URMs Feeling Pressure to Prove Themselves

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's terrible people say rude things. Your daughter sounds amazing. Congrats on her acceptances!

I sincerely doubt that anyone says what OP is claiming, and I’ve been active in both private and public high schools. No one says that

NP
Yes they do.
My friends dd was in technology focused magnet high school and she was told by students a lot of times how college admission will be easy for her.

Because it IS!

But it's not necessarily so. I have plenty of friends with children who are black, biracial, Latino/a, Asian, etc. Many of these kids didn't get into their ED and they were competitive applicants, especially the STEM ones. Some finally got in RD, but the idea that "college admission will be easy" is just not always the case.

Fair enough.. It may not be easy in the absolute sense but on a relative basis, it is FAR easier. The pp who posted after you shared some data on this. Look, it's a fact that intelligence and competence are evenly distributed across races (except maybe at the fringes) so your kid is absolutely as smart as the next one in his class. However, I bet there are kids in his class who have put in a far superior application package than yours and were denied at that same school.

My son had the grades, ECs and whatever to get into Harvard, but he did not. I'm sure a comparably qualified URM kid did. Good for them. but let's not kid ourselves as to why that kid is at Harvard and mine is not.

[Anonymous]

Nine states do not allow affirmative action for college admissions. Just apply to such colleges.

[Anonymous]

Black woman here
I definitely believe this story(from experience). It's unfortunate and depending on the field your kid wants to work in, situations worse than this may happen in their career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nine states do not allow affirmative action for college admissions. Just apply to such colleges.

OP's DC applied to "sought after universities", but you are saying others shouldn't bother and apply to others because...?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a biracial white-passing minority at an elite college in the 90s and knew immediately literally everyone in my class was far smarter and cutthroat. It was awful. And in January of my first year my advisors were trying to get me to consider the easiest majors just because I aced an easy intro class everyone aces. Not try harder and here’s some resources, they just wanted me in an easy department. Being the dumb kid sucks. EVERYONE know you only got in because of affirmative action. Not to say most peers are mean and won’t socialize with you, it’s just you can tell they know you’re not on their level.

Can you tell if this is a race baiting troll?

Or maybe telling an honest story, who knows?

They describe themselves as "white passing" and then says everyone thought they got in because of affirmative action. That does not make sense. Why would anyone think that if everyone thought they were "white?"

Troll.

The treatment that is discussed is by her advisors, not her peers. Advisors would see her race in her records.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When requirements are lower for certain groups (whether race, legacy, gender, etc) than for others, and where there are far more qualified candidates than available slots, it would seem simply correct to state that the people in those groups have an easier time being admitted and that there is not a level playing field. That doesn’t at all mean that they are not qualified and won’t do a terrific job, or won’t make the best and a terrific use of the opportunity. But to simultaneously state your legacy status, race, or gender on an application, knowing that it is to your benefit, and then to express frustration that others recognize this basic fact, seems disingenuous.

I personally am quite glad that there is affirmative action. I think it is good for our society and the right choice. I also know that, on average, my kids will need to score multiple hundreds of points higher than their wealthy URM and legacy classmates at the top of DC private. Is that fair or equitable on the small scale? I think not. Does it make sense to me on the wider scale? To me, yes. But that doesn’t mean that it is not social engineering and that some applicants are held to higher standards. I don’t think that it is inaccurate or offensive to point that out. It’s simply the truth of the policy choice that has been made. But when my daughter is around her primarily URM friends, and they kid her that she and two other girls (Indian descent) in their group should go study, because they actually have to do well on their ACTs, that’s feels true to her. And the kids all know and seem to accept it. Do any of the parents actually think the kids don’t see the different admissions standard applied to certain groups (race, legacy, in certain contexts gender)? They’ve been friends and in school together for years. They are friends, date each other, are in study groups together, etc. does anyone actually think they don’t see that lower grades/scores/activities are required for legacies and URMs, and for goodness sakes that their Asian friends are expected to walk on water to have the same admissions. Could anyone actually say otherwise, regardless of whether you think this is a good policy choice?

Same but with child at a DC magnet. DD did not apply ED to a top school as a legacy because she did not want people assuming she got in only because of the legacy.

[Anonymous]

Blame affirmative action

[Anonymous]

My son applied to top schools as an Asian boy ranked second in his class from a top private (not in DC) and was waitlisted or denied at most. He had top rigor, NMF, qualified for AIME couple of times and ranked for his activity nationally. Luckily, he managed to get into all the top publics for CS - Michigan, Berkeley and UCLA. As he went through the process, his classmates showed real grace and were often there to sympathize with him as he got the results. Everyone knows about college admissions as well as the kids. Even kids who got in as legacy, URM or athletic recruits were very gracious throughout the process. No one was in denail about the process.Thank God for public schools with race blind admissions, he had good choices. Now at Berkeley, he tells me that there are many kids who are as qualified or better qualified than him, so he seems happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a biracial white-passing minority at an elite college in the 90s and knew immediately literally everyone in my class was far smarter and cutthroat. It was awful. And in January of my first year my advisors were trying to get me to consider the easiest majors just because I aced an easy intro class everyone aces. Not try harder and here’s some resources, they just wanted me in an easy department. Being the dumb kid sucks. EVERYONE know you only got in because of affirmative action. Not to say most peers are mean and won’t socialize with you, it’s just you can tell they know you’re not on their level.

Can you tell if this is a race baiting troll?

Or maybe telling an honest story, who knows?

They describe themselves as "white passing" and then says everyone thought they got in because of affirmative action. That does not make sense. Why would anyone think that if everyone thought they were "white?"

Troll.

The treatment that is discussed is by her advisors, not her peers. Advisors would see her race in her records.

Impossible to make out a gender from that person's post. How have you come to know just that much more about them?

Troll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the ugly side of living in a highly educated “liberal” community. The hypocrisy in these comments is truly astounding.

Seems to me the people who are saying "this is what happens when we have aa" are the ones who probably don't support aa in college admissions. I don't see those comments as hypocritical. Your mistake is that you think everyone on dcum is a progressive liberal who supports aa. That's not the case.

Also, imagine being an Asian American, having high stats, all the right E.C.s, leadership positions, etc.. and still being passed over for someone with less stats than this student. Don't tell me you would not feel like it wasn't fair.

Yea, the system is not "fair'. Life's not fair. Tell that to OP.

The assumption is that all “high stat” kids are truly high stat. Google cheating at the HS level and the prevalence of cheating rings ie getting copies of the tests, taking photos and sharing the answers with other students, signaling the answers to multiple choice questions, having other students take the test for you, special accommodations, hacking computers to change grades, crowd sourcing homework etc. Varsity Blues exposed the despicable extent parents and kids are willing to go to obtain admittance to top schools.

What’s absurd and unimaginable is the fact that colleges, students and parents knew it was happening. But sure, blame the small percentages of URMs that actually make up college admissions. In fact, Asian students are over represented compared to their percentage of the US population. So no, I don’t believe URM should be singled out with snide comments any more than a female admit to a STEM program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the ugly side of living in a highly educated “liberal” community. The hypocrisy in these comments is truly astounding.

Seems to me the people who are saying "this is what happens when we have aa" are the ones who probably don't support aa in college admissions. I don't see those comments as hypocritical. Your mistake is that you think everyone on dcum is a progressive liberal who supports aa. That's not the case.

Also, imagine being an Asian American, having high stats, all the right E.C.s, leadership positions, etc.. and still being passed over for someone with less stats than this student. Don't tell me you would not feel like it wasn't fair.

Yea, the system is not "fair'. Life's not fair. Tell that to OP.

The assumption is that all “high stat” kids are truly high stat. Google cheating at the HS level and the prevalence of cheating rings ie getting copies of the tests, taking photos and sharing the answers with other students, signaling the answers to multiple choice questions, having other students take the test for you, special accommodations, hacking computers to change grades, crowd sourcing homework etc. Varsity Blues exposed the despicable extent parents and kids are willing to go to obtain admittance to top schools.

What’s absurd and unimaginable is the fact that colleges, students and parents knew it was happening. But sure, blame the small percentages of URMs that actually make up college admissions. In fact, Asian students are over represented compared to their percentage of the US population. So no, I don’t believe URM should be singled out with snide comments any more than a female admit to a STEM program.

You won't find cheating rings like this at low ranking, low performing, poor high schools. So when admissions officers see one of those kids float near the top with high SAT and AP scores they can be absolutely certain they did it on their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's terrible people say rude things. Your daughter sounds amazing. Congrats on her acceptances!

I sincerely doubt that anyone says what OP is claiming, and I’ve been active in both private and public high schools. No one says that

OP here. I assure you, these comments have come from parents of my kid’s peers. One, I clearly remember, was the same mom who, back when they were in Kindergarten, asked if I would “let” my kid date a Black person. I was in shock! I grew up in a liberal state, and was not ready for this kind of comment. Just a few months ago, this same mom said to me, “You know, your kid will have an easier time getting into XX University, because you are Hispanic”. Which in some cases may be true, but kid did get high grades, and deserves to be there.

I have also heard, “Well, if my kid were were Hispanic, we would totally use that to our advantage”

well, yea. Your kid put their race on the application; it was to their advantage.

No one is saying your kid didn't work hard, but unfortunately, this is the problem with using "holistic admissions" as a form of affirmative action.

Would you support policies that purely look at stats and not "holistic" demographics?

NP
If it is purely stats MIT could end up accepting only from very few top magnet technology high schools.
I don’t think this will create a well rounded class room.

Yes it will.

[Anonymous]

When you cannot recognize the pros and cons to public policy choices, you really lose the battle. All kids getting into these schools are qualified. There are more qualified kids than slots. Having a hook, of which being a URM is one, is a finger on the scale. Pretending it is not true does not help your argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a URM from a middle class family in Fairfax County. A language other than English is often spoken in our house. Both parents are grads of US universities. My kid has high stats, has been admitted to some sought after universities. I feel they are constantly having to prove themselves in front of their non-URM friends. In addition, I often get the “Your kid will have an advantage in college admissions” comments. It irks me to no end! My kid worked very hard for those grades. Non URM kids from their grade were admitted to comprable schools with similar-possibly lower scores.

They are still working hard in their classes (as they should), while some of her classmates are enjoying some senioritis. If you are a parent to a high performing URM, do you notice this as well? It just makes me sad how they still feel the pressure to show they deserve to attend a prestigious university.

My 40 year old niece got into Harvard but not Stanford, due to her legacy bump. It irked her too, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard. My husband and I are URM and people have always questioned the schools we went to, ivy and top 20. It almost feels like you have to work even harder to prove that you achieved anything on merit. As much assume affirmative action, we were both top of our respective high school class and he was top of his college class (phi beta kappa) before going to ivy law school with multiple ECs and national awards etc. Yet, people always assume that we only got there bc of affirmative action. Now, even in biglaw, it still doesn’t end. Other partners and associates can graduate from random place whereas every URM has to be from a better law school to be at the same firm. It never ends.

It doesn’t mean you’re not qualified. It just means that there were many qualified applicants, and that’s what helped you secure your spot.