Sister's Big News

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So we host bimonthly cousin sleepovers. We hosted last weekend (when BIL broke the news), they are hosting this weekend. I keep telling her I'm happy to take the kids and/or cancel but she wants to host (says it will be a good distraction). BIL and DS are still living together. I'm not sure I can stomach seeing him right now at pick-up/drop off. Do I ask for him to not be there or suck it up and try to be civil.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Do not send your kids over there to a volatile situation. It is not cool for her to use your kids as a distraction.

Also I wouldn’t feel the need to be civil to that horrible person. No need to yell at him or anything, but being civil is not something he deserves at this point.

I tend to agree with this. Husband should skedaddle for the weekend and maybe you stay with her.

Like, where are the consequences to this guy? Seems like your sister is so invested in staying with him that she's overlooking how incandescently angry she should be.

It’s kind of hilarious that you think him not staying home for the weekend with two extra kids (whom I’m sure he lives, but are still extra kids) is a punishment! If they are fighting, then don’t send them, but if they are being civil and trying to work through it, why would you punish the kids by canceling their sleepover? What would that accomplish? Again, OP, you are far too focused on YOU.

I don't understand how asking about what I should do with the kids in the situation is being too focused on me?

Because you said that you are not sure that you can stomach seeing him if you drop off/pick up your kids, should you ask for him to leave for the weekend. Maybe your sister wants him there, to try to keep things normal as possible for the kids or so at least she’s not worrying about what he’s doing, who knows. She might not want him there, but at any rate it’s not your place to ask him to leave his house for the weekend so you can feel comfortable. That’s what i meant by making it about you.

As well, if you aren’t concerned about your kids safety or health while there, maybe it would be really good for the cousins and your sister to have some normalcy, and presumably your kids enjoy it too. Your thoughts about cancelling are all about your feelings and directly contradict what your sister says she wants. If you are actually concerned about your kids, that’s a different story, but you only mentioned not wanting to be civil.

I never suggested he should leave for the weekend (also it's only one night). My sister said something about how she still wanted to do the cousin sleepover and that BIL could "make himself scarce" at the dropoff/pick up. Other people are telling me it's crazy to still do the sleepover you're on the other side saying it's selfish not to? I was just looking for a place to vent and seek advice. Please be kind this is a lot to process.

The last line says “Do I ask him not to be there?” Even if that is your sisters suggestion to make you more comfortable, I am just saying that it’s not about YOU being more comfortable. Try to focus on helping her, whatever that might mean. For those saying your kids shouldn’t go over there, what harm are they imagining might happen? He’s been a perfectly fine uncle to your kids or you wouldn’t have regular sleepovers. If they stay married, the cousin sleepovers are over? That doesn’t make sense to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thanks all. Yeah, she is going to do couples counseling, individual therapy...the problem is everywhere is booked! Super hard to get in with all the demand. She told me tonight she got a book "Healing from Infidelity: The Divorce Busting Guide to Rebuilding your Marriage after an Affair". They are both going to do the tasks from the book. It's so shocking and disgusting on so many levels. We're both products of divorce and don't want her (or my) kids to go through that, the covid aspect, the TWO YEARS of lying (we've gone on vacation with them MANY times!), and of course the actual act of sleeping with someone else for that long. A lot to process for both of us. Her kids are still so little, and the thought of raising them solo seems very daunting for her and she's still very much in love with her DH. It will be a long, shitty road.

WTAF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, as a frontline provider who worked all through Covid, I can’t underestimate the danger to which he exposed his family.

Covid has moved fast in terms of development, vaccines, treatments, etc., but everyone should stop and remember that back in April 2020 when he claims this affair started, we knew almost nothing about Covid. People were dying left and right (often in front of us). There were no treatments, no vaccinations. This unvaccinated man was stepping out and coming back into a home with a 12 month old baby. We had nothing back then. No Paxlovid, no BAM infusions. Only oxygen and we still didn’t know not to intubate people early. We learned all this over time. But didn’t know it then. People who got sick got *sick*. It was terrifying.

The recklessness of his actions cannot be understated. I appreciate the nuance of the posters pointing out that divorce is not always the answer, but this may be one of the worst infidelity stories I’ve ever heard. Your sister will need you. Her DH is a lost cause.

Op here. YES. YES. This is what I keep coming back to too!! Honestly, my mom holds a lot of resentment (she doesn't know yet about the affair), because sister and BIL didn't let her see the grandkids for a very long time after the pandemic started, even outside. She feels like she never bonded with the youngest grandkid. So it's hard to reconcile them keeping my mom away and him endangering my sister and her kids!!

I don't want to bring up the covid aspect to my sister...but it weighs on my mind A LOT.

Jfc. This guy should just pack his stuff now. The ripple effect of his actions is incredible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, as a frontline provider who worked all through Covid, I can’t underestimate the danger to which he exposed his family.

Covid has moved fast in terms of development, vaccines, treatments, etc., but everyone should stop and remember that back in April 2020 when he claims this affair started, we knew almost nothing about Covid. People were dying left and right (often in front of us). There were no treatments, no vaccinations. This unvaccinated man was stepping out and coming back into a home with a 12 month old baby. We had nothing back then. No Paxlovid, no BAM infusions. Only oxygen and we still didn’t know not to intubate people early. We learned all this over time. But didn’t know it then. People who got sick got *sick*. It was terrifying.

The recklessness of his actions cannot be understated. I appreciate the nuance of the posters pointing out that divorce is not always the answer, but this may be one of the worst infidelity stories I’ve ever heard. Your sister will need you. Her DH is a lost cause.

Op here. YES. YES. This is what I keep coming back to too!! Honestly, my mom holds a lot of resentment (she doesn't know yet about the affair), because sister and BIL didn't let her see the grandkids for a very long time after the pandemic started, even outside. She feels like she never bonded with the youngest grandkid. So it's hard to reconcile them keeping my mom away and him endangering my sister and her kids!!

I don't want to bring up the covid aspect to my sister...but it weighs on my mind A LOT.

Jfc. This guy should just pack his stuff now. The ripple effect of his actions is incredible.

Agree. I feel bad for the sister if she tries to sustain this marriage quite honestly. Just huge burdens for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you're getting such knee-jerk "divorce now" posts, OP. While that may be the eventual end here, people angrily posting she should divorce ASAP are not in her shoes, and this is all very raw and new for her. It's not helpful when folks just bleat "divorce" at every OP who comes here.

Also sorry about posters ragging on you for "making this about you" etc. You're giving us your perspective and that's fine! YOU need to get this out and vent somewhere too. Of course you're affected. Better to tell that to us strangers than to your poor sister right now.

Very short-term, focus on what you can do specifically to give her breathing space and time when she is not having to watch her kids. Offer to take them not just for overnights but also for outings or daytime visits or whatever. Tell her you know she needs some time to think and having kids around is not conducive to that, and you will gladly distract the kids.

It is hard to get therapists right now, as you note, but she needs an indvidual one for herself and they need a couples therapist who has a track record working with infidelity situations. If she is OK with it -- she might not be, and that's all right -- offer to do some online research and make some calls to see if you can help her land a therapist(s). Did she try their insurance company's list of therapists? Are they open to virtual therapy over Zoom if that's what they can get? Try the Women's Center (two in the area) and see if they have suggestions re: finding therapy these days (they can also help find things like sliding scale fee therapists etc., if money is an issue). Or put out a post here on DCUM asking for people to name any good couples therapists they used in an affair situation. (I would not do this on this thread but would start a new one JUST asking for names; be sure to give a location like MD suburbs or only in the District etc.).

If she's really thrown by this, you might offer to help with any day to day stuff like picking up her kid from preschool if that's a thing, or bringing over dinner (sneak in enough for two meals for them all) and say it's 'just because") etc. You do not want her feel you think she's helpless! But if you can make some things easier without intruding, think what those things might be.

Most of all ASK her clearly how you can help. Say you do not want to interfere but if she needs concrete help with kids or tasks, to free up her time for finding therapy, going to therapy, spending time with DH working on this, etc. you will help. You sound like a great sister. I'm sorry she's going through this. I do think there will be more bombshells potentially coming, OP, so be ready for that; it seems unlikely that an affair would only start with the start of the pandemic, so there may be more revelations.

And absolutely tell her she needs an STD test NOW. And she should insist that he get one too. Frankly in her shoes I'd make the appointment for him and demand to see the results on paper afterward, and would not trust to "I went to the doctor and I'm fine." People are sayng she needs testing which is true, but he must get it too.

Op here. Thank you for this sensitive and thoughtful post! Lots of good ideas. I don't know if I'm brave enough to broach the STD topic. They are definitely researching lots of therapists for marriage counseling and individual.

I"m the PP to whom you're responding. OP, I know it feels awful, but please bring up STD testing. Some STDs have no symptoms until they start getting farther along, and people who don't test "because I feel fine" can be missing out on starting treatment early.

And he must get tested too. If his affair partner is married he might be one of these men who thinks "a married woman is safer, she's not likely to have STDs" but that's crap. If he resists based on that thinking he's even worse than I thought. If she wont' ask him to get tested because she's afraid it will anger him -- she can frame it to him as "Do this for your kids so they have a healthy father, because you can't know by how you feel, or what the other woman claims, that you don't have an STD."

I know, it feels invasive and like adding to her burden to bring this up with your sister but it's a harsh reality and one that will not wait for counseling or lawyering or anythng else. Viruses don't care if they're workign othe marriage or not. Just tell her flat out, "I was wary of bringing this up because I don't want to be invasive but I think it needs to be said: Please get tested immediately for STDs. I love you and do not want to see a disease added to the grief and stress this is causing you. Why not get tested and at least eliminate that possibility from the list of things to think about?"

[Anonymous]

I feel for your sister, OP. My kids were 3 and 5 when I discovered my husband was having an affair. They're 10 and 12 now.

I confided in my sister too. I needed her! I remember asking her point blank if she thought I was an idiot for trying to reconcile, if she thought my husband was just too irredeemably broken to be the spouse I deserve. She thought about it and said, no, she thought he was a mostly good person and we had something worth fighting for. I remember her saying she was so mad at him and she might need to pull him aside the first time she saw him and tell him so, but in the end I think they just hugged.

That book's title makes me think it's too much "shore up your marriage!" and not enough "cheating is about the dumbo who did it, not the 'marriage'." I'd recommend Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and How to Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair by Linda J. MacDonald. I also think the articles on the Infidelity Help Group website are very logical.

We tried marital counseling but other than the counselor putting my husband in his place (he was still all blame-y and clueless at that point) it didn't help much. Individual counseling is much better. I did it for a year or so and my husband still goes. He definitely needed to learn and deepen a lot of skills: self-awareness, communication, resilience, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get her a therapist immediately. Help her with the kids -- watch them when she goes to therapy or needs some time to think. Be there for her and just listen. Help her find a good divorce attorney when she's ready.

I am so sorry- that's really, really hard. What a terrible betrayal on so many levels. I hope she divorces him and moves on and finds happiness.

It's okay if she doesn't divorce him. Infidelity is wrong, yes, but it's so extremely common that people who jump straight to throwing away a family with young children are nuts. There is A LOT to unpack in this affair. Was it sex only? Is he remorseful? Why did he cheat? Did he end it? Is he proactive in trying to heal and help his wife heal? OP, your sister has a long road ahead of her, but do not push her into divorce. You do not know her relationship. She does need therapy. Often the biggest pain comes from her seeing that the last two years of her life were a lie, not necessarily that her DH slept with someone else.

TWO YEARS DURING COVID?!?!?! This is not your garden variety affair!!!

In April 2020, we didn't know enough about Covid's effects on people. Everyone was on serious lockdown. At the time, for all he knew, DH could have killed his wife bringing Covid into the house... He was putting his entire family's health at risk for AN AFFAIR.

This. Having an affair during COVID adds a whole extra layer of betrayal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, as a frontline provider who worked all through Covid, I can’t underestimate the danger to which he exposed his family.

Covid has moved fast in terms of development, vaccines, treatments, etc., but everyone should stop and remember that back in April 2020 when he claims this affair started, we knew almost nothing about Covid. People were dying left and right (often in front of us). There were no treatments, no vaccinations. This unvaccinated man was stepping out and coming back into a home with a 12 month old baby. We had nothing back then. No Paxlovid, no BAM infusions. Only oxygen and we still didn’t know not to intubate people early. We learned all this over time. But didn’t know it then. People who got sick got *sick*. It was terrifying.

The recklessness of his actions cannot be understated. I appreciate the nuance of the posters pointing out that divorce is not always the answer, but this may be one of the worst infidelity stories I’ve ever heard. Your sister will need you. Her DH is a lost cause.

This. This this this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you're getting such knee-jerk "divorce now" posts, OP. While that may be the eventual end here, people angrily posting she should divorce ASAP are not in her shoes, and this is all very raw and new for her. It's not helpful when folks just bleat "divorce" at every OP who comes here.

Also sorry about posters ragging on you for "making this about you" etc. You're giving us your perspective and that's fine! YOU need to get this out and vent somewhere too. Of course you're affected. Better to tell that to us strangers than to your poor sister right now.

Very short-term, focus on what you can do specifically to give her breathing space and time when she is not having to watch her kids. Offer to take them not just for overnights but also for outings or daytime visits or whatever. Tell her you know she needs some time to think and having kids around is not conducive to that, and you will gladly distract the kids.

It is hard to get therapists right now, as you note, but she needs an indvidual one for herself and they need a couples therapist who has a track record working with infidelity situations. If she is OK with it -- she might not be, and that's all right -- offer to do some online research and make some calls to see if you can help her land a therapist(s). Did she try their insurance company's list of therapists? Are they open to virtual therapy over Zoom if that's what they can get? Try the Women's Center (two in the area) and see if they have suggestions re: finding therapy these days (they can also help find things like sliding scale fee therapists etc., if money is an issue). Or put out a post here on DCUM asking for people to name any good couples therapists they used in an affair situation. (I would not do this on this thread but would start a new one JUST asking for names; be sure to give a location like MD suburbs or only in the District etc.).

If she's really thrown by this, you might offer to help with any day to day stuff like picking up her kid from preschool if that's a thing, or bringing over dinner (sneak in enough for two meals for them all) and say it's 'just because") etc. You do not want her feel you think she's helpless! But if you can make some things easier without intruding, think what those things might be.

Most of all ASK her clearly how you can help. Say you do not want to interfere but if she needs concrete help with kids or tasks, to free up her time for finding therapy, going to therapy, spending time with DH working on this, etc. you will help. You sound like a great sister. I'm sorry she's going through this. I do think there will be more bombshells potentially coming, OP, so be ready for that; it seems unlikely that an affair would only start with the start of the pandemic, so there may be more revelations.

And absolutely tell her she needs an STD test NOW. And she should insist that he get one too. Frankly in her shoes I'd make the appointment for him and demand to see the results on paper afterward, and would not trust to "I went to the doctor and I'm fine." People are sayng she needs testing which is true, but he must get it too.

Op here. Thank you for this sensitive and thoughtful post! Lots of good ideas. I don't know if I'm brave enough to broach the STD topic. They are definitely researching lots of therapists for marriage counseling and individual.

I"m the PP to whom you're responding. OP, I know it feels awful, but please bring up STD testing. Some STDs have no symptoms until they start getting farther along, and people who don't test "because I feel fine" can be missing out on starting treatment early.

And he must get tested too. If his affair partner is married he might be one of these men who thinks "a married woman is safer, she's not likely to have STDs" but that's crap. If he resists based on that thinking he's even worse than I thought. If she wont' ask him to get tested because she's afraid it will anger him -- she can frame it to him as "Do this for your kids so they have a healthy father, because you can't know by how you feel, or what the other woman claims, that you don't have an STD."

I know, it feels invasive and like adding to her burden to bring this up with your sister but it's a harsh reality and one that will not wait for counseling or lawyering or anythng else. Viruses don't care if they're workign othe marriage or not. Just tell her flat out, "I was wary of bringing this up because I don't want to be invasive but I think it needs to be said: Please get tested immediately for STDs. I love you and do not want to see a disease added to the grief and stress this is causing you. Why not get tested and at least eliminate that possibility from the list of things to think about?"

Thanks. This is OP. Really good advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you're getting such knee-jerk "divorce now" posts, OP. While that may be the eventual end here, people angrily posting she should divorce ASAP are not in her shoes, and this is all very raw and new for her. It's not helpful when folks just bleat "divorce" at every OP who comes here.

Also sorry about posters ragging on you for "making this about you" etc. You're giving us your perspective and that's fine! YOU need to get this out and vent somewhere too. Of course you're affected. Better to tell that to us strangers than to your poor sister right now.

Very short-term, focus on what you can do specifically to give her breathing space and time when she is not having to watch her kids. Offer to take them not just for overnights but also for outings or daytime visits or whatever. Tell her you know she needs some time to think and having kids around is not conducive to that, and you will gladly distract the kids.

It is hard to get therapists right now, as you note, but she needs an indvidual one for herself and they need a couples therapist who has a track record working with infidelity situations. If she is OK with it -- she might not be, and that's all right -- offer to do some online research and make some calls to see if you can help her land a therapist(s). Did she try their insurance company's list of therapists? Are they open to virtual therapy over Zoom if that's what they can get? Try the Women's Center (two in the area) and see if they have suggestions re: finding therapy these days (they can also help find things like sliding scale fee therapists etc., if money is an issue). Or put out a post here on DCUM asking for people to name any good couples therapists they used in an affair situation. (I would not do this on this thread but would start a new one JUST asking for names; be sure to give a location like MD suburbs or only in the District etc.).

If she's really thrown by this, you might offer to help with any day to day stuff like picking up her kid from preschool if that's a thing, or bringing over dinner (sneak in enough for two meals for them all) and say it's 'just because") etc. You do not want her feel you think she's helpless! But if you can make some things easier without intruding, think what those things might be.

Most of all ASK her clearly how you can help. Say you do not want to interfere but if she needs concrete help with kids or tasks, to free up her time for finding therapy, going to therapy, spending time with DH working on this, etc. you will help. You sound like a great sister. I'm sorry she's going through this. I do think there will be more bombshells potentially coming, OP, so be ready for that; it seems unlikely that an affair would only start with the start of the pandemic, so there may be more revelations.

And absolutely tell her she needs an STD test NOW. And she should insist that he get one too. Frankly in her shoes I'd make the appointment for him and demand to see the results on paper afterward, and would not trust to "I went to the doctor and I'm fine." People are sayng she needs testing which is true, but he must get it too.

Op here. Thank you for this sensitive and thoughtful post! Lots of good ideas. I don't know if I'm brave enough to broach the STD topic. They are definitely researching lots of therapists for marriage counseling and individual.

I"m the PP to whom you're responding. OP, I know it feels awful, but please bring up STD testing. Some STDs have no symptoms until they start getting farther along, and people who don't test "because I feel fine" can be missing out on starting treatment early.

And he must get tested too. If his affair partner is married he might be one of these men who thinks "a married woman is safer, she's not likely to have STDs" but that's crap. If he resists based on that thinking he's even worse than I thought. If she wont' ask him to get tested because she's afraid it will anger him -- she can frame it to him as "Do this for your kids so they have a healthy father, because you can't know by how you feel, or what the other woman claims, that you don't have an STD."

I know, it feels invasive and like adding to her burden to bring this up with your sister but it's a harsh reality and one that will not wait for counseling or lawyering or anythng else. Viruses don't care if they're workign othe marriage or not. Just tell her flat out, "I was wary of bringing this up because I don't want to be invasive but I think it needs to be said: Please get tested immediately for STDs. I love you and do not want to see a disease added to the grief and stress this is causing you. Why not get tested and at least eliminate that possibility from the list of things to think about?"

Thanks. This is OP. Really good advice.

Op here. Just talked with my sister. As they are telling their friends, it turns out BIL messed around with one of their mutual MARRIED with children friends a year before the divorce. He also doesn't know if he wants to be with my sister or his AP. The rage I'm feeling is SOOOOO great. What an asshole!!

[Anonymous]

That book's title makes me think it's too much "shore up your marriage!" and not enough "cheating is about the dumbo who did it, not the 'marriage'." I'd recommend Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and How to Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair by Linda J. MacDonald. I also think the articles on the Infidelity Help Group website are very logical.

We tried marital counseling but other than the counselor putting my husband in his place (he was still all blame-y and clueless at that point) it didn't help much. Individual counseling is much better. I did it for a year or so and my husband still goes. He definitely needed to learn and deepen a lot of skills: self-awareness, communication, resilience, etc.

This is very good advice. Her DH should read How to Help Your Spouse Heal and treat it like his bible. He needs to go absolutely no contact with his AP, and they should draft a text together telling AP that and stating no further contact. If they work together, then he should find a new job; otherwise, your sister is going to be triggered every time he goes to work. Sister should have complete access to all his devices and social media accounts, and she should be blocked on everything. Your sister needs Individual counseling to deal with this emotional trauma, and her DH needs it to fix himself and learn to be a safe partner. Marriage counseling right now is premature; the marriage is not what caused DH to cheat. Tgere is some good advice on survivinginfidelity.com if your sister wants to read there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you're getting such knee-jerk "divorce now" posts, OP. While that may be the eventual end here, people angrily posting she should divorce ASAP are not in her shoes, and this is all very raw and new for her. It's not helpful when folks just bleat "divorce" at every OP who comes here.

Also sorry about posters ragging on you for "making this about you" etc. You're giving us your perspective and that's fine! YOU need to get this out and vent somewhere too. Of course you're affected. Better to tell that to us strangers than to your poor sister right now.

Very short-term, focus on what you can do specifically to give her breathing space and time when she is not having to watch her kids. Offer to take them not just for overnights but also for outings or daytime visits or whatever. Tell her you know she needs some time to think and having kids around is not conducive to that, and you will gladly distract the kids.

It is hard to get therapists right now, as you note, but she needs an indvidual one for herself and they need a couples therapist who has a track record working with infidelity situations. If she is OK with it -- she might not be, and that's all right -- offer to do some online research and make some calls to see if you can help her land a therapist(s). Did she try their insurance company's list of therapists? Are they open to virtual therapy over Zoom if that's what they can get? Try the Women's Center (two in the area) and see if they have suggestions re: finding therapy these days (they can also help find things like sliding scale fee therapists etc., if money is an issue). Or put out a post here on DCUM asking for people to name any good couples therapists they used in an affair situation. (I would not do this on this thread but would start a new one JUST asking for names; be sure to give a location like MD suburbs or only in the District etc.).

If she's really thrown by this, you might offer to help with any day to day stuff like picking up her kid from preschool if that's a thing, or bringing over dinner (sneak in enough for two meals for them all) and say it's 'just because") etc. You do not want her feel you think she's helpless! But if you can make some things easier without intruding, think what those things might be.

Most of all ASK her clearly how you can help. Say you do not want to interfere but if she needs concrete help with kids or tasks, to free up her time for finding therapy, going to therapy, spending time with DH working on this, etc. you will help. You sound like a great sister. I'm sorry she's going through this. I do think there will be more bombshells potentially coming, OP, so be ready for that; it seems unlikely that an affair would only start with the start of the pandemic, so there may be more revelations.

And absolutely tell her she needs an STD test NOW. And she should insist that he get one too. Frankly in her shoes I'd make the appointment for him and demand to see the results on paper afterward, and would not trust to "I went to the doctor and I'm fine." People are sayng she needs testing which is true, but he must get it too.

Op here. Thank you for this sensitive and thoughtful post! Lots of good ideas. I don't know if I'm brave enough to broach the STD topic. They are definitely researching lots of therapists for marriage counseling and individual.

I"m the PP to whom you're responding. OP, I know it feels awful, but please bring up STD testing. Some STDs have no symptoms until they start getting farther along, and people who don't test "because I feel fine" can be missing out on starting treatment early.

And he must get tested too. If his affair partner is married he might be one of these men who thinks "a married woman is safer, she's not likely to have STDs" but that's crap. If he resists based on that thinking he's even worse than I thought. If she wont' ask him to get tested because she's afraid it will anger him -- she can frame it to him as "Do this for your kids so they have a healthy father, because you can't know by how you feel, or what the other woman claims, that you don't have an STD."

I know, it feels invasive and like adding to her burden to bring this up with your sister but it's a harsh reality and one that will not wait for counseling or lawyering or anythng else. Viruses don't care if they're workign othe marriage or not. Just tell her flat out, "I was wary of bringing this up because I don't want to be invasive but I think it needs to be said: Please get tested immediately for STDs. I love you and do not want to see a disease added to the grief and stress this is causing you. Why not get tested and at least eliminate that possibility from the list of things to think about?"

Thanks. This is OP. Really good advice.

Op here. Just talked with my sister. As they are telling their friends, it turns out BIL messed around with one of their mutual MARRIED with children friends a year before the divorce. He also doesn't know if he wants to be with my sister or his AP. The rage I'm feeling is SOOOOO great. What an asshole!!

I'd be there for your sister and tell her you'll support HER no matter what, but that your opinion is that this marriage is over and you hope she can see and understand that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. So, his AP is also married and she came clean about a month ago. This weekend, they were watching some show maybe "The Ultimatum" and sister said something like if you had a one time affair that's one thing, but if it was a long term thing that would be it. And he got awkward and told her. He was remorseful, crying, saying it started off just physical but then there was more emotions involved...

The way he ‘came clean’ tells me he doesn’t want to be married. He saw an out and he took it.

[Anonymous]

I’m sorry, OP. You’ve gotten some good advice here. I will also add that I have been the person whose husband cheated and what I really needed was less advice and fewer opinions. And no questions. People had so many questions. I needed time to figure out what I wanted and what happened and how we got there and how I didn’t see it and who I even was. Honestly, everyone was so unhelpful, even though they thought they were supporting me. It also took me a while to stop loving him. I knew what he did and I was gutted and hurt but I still loved him. My friends and family, on the other hand, were just furious. It didn’t help that I needed to deal with their emotions too and also try to explain how I felt and then wonder if I was crazy. So TLDR — say less. Mostly just listen and tell her how much you love her and show up.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sorry you're getting such knee-jerk "divorce now" posts, OP. While that may be the eventual end here, people angrily posting she should divorce ASAP are not in her shoes, and this is all very raw and new for her. It's not helpful when folks just bleat "divorce" at every OP who comes here.

Also sorry about posters ragging on you for "making this about you" etc. You're giving us your perspective and that's fine! YOU need to get this out and vent somewhere too. Of course you're affected. Better to tell that to us strangers than to your poor sister right now.

Very short-term, focus on what you can do specifically to give her breathing space and time when she is not having to watch her kids. Offer to take them not just for overnights but also for outings or daytime visits or whatever. Tell her you know she needs some time to think and having kids around is not conducive to that, and you will gladly distract the kids.

It is hard to get therapists right now, as you note, but she needs an indvidual one for herself and they need a couples therapist who has a track record working with infidelity situations. If she is OK with it -- she might not be, and that's all right -- offer to do some online research and make some calls to see if you can help her land a therapist(s). Did she try their insurance company's list of therapists? Are they open to virtual therapy over Zoom if that's what they can get? Try the Women's Center (two in the area) and see if they have suggestions re: finding therapy these days (they can also help find things like sliding scale fee therapists etc., if money is an issue). Or put out a post here on DCUM asking for people to name any good couples therapists they used in an affair situation. (I would not do this on this thread but would start a new one JUST asking for names; be sure to give a location like MD suburbs or only in the District etc.).

If she's really thrown by this, you might offer to help with any day to day stuff like picking up her kid from preschool if that's a thing, or bringing over dinner (sneak in enough for two meals for them all) and say it's 'just because") etc. You do not want her feel you think she's helpless! But if you can make some things easier without intruding, think what those things might be.

Most of all ASK her clearly how you can help. Say you do not want to interfere but if she needs concrete help with kids or tasks, to free up her time for finding therapy, going to therapy, spending time with DH working on this, etc. you will help. You sound like a great sister. I'm sorry she's going through this. I do think there will be more bombshells potentially coming, OP, so be ready for that; it seems unlikely that an affair would only start with the start of the pandemic, so there may be more revelations.

And absolutely tell her she needs an STD test NOW. And she should insist that he get one too. Frankly in her shoes I'd make the appointment for him and demand to see the results on paper afterward, and would not trust to "I went to the doctor and I'm fine." People are sayng she needs testing which is true, but he must get it too.

Op here. Thank you for this sensitive and thoughtful post! Lots of good ideas. I don't know if I'm brave enough to broach the STD topic. They are definitely researching lots of therapists for marriage counseling and individual.

I"m the PP to whom you're responding. OP, I know it feels awful, but please bring up STD testing. Some STDs have no symptoms until they start getting farther along, and people who don't test "because I feel fine" can be missing out on starting treatment early.

And he must get tested too. If his affair partner is married he might be one of these men who thinks "a married woman is safer, she's not likely to have STDs" but that's crap. If he resists based on that thinking he's even worse than I thought. If she wont' ask him to get tested because she's afraid it will anger him -- she can frame it to him as "Do this for your kids so they have a healthy father, because you can't know by how you feel, or what the other woman claims, that you don't have an STD."

I know, it feels invasive and like adding to her burden to bring this up with your sister but it's a harsh reality and one that will not wait for counseling or lawyering or anythng else. Viruses don't care if they're workign othe marriage or not. Just tell her flat out, "I was wary of bringing this up because I don't want to be invasive but I think it needs to be said: Please get tested immediately for STDs. I love you and do not want to see a disease added to the grief and stress this is causing you. Why not get tested and at least eliminate that possibility from the list of things to think about?"

Thanks. This is OP. Really good advice.

Op here. Just talked with my sister. As they are telling their friends, it turns out BIL messed around with one of their mutual MARRIED with children friends a year before the divorce. He also doesn't know if he wants to be with my sister or his AP. The rage I'm feeling is SOOOOO great. What an asshole!!

Op I’m so sorry. This happened to a very dear friend of mine, I was very close with both husband and wife. The same thing happened - once the affair came out as more friends found out more infidelities came out. Fwiw, this couple also worked through things together and are doing incredibly well. But the husband was absolutely at rock bottom and 100% sure he wanted to fight for the marriage. He did a LOT of work on himself. On the side of my friend who was cheated on, it really really meant a lot when people supported her in her decision to continue to fight for the marriage. And it irrevocably effected some relationships when folks did not. So it’s ok to feel rage (of course) but make sure to take the grief circle approach - your sister is at the center of the circle, most effected - so if you are farther out of the circle, you can’t talk to your sister about your rage, talk to someone farther outside the circle - your husband, or dcum which is what you’re doing . It can be easy to say I would do x if this happened but it sounds like you understand that when you have two kids, it’s so complicated. I hope your sister finds healing.