When people refer to top 20 and top 25 schools what are they?

[Anonymous]

There’s the DCUM and affluent-Northeast corridor T-25 and flyover/South T-25. Some overlap but the many top GA or FL or TN students may prefer their not-T-25 flagships

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is asked over and over every week.
Ivy+ has a fairly consistent definition based on studies using that term and defining it as The 8 ivies plusMIT Stanford Duke Uchicago. Most people would add the perennial T10 schools Caltech, Northwestern, Hopkins. Thats the T-15. After that using traditional strength of student body ranking the rest of the T25 are:
UCB, WashU, Rice, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, CMU, UCLA, Mich, UVa, ordered variously based on personal preference and bias but basically everyone agrees these are the 16-25 group of schools.

There are no large public’s in the top 25 schools. USNWR adjusted the ranking criteria to make some float to the top.

For undergraduate education SLACs are better than any of these schools outside of engineering/CS.

Only the top 5 SLACs seem worth it. When ranked against national universities, you have Williams at 18 and the other 4 in the top 30…and then they drop off a cliff.

The SLACs don't do well against the very top universities. But I'm not sure anyone at Pomona College wishes they were at Northwestern, Hopkins, Rice, Vanderbilt, or Chicago.

SLACs have a very different objective and purpose. They are more focussed towards undergraduate teaching, if looking at undergraduate teaching, its best to look at following:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/undergrad-research-programs

This has all National Univ and SLACs ranked together.

This is a ridiculous list. Elon ranks higher than Brown and Williams? Arizona State above Carleton? Please come over here and buy this bridge I'm selling.

Forbes does a better job of a comprehensive ranking: https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know the obvious ones-- Ivies, Stanford, MIT. But what are the other schools typically? What schools are top 25 but not top 20?

Here is a recent article that lists 34 schools with the most influential alumni. I think it's a bit dated because The ahrvard pull isn't what it used to be and I am sure the Bucknell guy is going to stop by to let us know that Bucknell belongs on this list.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-024-03547-8

Amherst College
Bowdoin College
Brown University
California Institute of Technology
Carleton College
Carnegie Mellon University
Columbia University
Cornell University
Dartmouth College
Duke University
Georgetown University
Harvard University
Harvey Mudd College
Haverford College
Johns Hopkins University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
New York University
Northwestern University
Pomona College
Princeton University
Rice University
Stanford University
Swarthmore College
Tufts University
University of California-Berkeley
University of Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Notre Dame
University of Pennsylvania
University of Virginia
Vanderbilt University
Washington University in St. Louis
Williams College
Yale University

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, why do people say T40? It feels like an arbitrary cutoff, but I see it more than T30 or T60, so there must be some reason, right?

(Totally just curious. Don’t know or care what the schools DC applied to are ranked.)

That is about where the drop-off occurs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the obvious ones-- Ivies, Stanford, MIT. But what are the other schools typically? What schools are top 25 but not top 20?

Here is a recent article that lists 34 schools with the most influential alumni. I think it's a bit dated because The ahrvard pull isn't what it used to be and I am sure the Bucknell guy is going to stop by to let us know that Bucknell belongs on this list.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-024-03547-8

Amherst College
Bowdoin College
Brown University
California Institute of Technology
Carleton College
Carnegie Mellon University
Columbia University
Cornell University
Dartmouth College
Duke University
Georgetown University
Harvard University
Harvey Mudd College
Haverford College
Johns Hopkins University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
New York University
Northwestern University
Pomona College
Princeton University
Rice University
Stanford University
Swarthmore College
Tufts University
University of California-Berkeley
University of Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Notre Dame
University of Pennsylvania
University of Virginia
Vanderbilt University
Washington University in St. Louis
Williams College
Yale University

It's an interesting list and certainly a different way of looking at colleges. I thought the following paragraph was interesting:

The Ivy league and Harvard University
Taking a direct non-weighted average of the percentages within just the Ivy League institutions shows that about 36.3% attended one of just these eight schools. Harvard alone accounts for 16%, meaning that a single institution accounts for almost a sixth of all American extraordinary achievers. Of the “Elite” 34 schools, 82.3% were accounted for by the top 16 schools, 67% were accounted for by the Ivy League, and 29.5% were accounted for by Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think of T25 as all the ivies
Duke Chicago Northwestern Vandy Rice etc
UCLA UMich Cal
Emory and UVA Georgetown

I think of USC and NYU UNC and UT Austin as top 30, don’t care what the current rankings say.

I don’t think UCSB or any other UC is T30 - at all. Again don’t care what the current rankings say. UF and UGA are probably ranked rn but I don’t think of them that way. Sorry not sorry

LACs are collegs too, you can't exclude them. When you include the top (WASP) LACs USC, NYU, Texas etc aren't T30 anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s the DCUM and affluent-Northeast corridor T-25 and flyover/South T-25. Some overlap but the many top GA or FL or TN students may prefer their not-T-25 flagships

Whatever makes you feel better. Out side of the ivyplus there aren't any top northeast schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think of T25 as all the ivies
Duke Chicago Northwestern Vandy Rice etc
UCLA UMich Cal
Emory and UVA Georgetown

I think of USC and NYU UNC and UT Austin as top 30, don’t care what the current rankings say.

I don’t think UCSB or any other UC is T30 - at all. Again don’t care what the current rankings say. UF and UGA are probably ranked rn but I don’t think of them that way. Sorry not sorry

Only Virginians insist UVA is more prestigious than USC or NYU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is asked over and over every week.
Ivy+ has a fairly consistent definition based on studies using that term and defining it as The 8 ivies plusMIT Stanford Duke Uchicago. Most people would add the perennial T10 schools Caltech, Northwestern, Hopkins. Thats the T-15. After that using traditional strength of student body ranking the rest of the T25 are:
UCB, WashU, Rice, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, CMU, UCLA, Mich, UVa, ordered variously based on personal preference and bias but basically everyone agrees these are the 16-25 group of schools.

You may be correct…but it’s whatever USNews ranks as top 25.

Correct.

Everyone has their own opinion.

USNews pretty much is the source despite some detractors who don’t like where their college is ranked.

Many people dislike US News because they think the methodology is bad. For those people, it has nothing to do with not liking where their college is ranked.

Of course it does. The purported "bad" methodology knocked their (private) college down a tier, otherwise they wouldn't be bellyaching about it.

They can dislike both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is asked over and over every week.
Ivy+ has a fairly consistent definition based on studies using that term and defining it as The 8 ivies plusMIT Stanford Duke Uchicago. Most people would add the perennial T10 schools Caltech, Northwestern, Hopkins. Thats the T-15. After that using traditional strength of student body ranking the rest of the T25 are:
UCB, WashU, Rice, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, CMU, UCLA, Mich, UVa, ordered variously based on personal preference and bias but basically everyone agrees these are the 16-25 group of schools.

No we don't, Emory is T25, UVA (and maybe Umich) are not. Emory has been Top 20 for years while UVA has never been.

Emory? lol no

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/emory-university-1564
Currently ranked 24
https://www.aronfrishberg.com/projects/usnehas historically been ranked higher than UVA for 30 years.

The second link is broken, here's another.
UVA was ranked as low as 28 in 2020. Emory has never been ranked lower than 24. UVA is T30, Emory is T20/25. UVA rose because of the methodology changes that started in 2021.
https://publicuniversityhonors.com/us-news-rankings-2025-which-universities-have-gained-or-lost-the-most-since-2018/

No, it didn’t. It was ranked 23 in 2015, then 26, 24, 25, 25 before 28 in 2020. Your 28 is cherry-picked. Its ranking has been incredibly consistent for a decade.

I am not cherry picking. You and others decided to cherry pick Emory out of a "undisputed list" of T25 schools when Emory was ranked 20 in 2022, and 24 today, its lowest rank. Yet UVAs highest ranks before the methodology changes was 25 and 24 today, ranked as low as 28. Yet UVA is T25, and Emory isnt??? Yea im on to you.

+1 the methodology changes actually started in 2023, Emory would probably still be ranked 20 if it didn't change, while UVA 25-28. Also those changes that helped public schools and hurt privates won't last in the trump era, especially if they get rid of the Department of Education. Thats where US news gets all it's pell grant data.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is asked over and over every week.
Ivy+ has a fairly consistent definition based on studies using that term and defining it as The 8 ivies plusMIT Stanford Duke Uchicago. Most people would add the perennial T10 schools Caltech, Northwestern, Hopkins. Thats the T-15. After that using traditional strength of student body ranking the rest of the T25 are:
UCB, WashU, Rice, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, CMU, UCLA, Mich, UVa, ordered variously based on personal preference and bias but basically everyone agrees these are the 16-25 group of schools.

No we don't, Emory is T25, UVA (and maybe Umich) are not. Emory has been Top 20 for years while UVA has never been.

Emory? lol no

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/emory-university-1564
Currently ranked 24
https://www.aronfrishberg.com/projects/usnehas historically been ranked higher than UVA for 30 years.

The second link is broken, here's another.
UVA was ranked as low as 28 in 2020. Emory has never been ranked lower than 24. UVA is T30, Emory is T20/25. UVA rose because of the methodology changes that started in 2021.
https://publicuniversityhonors.com/us-news-rankings-2025-which-universities-have-gained-or-lost-the-most-since-2018/

The same with Umich, did not rise until the methodology changes.

That isn't true. I've watched this for a long time. Michigan always had a high peer rating, but it was lower in selectivity criteria like SAT than some other publics until it started to take more OOS students quite a while ago. This is what brought Michigan up. It had been in the top set of publics for some time before the Pell related changes. The Pell changes really moved up others like the other UC schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the obvious ones-- Ivies, Stanford, MIT. But what are the other schools typically? What schools are top 25 but not top 20?

Here is a recent article that lists 34 schools with the most influential alumni. I think it's a bit dated because The ahrvard pull isn't what it used to be and I am sure the Bucknell guy is going to stop by to let us know that Bucknell belongs on this list.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-024-03547-8

Amherst College
Bowdoin College
Brown University
California Institute of Technology
Carleton College
Carnegie Mellon University
Columbia University
Cornell University
Dartmouth College
Duke University
Georgetown University
Harvard University
Harvey Mudd College
Haverford College
Johns Hopkins University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
New York University
Northwestern University
Pomona College
Princeton University
Rice University
Stanford University
Swarthmore College
Tufts University
University of California-Berkeley
University of Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Notre Dame
University of Pennsylvania
University of Virginia
Vanderbilt University
Washington University in St. Louis
Williams College
Yale University

It's an interesting list and certainly a different way of looking at colleges. I thought the following paragraph was interesting:

The Ivy league and Harvard University
Taking a direct non-weighted average of the percentages within just the Ivy League institutions shows that about 36.3% attended one of just these eight schools. Harvard alone accounts for 16%, meaning that a single institution accounts for almost a sixth of all American extraordinary achievers. Of the “Elite” 34 schools, 82.3% were accounted for by the top 16 schools, 67% were accounted for by the Ivy League, and 29.5% were accounted for by Harvard.

I think that list includes graduate alumni. Harvard Business School and Harvard Law School on their own would rank pretty high. UVA Law could even rank pretty high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is asked over and over every week.
Ivy+ has a fairly consistent definition based on studies using that term and defining it as The 8 ivies plusMIT Stanford Duke Uchicago. Most people would add the perennial T10 schools Caltech, Northwestern, Hopkins. Thats the T-15. After that using traditional strength of student body ranking the rest of the T25 are:
UCB, WashU, Rice, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, CMU, UCLA, Mich, UVa, ordered variously based on personal preference and bias but basically everyone agrees these are the 16-25 group of schools.

No we don't, Emory is T25, UVA (and maybe Umich) are not. Emory has been Top 20 for years while UVA has never been.

Emory? lol no

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/emory-university-1564
Currently ranked 24
https://www.aronfrishberg.com/projects/usnehas historically been ranked higher than UVA for 30 years.

The second link is broken, here's another.
UVA was ranked as low as 28 in 2020. Emory has never been ranked lower than 24. UVA is T30, Emory is T20/25. UVA rose because of the methodology changes that started in 2021.
https://publicuniversityhonors.com/us-news-rankings-2025-which-universities-have-gained-or-lost-the-most-since-2018/

The same with Umich, did not rise until the methodology changes.

That isn't true. I've watched this for a long time. Michigan always had a high peer rating, but it was lower in selectivity criteria like SAT than some other publics until it started to take more OOS students quite a while ago. This is what brought Michigan up. It had been in the top set of publics for some time before the Pell related changes. The Pell changes really moved up others like the other UC schools.

+1. The effect of these changes on some publics (Michigan, UVA) has been minimal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the obvious ones-- Ivies, Stanford, MIT. But what are the other schools typically? What schools are top 25 but not top 20?

Here is a recent article that lists 34 schools with the most influential alumni. I think it's a bit dated because The ahrvard pull isn't what it used to be and I am sure the Bucknell guy is going to stop by to let us know that Bucknell belongs on this list.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-024-03547-8

Amherst College
Bowdoin College
Brown University
California Institute of Technology
Carleton College
Carnegie Mellon University
Columbia University
Cornell University
Dartmouth College
Duke University
Georgetown University
Harvard University
Harvey Mudd College
Haverford College
Johns Hopkins University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
New York University
Northwestern University
Pomona College
Princeton University
Rice University
Stanford University
Swarthmore College
Tufts University
University of California-Berkeley
University of Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Notre Dame
University of Pennsylvania
University of Virginia
Vanderbilt University
Washington University in St. Louis
Williams College
Yale University

It's an interesting list and certainly a different way of looking at colleges. I thought the following paragraph was interesting:

The Ivy league and Harvard University
Taking a direct non-weighted average of the percentages within just the Ivy League institutions shows that about 36.3% attended one of just these eight schools. Harvard alone accounts for 16%, meaning that a single institution accounts for almost a sixth of all American extraordinary achievers. Of the “Elite” 34 schools, 82.3% were accounted for by the top 16 schools, 67% were accounted for by the Ivy League, and 29.5% were accounted for by Harvard.

I think that list includes graduate alumni. Harvard Business School and Harvard Law School on their own would rank pretty high. UVA Law could even rank pretty high.

I can't tell if they only look at undergraduate or not. Obviously, the SLACs on the list have no graduate programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is asked over and over every week.
Ivy+ has a fairly consistent definition based on studies using that term and defining it as The 8 ivies plusMIT Stanford Duke Uchicago. Most people would add the perennial T10 schools Caltech, Northwestern, Hopkins. Thats the T-15. After that using traditional strength of student body ranking the rest of the T25 are:
UCB, WashU, Rice, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, CMU, UCLA, Mich, UVa, ordered variously based on personal preference and bias but basically everyone agrees these are the 16-25 group of schools.

No we don't, Emory is T25, UVA (and maybe Umich) are not. Emory has been Top 20 for years while UVA has never been.

Emory? lol no

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/emory-university-1564
Currently ranked 24
https://www.aronfrishberg.com/projects/usnehas historically been ranked higher than UVA for 30 years.

The second link is broken, here's another.
UVA was ranked as low as 28 in 2020. Emory has never been ranked lower than 24. UVA is T30, Emory is T20/25. UVA rose because of the methodology changes that started in 2021.
https://publicuniversityhonors.com/us-news-rankings-2025-which-universities-have-gained-or-lost-the-most-since-2018/

No, it didn’t. It was ranked 23 in 2015, then 26, 24, 25, 25 before 28 in 2020. Your 28 is cherry-picked. Its ranking has been incredibly consistent for a decade.

I am not cherry picking. You and others decided to cherry pick Emory out of a "undisputed list" of T25 schools when Emory was ranked 20 in 2022, and 24 today, its lowest rank. Yet UVAs highest ranks before the methodology changes was 25 and 24 today, ranked as low as 28. Yet UVA is T25, and Emory isnt??? Yea im on to you.

+1 the methodology changes actually started in 2023, Emory would probably still be ranked 20 if it didn't change, while UVA 25-28. Also those changes that helped public schools and hurt privates won't last in the trump era, especially if they get rid of the Department of Education. Thats where US news gets all it's pell grant data.

+100

The methodology changes intended to boost the publics started with the 2018 rankings where they added in the first set of 'social mobility' criteria. It has become continually worse as they reduced then eliminated acceptance rates, reduced weighting of standardized tests, etc.