How to handle a kid who does not want a Bar Mitzvah

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sure, you can make him do it, but you can't make him believe it. Don't tell him that he should do it for you. Your happiness is not his responsibility.

OP here, him getting a Bar Mitzvah doesn't make me happier. I signed him up for religious school because I think it will make him happier in the long run to be connected to Judaism and to have gone through the preparation for a Bar Mitzvah. I have obviously told him this and also talked to him about how the religion has been helpful in my own life (having a minyan to say kaddish with after the death of a family member etc). I guess on some level this is a question of when a parents should put their foot down vs let their kids make their own mistakes and decisions. But this Bar Mitzvah is not for show. My parents are not alive and I don't really care about impressing the rest of my family.

If you force him to do it, it is for show. You are forcing him to publicly declare something that isn’t true to him in his place of worship. Why would you want him to lie? Not all seeds grow at the same rate. This sounds like a kid who knows who he is and what he believes now and is comfortable sticking to that. That is a really terrific quality. Why would you want to undermine that? Lots of parents think their kids will be happier if they do this or that but that doesn’t make it true. He is more likely to choose his faith in a real, more enduring way in his own time if you give him room to search and grow in his own way. Vines are trained gently and with support, not force. You need to understand the nature of the vine and work with that nature to get the best result.

Are you Jewish? Bar Mitzvah's don't require kids to publicly declare things. He would read from the Torah and then interpret that text. His interpretation could be "this story seems wrong and I don't believe on God." As long as it was well thought out and respectful that would be fine. I have definitely been to Bar Mitzvahs where the child said he disagreed with the text. after all there is a lot of crazy stuff in the old testament!

+1 It's not a declaration of faith. It's not like Catholic confirmation or baptism. It's just reading from the Torah and other texts, and/or helping to lead a service in prayer. Judaism sets great store by performance of the prayer even if you personally are ambivalent or worse about it.

But forcing him to do it doesn't seem great either if he feels that strongly. Why not compromise - he has to finish out religious school to the point of bar mitzvah, so he has the foundation should he ever want it in the future. But he doesn't have to prepare for or have a bar mitzvah. It's easy enough to do a bar mitzvah later if he wants one. A lot less easy to pick up the foundational knowledge and especially Hebrew reading.

He would be accepting the obligations that come with being and adult member of the community with no intent to actually do that. That’s a lie. I mean do whatever you want but you can’t make him value the same things as you. If he’s truly and adult at 13 then let him make adult decisions about his faith.

But see, actual faith is a private matter. Sustaining membership in the community across generations is a family matter- and not just for the parents, for the ancestors and descendants too. It's a very different mindset.

Judaism isn’t just some club you sustain membership in, a Bar Mitzvah is focused on the faith of the child. While you can teach cultural aspects, at some point the child must be free to decide for themselves where their heart lies on the matter. If you are putting the child first, and not merely “sustaining membership”, you should care more about how the child feels than the other people around you.

The Bar Mitzvah isn't focused on the faith of the child. Where are you getting that? No one is talking to the child about believing in God or the importance of the child believing in God.

A big part is reading and interpreting scripture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, you can make him do it, but you can't make him believe it. Don't tell him that he should do it for you. Your happiness is not his responsibility.

OP here, him getting a Bar Mitzvah doesn't make me happier. I signed him up for religious school because I think it will make him happier in the long run to be connected to Judaism and to have gone through the preparation for a Bar Mitzvah. I have obviously told him this and also talked to him about how the religion has been helpful in my own life (having a minyan to say kaddish with after the death of a family member etc). I guess on some level this is a question of when a parents should put their foot down vs let their kids make their own mistakes and decisions. But this Bar Mitzvah is not for show. My parents are not alive and I don't really care about impressing the rest of my family.

If you force him to do it, it is for show. You are forcing him to publicly declare something that isn’t true to him in his place of worship. Why would you want him to lie? Not all seeds grow at the same rate. This sounds like a kid who knows who he is and what he believes now and is comfortable sticking to that. That is a really terrific quality. Why would you want to undermine that? Lots of parents think their kids will be happier if they do this or that but that doesn’t make it true. He is more likely to choose his faith in a real, more enduring way in his own time if you give him room to search and grow in his own way. Vines are trained gently and with support, not force. You need to understand the nature of the vine and work with that nature to get the best result.

Are you Jewish? Bar Mitzvah's don't require kids to publicly declare things. He would read from the Torah and then interpret that text. His interpretation could be "this story seems wrong and I don't believe on God." As long as it was well thought out and respectful that would be fine. I have definitely been to Bar Mitzvahs where the child said he disagreed with the text. after all there is a lot of crazy stuff in the old testament!

+1 It's not a declaration of faith. It's not like Catholic confirmation or baptism. It's just reading from the Torah and other texts, and/or helping to lead a service in prayer. Judaism sets great store by performance of the prayer even if you personally are ambivalent or worse about it.

But forcing him to do it doesn't seem great either if he feels that strongly. Why not compromise - he has to finish out religious school to the point of bar mitzvah, so he has the foundation should he ever want it in the future. But he doesn't have to prepare for or have a bar mitzvah. It's easy enough to do a bar mitzvah later if he wants one. A lot less easy to pick up the foundational knowledge and especially Hebrew reading.

He would be accepting the obligations that come with being and adult member of the community with no intent to actually do that. That’s a lie. I mean do whatever you want but you can’t make him value the same things as you. If he’s truly and adult at 13 then let him make adult decisions about his faith.

But see, actual faith is a private matter. Sustaining membership in the community across generations is a family matter- and not just for the parents, for the ancestors and descendants too. It's a very different mindset.

Judaism isn’t just some club you sustain membership in, a Bar Mitzvah is focused on the faith of the child. While you can teach cultural aspects, at some point the child must be free to decide for themselves where their heart lies on the matter. If you are putting the child first, and not merely “sustaining membership”, you should care more about how the child feels than the other people around you.

The Bar Mitzvah isn't focused on the faith of the child. Where are you getting that? No one is talking to the child about believing in God or the importance of the child believing in God.

A big part is reading and interpreting scripture.

Which you can do in a way that does not assume a faith in God (our rabbi does not assume a faith in God in her sermons, not sure why a Bar Mitzvah would be expected to)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, you can make him do it, but you can't make him believe it. Don't tell him that he should do it for you. Your happiness is not his responsibility.

OP here, him getting a Bar Mitzvah doesn't make me happier. I signed him up for religious school because I think it will make him happier in the long run to be connected to Judaism and to have gone through the preparation for a Bar Mitzvah. I have obviously told him this and also talked to him about how the religion has been helpful in my own life (having a minyan to say kaddish with after the death of a family member etc). I guess on some level this is a question of when a parents should put their foot down vs let their kids make their own mistakes and decisions. But this Bar Mitzvah is not for show. My parents are not alive and I don't really care about impressing the rest of my family.

Your religious practices may not bring him any level of comfort. My parents forced me into religious classes, teaching, and rites of passage. I hated it and din't have a choice in the matter. As a result, I am firmly non-practicing and do not intend to support religion ever. Perhaps if they had let me lead, it would've been different. I suggest you try that. If he wants Judaism on any level, he can study and/or practice as he gets older.

It sounds like you have a problem with your parents, not religion.

It sounds like you have a problem understanding anything that challenges your already existing beliefs.

[Anonymous]

It's sad to me that kids are forced to "do" religion even when they don't want to. Why can't they choose? It's not a matter of health and safety, or developing their brains. I don't let my kids skip brushing their teeth or go out of school, but if they wanted to stop going to religious services or not participate in ceremonies, I would let them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's sad to me that kids are forced to "do" religion even when they don't want to. Why can't they choose? It's not a matter of health and safety, or developing their brains. I don't let my kids skip brushing their teeth or go out of school, but if they wanted to stop going to religious services or not participate in ceremonies, I would let them.

They're "doing" ancestral and community connection to maintain a chain thousands of years old. It isn't "religion" in the Protestant sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's sad to me that kids are forced to "do" religion even when they don't want to. Why can't they choose? It's not a matter of health and safety, or developing their brains. I don't let my kids skip brushing their teeth or go out of school, but if they wanted to stop going to religious services or not participate in ceremonies, I would let them.

They're "doing" ancestral and community connection to maintain a chain thousands of years old. It isn't "religion" in the Protestant sense.

Clarification: being Jewish is thousands of years old. The ceremonial bar mitzvah is probably only a few hundred years old.

[Anonymous]

Why doesn't he consider himself Jewish? I could understand if he said he wasn't religious but not Jewish when born to Jewish parents? Where is he getting that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's sad to me that kids are forced to "do" religion even when they don't want to. Why can't they choose? It's not a matter of health and safety, or developing their brains. I don't let my kids skip brushing their teeth or go out of school, but if they wanted to stop going to religious services or not participate in ceremonies, I would let them.

They're "doing" ancestral and community connection to maintain a chain thousands of years old. It isn't "religion" in the Protestant sense.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's sad to me that kids are forced to "do" religion even when they don't want to. Why can't they choose? It's not a matter of health and safety, or developing their brains. I don't let my kids skip brushing their teeth or go out of school, but if they wanted to stop going to religious services or not participate in ceremonies, I would let them.

They're "doing" ancestral and community connection to maintain a chain thousands of years old. It isn't "religion" in the Protestant sense.

This.

You all standing by this and insisting on it is the reason generational trauma and guilt exists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's sad to me that kids are forced to "do" religion even when they don't want to. Why can't they choose? It's not a matter of health and safety, or developing their brains. I don't let my kids skip brushing their teeth or go out of school, but if they wanted to stop going to religious services or not participate in ceremonies, I would let them.

They're "doing" ancestral and community connection to maintain a chain thousands of years old. It isn't "religion" in the Protestant sense.

This.

You all standing by this and insisting on it is the reason generational trauma and guilt exists.

Read up on the benefits of religion - there are plenty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's sad to me that kids are forced to "do" religion even when they don't want to. Why can't they choose? It's not a matter of health and safety, or developing their brains. I don't let my kids skip brushing their teeth or go out of school, but if they wanted to stop going to religious services or not participate in ceremonies, I would let them.

They're "doing" ancestral and community connection to maintain a chain thousands of years old. It isn't "religion" in the Protestant sense.

This.

You all standing by this and insisting on it is the reason generational trauma and guilt exists.

Read up on the benefits of religion - there are plenty.

And I say that even as the person who doesn't believe in G*d.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's sad to me that kids are forced to "do" religion even when they don't want to. Why can't they choose? It's not a matter of health and safety, or developing their brains. I don't let my kids skip brushing their teeth or go out of school, but if they wanted to stop going to religious services or not participate in ceremonies, I would let them.

They're "doing" ancestral and community connection to maintain a chain thousands of years old. It isn't "religion" in the Protestant sense.

This.

You all standing by this and insisting on it is the reason generational trauma and guilt exists.

Read up on the benefits of religion - there are plenty.

I agree about the benefits of religion, but a person who doesn't want to do the work to become a bar mitzvah, i.e. an adult in the eyes of the Jewish community, should not be forced to do it. Part of the point is that the boy is "of age" to make this decision.

My son was a confirmation class dropout because he didn't want to be an adult in the eyes of a church he had no intention of participating in. At the time, he told us he was an atheist and the process had no meaning for him. We believed him and let him drop out. Fast-forward a decade, his views are the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t force religion on someone ever.

This. My mom forced me to go through Confirmation in the Catholic Church against my wishes. Not surprisingly, I do not go to church, don’t consider myself Catholic and have not raised my kids as Catholics. I also greatly resent my mom for pushing this on me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He can always do it later in life when the time is right for him. I do understand your disappointment, though.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's sad to me that kids are forced to "do" religion even when they don't want to. Why can't they choose? It's not a matter of health and safety, or developing their brains. I don't let my kids skip brushing their teeth or go out of school, but if they wanted to stop going to religious services or not participate in ceremonies, I would let them.

They're "doing" ancestral and community connection to maintain a chain thousands of years old. It isn't "religion" in the Protestant sense.

This.

You all standing by this and insisting on it is the reason generational trauma and guilt exists.

Perhaps. It is also the reason the Jewish people still exists. We are the people who remember. It is our most basic operating principle since Yavne.

Your ideas about guilt are rooted in Protestant individualism. We think in a fundamentally different way.

A pp brought up A Letter in the Scroll. Here's a famous quote from it: “I am a Jew because, knowing the story of my people, I hear their call to write the next chapter. I did not come from nowhere; I have a past, and if any past commands anyone this past commands me. I am a Jew because only if I remain a Jew will the story of a hundred generations live on in me. I continue their journey because, having come this far, I may not let it and them fail. I cannot be the missing letter in the scroll.”