Just accepting unequal division of labor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What would change if you divorced? You would still be doing everything yourself and making all the money.

Someone always comes on these threads to say this, and I always wonder if it’s the same person that walks around the house leaving a trail of dirty dishes. How is it not obvious? What would change is that she would clean the house, and it would stay clean. She wouldn’t be picking up cereal bowls from beside the bed. She wouldn’t be living some with someone who is actively watching her spin her wheels while he sits on the couch scrolling on his phone. She would have a peaceful home with some control over her environment. Would she be single? Yes. And likely have to negotiate custody? Yes. For many women, that’s preferable, and that should explain how intolerable her current situation is. She’s already working and outearning her husband. I swear, the absence of expectations of men is appalling.

That’s a half baked response to projecting how divorce, custody time plays out with an ADHD father coparent.

Try again.

Play out how coparenting looks with someone like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband has ASD/ADHD, and refuses to get treatment. He has control issues and refuses to let me handle certain things. I couldn't do it all anyway, but when he messes up, I wish I could have prevented it.

So I prioritize:

1. Kids' wellbeing. I see they're fed on time, decently clothed, get to school on time, get picked up on time, have doctors' appointments, vaccines, etc, pay for their activities and remember their recitals and other important dates. I was particularly vigilant for oldest's college admissions process and tuition payment, because my husband is a problematic money manager and money sometimes isn't available when we need it. I have been the primary parent forever, and as a result, my kids have a much better relationship with me than they have with their father.

2. I look after myself. I dress nicely, I try to look after my needs, see my friends outside of the house, and generally try to be happy with what I have.

Which means that everything else falls by the wayside. The house is always cluttered and messy, because he has hoarding tendencies and never tidies up after himself. He stuffs it so full, the things at the back are forgotten and rot. The yard is entirely given over to my husband's "gardening" initiatives, which means it's a mess. Sometimes a very flowery one, except he never puts away any tools or soil bags or plastic containers, so it's looks like a flowery dump. He insists the cars are his responsibility - which means they're never maintained as they should be, they're horribly dirty, one of them has ugly body damage, and we drove around for a while with a dangerously overheating engine for several months because he screamed and yelled he was going to fix it and didn't. He has interesting ideas on his own self-care, never goes to see any doctor, always uses the same 3 outfits until they fall off him. He controls finances, and always forgets to file taxes on time. His autistic-related anxiety and need for control make any discussion about problems in the house entirely impossible.

So there you go. I am very deliberate in what I will take on. If others are offended by the state of our yard or cars or whatever, that's just too bad for them.

Same here. I am usually reluctant to think if his poor habits, behaviors and communications as his need to control. Control it off his plate. But maybe it is.
He also fixates on weird stuff that must have been drilled in to him from his mother (fil has ASD too).

Oh well!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband has ASD/ADHD, and refuses to get treatment. He has control issues and refuses to let me handle certain things. I couldn't do it all anyway, but when he messes up, I wish I could have prevented it.

So I prioritize:

1. Kids' wellbeing. I see they're fed on time, decently clothed, get to school on time, get picked up on time, have doctors' appointments, vaccines, etc, pay for their activities and remember their recitals and other important dates. I was particularly vigilant for oldest's college admissions process and tuition payment, because my husband is a problematic money manager and money sometimes isn't available when we need it. I have been the primary parent forever, and as a result, my kids have a much better relationship with me than they have with their father.

2. I look after myself. I dress nicely, I try to look after my needs, see my friends outside of the house, and generally try to be happy with what I have.

Which means that everything else falls by the wayside. The house is always cluttered and messy, because he has hoarding tendencies and never tidies up after himself. He stuffs it so full, the things at the back are forgotten and rot. The yard is entirely given over to my husband's "gardening" initiatives, which means it's a mess. Sometimes a very flowery one, except he never puts away any tools or soil bags or plastic containers, so it's looks like a flowery dump. He insists the cars are his responsibility - which means they're never maintained as they should be, they're horribly dirty, one of them has ugly body damage, and we drove around for a while with a dangerously overheating engine for several months because he screamed and yelled he was going to fix it and didn't. He has interesting ideas on his own self-care, never goes to see any doctor, always uses the same 3 outfits until they fall off him. He controls finances, and always forgets to file taxes on time. His autistic-related anxiety and need for control make any discussion about problems in the house entirely impossible.

So there you go. I am very deliberate in what I will take on. If others are offended by the state of our yard or cars or whatever, that's just too bad for them.

Same here. I am usually reluctant to think if his poor habits, behaviors and communications as his need to control. Control it off his plate. But maybe it is.
He also fixates on weird stuff that must have been drilled in to him from his mother (fil has ASD too).

Oh well!

Man, that sounds stressful. You and the PP should be proud of what you are doing to prioritize and raise your children well. That sort of action in the face of adversity should be commended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens if you assign him a list of chores (doing the executive function piece for him) each night so it’s not just you sitting there catching up while he unwinds?

For me that’s the thing that would just be unacceptable.

“I’m tired, I need to watch tv. I had a long day. I didn’t sleep well again. I was up early, working.”

DP, but this. There is always an excuse.

A lot of this comes down to a game of chicken where my DH is willing to let a lot of things about our kids and our home get REALLY bad before he would step in and actually take the lead on them. And even then, he'd start with "Hey I noticed the kids fingernails are really long and dirty, we should probably do something about that" before actually doing anything -- "we" in this case means me.

I think I'd have to get like a terminal disease before he'd actually rouse himself to do a lot of this stuff, and even then I know he'd panic and be telling me that he just could never in a million years figure out how to sign our kids up for summer camp on his own, can I do it?

I think if I died, he'd get his mom to come live with him. But she's almost 80.

I can't die.

[Anonymous]

Same here.

I redid my will and PoA to be my maid of honor until the kids are age 22. Not him, he can make decisions that make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens if you assign him a list of chores (doing the executive function piece for him) each night so it’s not just you sitting there catching up while he unwinds?

For me that’s the thing that would just be unacceptable.

“I’m tired, I need to watch tv. I had a long day. I didn’t sleep well again. I was up early, working.”

DP, but this. There is always an excuse.

A lot of this comes down to a game of chicken where my DH is willing to let a lot of things about our kids and our home get REALLY bad before he would step in and actually take the lead on them. And even then, he'd start with "Hey I noticed the kids fingernails are really long and dirty, we should probably do something about that" before actually doing anything -- "we" in this case means me.

I think I'd have to get like a terminal disease before he'd actually rouse himself to do a lot of this stuff, and even then I know he'd panic and be telling me that he just could never in a million years figure out how to sign our kids up for summer camp on his own, can I do it?

I think if I died, he'd get his mom to come live with him. But she's almost 80.

I can't die.

This is me. Especially the bolded but also his mom. Whenever I have work travel he packs up the kids and fully moves into his parents’ house.

I ended up going part time because I just couldn’t take the imbalance anymore. It was killing me and any joy from our marriage.

But the difference between me and OP is he always made enough money to support the family on his own (we were double biglaw most of our marriage). The money thing on top of everything else would really push me over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the long post from 9:39. Especially this part, which is what my DH is lacking:

"Third, my parents raised me to internalize the idea that if others are working, you shouldn't be sitting on your a@@ watching. I teach my kids the same thing. If I am clearing the table, they damn well better be helping, unless they are doing homework or something like that. OP's DH needs to accept that that is the case. No one relaxes until everyone relaxes."

I will say that my DH seems to get this. He didn't always, but I started telling him a few years ago, around when our DC was old enough to be able to observe he dynamic, that I really didn't want our kid growing up thinking "mommies clean and daddies relax." Especially because that is EXACTLY what my home was like growing up -- my mom would make dinner and clean and watch the kids while my dad would come home from work and put his feet up like the dad on the Donna Reed show. It was the 80s! And my mom would have spent the entire day taking care of 4 kids with zero household help, plus she had a part time job, so it's not like he'd been working and she hadn't. Once I explained this to my DH, it clicked for him why it would be really bad for our kid to watch this dynamic unfold.

The workload is still really uneven but he generally doesn't sit around watching me clean. Granted, he does not clean, aside from occasionally doing a single kitchen task (like he will unload the dishwasher but he will not actually clean the kitchen). But if I'm cleaning, he will generally busy himself with something, start a load of laundry, chop some veggies, help DC with homework, something. It doesn't make up for all the stuff I do during other parts of the day, or the mental load, but it's at least a start.

[Anonymous]

Very similar situation here. Some things that have helped us (though not 100% solved):

1. Marriage counseling. We went to Well Marriage in VA and she met with us both separately and together. I suspect that in her private session with him she told him to grow tf up, not in so many words. She told me to stop being so controlling and let him fail sometimes.

2. Chore chart. Marriage counselor suggested this and it's been great because DH likes routine (ymmv). Dinner, dishes, bedtime, making kid lunches, trash collection are on the chart. School forms and cleaning aren't.

3. Weekly standing appointments. This also from the counselor. We have a midweek business meeting where we talk about the next 7-10 days and what needs to happen, like getting a birthday gift. And we have a Friday date night where we don't talk about kids or family at all: we go out, or watch TV together.

4. He took a step back at work, and went remote. It was a financial hit but he's so much happier in the job he has, and him being at home takes off a lot of schedule pressure.

[Anonymous]

I am an adult with ADHD AND an introvert who needs alone time - and neither is an excuse for not pulling my weight at home.

If he doesn’t already, he needs meds and routines/systems. He may benefit from executive functioning coaching. The crap part is that you also may need to change the way you do some things to support him. My husband resists certain things (like the way I prefer him to add calendar items to our schedule). He thought I was messing stuff up because I didn’t care or wasn’t trying - but I literally could not understand or remember his way. He finally accepted that supporting me to be successful benefits both of us because I can take on more admin tasks and not drop the ball.
For me, it’s little stuff. I need him to “invite” me to events on MY calendar and not expect me to use multiple calendars. He needs to ask me questions and make plans mid-morning when my meds kick in, not at 10pm when my meds have worn off. We each have chores and kid items that we prefer or are better at - we try to lean into our individual strengths instead of trying to be someone we are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the long post from 9:39. Especially this part, which is what my DH is lacking:

"Third, my parents raised me to internalize the idea that if others are working, you shouldn't be sitting on your a@@ watching. I teach my kids the same thing. If I am clearing the table, they damn well better be helping, unless they are doing homework or something like that. OP's DH needs to accept that that is the case. No one relaxes until everyone relaxes."

I very much have this mindset but I've come to realize that DH just runs on a different schedule. I want to get everything done after kids go to bed so I'm done for the day. He wants to lay around forever then finish it up at like 10 (or sometimes go to bed with it unfinished). It drives me crazy mainly b/c I don't feel like I can relax until I'm certain it'll be done and since he's not 100% on following through, I'm not certain it'll be done. But my desire to do it right away isn't somehow inherently more correct than his desire to relax awhile before chores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really appreciated the long post from 9:39. Especially this part, which is what my DH is lacking:

"Third, my parents raised me to internalize the idea that if others are working, you shouldn't be sitting on your a@@ watching. I teach my kids the same thing. If I am clearing the table, they damn well better be helping, unless they are doing homework or something like that. OP's DH needs to accept that that is the case. No one relaxes until everyone relaxes."

I very much have this mindset but I've come to realize that DH just runs on a different schedule. I want to get everything done after kids go to bed so I'm done for the day. He wants to lay around forever then finish it up at like 10 (or sometimes go to bed with it unfinished). It drives me crazy mainly b/c I don't feel like I can relax until I'm certain it'll be done and since he's not 100% on following through, I'm not certain it'll be done. But my desire to do it right away isn't somehow inherently more correct than his desire to relax awhile before chores.

I think this is a really important and self-aware point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My marriage had been really tainted by the inequity in our workload. Dh has adhd. Likely in large part because of this, I do the lions share of everything. I make about 4x the salary, work much much harder; and have to remember almost all of the kid and household admin. It’s not that he *wont* do it but it’s sort of positioned as that he *cannot* do as much as me and therefore would just - if left to own devices - let many many many things slide (clean clothes/ kids shower/ kids eat any vegetables/ submit mandatory forms to school/ buy birthday presents for other kids parties etc etc). I sit there every night working and doing admin till I go to bed basically while he unwinds. I do not want to share time with kids and I know the dcum party line is don’t divorce unless it’s awful. And he does have in theory many good qualities. But the inequity in our relationship is just bananas. I have addressed it all I can and this is the best it’s going to get. Is there any solution?

How old are your kids?

Can you hire more help? Sounds like maybe someone to deliver premade meals could help. An accountant to do your finances? Tutors to help kids with hw?

I think the only solution is to program him to do more simple tasks. I’m sorry, but if he can follow a list he should be able to do showers for the kids, dishes, wipe counters, trash, run loads of laundry and fold, pack lunches, etc. Sit him down and say I’m working for hours after work and I need you to help me with XYZ so I can have time to wind down also.

TeuxDeux is a good app with a list that you can program to have daily repeatable items. Maybe you can even share an account and add things to it.

Try to simplify your life as much as possible. Buy multiples of one or two kinds of birthday presents and a pack of ten bags. Do some of the kid admin on your lunch break.

Did someone actually think that "deux" is pronounced "do?" That's pretty embarrassing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry. I have no advice because I’m in the same boat. I have accepted that my DH must have executive dysfunction.

I’m a stay at home mom, so it’s A LOT more manageable than your situation, but it still sucks. I’m literally never off the clock. I think I’m working harder than ever. It’s sad that I actually prefer when he’s at work because when he’s home I’m just constantly picking up after him. He leaves dirty clothes, dirty diapers, dirty dishes scattered all over the house. He doesn’t even follow our baby’s schedule when he’s with her after work and on the evenings, making my life even harder.

Somehow he doesn’t see when the dishwasher needs to be loaded or emptied, when the dogs need water, when the refrigerator needs to be cleaned out, when the counters need to be wiped down, when the trash needs to be taken out, when laundry needs to be done or just put away, when bottles need to be washed, when the diaper bag needs to be stocked, when literally anything needs to be done. On the rare occasion he has done a load of laundry he has left it in the washer for days (he’s done this multiple times). Oh, and this week. (And too many weeks to count) he failed to bring the trash to the street. Out of pure laziness. I also do every single night waking.

I’m trying so hard to be the perfect wife and mother for him. Dinner on the table when he gets home. He even has the nerve to ask me to make his lunch in the morning while I’m caring for myself, our two dogs, and our baby.

He tells me to tell him what to do, like, hello!? Open your eyes!? I tried telling him that this is more mental work for me. He just doesn’t get it and I don’t think he ever will. Other times when I do ask him, he tells me he’s too tired (I’m tired too!) or that he will get to it later (Surprise, later never comes). Lately I’ve been fantasizing about separating/divorcing.

Well, before divorcing, just try growing a backbone.

Lol. NP.

As if we haven’t called them out on not doing what they basic stuff agreed to do.

They either turn into a raging lunatic then or quickly flip the switch into Victim of a B!!tch mantra. Their parents taught them they are always right and just fine.

+1000

YES! This describes it perfectly. How do they all seem to follow the exact same playbook? Baffling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My marriage had been really tainted by the inequity in our workload. Dh has adhd. Likely in large part because of this, I do the lions share of everything. I make about 4x the salary, work much much harder; and have to remember almost all of the kid and household admin. It’s not that he *wont* do it but it’s sort of positioned as that he *cannot* do as much as me and therefore would just - if left to own devices - let many many many things slide (clean clothes/ kids shower/ kids eat any vegetables/ submit mandatory forms to school/ buy birthday presents for other kids parties etc etc). I sit there every night working and doing admin till I go to bed basically while he unwinds. I do not want to share time with kids and I know the dcum party line is don’t divorce unless it’s awful. And he does have in theory many good qualities. But the inequity in our relationship is just bananas. I have addressed it all I can and this is the best it’s going to get. Is there any solution?

How old are your kids?

Can you hire more help? Sounds like maybe someone to deliver premade meals could help. An accountant to do your finances? Tutors to help kids with hw?

I think the only solution is to program him to do more simple tasks. I’m sorry, but if he can follow a list he should be able to do showers for the kids, dishes, wipe counters, trash, run loads of laundry and fold, pack lunches, etc. Sit him down and say I’m working for hours after work and I need you to help me with XYZ so I can have time to wind down also.

TeuxDeux is a good app with a list that you can program to have daily repeatable items. Maybe you can even share an account and add things to it.

Try to simplify your life as much as possible. Buy multiples of one or two kinds of birthday presents and a pack of ten bags. Do some of the kid admin on your lunch break.

Did someone actually think that "deux" is pronounced "do?" That's pretty embarrassing.

That’s pretty similar to how it sounds in French (like un, deux, trois), what are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

The "no one relaxes until everyone relaxes" point resonated with me too. I solved this by whenever my DH sat, I sat. If dinner needed to be made and he was sitting on the couch checking sports scores, I'd sit down and pull out my phone right next to him. He figured out pretty quickly that if was folding laundry or helping a kid with homework I'd start dinner (or if I was the one doing laundry/HW he'd start dinner).