How can women not be duped by men?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the first 6 months: Tell him “no.” State your opinions firmly. Don’t rescue him if he finds himself in a tough situation of his own creation.

The problem is that in the early stages of a relationship women are taught to not need anything and to give everything bc the goal used to be to catch a man. Even a crappy man was better than being a spinster and women are still socialized with that mindset.

The reality is that the early stages of the relationship are the place where you need to push back, say no, be unhelpful. Because a weak, selfish man will be utterly infuriated and will either show his weakness so you can dump him or he will weed himself out. A man worth your time can hear no and be respectful about it. He won’t automatically reject opinions offered by women. If he messes up, he will understand that it’s his responsibility to solve it.

Don’t do anything for a new boyfriend that you wouldn’t do for a newish friend. If Denise from marketing was sick would you go over and take her temperature hourly and make her soup and clean her apartment while you’re there? No. You would text her a get-well message, maybe drop off soup, and check in after a few days to see if she is on the mend. Treat a boyfriend like that. If he is likes you as a person it won’t drive him away; if he only likes you for your labor then good riddance!

Most women won't want a boyfriend who treats them the same way you are describing. Someone who pushes back, says no, is unhelpful, treats his girlfriend like Denise from marketing. If someone posted on here that their boyfriend of 6 months was acting the way you suggest people act, she would be given the advice to dump him.

NP, but yeah because... men and women are different? Men are socialized to be selfish, that it's okay to be loud and focus on themselves. Wome are socialized to be aware of the group, to be empathetic and self sacrificing and nice. So yes, men need, often, to be trained to put the other person first whereas women often need to train themselves to put themselves first. It's the same reason the "male loneliness crisis" exists, because men cannot maintain friendships with other men because they dont really engage in reciprocal behavior. Both sides are being selfish so the friendship is shallow and unfulfilling. Women dont suffer from the same issue because they habitually put the other person before them, think of what they'd like/enjoy, connect with them emotionally. Women need to basically learn to take a step back from constantly "fixing" the relationship or other person and exist in an attitude of selfishness, and men need to learn the total opposite.

So much sexism in one post. Women and men both need to respect ohers and be treated with respect. Neither needs to fix the other but both should be supportive. There is no one way that women act and men act in relationships. Both sexes run the gamet of personalities and how they treat others and how selfish or unselfish they are. There is no need to "train" anyone. Teach your kids to treat others with respect and to expect respect in return. Teach both your sons and daughters to assert themselves, and to know what a healthy relationship looks like and how to take responsibility for themselves and their choices. As adults, make those choices for yourself. Neither should put up with disrespect or a non supportive or unequal partner.

It's the truth, and men need to be socialized differently IN GENERAL, which is exactly why so many of them are struggling so much to function in society and maintain relationships of any kind. It's very obvious who the problem is. The proof is in the pudding

You think women are functioning fabulously? Look how many posts on here where they can't make friends, are anxious, not coping, no support system, in conflict with family and friends. And lots of men have friendships. It isn't this great sexist divide you keep preaching. Maybe you raised your own kids in a very sexist way but many of us have no trouble voicing an opinion and don't really know anyone like the people you describe. Women and men can both choose how to act and how to be. If you are socializing your daughters to be passive victims and your sons to be loud and selfish, that is on you. Most of us don't do that. At the end of the day they both need to treat other with respect and expect respect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meh, I think women have as much responsiblity as men in relationships and can control their own destiny. Noen of this passivity.

Men and women can choose to end dating relationships that aren't working for them. It doesn't mean either was duped, it is what dating is for. To see if you want to make a life long committment and if at some point one person doesn't, they should end it.

I am completely agains the sexist tradition of proposal / engagement rings as some required ritual or the idea that women's dreams in life are about rings and white dresses.

Women need to start living their own lives, making their own decisions, and being active and autonomous in their life choices. They aren't damsels in distress, or weak, helpless, passive beings who exist at the whim of men.

This is a lesson I am finally learning in my mid forties post divorce. I look back over my 20s and see how I consistently made choices that benefitted everyone but me. I hope I can model better for my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the first 6 months: Tell him “no.” State your opinions firmly. Don’t rescue him if he finds himself in a tough situation of his own creation.

The problem is that in the early stages of a relationship women are taught to not need anything and to give everything bc the goal used to be to catch a man. Even a crappy man was better than being a spinster and women are still socialized with that mindset.

The reality is that the early stages of the relationship are the place where you need to push back, say no, be unhelpful. Because a weak, selfish man will be utterly infuriated and will either show his weakness so you can dump him or he will weed himself out. A man worth your time can hear no and be respectful about it. He won’t automatically reject opinions offered by women. If he messes up, he will understand that it’s his responsibility to solve it.

Don’t do anything for a new boyfriend that you wouldn’t do for a newish friend. If Denise from marketing was sick would you go over and take her temperature hourly and make her soup and clean her apartment while you’re there? No. You would text her a get-well message, maybe drop off soup, and check in after a few days to see if she is on the mend. Treat a boyfriend like that. If he is likes you as a person it won’t drive him away; if he only likes you for your labor then good riddance!

Most women won't want a boyfriend who treats them the same way you are describing. Someone who pushes back, says no, is unhelpful, treats his girlfriend like Denise from marketing. If someone posted on here that their boyfriend of 6 months was acting the way you suggest people act, she would be given the advice to dump him.

NP, but yeah because... men and women are different? Men are socialized to be selfish, that it's okay to be loud and focus on themselves. Wome are socialized to be aware of the group, to be empathetic and self sacrificing and nice. So yes, men need, often, to be trained to put the other person first whereas women often need to train themselves to put themselves first. It's the same reason the "male loneliness crisis" exists, because men cannot maintain friendships with other men because they dont really engage in reciprocal behavior. Both sides are being selfish so the friendship is shallow and unfulfilling. Women dont suffer from the same issue because they habitually put the other person before them, think of what they'd like/enjoy, connect with them emotionally. Women need to basically learn to take a step back from constantly "fixing" the relationship or other person and exist in an attitude of selfishness, and men need to learn the total opposite.

So much sexism in one post. Women and men both need to respect ohers and be treated with respect. Neither needs to fix the other but both should be supportive. There is no one way that women act and men act in relationships. Both sexes run the gamet of personalities and how they treat others and how selfish or unselfish they are. There is no need to "train" anyone. Teach your kids to treat others with respect and to expect respect in return. Teach both your sons and daughters to assert themselves, and to know what a healthy relationship looks like and how to take responsibility for themselves and their choices. As adults, make those choices for yourself. Neither should put up with disrespect or a non supportive or unequal partner.

It's the truth, and men need to be socialized differently IN GENERAL, which is exactly why so many of them are struggling so much to function in society and maintain relationships of any kind. It's very obvious who the problem is. The proof is in the pudding

You think women are functioning fabulously? Look how many posts on here where they can't make friends, are anxious, not coping, no support system, in conflict with family and friends. And lots of men have friendships. It isn't this great sexist divide you keep preaching. Maybe you raised your own kids in a very sexist way but many of us have no trouble voicing an opinion and don't really know anyone like the people you describe. Women and men can both choose how to act and how to be. If you are socializing your daughters to be passive victims and your sons to be loud and selfish, that is on you. Most of us don't do that. At the end of the day they both need to treat other with respect and expect respect.

Compared to men? Yes, and it's not even a question. We have the statistics and all the think pieces about the "male crisis" to prove it. And we need people to stop sticking their heads in the sand and address the problem, so men can stop flailing around and sabotaging their lives and the lives of the people around them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the first 6 months: Tell him “no.” State your opinions firmly. Don’t rescue him if he finds himself in a tough situation of his own creation.

The problem is that in the early stages of a relationship women are taught to not need anything and to give everything bc the goal used to be to catch a man. Even a crappy man was better than being a spinster and women are still socialized with that mindset.

The reality is that the early stages of the relationship are the place where you need to push back, say no, be unhelpful. Because a weak, selfish man will be utterly infuriated and will either show his weakness so you can dump him or he will weed himself out. A man worth your time can hear no and be respectful about it. He won’t automatically reject opinions offered by women. If he messes up, he will understand that it’s his responsibility to solve it.

Don’t do anything for a new boyfriend that you wouldn’t do for a newish friend. If Denise from marketing was sick would you go over and take her temperature hourly and make her soup and clean her apartment while you’re there? No. You would text her a get-well message, maybe drop off soup, and check in after a few days to see if she is on the mend. Treat a boyfriend like that. If he is likes you as a person it won’t drive him away; if he only likes you for your labor then good riddance!

Most women won't want a boyfriend who treats them the same way you are describing. Someone who pushes back, says no, is unhelpful, treats his girlfriend like Denise from marketing. If someone posted on here that their boyfriend of 6 months was acting the way you suggest people act, she would be given the advice to dump him.

NP, but yeah because... men and women are different? Men are socialized to be selfish, that it's okay to be loud and focus on themselves. Wome are socialized to be aware of the group, to be empathetic and self sacrificing and nice. So yes, men need, often, to be trained to put the other person first whereas women often need to train themselves to put themselves first. It's the same reason the "male loneliness crisis" exists, because men cannot maintain friendships with other men because they dont really engage in reciprocal behavior. Both sides are being selfish so the friendship is shallow and unfulfilling. Women dont suffer from the same issue because they habitually put the other person before them, think of what they'd like/enjoy, connect with them emotionally. Women need to basically learn to take a step back from constantly "fixing" the relationship or other person and exist in an attitude of selfishness, and men need to learn the total opposite.

So much sexism in one post. Women and men both need to respect ohers and be treated with respect. Neither needs to fix the other but both should be supportive. There is no one way that women act and men act in relationships. Both sexes run the gamet of personalities and how they treat others and how selfish or unselfish they are. There is no need to "train" anyone. Teach your kids to treat others with respect and to expect respect in return. Teach both your sons and daughters to assert themselves, and to know what a healthy relationship looks like and how to take responsibility for themselves and their choices. As adults, make those choices for yourself. Neither should put up with disrespect or a non supportive or unequal partner.

It's the truth, and men need to be socialized differently IN GENERAL, which is exactly why so many of them are struggling so much to function in society and maintain relationships of any kind. It's very obvious who the problem is. The proof is in the pudding

You think women are functioning fabulously? Look how many posts on here where they can't make friends, are anxious, not coping, no support system, in conflict with family and friends. And lots of men have friendships. It isn't this great sexist divide you keep preaching. Maybe you raised your own kids in a very sexist way but many of us have no trouble voicing an opinion and don't really know anyone like the people you describe. Women and men can both choose how to act and how to be. If you are socializing your daughters to be passive victims and your sons to be loud and selfish, that is on you. Most of us don't do that. At the end of the day they both need to treat other with respect and expect respect.

Compared to men? Yes, and it's not even a question. We have the statistics and all the think pieces about the "male crisis" to prove it. And we need people to stop sticking their heads in the sand and address the problem, so men can stop flailing around and sabotaging their lives and the lives of the people around them.

Maybe you live in a very backwards and behing place. This already happened in most progressive and modern placecs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the first 6 months: Tell him “no.” State your opinions firmly. Don’t rescue him if he finds himself in a tough situation of his own creation.

The problem is that in the early stages of a relationship women are taught to not need anything and to give everything bc the goal used to be to catch a man. Even a crappy man was better than being a spinster and women are still socialized with that mindset.

The reality is that the early stages of the relationship are the place where you need to push back, say no, be unhelpful. Because a weak, selfish man will be utterly infuriated and will either show his weakness so you can dump him or he will weed himself out. A man worth your time can hear no and be respectful about it. He won’t automatically reject opinions offered by women. If he messes up, he will understand that it’s his responsibility to solve it.

Don’t do anything for a new boyfriend that you wouldn’t do for a newish friend. If Denise from marketing was sick would you go over and take her temperature hourly and make her soup and clean her apartment while you’re there? No. You would text her a get-well message, maybe drop off soup, and check in after a few days to see if she is on the mend. Treat a boyfriend like that. If he is likes you as a person it won’t drive him away; if he only likes you for your labor then good riddance!

Most women won't want a boyfriend who treats them the same way you are describing. Someone who pushes back, says no, is unhelpful, treats his girlfriend like Denise from marketing. If someone posted on here that their boyfriend of 6 months was acting the way you suggest people act, she would be given the advice to dump him.

NP, but yeah because... men and women are different? Men are socialized to be selfish, that it's okay to be loud and focus on themselves. Wome are socialized to be aware of the group, to be empathetic and self sacrificing and nice. So yes, men need, often, to be trained to put the other person first whereas women often need to train themselves to put themselves first. It's the same reason the "male loneliness crisis" exists, because men cannot maintain friendships with other men because they dont really engage in reciprocal behavior. Both sides are being selfish so the friendship is shallow and unfulfilling. Women dont suffer from the same issue because they habitually put the other person before them, think of what they'd like/enjoy, connect with them emotionally. Women need to basically learn to take a step back from constantly "fixing" the relationship or other person and exist in an attitude of selfishness, and men need to learn the total opposite.

So much sexism in one post. Women and men both need to respect ohers and be treated with respect. Neither needs to fix the other but both should be supportive. There is no one way that women act and men act in relationships. Both sexes run the gamet of personalities and how they treat others and how selfish or unselfish they are. There is no need to "train" anyone. Teach your kids to treat others with respect and to expect respect in return. Teach both your sons and daughters to assert themselves, and to know what a healthy relationship looks like and how to take responsibility for themselves and their choices. As adults, make those choices for yourself. Neither should put up with disrespect or a non supportive or unequal partner.

It's the truth, and men need to be socialized differently IN GENERAL, which is exactly why so many of them are struggling so much to function in society and maintain relationships of any kind. It's very obvious who the problem is. The proof is in the pudding

You think women are functioning fabulously? Look how many posts on here where they can't make friends, are anxious, not coping, no support system, in conflict with family and friends. And lots of men have friendships. It isn't this great sexist divide you keep preaching. Maybe you raised your own kids in a very sexist way but many of us have no trouble voicing an opinion and don't really know anyone like the people you describe. Women and men can both choose how to act and how to be. If you are socializing your daughters to be passive victims and your sons to be loud and selfish, that is on you. Most of us don't do that. At the end of the day they both need to treat other with respect and expect respect.

Compared to men? Yes, and it's not even a question. We have the statistics and all the think pieces about the "male crisis" to prove it. And we need people to stop sticking their heads in the sand and address the problem, so men can stop flailing around and sabotaging their lives and the lives of the people around them.

Maybe you live in a very backwards and behing place. This already happened in most progressive and modern placecs.

More cope. This affects men (and women) internationally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh, I think women have as much responsiblity as men in relationships and can control their own destiny. Noen of this passivity.

Men and women can choose to end dating relationships that aren't working for them. It doesn't mean either was duped, it is what dating is for. To see if you want to make a life long committment and if at some point one person doesn't, they should end it.

I am completely agains the sexist tradition of proposal / engagement rings as some required ritual or the idea that women's dreams in life are about rings and white dresses.

Women need to start living their own lives, making their own decisions, and being active and autonomous in their life choices. They aren't damsels in distress, or weak, helpless, passive beings who exist at the whim of men.

This is a lesson I am finally learning in my mid forties post divorce. I look back over my 20s and see how I consistently made choices that benefitted everyone but me. I hope I can model better for my kids.

That is great. Do it! I have always lived that way. I grew up as a child in a pretty conservative area and had decided by the time I was an early teen that I would live my own life and be as strong and as capable and as responsible for my life choices as anyone else. I am 50 now. Never regretted it, and have never seen the appeal or benefit of acting weak or passive or helpless.

[Anonymous]

90% of women are competing for the top 10% of men, and over 85% of men are INVISIBLE to women. Women always say that they want a loving and caring guy, and yet the guys who work at Walmart or Target are invisible to them. All women want a guy who is at least 6 ft tall (14% of the US population), makes at least 500K (1% of the population), 7 inches in the pant. Those guys have A LOT of options with women that they are NOT going to commit to a single woman. Yet, women these days are just delusional that they think they can get those guys to commit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:90% of women are competing for the top 10% of men, and over 85% of men are INVISIBLE to women. Women always say that they want a loving and caring guy, and yet the guys who work at Walmart or Target are invisible to them. All women want a guy who is at least 6 ft tall (14% of the US population), makes at least 500K (1% of the population), 7 inches in the pant. Those guys have A LOT of options with women that they are NOT going to commit to a single woman. Yet, women these days are just delusional that they think they can get those guys to commit.

I don't want a loving, caring guy, because those have been boring and slow in the head. I also don't want a tall guy or I would have stayed in Northern Europe. The Target /Walmart guys are sketchy as they usually have work permit and should have better options for work unless very young. They are like anti-capitalism dudes, who do bare minimum to survive. I had one of those.
I think the illegal construction guys are hot minus being chubby. The do physically hard work- no reason to be chubby.
The problem with the construction buys is that we really have nothing to talk about. They didn't go to school too long and at some point, it comes out that the poverty they grew up in, really scared them. Takes a while, but it will come out.
Money? I have money. I don't need them to have money. I need them to be in construction, but also have k-12.

[Anonymous]

I do. Men on this board and the sort of men who string women along certainly don’t seem to. High expectations, high standards, and no compromises are the ways women avoid being strung along.

What do you do when you like a man with high expectations, high standards, and no compromises? If you cannot compromise, you cannot get along.

Your extreme arrogance is indicative of low self-esteem.

You will reply with something like, "I am not arrogant, I just uphold my standards," or "I will not compromise for anyone." However, you treat any man who will compromise to be with you poorly because your low self-esteem makes you view him as inferior (i.e., you know he is flawed because he would compromise to be with you.)

You get strung along because you want men with equally low self-esteem and view them favorably when they treat you poorly because, deep down, you believe this is how you should be treated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I do. Men on this board and the sort of men who string women along certainly don’t seem to. High expectations, high standards, and no compromises are the ways women avoid being strung along.

What do you do when you like a man with high expectations, high standards, and no compromises? If you cannot compromise, you cannot get along.

Your extreme arrogance is indicative of low self-esteem.

You will reply with something like, "I am not arrogant, I just uphold my standards," or "I will not compromise for anyone." However, you treat any man who will compromise to be with you poorly because your low self-esteem makes you view him as inferior (i.e., you know he is flawed because he would compromise to be with you.)

You get strung along because you want men with equally low self-esteem and view them favorably when they treat you poorly because, deep down, you believe this is how you should be treated.

I don’t get strung along— I’m happily married to the kind, successful man I met more than a decade ago. But when we were dating if he’d been wishy-washy on our future, expected me to tolerate man-child behavior, or act as though I was unaware of my own value as a partner, he would have been this guy I saw in grad school for a couple of dates. My advice to all women is to know what they want, know what they deserve, and not compromise on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:90% of women are competing for the top 10% of men, and over 85% of men are INVISIBLE to women. Women always say that they want a loving and caring guy, and yet the guys who work at Walmart or Target are invisible to them. All women want a guy who is at least 6 ft tall (14% of the US population), makes at least 500K (1% of the population), 7 inches in the pant. Those guys have A LOT of options with women that they are NOT going to commit to a single woman. Yet, women these days are just delusional that they think they can get those guys to commit.

You need to go back to school and demand your teachers do better. If your story were true, only about 15% of the adult population would be married. Closer to 50% is. Let this incel talking point die, it’s an embarrassment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:90% of women are competing for the top 10% of men, and over 85% of men are INVISIBLE to women. Women always say that they want a loving and caring guy, and yet the guys who work at Walmart or Target are invisible to them. All women want a guy who is at least 6 ft tall (14% of the US population), makes at least 500K (1% of the population), 7 inches in the pant. Those guys have A LOT of options with women that they are NOT going to commit to a single woman. Yet, women these days are just delusional that they think they can get those guys to commit.

You need to go back to school and demand your teachers do better. If your story were true, only about 15% of the adult population would be married. Closer to 50% is. Let this incel talking point die, it’s an embarrassment.

It's more like 10% are dating the other top 10%. All men I dated in 3 years post divorce were PhDs, and literally one LinkedIn connection from me (regardless of which city in the US we lived). Funny but I met online and dated a man who worked in the same place as my father's colleague, and they all knew each other. They were all at least 6 ft tall, making way more than half a million. I am 47 and keep dating the same type. It's never hookups: in fact, all relationships were 6 months + .There is no need for me to "settle". In fact, I just turned down a hedge fund manager who wasn't very nice to me and went for a tenured college professor instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

She’s one of the lucky ones. Not those of us that found the lies out down the road with kids and a divorce—-that they lied about who they were. She’s young and set free.

It is unlikely these men lied. It is much more likely they made a bad choice for a wife. Now, they feel trapped as well. However, posters (like the one above) blame their husbands for the crappy marriages without looking at how their conduct contributed to the failure.

The surest sign of being at fault is to blame someone else for a poor outcome, just like this poster did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is why so much dating advice for women basically boils down "be a bi**h". Because, unfortunately, nice women get taken advantage of, because men are inherently self centered and going to advocate for themselves. That's why you see so many men who sit around and do nothing while their wives exhaust themselves cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the kids. And the men will feel literally zero guilt about it.

Does "be a bi**h" work in any other relationship? Does it work with your friends, coworkers, kids? No. It does not.

Sister, if your man is sitting around doing nothing while you exhaust yourself, he may think he married beneath himself and does not need to put forth any effort. And that is on you.

Please elaborate on your theory that men are inherently self-centered. Is your dad self-centered? Your brothers? Your sons?

Do you think the women your sons date (or marry) should be "a bi**h" to them? Or should they show the men they (and you) love respect and expect to receive it in return?

Yawn. More nonsensical blaming of women for men's bad behavior. The truth is Beyonce got cheated on. Megan Fox got cheated on. Shakira got cheated on. There is no amount of perfect a woman can be to make up for men's deficiency. And that's what women are starting to realize. It's the same reason men leave their wives when they get sick with terminal diseases, and the same reasons men are failing out of school and living life on the margins. They simply cannot measure up.

Why are Beyonce, Megan, and Shakira viewed as perfect? No celebrity couple "scandal" ever surprises me because often the people are apart for long periods of time (concert tours or filming). That's not normal and doesn't reflect at all on regular folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is why so much dating advice for women basically boils down "be a bi**h". Because, unfortunately, nice women get taken advantage of, because men are inherently self centered and going to advocate for themselves. That's why you see so many men who sit around and do nothing while their wives exhaust themselves cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the kids. And the men will feel literally zero guilt about it.

Does "be a bi**h" work in any other relationship? Does it work with your friends, coworkers, kids? No. It does not.

Sister, if your man is sitting around doing nothing while you exhaust yourself, he may think he married beneath himself and does not need to put forth any effort. And that is on you.

Please elaborate on your theory that men are inherently self-centered. Is your dad self-centered? Your brothers? Your sons?

Do you think the women your sons date (or marry) should be "a bi**h" to them? Or should they show the men they (and you) love respect and expect to receive it in return?

Yawn. More nonsensical blaming of women for men's bad behavior. The truth is Beyonce got cheated on. Megan Fox got cheated on. Shakira got cheated on. There is no amount of perfect a woman can be to make up for men's deficiency. And that's what women are starting to realize. It's the same reason men leave their wives when they get sick with terminal diseases, and the same reasons men are failing out of school and living life on the margins. They simply cannot measure up.

Why are Beyonce, Megan, and Shakira viewed as perfect? No celebrity couple "scandal" ever surprises me because often the people are apart for long periods of time (concert tours or filming). That's not normal and doesn't reflect at all on regular folks.

Beyonce has been with a man since she was a teen, who seems to have lots of red flags so probably she isn't a role model for how to have a great relationship.