profusely and repair the relationship. That's one of DH's big problems, is he never repairs adequately, so the hurts keep mounting.

OP I think it would be really helpful for you to get individual therapy with a family systems therapist to sort out what you can do and cannot do. You have to distinguish between the things you can’t accept (like the grabbing/throwing/being scary) and your DH not parenting the way you think is best. There will be a lot you let go, but also some things you have to stand absolutely firm on.

Here is my story. My exDH was similarly short tempered and put his hands on our kid and was scary. His own father had been physically abusive as well and his mother not abusive but a spanker (like no grandma I will not “pop” the toddler on the hand for being naughty.) ExDH refused any sort of parent training (he attended but did not pay attention/argued with the therapist) so I just attended myself and learned how to properly discipline (I was inconsistent and too permissive and our kid did have difficult behaviors).

I was very concerned about exDH’s interactions with our child when he was younger (maybe starting around 4). Any time that I saw him do anything physical (for example physically stop DC from getting up when they were doing homework together) I was right there in exDH’s face, stopping the interaction or watching like a hawk. exDH knew very very clearly (because I made it clear) that he could not get away with anything physical on my watch.

While this was happening there were many other parenting issues I disagreed with. DH never used any of the parenting tools I learned, he wouldn’t do things like “validate emotions,” could be short with DC, etc etc. Later on our DC had some bigger emotional issues and DH’s response was basically a variety of “be a man and buck up!” And DH can be sort of harsh about DC’s shortcomings. So yeah not exactly a follower of Dr Becky.

But … I had to force myself eventually to let go of trying to micromanage anything about their relationship except the things that were truly non-negotiable: no physical violence, feed the kid, get kid to bed at a reasonable hour.

Over time DC calmed down and DH stopped getting angry. part of this was DH avoiding anything difficult with DC and DC learning DH’s limits. Anything difficult (like chores etc) was left to me. Also over time it became apparent to me that DH had his own way and gifts he brought to DC as a parent (a type of unconditional love that DC knows is there) and lots of other stuff that would be too long to list here. I did have to give up my notion that I knew the best way to parent or that “good parenting” by definition means always overthinking things or applying a method.

At the end of the day exDH and DC have a sort of old-school father-son relationship - warm but not emotionally deep, with a lot of distance between them in terms of actual demands on each other. Like bros lol.

Oh and we got divorced because exDH was a d*ck to me and I got sick of him.

NP how did you convince your DH to stop the rough handling / throwing? My DH does that to our child when he gets escalated. Like OP he has not thrown stuff at the kid but has thrown stuff to the wall, down the stairs, etc when child did not want to do stuff or was yelling. But I talked to him multiple times and he will not stop. If anything he does the same thing to me. These things though don’t matter in a divorce so that’s why I stay.

I physically stand there and say “DH do NOT touch DC.” Then I hover. I don’t talk to him about it but respond in the moment. The only thing I said not in the moment is “I will call 911 if you touch me or kid, and you know I will.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes!
Did you and your husband plan and discus having children?

Can’t believe divorce isn’t an option for a physically violent man who lashes out on his own kids

Is he abusive w you?

I'm a PP whose DH became easily frustrated with our kids.

You don't know what kind of parent you will be until you have kids. It also depends on the kid's temperament. Some kids are easier than others.

And IMO, rough handling your child is not necessarily abusive in the legal sense. IMO breaking up a family over this incident (or a few others) without trying to work on your parenting is not the answer.

I call BS - I knew exactly what kind of parent I wanted to be when I had kids. I knew 10 years before I had kids and 5 years before I met my husband. I played a HUGE role in choosing a husband. We both took parenting classes before and after our fist was born. Two kids are adults and 2 are teens and yes - we are the parents we thought we would be. We were always in the same page. And YES parenting can be difficult, frustrating, and challenging - which is when you have to rely on each other most.

I’m flabbergasted at people like you who get married and have kids - the biggest life impacting decision you will ever make - without giving it much thought. If you don’t think about this what on earth do you put thought into?

There’s lots of naive idiots out there Pp.

They don’t know what they don’t know, and they can’t figure it out either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the helpful responses. As to the divorce depabte, ther eality is that the courts award 50% custody by default unless there is serious documented physical abuse, which our situation doesn't qualify as. He has never thrown anything at our child like a PP suggested. He has for example thrown her backpack angrily down the stairs when she won't get ready for school. But that's why I photographed the mark, to start compiling evidence in case we do get to divorce territory someday. But just one photo of a red mark won't alter the 50% default. That's why I'm not divorcing; I refuse to give up my kids. It's easy to say "Oh I'd never let my husband do that, he'd be gone in a heartbeat" until you actually think it through and look up divorce laws. I do think I can get him to make the effort to change, because I've pulled away from him physically and emotionally, and he'll want to change that, even if he won't change for his kids.

And yes, his father was angry irritable and physical as well, so that's a factor. Turns out he had undiagnosed depression for my DH's whole childhood, so I that's why I think that's a possibility for DH. NOw his dad is on meds and way more calm.

Thanks for the recommendation for the PEP class, I'll definitely look into that.

Also, I'm not a permissive parent; we have several tools that I use to enforce loving boundaries, including 1-2-3- timeout, saying "try again", natural consequences, etc. My husband always forgets to use them no matter how many times I remind him. I'm not perfect either; I have yelled at my kids on occasion, though I'm generally pretty even-keeled. But even when I yell, I apologize profusely and repair the relationship. That's one of DH's big problems, is he never repairs adequately, so the hurts keep mounting.

Ugh

I doubt she’s doing that on purpose. Pulling away is natural in this kind of situation.

I imagine the PP was grossed out by the thought that a man would change his behavior because he wasn't getting any rather than because he was destroying his children.

Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Leave him before he ruins your whole life and that of your children. He will not ask or want 50/50 and even if he does he will not abide by it. You will live in peace.

Don’t listen to this advice.

I stayed in a scary marriage because the reality was that I knew if I left my kids would be in even more danger without me to run interference and intervene. One day exDH lost it after a huge raise and was like, eff this listening to you, I’m out, and filed for a divorce.

Everyone assured me he would never even want 50/50 custody, and then two weeks later he filed for even more, and has been fighting for it ever since.

I’ve learned a LOT about his parents and siblings in the meantime and it helps me to understand why he’s scrambling to “win” and “save face.”

You cannot assume someone like this will leave you alone. The same shame and reactivity that made them volatile when the kids trigger them will very likely escalate into post-separation abuse if they have the legal system to validate them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes!
Did you and your husband plan and discus having children?

Can’t believe divorce isn’t an option for a physically violent man who lashes out on his own kids

Is he abusive w you?

I'm a PP whose DH became easily frustrated with our kids.

You don't know what kind of parent you will be until you have kids. It also depends on the kid's temperament. Some kids are easier than others.

And IMO, rough handling your child is not necessarily abusive in the legal sense. IMO breaking up a family over this incident (or a few others) without trying to work on your parenting is not the answer.

I call BS - I knew exactly what kind of parent I wanted to be when I had kids. I knew 10 years before I had kids and 5 years before I met my husband. I played a HUGE role in choosing a husband. We both took parenting classes before and after our fist was born. Two kids are adults and 2 are teens and yes - we are the parents we thought we would be. We were always in the same page. And YES parenting can be difficult, frustrating, and challenging - which is when you have to rely on each other most.

I’m flabbergasted at people like you who get married and have kids - the biggest life impacting decision you will ever make - without giving it much thought. If you don’t think about this what on earth do you put thought into?

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. If everything worked out for you exactly the way you expected, great, but that's not the case for a lot of people and it's not because they don't know what kind of parent they want to be.

I’m the PP you responded to - and it sounds like OP was “punched in the face” - she said her husband changed after kids. She didn’t say she changed her values. HE changed in an abusive ugly way - which is grounds for divorce. She could have had those conversations and he lied for all we know. But I think people who don’t discuss how they will parent and don’t put thought into how kids will change your life BEFORE marriage are complete and total idiots. Sure a few people will lie for whatever reason about who they are - most won’t. My guess is you didn’t give much thought to kids and I’m sorry for you.

You have no idea how many people think about it, discuss it, or lie. It worked out for you and you want to think that's something besides luck because it's easier to be smug than acknowledge there are a lot of things out of our control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leave him before he ruins your whole life and that of your children. He will not ask or want 50/50 and even if he does he will not abide by it. You will live in peace.

Don’t listen to this advice.

I stayed in a scary marriage because the reality was that I knew if I left my kids would be in even more danger without me to run interference and intervene. One day exDH lost it after a huge raise and was like, eff this listening to you, I’m out, and filed for a divorce.

Everyone assured me he would never even want 50/50 custody, and then two weeks later he filed for even more, and has been fighting for it ever since.

I’ve learned a LOT about his parents and siblings in the meantime and it helps me to understand why he’s scrambling to “win” and “save face.”

You cannot assume someone like this will leave you alone. The same shame and reactivity that made them volatile when the kids trigger them will very likely escalate into post-separation abuse if they have the legal system to validate them.

+100

I’m not saying that divorce still may not be the best option- but you pretty much have to assume 50/50 custody. They don’t want to pay child support, and they want to save face. It isn’t socially acceptable to just be a “Saturday outing dad” due to divorce anymore. You have to assume the kids will spend 50% of their time either alone with him and/or whoever else he wants them to spend time with (in-laws, new love interests or girlfriends and so on).

Again, not saying divorce may not still be the best option (and anyone in this position should absolutely speak to an attorney) but stories about getting full or majority custody are not always realistic. You pretty much have to have documented proof that he is physically harming the kids. And even that sometimes is not enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leave him before he ruins your whole life and that of your children. He will not ask or want 50/50 and even if he does he will not abide by it. You will live in peace.

Don’t listen to this advice.

I stayed in a scary marriage because the reality was that I knew if I left my kids would be in even more danger without me to run interference and intervene. One day exDH lost it after a huge raise and was like, eff this listening to you, I’m out, and filed for a divorce.

Everyone assured me he would never even want 50/50 custody, and then two weeks later he filed for even more, and has been fighting for it ever since.

I’ve learned a LOT about his parents and siblings in the meantime and it helps me to understand why he’s scrambling to “win” and “save face.”

You cannot assume someone like this will leave you alone. The same shame and reactivity that made them volatile when the kids trigger them will very likely escalate into post-separation abuse if they have the legal system to validate them.

I’m so sorry you are going through this, PP. I’m hoping you and your kids will come out in a good place at the end. It is really astonishing how a lot of people have a death grip on their self-image, isn’t it?

[Anonymous]

WTF is a scary marriage
Who TF is in one?

Yeah - NO!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes!
Did you and your husband plan and discus having children?

Can’t believe divorce isn’t an option for a physically violent man who lashes out on his own kids

Is he abusive w you?

I'm a PP whose DH became easily frustrated with our kids.

You don't know what kind of parent you will be until you have kids. It also depends on the kid's temperament. Some kids are easier than others.

And IMO, rough handling your child is not necessarily abusive in the legal sense. IMO breaking up a family over this incident (or a few others) without trying to work on your parenting is not the answer.

I call BS - I knew exactly what kind of parent I wanted to be when I had kids. I knew 10 years before I had kids and 5 years before I met my husband. I played a HUGE role in choosing a husband. We both took parenting classes before and after our fist was born. Two kids are adults and 2 are teens and yes - we are the parents we thought we would be. We were always in the same page. And YES parenting can be difficult, frustrating, and challenging - which is when you have to rely on each other most.

I’m flabbergasted at people like you who get married and have kids - the biggest life impacting decision you will ever make - without giving it much thought. If you don’t think about this what on earth do you put thought into?

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. If everything worked out for you exactly the way you expected, great, but that's not the case for a lot of people and it's not because they don't know what kind of parent they want to be.

I’m the PP you responded to - and it sounds like OP was “punched in the face” - she said her husband changed after kids. She didn’t say she changed her values. HE changed in an abusive ugly way - which is grounds for divorce. She could have had those conversations and he lied for all we know. But I think people who don’t discuss how they will parent and don’t put thought into how kids will change your life BEFORE marriage are complete and total idiots. Sure a few people will lie for whatever reason about who they are - most won’t. My guess is you didn’t give much thought to kids and I’m sorry for you.

You have no idea how many people think about it, discuss it, or lie. It worked out for you and you want to think that's something besides luck because it's easier to be smug than acknowledge there are a lot of things out of our control.

Learn the difference between smug and smart - I know they are both “s” words

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes!
Did you and your husband plan and discus having children?

Can’t believe divorce isn’t an option for a physically violent man who lashes out on his own kids

Is he abusive w you?

I'm a PP whose DH became easily frustrated with our kids.

You don't know what kind of parent you will be until you have kids. It also depends on the kid's temperament. Some kids are easier than others.

And IMO, rough handling your child is not necessarily abusive in the legal sense. IMO breaking up a family over this incident (or a few others) without trying to work on your parenting is not the answer.

I call BS - I knew exactly what kind of parent I wanted to be when I had kids. I knew 10 years before I had kids and 5 years before I met my husband. I played a HUGE role in choosing a husband. We both took parenting classes before and after our fist was born. Two kids are adults and 2 are teens and yes - we are the parents we thought we would be. We were always in the same page. And YES parenting can be difficult, frustrating, and challenging - which is when you have to rely on each other most.

I’m flabbergasted at people like you who get married and have kids - the biggest life impacting decision you will ever make - without giving it much thought. If you don’t think about this what on earth do you put thought into?

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. If everything worked out for you exactly the way you expected, great, but that's not the case for a lot of people and it's not because they don't know what kind of parent they want to be.

I’m the PP you responded to - and it sounds like OP was “punched in the face” - she said her husband changed after kids. She didn’t say she changed her values. HE changed in an abusive ugly way - which is grounds for divorce. She could have had those conversations and he lied for all we know. But I think people who don’t discuss how they will parent and don’t put thought into how kids will change your life BEFORE marriage are complete and total idiots. Sure a few people will lie for whatever reason about who they are - most won’t. My guess is you didn’t give much thought to kids and I’m sorry for you.

You have no idea how many people think about it, discuss it, or lie. It worked out for you and you want to think that's something besides luck because it's easier to be smug than acknowledge there are a lot of things out of our control.

Learn the difference between smug and smart - I know they are both “s” words

Why are people such a*sholes? I swear there are pathetic women who come here to make themselves feel good but telling others that what they are going through is their own fault and whether or not they it is remotely possible to know that. My SIL is going through the divorce from hell right now and my ex-BIL was not my favorite person but everyone is completely shocked and horrified by what he was apparently capable of. He fooled EVERYONE for a long, long, time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes!
Did you and your husband plan and discus having children?

Can’t believe divorce isn’t an option for a physically violent man who lashes out on his own kids

Is he abusive w you?

I'm a PP whose DH became easily frustrated with our kids.

You don't know what kind of parent you will be until you have kids. It also depends on the kid's temperament. Some kids are easier than others.

And IMO, rough handling your child is not necessarily abusive in the legal sense. IMO breaking up a family over this incident (or a few others) without trying to work on your parenting is not the answer.

I call BS - I knew exactly what kind of parent I wanted to be when I had kids. I knew 10 years before I had kids and 5 years before I met my husband. I played a HUGE role in choosing a husband. We both took parenting classes before and after our fist was born. Two kids are adults and 2 are teens and yes - we are the parents we thought we would be. We were always in the same page. And YES parenting can be difficult, frustrating, and challenging - which is when you have to rely on each other most.

I’m flabbergasted at people like you who get married and have kids - the biggest life impacting decision you will ever make - without giving it much thought. If you don’t think about this what on earth do you put thought into?

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. If everything worked out for you exactly the way you expected, great, but that's not the case for a lot of people and it's not because they don't know what kind of parent they want to be.

I’m the PP you responded to - and it sounds like OP was “punched in the face” - she said her husband changed after kids. She didn’t say she changed her values. HE changed in an abusive ugly way - which is grounds for divorce. She could have had those conversations and he lied for all we know. But I think people who don’t discuss how they will parent and don’t put thought into how kids will change your life BEFORE marriage are complete and total idiots. Sure a few people will lie for whatever reason about who they are - most won’t. My guess is you didn’t give much thought to kids and I’m sorry for you.

You have no idea how many people think about it, discuss it, or lie. It worked out for you and you want to think that's something besides luck because it's easier to be smug than acknowledge there are a lot of things out of our control.

Learn the difference between smug and smart - I know they are both “s” words

Why are people such a*sholes? I swear there are pathetic women who come here to make themselves feel good but telling others that what they are going through is their own fault and whether or not they it is remotely possible to know that. My SIL is going through the divorce from hell right now and my ex-BIL was not my favorite person but everyone is completely shocked and horrified by what he was apparently capable of. He fooled EVERYONE for a long, long, time.

They are insecure narcissists. That person came on here to victim blame OP and to feel superior to others. It’s just classic narc behavior. In any event, people who act like this will always experience karma in some form or another in the future. How does the saying go? Your words will come back to haunt you in the future?