And then the day comes: Long term partner

[Anonymous]

PP again - I am a 55 year old woman who is the caregiver for my severely disabled spouse. I read the article posted up thread with interest. It does seem that maintaining separate residences with someone you are dating/involved with in your later years is a wise idea. I've lately been noticing how everything involving health insurance, medicare, hospitalization discharge, and disability presumes that if the "loved one" has family members at home, those family members will take up the burden of care voluntarily and with no payment. But if the same person was living alone, there is often an actual billing code for this: "Patient has no support at home" or something like that, which qualifies them for more assistance. Or so it seems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you have an interesting story to tell. Many adult children of elders need to be aware of - when it's not marriage, it's not marriage. And even if it were, people may not step-up as you would hope/expect. No reason posters needs to exaggerate motive/intent. It's a good thread.

This. Now when they are married, don't expect to inherit.

In my case my own mother was 15 years younger than dad. She enjoyed a luxury life, yet when he became ill over time she said she was going to divorce him. She insisted I care for him since I would eventually inherit what she inherited. If you marry the person and enjoy over 50 decades of privilege, then yes, you need to step up. We were helping and she had hired help and was given our blessing to chose residential for him. That was insanity and she was deemed mentally fine.

If they aren't married, you cannot expect that. I love my husband and will and have been there for sickness. I will do anything for him. If he passes before I do, I will never remarry. I might eventually date, but there would be major boundaries and I would make it clear I have no intention of ever marrying again. Already in middle age, I have faced far more primary and secondary (helping a parent helping a parent) care-giving than a lot of people. By old age I will have nothing left to give other than care-giving for my adult children post surgery or something or helping grandchildren if needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Next time she is injured or ill — and at their ages there is always a next time — he should be sure to insist on the same level of independence. Goose, gander and all that.

Of course and she would understand that.

OP did say her father had nursed his partner through hip surgery as well as knee surgery.

But when, and how much nursing did she need? And was it a good idea for him to do it, or was it kindly meant but ill-advised? My father got sent home from his hip replacement earlier than my mother would have liked. He'd have been better off with someone stronger looking after him, and my mom knew it but had no choice.

This. It happened, but was it a good idea or was it a big risk? And just because he was up to that particular task at that moment in time does not mean that she's up to this task at this moment in time.

Someone's going to be the last one to do major caregiving, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Next time she is injured or ill — and at their ages there is always a next time — he should be sure to insist on the same level of independence. Goose, gander and all that.

He should do whatever he wants. And my guess is that he's not capable of caring for her at this point, anyway. No one should want or expect a 9p-year-old to bea primary caregiver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Next time she is injured or ill — and at their ages there is always a next time — he should be sure to insist on the same level of independence. Goose, gander and all that.

Of course and she would understand that.

OP did say her father had nursed his partner through hip surgery as well as knee surgery.

But when, and how much nursing did she need? And was it a good idea for him to do it, or was it kindly meant but ill-advised? My father got sent home from his hip replacement earlier than my mother would have liked. He'd have been better off with someone stronger looking after him, and my mom knew it but had no choice.

This. It happened, but was it a good idea or was it a big risk? And just because he was up to that particular task at that moment in time does not mean that she's up to this task at this moment in time.

Someone's going to be the last one to do major caregiving, right?

I cannot imagine major caregiving at such an advanced age. Better to go into a rehab hospital until the person can ambulate on their own. I cared for DH after a knee replacement and it was a bad idea and we were in our late 50s. Next time, I won’t let him talk me into going home directly from the hospital.

[Anonymous]

I don’t really understand why this mature sensible person is not having a frank conversation with her romantic partner herself, but anyway…

Op, you seem annoyed that she will not take care of him. But let me tell you, the reverse can also be a problem. My 85 yo mother insists on taking care of my 85 yo father and vice versa, even though both of them are really not up to the task. They will not accept help from anyone else, do not want anyone in their house, and as a result are constantly dealing with problems related to this And the quality of their health/life is not as high as it could be. Expecting someone her age to be available as an unpaid caregiver is not only an unreasonable plan, it wouldn’t be a safe or appropriate plan. Be grateful that she’s giving you an excuse to start finding additional sources of help immediately, because it is an inevitability

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He should have put a ring on it!!

She’s not inheriting his assets presumably so why do you expect an 85 year old to take care of him? Sorry, your going to have to spend your husbands inheritance on caregivers

I keep thinking of that other thread where people kept insisting that they wanted to marry a second time but would also totally cut the second wife out of their will. I think there is a lesson here - not really that you have to *pay* for someone to take care of you, but that the less entanglement there is of your lives, the less likelihood there is that the other person will feel the duty or calling to put their own life aside to take care of you.

I'm sorry your family is dealing with this OP. Caring for parents is really hard. Knowing what to do when they need help is hard, and I can understand why you feel resentful that your FIL's partner isn't willing to take that responsibility off your hands. Unfortunately, that's how it is - so now you need to figure out another plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve seen this before. She does not want to be his caretaker. She views that as your job. She is seeking companionship but will not assume responsibility for him when he declines. It was good while it lasted.

Women are ALWAYS the caretakers.

It's unfair, and it's good that she's resisting taking on that role.

He can get home care and return to their old life after his arm has healed.

Sorry, but even at age 89 (especially then), she has the right to set limits, and he needs to respect them.

Of course, she'll drop by. But she's not going to wait on him hand and foot, and good for her. He can pay people to do that for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

While you are in town make sure to have grab bars installed around the toilet and shower etc.

Make sure Dad has the taller toilet installed in his home.

Understand there is absolutely no way an 89 year old woman can get a man off the toilet who has a broken arm.

I'd tell DAd you are going to temporarily hire caregivers to help him in the morning with getting dressed etc. Tell Dad that you see it as a short term thing and that his girl friend does not feel up to the physical demands.

Make sure you lock up his valuables too.

We had caregivers for my father, and they stole several nice things from him -- an antique gold wristwatch, some small jewelry that had been my mom's, a few antique silver pieces. He has a lot of stuff, so didn't notice it until later. It rubbed all of us the wrong way, but by the time we discovered the thefts, it was too late to trace them to any one caregiver. I wish we'd thought to lock up his stuff. He was upset about the watch because it had been his father's, and of course he was sad about my mom's jewelry. I wish we'd put it all into a safe deposit box, and boxed up the sterling and anything small and of value and put in boxes in the attic where the caregivers couldn't pocket it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for all the quick replies. We’ll she see if she has the cajones to communicate this directly to my FIL rather than telling it to DH, but then caveating “but don’t tell FIL.”

Wow. You're a gold-digger and trying to put the burden on an 85- year old woman to save your DH some money. If she had wanted this type of relationship, she would have married him years ago instead of spending 20 years having a LTR without the benefits.

Tell your DH while he is out there to work on getting visiting drop in care for his father. Someone that can come in daily and take care of light household work, make sure meals are prepped so that he can reheat them easily when he needs and to take care of the things he needs.

His LTR girlfriend has no obligation to nursemaid him. I'm sure she will be caring for him, like visiting him regularly and bringing him meals, but she will do so at a level that she can handle. It's not her responsibility. It is your husband's responsibility.

[Anonymous]

All she’s telling you is that she wants and expects the same relationship they’ve had for the past 20 years. I don’t see anything wrong with that. It’s what they both agreed to for 20 years. As you said, he goes to own house every day. If he is convalescing, that would not be happening. She realizes that. You’ve also mentioned their relationship has been an active one, doing things together. I’m not sure why you would expect things to change, and be upset that she wouldn’t welcome such a drastic change as caretaking for an 89 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for all the quick replies. We’ll she see if she has the cajones to communicate this directly to my FIL rather than telling it to DH, but then caveating “but don’t tell FIL.”

I agree with everyone that OP should not expect the woman to handle FILs care, but at the same time, the woman should not expect FIL's son to be the one to communicate that she wants him at his own house. She needs to tell FIL herself rather than trying to pretend FIL's son is making the decision.

OP, if I were your DH I would tell her to have a talk with FIL by X day, and if she doesn't she leaves your DH with no choice but to tell FIL "Margery and I talked and she's worried about taking care of you and insists that I help set you up at your house to recover. If you have questions about that, ask Margery. I asked her to talk to you and I don't know why she hasn't."

[Anonymous]

My FIL, 89, has been in a committed long term relationship with a woman his age for close to twenty years. They have kept their finances separate and maintain separate homes in the same town, splitting between both, although recently FIL has been staying primarily at her place and going to his place every day as if it’s an office. They have had an active life together: travel, book clubs, concerts, visits and holidays with children from both families. She additionally is a dedicated musician, has been deeply involved as a board member in a local organization. They are both quite cerebral and opinionated, and all the children agree that they have been really good for each other over the years. Her health has been generally good for her 85+ age, and FIL nursed her through hip and knee replacements. He has prostate cancer (under treatment) and finally got hearing aids.

Well a week ago FIL slipped on some ice and badly broke his arm, landing in the hospital. DH flew across the country to be with his father. FIL fully expects to go back to her home, where they’ve primarily been living, when he’s released, but his partner has told my husband that she doesn’ t want him to return there; she wants him to convalesce at his place. When pressed, she said their relationship is based on a certain amount of distance and independence between them and she doesn’t want that to change. I get it, they’re not married, but I’m kind of gobsmacked. If roles were reversed I am sure he would be there for her.

I think your DH will figure this out when he is there. Since they live across the country it is rather hard for you to judge what the situation is. I think that the fact that he started staying at his partner's house more really suggests that his health is declining and that his partner is well aware of this. She knows the kind of care he likely needs and she is too old to provide it. Your FIL could be "on the way out". Those kind of accidents very often happen close to the end.

As for her knee and hip replacements, those kinds of things are done while a person is relatively healthy. Doctors will not perform them on people who are not likely to recover within a short period of time (which she apparently did). It's a far cry from helping someone who is 89 and probably has many health issues besides the broken arm (you mentioned a couple of them). Unless you fly across the country to see what the situation is, I would stay out of it.

OP, have you ever dealt with caring for someone at that age?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My FIL, 89, has been in a committed long term relationship with a woman his age for close to twenty years. They have kept their finances separate and maintain separate homes in the same town, splitting between both, although recently FIL has been staying primarily at her place and going to his place every day as if it’s an office. They have had an active life together: travel, book clubs, concerts, visits and holidays with children from both families. She additionally is a dedicated musician, has been deeply involved as a board member in a local organization. They are both quite cerebral and opinionated, and all the children agree that they have been really good for each other over the years. Her health has been generally good for her 85+ age, and FIL nursed her through hip and knee replacements. He has prostate cancer (under treatment) and finally got hearing aids.

Well a week ago FIL slipped on some ice and badly broke his arm, landing in the hospital. DH flew across the country to be with his father. FIL fully expects to go back to her home, where they’ve primarily been living, when he’s released, but his partner has told my husband that she doesn’ t want him to return there; she wants him to convalesce at his place. When pressed, she said their relationship is based on a certain amount of distance and independence between them and she doesn’t want that to change. I get it, they’re not married, but I’m kind of gobsmacked. If roles were reversed I am sure he would be there for her.

I think your DH will figure this out when he is there. Since they live across the country it is rather hard for you to judge what the situation is. I think that the fact that he started staying at his partner's house more really suggests that his health is declining and that his partner is well aware of this. She knows the kind of care he likely needs and she is too old to provide it. Your FIL could be "on the way out". Those kind of accidents very often happen close to the end.

As for her knee and hip replacements, those kinds of things are done while a person is relatively healthy. Doctors will not perform them on people who are not likely to recover within a short period of time (which she apparently did). It's a far cry from helping someone who is 89 and probably has many health issues besides the broken arm (you mentioned a couple of them). Unless you fly across the country to see what the situation is, I would stay out of it.

OP, have you ever dealt with caring for someone at that age?

+1000. It's possibly he's been sleeping over because love is a many-splendored thing, or because mornings are their jam, but it might be because he doesn't manage well on his own in the dark or doesn't feel comfortable being alone overnight anymore. It seems like you and your DH have avoided thinking too much about FIL's independence and now it's time you took an honest assessment of his needs and who's going to care for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Next time she is injured or ill — and at their ages there is always a next time — he should be sure to insist on the same level of independence. Goose, gander and all that.

Men are far more likely to abandon ship when caretaking becomes necessary than women are.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=116618&page=1

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/30/the-men-who-give-up-on-their-spouses-when-they-have-cancer