DH's angry parenting is ruining our family

[Anonymous]

“ until a few years ago we had a fairytale marriage with no stress and very few arguments”

“ I apologize profusely and repair the relationship”

I think you have been a pushover in this marriage, and that’s why it was fairytale early on. I think your accommodation to your DH masked the fact that he does not handle conflict well. No arguments is actually a red flag in a marriage.

Was anyone in your family abusive or an addict? Read up on fawning.

Your DH definitely has serious problems, but you need to root out your own moving forward.

[Anonymous]

A little similar here...my DH and I are both from the same culture that is quite patriarchal and where corporal punishment is very normalized. He grew up in an emotionally, and potentially abusive household. I was also hit with belts, had my mouth washed out with soap, etc. My DH is very laid back but something about those toddler/preschool years really brought out the worst in him- there were a few instances where he went too far (nothing crazy, but too far for my comfort zone). Anyway, what I did once was video him losing his temper and I think he scared himself and was so ashamed-he's never had any issues with losing control or his temper since and it's maybe been 5 years or so? He also did not need therapy or meds because he quickly got his act together and did some major self reflection and soul searching and contemplation about his own childhood. This situation may not be the norm, but just wanted to offer you my experience. I do agree that he should be looking into therapy, meds,and definitely parenting and anger management classes. Also, older kids are much easier in a lot of ways- those toddler years can really bring out the worst in a lot of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and I have been married for 13 years, with two kids, DS3 and DD6. He has always been a thoughtful and caring husband and until a few years ago we had a fairytale marriage with no stress and very few arguments. Until we had kids. When our first hit the terrible two's my amazing kind husband turned into someone I didn't recognize sometimes. He will get easily irritated and annoyed by our daughter over common little kid discipline issues. (It's always our daughter... our son is a really easygoing kid so far.) He always needs to have the final say and can be sarcastic and demeaning. Worst of all he's physically intimidated her by throwing her things when he's angry, or handling her roughly out of impatience/frustration (like picking her up and moving her roughly if she refuses to move.) He's not like this all the time of course, but when he's angry and annoyed he can't handle it. I've tried so hard to help him come up with strategies and tools to help him parent better, but he never remembers to use them.

Anyways, recently he grabbed my daughter to move her out of the way when he was on the phone and she wouldn't quiet down. It left a red mark on her arm for an hour, which I photographed. I'm not even sure he would have apologized to her afterwards if I hadn't made him. That was a turning point for me and I've realized I've lost the trust and respect and love I've had for him. When he tries to get physically close to me, all I feel is disgust. Who can hurt their own child?

Obviously I am going to require him to get counseling, anger management and also get evaluated for depression and hopefully get on some meds. I am going to keep my daughter safe so that this will never happen again. I am not entertaining the idea of divorce since there's no way I'd let him have 50% custody and not be there to protect my kids. I'm wondering if anyone else has been here and had counseling / meds / intervention work and help your DH become a better parent? Is there any coming back from this? As for the posters who always chime in with "you knew this about him and married him" -- no I did not, there was never any inkling of this kind of behavior before kids. He was even an amazing, playful uncle. I was totally blindsided.

The way you phrased this makes me believe that he is acknowledging that what he's doing is wrong, he is willing to seek help to address it, but then he is failing to follow through - is that the case? If so, I think there's hope because admitting you have a problem is the first step (I know that sounds so AA but I think it applies elsewhere). Did you show him the picture? I am not a therapist so I would consult with one, but if I saw physical evidence of an injury I had inflicted on my child, that would cut me so deep. I imagine in the moment he didn't realize it (I am NOT excusing his behavior, by the way), and in the aftermath his brain could probably come up with a different version of events because that's what it does to protect us sometimes, but at a later time if he saw that picture I wonder if it would slap some sense into him (metaphorically, obviously, I'm not suggesting physical violence on your part). Good luck, OP, and well done protecting your kids. My husband wishes his mom had done the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You don't know what kind of parent you will be until you have kids.

Not if you foster kids. You won't expect to be exactly the same parent, but you'll have a better idea.

suggesting someone with anger issues should foster before considering having their own biological children is some kind of insanity. Foster kids are not experiments. WTF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry. Your husband’s behavior is inexcusable and a complete turn off.

Since divorce isn’t an option. Best of luck to you and your kids

Boy, what a silly and unhelpful answer. These divorce-your-dh nutjobs never appreciate that marriage, family, and parenting is not always a walk in the park; husbands and wives are also learning, growing, through the years, and bring their experiences to a relationship. Alas, even ans andults, we are not always perfect.

Throwing “divorce” on the table every time there is a relationship challenge, is not helpful for creating and sustaining healthy relationships. Presumaly, if you married someone, it was to live a life together, through the ups and downs of love…

PP, if everything in your life is so disposable, you are simply a fair-weather friend. Be gone with you…

Maybe I am a “divorce your DH nut job” but anyone who physically harms my child is a deal breaker. Why is it ok / acceptable to divorce if your spouse betrays you by cheating, but not ok if they betray your child, who you are supposed to protect at all costs, by harming them? I had a very difficult, stubborn child who has recently been diagnosed with Autism and there has never, ever been a situation where hurting them like some of these pps described was justified. If anyone, including my DH, left marks on my child, smashed furniture, hit walls, kicked their chair! Or threw things at them, I would call the police. Document what is happening, get a good lawyer, and fight like hell for them.

I appreciate your instincts to protect your children at all costs. Respectfully, the situation is a lot more difficult than you seem to comprehend. I don't know why I'm bothering to say this to you because you'll accuse me of being a sympathizer of the abuser, and I'm not. The point is, OP came on her asking for help to try to keep her family together and give her kids the dad they deserve, so lawyering up and becoming antagonistic isn't what she is looking to do. When she's looking for your opinion, I imagine she'll ask for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I have been married for 13 years, with two kids, DS3 and DD6. He has always been a thoughtful and caring husband and until a few years ago we had a fairytale marriage with no stress and very few arguments. Until we had kids. When our first hit the terrible two's my amazing kind husband turned into someone I didn't recognize sometimes. He will get easily irritated and annoyed by our daughter over common little kid discipline issues. (It's always our daughter... our son is a really easygoing kid so far.) He always needs to have the final say and can be sarcastic and demeaning. Worst of all he's physically intimidated her by throwing her things when he's angry, or handling her roughly out of impatience/frustration (like picking her up and moving her roughly if she refuses to move.) He's not like this all the time of course, but when he's angry and annoyed he can't handle it. I've tried so hard to help him come up with strategies and tools to help him parent better, but he never remembers to use them.

Anyways, recently he grabbed my daughter to move her out of the way when he was on the phone and she wouldn't quiet down. It left a red mark on her arm for an hour, which I photographed. I'm not even sure he would have apologized to her afterwards if I hadn't made him. That was a turning point for me and I've realized I've lost the trust and respect and love I've had for him. When he tries to get physically close to me, all I feel is disgust. Who can hurt their own child?

Obviously I am going to require him to get counseling, anger management and also get evaluated for depression and hopefully get on some meds. I am going to keep my daughter safe so that this will never happen again. I am not entertaining the idea of divorce since there's no way I'd let him have 50% custody and not be there to protect my kids. I'm wondering if anyone else has been here and had counseling / meds / intervention work and help your DH become a better parent? Is there any coming back from this? As for the posters who always chime in with "you knew this about him and married him" -- no I did not, there was never any inkling of this kind of behavior before kids. He was even an amazing, playful uncle. I was totally blindsided.

Which you photographed? Why the hell did you do that? Do you think you are gathering “evidence?” To what end? Divorce and custody fight? Jail? WTAF. I get that everyone here wants to cast themselves in a good light but holy shit was that an escalation and provocation that suggests maybe you aren’t the angel you claim to be.

And another thing, you aren’t going to “require” him to do anything. There’s another clue that you aren’t the angel. Rather it sounds like you are equally an angry person and there’s dysfunction in this marriage that is playing out for the kids to see.

You are correct that it sounds like you both could benefit from parenting classes. I am sure you believe you don’t, which would be yet another clue you do.

And marriage counseling.

But holy shit if you are documenting things like you think you are Nancy Drew, you better know for what purpose.

Sounds like someone is afraid of having their actions be documented.

OP, ignore this loon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes!
Did you and your husband plan and discus having children?

Can’t believe divorce isn’t an option for a physically violent man who lashes out on his own kids

Is he abusive w you?

I'm a PP whose DH became easily frustrated with our kids.

You don't know what kind of parent you will be until you have kids. It also depends on the kid's temperament. Some kids are easier than others.

And IMO, rough handling your child is not necessarily abusive in the legal sense. IMO breaking up a family over this incident (or a few others) without trying to work on your parenting is not the answer.

I call BS - I knew exactly what kind of parent I wanted to be when I had kids. I knew 10 years before I had kids and 5 years before I met my husband. I played a HUGE role in choosing a husband. We both took parenting classes before and after our fist was born. Two kids are adults and 2 are teens and yes - we are the parents we thought we would be. We were always in the same page. And YES parenting can be difficult, frustrating, and challenging - which is when you have to rely on each other most.

I’m flabbergasted at people like you who get married and have kids - the biggest life impacting decision you will ever make - without giving it much thought. If you don’t think about this what on earth do you put thought into?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the helpful responses. As to the divorce depabte, ther eality is that the courts award 50% custody by default unless there is serious documented physical abuse, which our situation doesn't qualify as. He has never thrown anything at our child like a PP suggested. He has for example thrown her backpack angrily down the stairs when she won't get ready for school. But that's why I photographed the mark, to start compiling evidence in case we do get to divorce territory someday. But just one photo of a red mark won't alter the 50% default. That's why I'm not divorcing; I refuse to give up my kids. It's easy to say "Oh I'd never let my husband do that, he'd be gone in a heartbeat" until you actually think it through and look up divorce laws. I do think I can get him to make the effort to change, because I've pulled away from him physically and emotionally, and he'll want to change that, even if he won't change for his kids.

And yes, his father was angry irritable and physical as well, so that's a factor. Turns out he had undiagnosed depression for my DH's whole childhood, so I that's why I think that's a possibility for DH. NOw his dad is on meds and way more calm.

Thanks for the recommendation for the PEP class, I'll definitely look into that.

Also, I'm not a permissive parent; we have several tools that I use to enforce loving boundaries, including 1-2-3- timeout, saying "try again", natural consequences, etc. My husband always forgets to use them no matter how many times I remind him. I'm not perfect either; I have yelled at my kids on occasion, though I'm generally pretty even-keeled. But even when I yell, I apologize profusely and repair the relationship. That's one of DH's big problems, is he never repairs adequately, so the hurts keep mounting.

OP, I hear you. I'm watching my friend go through this right now (in VA, not sure where you are) and it is mind boggling to me what the courts do and do not care about. I'm a lawyer and that is NOT how things work in my area of the law and I'm just shocked to see how family court operates (I've been to multiple hearings with my friend just as a support). I think you're doing the right thing and I wish you the best. Just tune out/ignore the crazy keyboard warriors who have no idea what they're talking about. For perspective, I read an article about the avalanche near Tahoe this morning (I grew up there so the story has hit me hard) and a bunch of commenters were lashing out at the ski school the kids of the moms attended. The ski school had nothing to do with the moms' trip, it's just how they knew each other because their kids attended it. But nonetheless, all these people who are apparently incapable of reading or clear thoughts were angrily posting that the ski school should be shut down. These are the same people who post on DCUM, so just scroll right on past any post you find that says what you quoted. They don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the helpful responses. As to the divorce depabte, ther eality is that the courts award 50% custody by default unless there is serious documented physical abuse, which our situation doesn't qualify as. He has never thrown anything at our child like a PP suggested. He has for example thrown her backpack angrily down the stairs when she won't get ready for school. But that's why I photographed the mark, to start compiling evidence in case we do get to divorce territory someday. But just one photo of a red mark won't alter the 50% default. That's why I'm not divorcing; I refuse to give up my kids. It's easy to say "Oh I'd never let my husband do that, he'd be gone in a heartbeat" until you actually think it through and look up divorce laws. I do think I can get him to make the effort to change, because I've pulled away from him physically and emotionally, and he'll want to change that, even if he won't change for his kids.

And yes, his father was angry irritable and physical as well, so that's a factor. Turns out he had undiagnosed depression for my DH's whole childhood, so I that's why I think that's a possibility for DH. NOw his dad is on meds and way more calm.

Thanks for the recommendation for the PEP class, I'll definitely look into that.

Also, I'm not a permissive parent; we have several tools that I use to enforce loving boundaries, including 1-2-3- timeout, saying "try again", natural consequences, etc. My husband always forgets to use them no matter how many times I remind him. I'm not perfect either; I have yelled at my kids on occasion, though I'm generally pretty even-keeled. But even when I yell, I apologize profusely and repair the relationship. That's one of DH's big problems, is he never repairs adequately, so the hurts keep mounting.

Ugh

I doubt she’s doing that on purpose. Pulling away is natural in this kind of situation.

I imagine the PP was grossed out by the thought that a man would change his behavior because he wasn't getting any rather than because he was destroying his children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry. Your husband’s behavior is inexcusable and a complete turn off.

Since divorce isn’t an option. Best of luck to you and your kids

Boy, what a silly and unhelpful answer. These divorce-your-dh nutjobs never appreciate that marriage, family, and parenting is not always a walk in the park; husbands and wives are also learning, growing, through the years, and bring their experiences to a relationship. Alas, even ans andults, we are not always perfect.

Throwing “divorce” on the table every time there is a relationship challenge, is not helpful for creating and sustaining healthy relationships. Presumaly, if you married someone, it was to live a life together, through the ups and downs of love…

PP, if everything in your life is so disposable, you are simply a fair-weather friend. Be gone with you…

“Worst of all he's physically intimidated her by throwing her things when he's angry, or handling her roughly out of impatience/frustration (like picking her up and moving her roughly if she refuses to move”

Ma’am OPs husbands actions w his daughter are FAR from a relationship issue.

However, you do you.

Well because these actions are not deemed serious enough physical abuse in the eyes of family court and he would get shared custody. And the kid would then be alone with him and she would not be around to keep it in check. I am in that situation and it’s a living purgatory.

I'm so sorry, PP.

[Anonymous]

Most men suck. Better to bet alone, happy and free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the helpful responses. As to the divorce depabte, ther eality is that the courts award 50% custody by default unless there is serious documented physical abuse, which our situation doesn't qualify as. He has never thrown anything at our child like a PP suggested. He has for example thrown her backpack angrily down the stairs when she won't get ready for school. But that's why I photographed the mark, to start compiling evidence in case we do get to divorce territory someday. But just one photo of a red mark won't alter the 50% default. That's why I'm not divorcing; I refuse to give up my kids. It's easy to say "Oh I'd never let my husband do that, he'd be gone in a heartbeat" until you actually think it through and look up divorce laws. I do think I can get him to make the effort to change, because I've pulled away from him physically and emotionally, and he'll want to change that, even if he won't change for his kids.

And yes, his father was angry irritable and physical as well, so that's a factor. Turns out he had undiagnosed depression for my DH's whole childhood, so I that's why I think that's a possibility for DH. NOw his dad is on meds and way more calm.

Thanks for the recommendation for the PEP class, I'll definitely look into that.

Also, I'm not a permissive parent; we have several tools that I use to enforce loving boundaries, including 1-2-3- timeout, saying "try again", natural consequences, etc. My husband always forgets to use them no matter how many times I remind him. I'm not perfect either; I have yelled at my kids on occasion, though I'm generally pretty even-keeled. But even when I yell, I apologize profusely and repair the relationship. That's one of DH's big problems, is he never repairs adequately, so the hurts keep mounting.

OP I think it would be really helpful for you to get individual therapy with a family systems therapist to sort out what you can do and cannot do. You have to distinguish between the things you can’t accept (like the grabbing/throwing/being scary) and your DH not parenting the way you think is best. There will be a lot you let go, but also some things you have to stand absolutely firm on.

Here is my story. My exDH was similarly short tempered and put his hands on our kid and was scary. His own father had been physically abusive as well and his mother not abusive but a spanker (like no grandma I will not “pop” the toddler on the hand for being naughty.) ExDH refused any sort of parent training (he attended but did not pay attention/argued with the therapist) so I just attended myself and learned how to properly discipline (I was inconsistent and too permissive and our kid did have difficult behaviors).

I was very concerned about exDH’s interactions with our child when he was younger (maybe starting around 4). Any time that I saw him do anything physical (for example physically stop DC from getting up when they were doing homework together) I was right there in exDH’s face, stopping the interaction or watching like a hawk. exDH knew very very clearly (because I made it clear) that he could not get away with anything physical on my watch.

While this was happening there were many other parenting issues I disagreed with. DH never used any of the parenting tools I learned, he wouldn’t do things like “validate emotions,” could be short with DC, etc etc. Later on our DC had some bigger emotional issues and DH’s response was basically a variety of “be a man and buck up!” And DH can be sort of harsh about DC’s shortcomings. So yeah not exactly a follower of Dr Becky.

But … I had to force myself eventually to let go of trying to micromanage anything about their relationship except the things that were truly non-negotiable: no physical violence, feed the kid, get kid to bed at a reasonable hour.

Over time DC calmed down and DH stopped getting angry. part of this was DH avoiding anything difficult with DC and DC learning DH’s limits. Anything difficult (like chores etc) was left to me. Also over time it became apparent to me that DH had his own way and gifts he brought to DC as a parent (a type of unconditional love that DC knows is there) and lots of other stuff that would be too long to list here. I did have to give up my notion that I knew the best way to parent or that “good parenting” by definition means always overthinking things or applying a method.

At the end of the day exDH and DC have a sort of old-school father-son relationship - warm but not emotionally deep, with a lot of distance between them in terms of actual demands on each other. Like bros lol.

Oh and we got divorced because exDH was a d*ck to me and I got sick of him.

NP how did you convince your DH to stop the rough handling / throwing? My DH does that to our child when he gets escalated. Like OP he has not thrown stuff at the kid but has thrown stuff to the wall, down the stairs, etc when child did not want to do stuff or was yelling. But I talked to him multiple times and he will not stop. If anything he does the same thing to me. These things though don’t matter in a divorce so that’s why I stay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes!
Did you and your husband plan and discus having children?

Can’t believe divorce isn’t an option for a physically violent man who lashes out on his own kids

Is he abusive w you?

I'm a PP whose DH became easily frustrated with our kids.

You don't know what kind of parent you will be until you have kids. It also depends on the kid's temperament. Some kids are easier than others.

And IMO, rough handling your child is not necessarily abusive in the legal sense. IMO breaking up a family over this incident (or a few others) without trying to work on your parenting is not the answer.

I call BS - I knew exactly what kind of parent I wanted to be when I had kids. I knew 10 years before I had kids and 5 years before I met my husband. I played a HUGE role in choosing a husband. We both took parenting classes before and after our fist was born. Two kids are adults and 2 are teens and yes - we are the parents we thought we would be. We were always in the same page. And YES parenting can be difficult, frustrating, and challenging - which is when you have to rely on each other most.

I’m flabbergasted at people like you who get married and have kids - the biggest life impacting decision you will ever make - without giving it much thought. If you don’t think about this what on earth do you put thought into?

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. If everything worked out for you exactly the way you expected, great, but that's not the case for a lot of people and it's not because they don't know what kind of parent they want to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes!
Did you and your husband plan and discus having children?

Can’t believe divorce isn’t an option for a physically violent man who lashes out on his own kids

Is he abusive w you?

I'm a PP whose DH became easily frustrated with our kids.

You don't know what kind of parent you will be until you have kids. It also depends on the kid's temperament. Some kids are easier than others.

And IMO, rough handling your child is not necessarily abusive in the legal sense. IMO breaking up a family over this incident (or a few others) without trying to work on your parenting is not the answer.

I call BS - I knew exactly what kind of parent I wanted to be when I had kids. I knew 10 years before I had kids and 5 years before I met my husband. I played a HUGE role in choosing a husband. We both took parenting classes before and after our fist was born. Two kids are adults and 2 are teens and yes - we are the parents we thought we would be. We were always in the same page. And YES parenting can be difficult, frustrating, and challenging - which is when you have to rely on each other most.

I’m flabbergasted at people like you who get married and have kids - the biggest life impacting decision you will ever make - without giving it much thought. If you don’t think about this what on earth do you put thought into?

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. If everything worked out for you exactly the way you expected, great, but that's not the case for a lot of people and it's not because they don't know what kind of parent they want to be.

This. Everyone is a great parent - before they have kids. In the time BC (before children), we will all be the one family that's living the Leave It To Beaver life...

If this thread has pointed out anything, is that we all bring some measure of our baggage to the family dynamic. Personality issues, parenting styles, stress, etc... bring things to the fore. Even the "divorce your dh" nutjobs will end up harming their children, because living the divorced life with children is all fun and games, amirite? Call me when your ex feeds them regular cheese instead of the organic stuff you normally give when it's your weekend; and Dad's new friend - Aunty what's-her-name - just spent the weekend...

Good luck, OP. Continue to work on communication with DH, and together work on modeling for the children. Life and circumstances change, if you DH is willing to grow (and you along with him) you can create the loving (albeit imperfect) family, that we - all DCUM - have experienced in our unique ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry. Your husband’s behavior is inexcusable and a complete turn off.

Since divorce isn’t an option. Best of luck to you and your kids

Boy, what a silly and unhelpful answer. These divorce-your-dh nutjobs never appreciate that marriage, family, and parenting is not always a walk in the park; husbands and wives are also learning, growing, through the years, and bring their experiences to a relationship. Alas, even ans andults, we are not always perfect.

Throwing “divorce” on the table every time there is a relationship challenge, is not helpful for creating and sustaining healthy relationships. Presumaly, if you married someone, it was to live a life together, through the ups and downs of love…

PP, if everything in your life is so disposable, you are simply a fair-weather friend. Be gone with you…

“Worst of all he's physically intimidated her by throwing her things when he's angry, or handling her roughly out of impatience/frustration (like picking her up and moving her roughly if she refuses to move”

Ma’am OPs husbands actions w his daughter are FAR from a relationship issue.

However, you do you.

Agree! OP married a man who grew into a child. She didn’t ask for that.