massive disagreement with husband about handling kids who won't deal with college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, if my DH were contemplating worwriting my kids' essays, I'd let him know i was contemplating divorce. That is how outrageous and immoral and detrimental to my children I think that is, and it would be a strong indication that my DH is not a person I want to be associated with.

Just, no.

THIS! If he writes the essays he is helping them cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are families who are paying for someone to do the applications for their kids, some families are doing the applications for their kids, some are just helping out by starting the application and filling in all the details, some are writing essays for their children, and some students are doing everything all by themselves.

College is such a huge investment and applications can be so overwhelming. I am not sure it means if you do the application all by yourself if you end up doing better in college and life.

My college roommate at Berkeley had parents who reviewed and if needed corrected/edited all of her homework in high school and continued to do so in college. Additionally, her father’s secretary or mother typed many of her papers. Her sorority had files of old tests in many classes. This helped her to have all A’s.

She’s now partner at a top firm. All of that extra time left her able to socialize and develop really good emotional intelligence/social skills.

I never had any help from my parents. When I had kids I realized that was a huge disadvantage.

Maybe OP your husband realizes this so wants to help.

Yeah neither did I, nor my spouse, yet we excelled at our ivies and are successful partners in our careers(MD, JD). We knew many like your college buddy whose parents did tons: most do not end up successful or if they do they have huge procrastination and life management issues, divorce, alcohol, etc. We would never do what your roommate had done for her. We proofread when asked. Guess what ours are both at T10/different ivy from us, and are excelling! The peers there that have struggled most had parents who hovered and micromanaged them in high school and beyond.
It builds character and pride in oneself to do your own work with parents as sidelines cheerleaders (and tuition payers) only.
For the OP: your DH is in the wrong, completely. I agree you should set deadline for Oct 1 for drafts of the apps due Oct15. Do not discuss it after that , do not remind at all, and check in on Oct 1. Take the car away if they aren’t done. Let them leave the later apps until xmas break.

That hasn’t been my experience. Like my college roommate, classmates with parental help are actually more successful than ones that didn’t get any help. Perhaps it is more due to socio-economics as it was upper middle class and wealthy classmates who were getting help.

The ones getting helped knew how to work the system. My roommate was and still is clever and hard-working. She did do the work, the help she got just made the finished project better so she got A’s. The time she saves also allowed her to study more for the LSAT because her laundry was getting done for her too (she either dropped it off at home which was in a wealthy area within an hour drive or her mom came and picked it up so their maid could wash the clothes and dry cleaning could be taken care of).

So many successful students got help like this. Obviously many didn’t but seeing how helpful other parents were was such a shock. I remember doing a group project at a friend’s house whose parents were from Korea. All evening and into late night her mom made us tea, brought us snacks, her dad went to buy more supplies we needed for the science assignment. Everything was about supporting her education.

Other days studying math with her at her house I realized she had copies of the teacher’s edition of the math books we used at our high school. She did all the homework herself but was able to check to make sure every problem was solved correctly. If not she kept working at it until it was correct. All these things add up.

[Anonymous]

OP, doesn't your kids' school have them draft and work on the common app essay in English? They might already have working drafts for some reason they aren't telling you about. Even when my kid was taking AP Lit senior year they had to work with the teacher on the common app essay in that class.

[Anonymous]

This is absolutely insane.
I graduated HS in 2004 and my parents had absolutely nothing to do with my college app process. I drove myself to the SAT and my mother asked where I was going. I drove myself to Ann Arbor for an interview for a scholarship (2 hours) and again they had no idea what I was up to. I asked later why they were so hands-off and they said "If you couldn't do it yourself you wouldn't have been college material."
I suggest you bring home some community college literature and inform them that this is what next year will look like. Under NO circumstances should you be pulling an all nighter writing their essays. Unreal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are families who are paying for someone to do the applications for their kids, some families are doing the applications for their kids, some are just helping out by starting the application and filling in all the details, some are writing essays for their children, and some students are doing everything all by themselves.

College is such a huge investment and applications can be so overwhelming. I am not sure it means if you do the application all by yourself if you end up doing better in college and life.

My college roommate at Berkeley had parents who reviewed and if needed corrected/edited all of her homework in high school and continued to do so in college. Additionally, her father’s secretary or mother typed many of her papers. Her sorority had files of old tests in many classes. This helped her to have all A’s.

She’s now partner at a top firm. All of that extra time left her able to socialize and develop really good emotional intelligence/social skills.

I never had any help from my parents. When I had kids I realized that was a huge disadvantage.

Maybe OP your husband realizes this so wants to help.

Yeah neither did I, nor my spouse, yet we excelled at our ivies and are successful partners in our careers(MD, JD). We knew many like your college buddy whose parents did tons: most do not end up successful or if they do they have huge procrastination and life management issues, divorce, alcohol, etc. We would never do what your roommate had done for her. We proofread when asked. Guess what ours are both at T10/different ivy from us, and are excelling! The peers there that have struggled most had parents who hovered and micromanaged them in high school and beyond.
It builds character and pride in oneself to do your own work with parents as sidelines cheerleaders (and tuition payers) only.
For the OP: your DH is in the wrong, completely. I agree you should set deadline for Oct 1 for drafts of the apps due Oct15. Do not discuss it after that , do not remind at all, and check in on Oct 1. Take the car away if they aren’t done. Let them leave the later apps until xmas break.

That hasn’t been my experience. Like my college roommate, classmates with parental help are actually more successful than ones that didn’t get any help. Perhaps it is more due to socio-economics as it was upper middle class and wealthy classmates who were getting help.

The ones getting helped knew how to work the system. My roommate was and still is clever and hard-working. She did do the work, the help she got just made the finished project better so she got A’s. The time she saves also allowed her to study more for the LSAT because her laundry was getting done for her too (she either dropped it off at home which was in a wealthy area within an hour drive or her mom came and picked it up so their maid could wash the clothes and dry cleaning could be taken care of).

So many successful students got help like this. Obviously many didn’t but seeing how helpful other parents were was such a shock. I remember doing a group project at a friend’s house whose parents were from Korea. All evening and into late night her mom made us tea, brought us snacks, her dad went to buy more supplies we needed for the science assignment. Everything was about supporting her education.

Other days studying math with her at her house I realized she had copies of the teacher’s edition of the math books we used at our high school. She did all the homework herself but was able to check to make sure every problem was solved correctly. If not she kept working at it until it was correct. All these things add up.

DP. You stated your experience, and PP responded with a counter perspective, but now you need to restate it? And, previously, you suggested your roommate cheated her way through the tests on file.

I'm with PP. This is all so extreme and an outlier, unless the "supportive" parents also hooked her up with law school admission and job offers which sounds entirely possible with this scenario.

There is a big difference between support and coddle and between either and cheating. When parents write for students, that is cheating, not support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have (just turned) 18 year old senior twins. Both are great students and have strong test scores.
They will not address much college related. We went on many tours, they have lists.
One is 80% there with the personal statement, one is 20% there.
Both have done nothing more.
They have all sorts of applications that are due on Oct 15 and more due Nov 1.
They refuse to do anything related to these. It's another Saturday and they're sitting on their phones. So far it's been solid phones from 10am to 1pm.
One has afternoon/evening plans today, one has evening plans.
Tomorrow they'll do homework.

I know they are planning on us (parents) on bailing them out.
My husband says he'll just go ahead and write their supplemental essays, etc. when the deadlines hit.
He REFUSES to take away privileges, etc. in the meantime. For instance, he would never take away the car tonight and insist they stay at home vs. go out all afternoon and evening. There's not much I can do with zero buy-in from him.
This infuriates me. I think it teaches horrible life lessons, etc.
I really feel that my one kid especially needs to just learn a giant lesson from this: he is 18 and at some point he needs to know that we won't bail him out. That his actions (or lack of actions) have consequences. He doesn't get stuff done? He takes a gap year. He works. I refuse to spend an all-nighter in mid October writing his essays.

Thoughts? It's causing INSANE friction in my marriage.
I am seriously contemplating just leaving for a month and moving in with a friend. They (the kids) know they can ask me anytime for help but I will not outright write these essays on the final day.

Do they want to go to college? No do not write their essays. Is your dh going to do their work if they get in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is absolutely insane.
I graduated HS in 2004 and my parents had absolutely nothing to do with my college app process. I drove myself to the SAT and my mother asked where I was going. I drove myself to Ann Arbor for an interview for a scholarship (2 hours) and again they had no idea what I was up to. I asked later why they were so hands-off and they said "If you couldn't do it yourself you wouldn't have been college material."
I suggest you bring home some community college literature and inform them that this is what next year will look like. Under NO circumstances should you be pulling an all nighter writing their essays. Unreal.

dp I think there is a happy medium between your parents and op. You can help without being totally hands off and also pull back if they don't want to do anything!

[Anonymous]

Op, this is their sink or swim moment! Let them be, they will be a okay~

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have (just turned) 18 year old senior twins. Both are great students and have strong test scores.
They will not address much college related. We went on many tours, they have lists.
One is 80% there with the personal statement, one is 20% there.
Both have done nothing more.
They have all sorts of applications that are due on Oct 15 and more due Nov 1.
They refuse to do anything related to these. It's another Saturday and they're sitting on their phones. So far it's been solid phones from 10am to 1pm.
One has afternoon/evening plans today, one has evening plans.
Tomorrow they'll do homework.

I know they are planning on us (parents) on bailing them out.
My husband says he'll just go ahead and write their supplemental essays, etc. when the deadlines hit.
He REFUSES to take away privileges, etc. in the meantime. For instance, he would never take away the car tonight and insist they stay at home vs. go out all afternoon and evening. There's not much I can do with zero buy-in from him.
This infuriates me. I think it teaches horrible life lessons, etc.
I really feel that my one kid especially needs to just learn a giant lesson from this: he is 18 and at some point he needs to know that we won't bail him out. That his actions (or lack of actions) have consequences. He doesn't get stuff done? He takes a gap year. He works. I refuse to spend an all-nighter in mid October writing his essays.

Thoughts? It's causing INSANE friction in my marriage.
I am seriously contemplating just leaving for a month and moving in with a friend. They (the kids) know they can ask me anytime for help but I will not outright write these essays on the final day.

OP- I hired a tutor to help my kids write their essays. Was worth every penny. They are much more likely to listen to an impartial adult. Then I did not have to stress about it or bribe them (well maybe to go to the tutor haha) Especially for the boys, these days with video games and social media it's a constant struggle.

[Anonymous]

My kid hasn't even started his essay. I'm not freaking out yet. I think you are a little over the top OP.

Your husband writing their essays makes me sick. Can't you tell him what a moral failing this would be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is absolutely insane.
I graduated HS in 2004 and my parents had absolutely nothing to do with my college app process. I drove myself to the SAT and my mother asked where I was going. I drove myself to Ann Arbor for an interview for a scholarship (2 hours) and again they had no idea what I was up to. I asked later why they were so hands-off and they said "If you couldn't do it yourself you wouldn't have been college material."
I suggest you bring home some community college literature and inform them that this is what next year will look like. Under NO circumstances should you be pulling an all nighter writing their essays. Unreal.

OP here. This was me. I drove myself to the SAT, i picked out the schools I was interested in, I wrote all my essays. My parents didn't even know where I applied and only found out once the acceptances arrived in the mailbox. In contrast, my husband's mom helped him with everything. I think this is generational.

[Anonymous]

Late to the party here. OP, in answer to your question, it feels like you are over-reacting. There is still plenty of time, particularly when measured on the teenager timeframe. Plus, if they miss EA, is it really the end of the world? These are your final days with them in the house. Why turn it into a disciplinary World War III - which won't work anyway. Also, DH hasn't been given an opportunity to represent his perspectives here -- so for those of you advising divorce over the writing of essays, perhaps it is worth thinking a bit more deeply before coming to that conclusion. Perhaps he is just saying out loud that he'll write the essays as an attempt to turn down the level of concern and heat that is apparent in OP's post? Perhaps DH is fully expecting the kids to step up and is just buying time? Perhaps what DH really means is that he will provide advice and support when the kids are ready?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid hasn't even started his essay. I'm not freaking out yet. I think you are a little over the top OP.

Your husband writing their essays makes me sick. Can't you tell him what a moral failing this would be?

If OP is a little over the top (and I agree with that assessment), then perhaps the characterization of her husband is also a little over the top as well?

[Anonymous]

Take away all privileges until it's done, phone, car etc....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son with severe ADHD needed all the help he could get from me, and since he was grateful for the help and tried hard to not get too distracted, I felt he deserved it.

You need to be on board with helping, but you also need to take the car keys and nix the pocket money, and possibly the phone on weekends. Carrot AND stick, OP. It's not one or the other. Your husband is the carrot, you are the stick. The decisions your kids make for their college applications will have long-term consequences: don't let your anxiety and anger hamper their future now, but do exert just the right amount of pressure so they do some of the work.

It's a team effort!

Me again.

I wanted to clarify that DS filled everything out himself (two years ago), but due to his inattentive ADHD, I was right there to stop the daydreaming and Youtubing (his particular addiction). I hovered in his vicinity every damm weekend with my laptop and cup of tea, magically available to help at the drop of a hat, and with eyes in the back of my head. He asked me to double-check his apps for typos, and to fill out parental background which he was unaware of. I did the FAFSA and CSS and just asked him to sign. His essays took the longest, most agonizing and laborious time, because of his difficulties talking about himself and his abysmal processing speed. This is where I had to edit heavily, and for some essays, suggest complete reworks. He took some of my suggestions and made changes, but kept his own voice and ideas, which was the goal.

My husband did nothing except to sign the checks.

OP here. Did your son agree to do this (Sit at the table with his laptop, filling out forms)? Mine refuses. He has every excuse why he can't. He either goes out with friends, to school games or sits in his room with his phone for 10-12 hours a day, watching Youtube. He then does homework on Sundays so always has (and continues to be) good with that.
My husband won't police his cell phone or internet use (never has) so it's hard to override it.

Again, my son is independent with getting homework done. He's good about this. But he won't independently engage with anything college related and the weeks keep ticking by.

He did agree, after I pitched a fit and yelled the house down and made dire and ugly predictions about his career prospects and general predispositions The point was to put the fear of MOM in him, so I did not hold back. The screens went away. I laid down the law, OP. When I get like that with my kids, they comply, because it happens extremely rarely. I'm usually a calm, loving parent and I understand they need downtime. But during college app season, downtime is hard to come by, and I wanted his college applications to be priority number 1. He eventually got with the program.

Also... I didn't start off by pitching a fit. I had been gently suggesting he write his essays the summer before the start of senior year, because I knew doing it all in the fall would be incredibly stressful. But his severe ADHD makes it really hard for him to not procrastinate. He can only perform under pressure, I guess. So we had to do it the hard way.