Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so what if strangers think your kid is being rude? Maybe it's embarrassing for you but it doesn't matter in the long run.

What??!??

Habits and manner’s absolutely matter in the long run. Early intervention and consistency are key.

Np. Of course they do, but the OP has time to teach her daughter manners. In the immediate term, there’s nothing OP needs to say to people. Even if her daughter offends someone, who cares? She’ll never see them again and can use it as a learning opportunity.

Who cares if people are offended? Your parents failed you. Hopefully OP does better. Normally when you offend, you apologize.

But you see that offending adults as an adult, which the child will be in a few short years, can be very detrimental, unless you are one of the tech giants who may or may not have ASD & who can say whatever they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so what if strangers think your kid is being rude? Maybe it's embarrassing for you but it doesn't matter in the long run.

It does matter to OP's kid because she doesn't understand boundaries and differences in positions of authority and that is a problem for her now and it's only going to get worse as she gets older. OP's kid needs to understand that she is not in the same position as an adult at a museum. There is also going to spillover. If she is doing this at a museum, she is doing this with her friends and teachers and she will do it with service providers and then professors, colleagues, and her managers.

NT kids pick up on social cues about boundaries and authority figures better than ASD or ADHD kids but still need boundaries reinforced, including that you do not speak to an adult who is not your parent like your parent. It does not matter how smart OP's daughter is, she will have a very difficult time in the working world if she thinks that she knows better than everyone else and her actions reflect that. Even if it's clear she has ASD and people are understanding of her quirks, she will irritate her colleagues if she doesn't understand boundaries. I've seen it happen and I really wish the person who I saw it happen with had more help and coaching prior to getting into the working world because for HR reasons, it's very tricky for a manager or colleague to sit an employee down and explain that their actions are unwelcome when those actions are tied to a disability. OP needs to coach her daughter when it's appropriate and important to advocate for herself or someone else and what it is important and appropriate to stand back and let something go.

This is a new poster and I do agree with this. However, I don't think those PP's who are saying "teach her differently" have kids that do this, as it is MUCH harder than that.

My kid is 14 and this is an issue. She "does not understand boundaries and the differences in positions of authority" is a perfect way to describe this. I don't recall her doing this at 6, other than being a little rude to grandma (boy, did we get hell for that). She didn't correct people in museums or walk up to random strangers and be "rude." But boy has it gotten worse, and it is not easy to teach or coach an Autistic brain on this subject, it just isn't. Our kid has been in therapy galore, social skills groups, OT, everything you can think of. She doesn't say please and thank you even though we remind her constantly (she does sometimes, but "forgets" other times). Her emails and interactions with teachers are astoundingly rude sounding. Our other child charms the pants off of teachers and adults most of the time (not to compare, they are two very different kids), just to point out that I don't think it is primarily our parenting.

If anyone has suggestions about how to improve this, I'm all ears - we have tried and coach every single situation we learn about. But not only does it change, we get lectured by our DD. "Why do adults deserve more respect just because they are older" (when that is not what we said), "why should I not call someone out for being [homophobic, racist, sexist, ableist] etc." (even when we explain that it is not what you say, it is how you say it). I becomes an absolutely exhausting intellectual debate and I always lose. She just doesn't get how this does and is going to continue to affect her relationships and how others view her. I am certainly afraid of how she will get along as she gets older, in school, in college, in the working world. Particularly with people she doesn't like or who are inconsequential to HER, doesn't matter if they have a lot of power over her.

Just saying, OP, it's not becuase you're not trying or modeling or coaching or whatever. It's just hard.

NP. We have a kid like this too - doesn't' understand and rebels against hierarchy, doesn't see hierarchy or authority and will actively level against people she doesn't like, as well as against people she does like (including us her parents). I have family members who are like this too and employment (as well as school) has been a problem for them.

This is a core part of her, and them. I can teach and model but I can't change her. This is who she is.

That’s right. And the more you try to pound a core part of their wiring out of them, the more likely they are to feel like you’ve traumatized them and just taught them to mask for their entire childhood.

It IS traumatising to them, you ARE teaching them how to mask and then expecting them to do so indefinitely.

What’s the alternative? Live like a hermit alone or live at Moms house forever and ever?

Teach them how to create boundaries and manage their anxiety. Think of this from their point of view and help them manage their emotions rather than just accommodate those of others. And it’s OK to let things go. Only when they can manage their emotions will they ever be able to understand how others may feel and they will be able to actually choose in the moment to act on their impulses.

Kids with autism may be way behind on following emotions in themselves and others. Really you need to just give a rule for awhile. At some point in time more nuance can come about feelings and situations. My ASD kid didn’t get manners until 17 or so!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.

NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.

Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.

Whaaaaaaaaat!?!?!?
NP here. But THAT is absurd and YOU clearly don’t have sufficient experience with asd kids. I join the PP in lol.

[Anonymous]

This is OP. In the future I will start all posts in the special needs forum with “this is a post in the special needs forum about a child with special needs.” Or maybe that won’t matter.

FWIW the people who get super offended when she corrects them in public are the know-it-alls who are wrong about something. . .whiiiiiich kind of reminds me of some of the folks responding to my question here. This whole DCUM experience is making me care a whole lot less about whether these strangers are offended by my child, who is honestly trying her best in a world not built for her. So this thread has been helpful. Thanks, all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. In the future I will start all posts in the special needs forum with “this is a post in the special needs forum about a child with special needs.” Or maybe that won’t matter.

FWIW the people who get super offended when she corrects them in public are the know-it-alls who are wrong about something. . .whiiiiiich kind of reminds me of some of the folks responding to my question here. This whole DCUM experience is making me care a whole lot less about whether these strangers are offended by my child, who is honestly trying her best in a world not built for her. So this thread has been helpful. Thanks, all.

Truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. In the future I will start all posts in the special needs forum with “this is a post in the special needs forum about a child with special needs.” Or maybe that won’t matter.

FWIW the people who get super offended when she corrects them in public are the know-it-alls who are wrong about something. . .whiiiiiich kind of reminds me of some of the folks responding to my question here. This whole DCUM experience is making me care a whole lot less about whether these strangers are offended by my child, who is honestly trying her best in a world not built for her. So this thread has been helpful. Thanks, all.

You never cared anyway. What a pointless post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so what if strangers think your kid is being rude? Maybe it's embarrassing for you but it doesn't matter in the long run.

It does matter to OP's kid because she doesn't understand boundaries and differences in positions of authority and that is a problem for her now and it's only going to get worse as she gets older. OP's kid needs to understand that she is not in the same position as an adult at a museum. There is also going to spillover. If she is doing this at a museum, she is doing this with her friends and teachers and she will do it with service providers and then professors, colleagues, and her managers.

NT kids pick up on social cues about boundaries and authority figures better than ASD or ADHD kids but still need boundaries reinforced, including that you do not speak to an adult who is not your parent like your parent. It does not matter how smart OP's daughter is, she will have a very difficult time in the working world if she thinks that she knows better than everyone else and her actions reflect that. Even if it's clear she has ASD and people are understanding of her quirks, she will irritate her colleagues if she doesn't understand boundaries. I've seen it happen and I really wish the person who I saw it happen with had more help and coaching prior to getting into the working world because for HR reasons, it's very tricky for a manager or colleague to sit an employee down and explain that their actions are unwelcome when those actions are tied to a disability. OP needs to coach her daughter when it's appropriate and important to advocate for herself or someone else and what it is important and appropriate to stand back and let something go.

This is a new poster and I do agree with this. However, I don't think those PP's who are saying "teach her differently" have kids that do this, as it is MUCH harder than that.

My kid is 14 and this is an issue. She "does not understand boundaries and the differences in positions of authority" is a perfect way to describe this. I don't recall her doing this at 6, other than being a little rude to grandma (boy, did we get hell for that). She didn't correct people in museums or walk up to random strangers and be "rude." But boy has it gotten worse, and it is not easy to teach or coach an Autistic brain on this subject, it just isn't. Our kid has been in therapy galore, social skills groups, OT, everything you can think of. She doesn't say please and thank you even though we remind her constantly (she does sometimes, but "forgets" other times). Her emails and interactions with teachers are astoundingly rude sounding. Our other child charms the pants off of teachers and adults most of the time (not to compare, they are two very different kids), just to point out that I don't think it is primarily our parenting.

If anyone has suggestions about how to improve this, I'm all ears - we have tried and coach every single situation we learn about. But not only does it change, we get lectured by our DD. "Why do adults deserve more respect just because they are older" (when that is not what we said), "why should I not call someone out for being [homophobic, racist, sexist, ableist] etc." (even when we explain that it is not what you say, it is how you say it). I becomes an absolutely exhausting intellectual debate and I always lose. She just doesn't get how this does and is going to continue to affect her relationships and how others view her. I am certainly afraid of how she will get along as she gets older, in school, in college, in the working world. Particularly with people she doesn't like or who are inconsequential to HER, doesn't matter if they have a lot of power over her.

Just saying, OP, it's not becuase you're not trying or modeling or coaching or whatever. It's just hard.

She doesn’t understand boundaries because you haven’t been consistent in teaching them.

This is OP. I’d be willing to bet she doesn’t understand boundaries because of her disability. Just like I correct my daughter EVERY TIME she’s rude to a stranger (or to me or to anyone) but she continues to do it because it’s a core feature of her disability that what sounds rude to neurotypicals does not sound rude to her.

My question wasn’t what to say to my daughter. I correct her every time. My question was what to say to the offended adult. But I’m thinking most of the people who responded don’t actually have kids with ASD, because the responses don’t seem like they “get it.”

Correcting her in the moment clearly isn’t working. You need to try a new approach. Don’t blame the disability. Get some parenting classes.

Np. My ASD kids don't understand the social hierarchy so it is impossible for them to understand why they can say something to a friend but can't say the same thing to an adult. They also don't understand back talk, or why a person would say something and then become irritate because a person responded.
I am entirely sick of people, like yourself pp, who don't understand a disability well enough to even have an opinion yet are very adamant in not allowing that disability to be used as the reason for a behavior that the disability causes.
You wouldn't tell a person who can't hear not to blame their inability to hear a sound on their disability. This is exactly the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so what if strangers think your kid is being rude? Maybe it's embarrassing for you but it doesn't matter in the long run.

It does matter to OP's kid because she doesn't understand boundaries and differences in positions of authority and that is a problem for her now and it's only going to get worse as she gets older. OP's kid needs to understand that she is not in the same position as an adult at a museum. There is also going to spillover. If she is doing this at a museum, she is doing this with her friends and teachers and she will do it with service providers and then professors, colleagues, and her managers.

NT kids pick up on social cues about boundaries and authority figures better than ASD or ADHD kids but still need boundaries reinforced, including that you do not speak to an adult who is not your parent like your parent. It does not matter how smart OP's daughter is, she will have a very difficult time in the working world if she thinks that she knows better than everyone else and her actions reflect that. Even if it's clear she has ASD and people are understanding of her quirks, she will irritate her colleagues if she doesn't understand boundaries. I've seen it happen and I really wish the person who I saw it happen with had more help and coaching prior to getting into the working world because for HR reasons, it's very tricky for a manager or colleague to sit an employee down and explain that their actions are unwelcome when those actions are tied to a disability. OP needs to coach her daughter when it's appropriate and important to advocate for herself or someone else and what it is important and appropriate to stand back and let something go.

This is a new poster and I do agree with this. However, I don't think those PP's who are saying "teach her differently" have kids that do this, as it is MUCH harder than that.

My kid is 14 and this is an issue. She "does not understand boundaries and the differences in positions of authority" is a perfect way to describe this. I don't recall her doing this at 6, other than being a little rude to grandma (boy, did we get hell for that). She didn't correct people in museums or walk up to random strangers and be "rude." But boy has it gotten worse, and it is not easy to teach or coach an Autistic brain on this subject, it just isn't. Our kid has been in therapy galore, social skills groups, OT, everything you can think of. She doesn't say please and thank you even though we remind her constantly (she does sometimes, but "forgets" other times). Her emails and interactions with teachers are astoundingly rude sounding. Our other child charms the pants off of teachers and adults most of the time (not to compare, they are two very different kids), just to point out that I don't think it is primarily our parenting.

If anyone has suggestions about how to improve this, I'm all ears - we have tried and coach every single situation we learn about. But not only does it change, we get lectured by our DD. "Why do adults deserve more respect just because they are older" (when that is not what we said), "why should I not call someone out for being [homophobic, racist, sexist, ableist] etc." (even when we explain that it is not what you say, it is how you say it). I becomes an absolutely exhausting intellectual debate and I always lose. She just doesn't get how this does and is going to continue to affect her relationships and how others view her. I am certainly afraid of how she will get along as she gets older, in school, in college, in the working world. Particularly with people she doesn't like or who are inconsequential to HER, doesn't matter if they have a lot of power over her.

Just saying, OP, it's not becuase you're not trying or modeling or coaching or whatever. It's just hard.

NP. We have a kid like this too - doesn't' understand and rebels against hierarchy, doesn't see hierarchy or authority and will actively level against people she doesn't like, as well as against people she does like (including us her parents). I have family members who are like this too and employment (as well as school) has been a problem for them.

This is a core part of her, and them. I can teach and model but I can't change her. This is who she is.

That’s right. And the more you try to pound a core part of their wiring out of them, the more likely they are to feel like you’ve traumatized them and just taught them to mask for their entire childhood.

It IS traumatising to them, you ARE teaching them how to mask and then expecting them to do so indefinitely.

What’s the alternative? Live like a hermit alone or live at Moms house forever and ever?

Teach them how to create boundaries and manage their anxiety. Think of this from their point of view and help them manage their emotions rather than just accommodate those of others. And it’s OK to let things go. Only when they can manage their emotions will they ever be able to understand how others may feel and they will be able to actually choose in the moment to act on their impulses.

Kids with autism may be way behind on following emotions in themselves and others. Really you need to just give a rule for awhile. At some point in time more nuance can come about feelings and situations. My ASD kid didn’t get manners until 17 or so!

Which is why I think adults should be expected to roll with the “rudeness” assuming that the parents are aware and working on it, even if it’s not apparent in the moment, and that the 6 year old will figure it out by the time they are 17.

My argument is that the lessons about internal emotion will have a healthier and more lasting impact on ASD kids and they’ll less likely to take on narcissistic adaptations when the are older because they won’t feel as traumatized as kids.

[Anonymous]

Behaviors normally have triggers and rewards. You cannot control how others respond/react to your daughter's behavior.

Repeat: You cannot control how others respond/react to your daughter's behavior. This will lead to a slew of frustration in school or other environments where her diagnosis (used as a justification for her behavior) will have a multitude of understandings and interpretations.

Any attempts made by you to correct the response/reaction of other adults will be mostly met with opposition, annoyance, and general placating until you leave the room.

Best advice, seek teachers/clinicians that can teach additional replacement behaviors when she is triggered to correct others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Behaviors normally have triggers and rewards. You cannot control how others respond/react to your daughter's behavior.

Repeat: You cannot control how others respond/react to your daughter's behavior. This will lead to a slew of frustration in school or other environments where her diagnosis (used as a justification for her behavior) will have a multitude of understandings and interpretations.

Any attempts made by you to correct the response/reaction of other adults will be mostly met with opposition, annoyance, and general placating until you leave the room.

Best advice, seek teachers/clinicians that can teach additional replacement behaviors when she is triggered to correct others.

PP here here's a primer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvzR8Bcol5U

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. In the future I will start all posts in the special needs forum with “this is a post in the special needs forum about a child with special needs.” Or maybe that won’t matter.

FWIW the people who get super offended when she corrects them in public are the know-it-alls who are wrong about something. . .whiiiiiich kind of reminds me of some of the folks responding to my question here. This whole DCUM experience is making me care a whole lot less about whether these strangers are offended by my child, who is honestly trying her best in a world not built for her. So this thread has been helpful. Thanks, all.

Who, of course, might well be just like your child and have some social challenges, inherent rigidity, and honestly trying their best in a world not built for them. If they are worthy of critique, then your child will be, as well, when she is an adult.

Or how do you want people to respond to your child when she is a know-it-all adult? Should we maybe be granting everyone grace here, and not just one person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. In the future I will start all posts in the special needs forum with “this is a post in the special needs forum about a child with special needs.” Or maybe that won’t matter.

FWIW the people who get super offended when she corrects them in public are the know-it-alls who are wrong about something. . .whiiiiiich kind of reminds me of some of the folks responding to my question here. This whole DCUM experience is making me care a whole lot less about whether these strangers are offended by my child, who is honestly trying her best in a world not built for her. So this thread has been helpful. Thanks, all.

Well in some ways you are right - your focus should be on your child and not on strangers. But that doesn’t mean you should fail to teach her how to behave safely in public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. In the future I will start all posts in the special needs forum with “this is a post in the special needs forum about a child with special needs.” Or maybe that won’t matter.

FWIW the people who get super offended when she corrects them in public are the know-it-alls who are wrong about something. . .whiiiiiich kind of reminds me of some of the folks responding to my question here. This whole DCUM experience is making me care a whole lot less about whether these strangers are offended by my child, who is honestly trying her best in a world not built for her. So this thread has been helpful. Thanks, all.

Who, of course, might well be just like your child and have some social challenges, inherent rigidity, and honestly trying their best in a world not built for them. If they are worthy of critique, then your child will be, as well, when she is an adult.

Or how do you want people to respond to your child when she is a know-it-all adult? Should we maybe be granting everyone grace here, and not just one person?

ffs. this isn’t about granting grace. it is about our basic responsibility to teach our kids how to be safe and independent. going up to strangers and making unexpected or inappropriate or challenging comments is a behavior that is not OK. at 6 most people probably interpret it as harmless. but at 10 (which will come sooner than you think) it will be more dysfunctional and potentially dangerous. there are ways you can teach a child to stop behaviors- please read up on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so what if strangers think your kid is being rude? Maybe it's embarrassing for you but it doesn't matter in the long run.

It does matter to OP's kid because she doesn't understand boundaries and differences in positions of authority and that is a problem for her now and it's only going to get worse as she gets older. OP's kid needs to understand that she is not in the same position as an adult at a museum. There is also going to spillover. If she is doing this at a museum, she is doing this with her friends and teachers and she will do it with service providers and then professors, colleagues, and her managers.

NT kids pick up on social cues about boundaries and authority figures better than ASD or ADHD kids but still need boundaries reinforced, including that you do not speak to an adult who is not your parent like your parent. It does not matter how smart OP's daughter is, she will have a very difficult time in the working world if she thinks that she knows better than everyone else and her actions reflect that. Even if it's clear she has ASD and people are understanding of her quirks, she will irritate her colleagues if she doesn't understand boundaries. I've seen it happen and I really wish the person who I saw it happen with had more help and coaching prior to getting into the working world because for HR reasons, it's very tricky for a manager or colleague to sit an employee down and explain that their actions are unwelcome when those actions are tied to a disability. OP needs to coach her daughter when it's appropriate and important to advocate for herself or someone else and what it is important and appropriate to stand back and let something go.

This is a new poster and I do agree with this. However, I don't think those PP's who are saying "teach her differently" have kids that do this, as it is MUCH harder than that.

My kid is 14 and this is an issue. She "does not understand boundaries and the differences in positions of authority" is a perfect way to describe this. I don't recall her doing this at 6, other than being a little rude to grandma (boy, did we get hell for that). She didn't correct people in museums or walk up to random strangers and be "rude." But boy has it gotten worse, and it is not easy to teach or coach an Autistic brain on this subject, it just isn't. Our kid has been in therapy galore, social skills groups, OT, everything you can think of. She doesn't say please and thank you even though we remind her constantly (she does sometimes, but "forgets" other times). Her emails and interactions with teachers are astoundingly rude sounding. Our other child charms the pants off of teachers and adults most of the time (not to compare, they are two very different kids), just to point out that I don't think it is primarily our parenting.

If anyone has suggestions about how to improve this, I'm all ears - we have tried and coach every single situation we learn about. But not only does it change, we get lectured by our DD. "Why do adults deserve more respect just because they are older" (when that is not what we said), "why should I not call someone out for being [homophobic, racist, sexist, ableist] etc." (even when we explain that it is not what you say, it is how you say it). I becomes an absolutely exhausting intellectual debate and I always lose. She just doesn't get how this does and is going to continue to affect her relationships and how others view her. I am certainly afraid of how she will get along as she gets older, in school, in college, in the working world. Particularly with people she doesn't like or who are inconsequential to HER, doesn't matter if they have a lot of power over her.

Just saying, OP, it's not becuase you're not trying or modeling or coaching or whatever. It's just hard.

She doesn’t understand boundaries because you haven’t been consistent in teaching them.

This is OP. I’d be willing to bet she doesn’t understand boundaries because of her disability. Just like I correct my daughter EVERY TIME she’s rude to a stranger (or to me or to anyone) but she continues to do it because it’s a core feature of her disability that what sounds rude to neurotypicals does not sound rude to her.

My question wasn’t what to say to my daughter. I correct her every time. My question was what to say to the offended adult. But I’m thinking most of the people who responded don’t actually have kids with ASD, because the responses don’t seem like they “get it.”

Just apologize to the strangers and move on. You don’t owe them an explanation but they also don’t owe your DD and you a free pass because she has ASD. I’d also suggest that you keep a closer eye on DD when you are out with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your daughter know that she is breaking rules by being rude and interrupting strangers? Correct her behavior too.

+1

This. Explain it in a way that will click with HER brain so she stops doing it. No talking to strangers is a good starting place with a 6 year-old.