Sister's Big News

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is awful. What are the logistics of having an affair starting in April 2020? Like how was that even possible? I'm assuming they were considered essential to even be out and about enough to do this?

Sorry if this is nosey...

This is my question too. What the heck is the cover story in the middle of the covid lockdown? Not going to the gym or a work trip....

OP here--yeah, I'm really wondering this too. I didn't ask logistics when talking to my sister for obvious reasons. I know he she has been back in work in person since August 2020 (education related work) and he has been home since March/April 2020. He's also had many work trips (but not before vaccines). I have no idea when you could start an affair with two young kids at the very beginning of Covid! Have no idea...but speculating that he'd be the type to go off on long walks by himself so maybe they'd meet up somewhere? It's a question that nags me too.

*SHE has been back at work, my sister. He has been WFH.

So let's review: For two of their nine year marriage he was cheating (likely more than two; I bet this started when she was pregnant with DC2), affair occurred while they had a baby and a toddler, he got to WFH while she went back in person during Covid, and it sounds like he confessed bc AP broke it off.

Yeah this marriage is toast. I say that with no glee. This is a nuclear bomb and I am so, so sorry for your sister. You sound supportive and loving, and it's the right thing to do to support her as he goes through all the iterations of what comes next, including counseling and attempts to reconcile, as it sounds like she wants that. And I can understand. Love is really hard. But this guy? Nopity nope nope.

This marriage may not end right away. But it will end. I'm sorry, and I'm glad she and her kids have you and your family.

+1 to allll of this. Your sister's husband sucks and that reality is going to come through in the end.

[Anonymous]

What to do?? Really, she doesn't know?! ~ she divorces the slime bag

[Anonymous]

Sorry you're getting such knee-jerk "divorce now" posts, OP. While that may be the eventual end here, people angrily posting she should divorce ASAP are not in her shoes, and this is all very raw and new for her. It's not helpful when folks just bleat "divorce" at every OP who comes here.

Also sorry about posters ragging on you for "making this about you" etc. You're giving us your perspective and that's fine! YOU need to get this out and vent somewhere too. Of course you're affected. Better to tell that to us strangers than to your poor sister right now.

Very short-term, focus on what you can do specifically to give her breathing space and time when she is not having to watch her kids. Offer to take them not just for overnights but also for outings or daytime visits or whatever. Tell her you know she needs some time to think and having kids around is not conducive to that, and you will gladly distract the kids.

It is hard to get therapists right now, as you note, but she needs an indvidual one for herself and they need a couples therapist who has a track record working with infidelity situations. If she is OK with it -- she might not be, and that's all right -- offer to do some online research and make some calls to see if you can help her land a therapist(s). Did she try their insurance company's list of therapists? Are they open to virtual therapy over Zoom if that's what they can get? Try the Women's Center (two in the area) and see if they have suggestions re: finding therapy these days (they can also help find things like sliding scale fee therapists etc., if money is an issue). Or put out a post here on DCUM asking for people to name any good couples therapists they used in an affair situation. (I would not do this on this thread but would start a new one JUST asking for names; be sure to give a location like MD suburbs or only in the District etc.).

If she's really thrown by this, you might offer to help with any day to day stuff like picking up her kid from preschool if that's a thing, or bringing over dinner (sneak in enough for two meals for them all) and say it's 'just because") etc. You do not want her feel you think she's helpless! But if you can make some things easier without intruding, think what those things might be.

Most of all ASK her clearly how you can help. Say you do not want to interfere but if she needs concrete help with kids or tasks, to free up her time for finding therapy, going to therapy, spending time with DH working on this, etc. you will help. You sound like a great sister. I'm sorry she's going through this. I do think there will be more bombshells potentially coming, OP, so be ready for that; it seems unlikely that an affair would only start with the start of the pandemic, so there may be more revelations.

And absolutely tell her she needs an STD test NOW. And she should insist that he get one too. Frankly in her shoes I'd make the appointment for him and demand to see the results on paper afterward, and would not trust to "I went to the doctor and I'm fine." People are sayng she needs testing which is true, but he must get it too.

[Anonymous]

OP, as a frontline provider who worked all through Covid, I can’t underestimate the danger to which he exposed his family.

Covid has moved fast in terms of development, vaccines, treatments, etc., but everyone should stop and remember that back in April 2020 when he claims this affair started, we knew almost nothing about Covid. People were dying left and right (often in front of us). There were no treatments, no vaccinations. This unvaccinated man was stepping out and coming back into a home with a 12 month old baby. We had nothing back then. No Paxlovid, no BAM infusions. Only oxygen and we still didn’t know not to intubate people early. We learned all this over time. But didn’t know it then. People who got sick got *sick*. It was terrifying.

The recklessness of his actions cannot be understated. I appreciate the nuance of the posters pointing out that divorce is not always the answer, but this may be one of the worst infidelity stories I’ve ever heard. Your sister will need you. Her DH is a lost cause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, as a frontline provider who worked all through Covid, I can’t underestimate the danger to which he exposed his family.

Covid has moved fast in terms of development, vaccines, treatments, etc., but everyone should stop and remember that back in April 2020 when he claims this affair started, we knew almost nothing about Covid. People were dying left and right (often in front of us). There were no treatments, no vaccinations. This unvaccinated man was stepping out and coming back into a home with a 12 month old baby. We had nothing back then. No Paxlovid, no BAM infusions. Only oxygen and we still didn’t know not to intubate people early. We learned all this over time. But didn’t know it then. People who got sick got *sick*. It was terrifying.

The recklessness of his actions cannot be understated. I appreciate the nuance of the posters pointing out that divorce is not always the answer, but this may be one of the worst infidelity stories I’ve ever heard. Your sister will need you. Her DH is a lost cause.

I'm a PP and this post is extremely sobering. OP, your sister is going to have to consider retroactively the level of very real risk at which he put their family at a time when Covid was too frequently a death sentence. (And don't believe the "young kids don't get it and if they do it's like a cold!" idiocy. Of course they too were at real risk, and so was your sister, their mother, the guy's wife.)

I would find it hard to shake the added layer of horror at the Covid exposure on top of the infidelity. It's as if the craving for sex made him decide the actual risk to life was worth it, if he could get that itch scratched. Maybe he or even the sister are both deniers, don't think Covid's a big deal and never have but...knowing what we all should know now, listening to this frontline health worker above, that aspect makes the affair much worse. I wonder if the DH will see it that way, though.

The fact he didn't come clean on his own (fessing up when a TV show plus a comment tilts you into tearful admission is not exactly a mature "coming clean" moment) is a red flag for the sister too. Definitely they need marriage therapy and she needs individual therapy. Therapy does not always translate as "we're trying to stay together." It can also be useful for reaching some clarity in the movement toward divorce. I'm not saying they should divorce, just noting that therapy has a role here whether they end up together or apart.

[Anonymous]

I could probably forgive a two year affair but there's zero chance in hell I could forgive exposing my kids and myself to covid, in APRIL 2022. God knows what else this guy has been up to. He has no respect for his family and is frankly probably a worse dad than husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, as a frontline provider who worked all through Covid, I can’t underestimate the danger to which he exposed his family.

Covid has moved fast in terms of development, vaccines, treatments, etc., but everyone should stop and remember that back in April 2020 when he claims this affair started, we knew almost nothing about Covid. People were dying left and right (often in front of us). There were no treatments, no vaccinations. This unvaccinated man was stepping out and coming back into a home with a 12 month old baby. We had nothing back then. No Paxlovid, no BAM infusions. Only oxygen and we still didn’t know not to intubate people early. We learned all this over time. But didn’t know it then. People who got sick got *sick*. It was terrifying.

The recklessness of his actions cannot be understated. I appreciate the nuance of the posters pointing out that divorce is not always the answer, but this may be one of the worst infidelity stories I’ve ever heard. Your sister will need you. Her DH is a lost cause.

Op here. YES. YES. This is what I keep coming back to too!! Honestly, my mom holds a lot of resentment (she doesn't know yet about the affair), because sister and BIL didn't let her see the grandkids for a very long time after the pandemic started, even outside. She feels like she never bonded with the youngest grandkid. So it's hard to reconcile them keeping my mom away and him endangering my sister and her kids!!

I don't want to bring up the covid aspect to my sister...but it weighs on my mind A LOT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you're getting such knee-jerk "divorce now" posts, OP. While that may be the eventual end here, people angrily posting she should divorce ASAP are not in her shoes, and this is all very raw and new for her. It's not helpful when folks just bleat "divorce" at every OP who comes here.

Also sorry about posters ragging on you for "making this about you" etc. You're giving us your perspective and that's fine! YOU need to get this out and vent somewhere too. Of course you're affected. Better to tell that to us strangers than to your poor sister right now.

Very short-term, focus on what you can do specifically to give her breathing space and time when she is not having to watch her kids. Offer to take them not just for overnights but also for outings or daytime visits or whatever. Tell her you know she needs some time to think and having kids around is not conducive to that, and you will gladly distract the kids.

It is hard to get therapists right now, as you note, but she needs an indvidual one for herself and they need a couples therapist who has a track record working with infidelity situations. If she is OK with it -- she might not be, and that's all right -- offer to do some online research and make some calls to see if you can help her land a therapist(s). Did she try their insurance company's list of therapists? Are they open to virtual therapy over Zoom if that's what they can get? Try the Women's Center (two in the area) and see if they have suggestions re: finding therapy these days (they can also help find things like sliding scale fee therapists etc., if money is an issue). Or put out a post here on DCUM asking for people to name any good couples therapists they used in an affair situation. (I would not do this on this thread but would start a new one JUST asking for names; be sure to give a location like MD suburbs or only in the District etc.).

If she's really thrown by this, you might offer to help with any day to day stuff like picking up her kid from preschool if that's a thing, or bringing over dinner (sneak in enough for two meals for them all) and say it's 'just because") etc. You do not want her feel you think she's helpless! But if you can make some things easier without intruding, think what those things might be.

Most of all ASK her clearly how you can help. Say you do not want to interfere but if she needs concrete help with kids or tasks, to free up her time for finding therapy, going to therapy, spending time with DH working on this, etc. you will help. You sound like a great sister. I'm sorry she's going through this. I do think there will be more bombshells potentially coming, OP, so be ready for that; it seems unlikely that an affair would only start with the start of the pandemic, so there may be more revelations.

And absolutely tell her she needs an STD test NOW. And she should insist that he get one too. Frankly in her shoes I'd make the appointment for him and demand to see the results on paper afterward, and would not trust to "I went to the doctor and I'm fine." People are sayng she needs testing which is true, but he must get it too.

Op here. Thank you for this sensitive and thoughtful post! Lots of good ideas. I don't know if I'm brave enough to broach the STD topic. They are definitely researching lots of therapists for marriage counseling and individual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is awful. What are the logistics of having an affair starting in April 2020? Like how was that even possible? I'm assuming they were considered essential to even be out and about enough to do this?

Sorry if this is nosey...

This is my question too. What the heck is the cover story in the middle of the covid lockdown? Not going to the gym or a work trip....

OP here--yeah, I'm really wondering this too. I didn't ask logistics when talking to my sister for obvious reasons. I know he she has been back in work in person since August 2020 (education related work) and he has been home since March/April 2020. He's also had many work trips (but not before vaccines). I have no idea when you could start an affair with two young kids at the very beginning of Covid! Have no idea...but speculating that he'd be the type to go off on long walks by himself so maybe they'd meet up somewhere? It's a question that nags me too.

*SHE has been back at work, my sister. He has been WFH.

So let's review: For two of their nine year marriage he was cheating (likely more than two; I bet this started when she was pregnant with DC2), affair occurred while they had a baby and a toddler, he got to WFH while she went back in person during Covid, and it sounds like he confessed bc AP broke it off.

Yeah this marriage is toast. I say that with no glee. This is a nuclear bomb and I am so, so sorry for your sister. You sound supportive and loving, and it's the right thing to do to support her as he goes through all the iterations of what comes next, including counseling and attempts to reconcile, as it sounds like she wants that. And I can understand. Love is really hard. But this guy? Nopity nope nope.

This marriage may not end right away. But it will end. I'm sorry, and I'm glad she and her kids have you and your family.

Op here. Thanks for the support. Ugh. so so sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So we host bimonthly cousin sleepovers. We hosted last weekend (when BIL broke the news), they are hosting this weekend. I keep telling her I'm happy to take the kids and/or cancel but she wants to host (says it will be a good distraction). BIL and DS are still living together. I'm not sure I can stomach seeing him right now at pick-up/drop off. Do I ask for him to not be there or suck it up and try to be civil.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Do not send your kids over there to a volatile situation. It is not cool for her to use your kids as a distraction.

Also I wouldn’t feel the need to be civil to that horrible person. No need to yell at him or anything, but being civil is not something he deserves at this point.

I tend to agree with this. Husband should skedaddle for the weekend and maybe you stay with her.

Like, where are the consequences to this guy? Seems like your sister is so invested in staying with him that she's overlooking how incandescently angry she should be.

It’s kind of hilarious that you think him not staying home for the weekend with two extra kids (whom I’m sure he lives, but are still extra kids) is a punishment! If they are fighting, then don’t send them, but if they are being civil and trying to work through it, why would you punish the kids by canceling their sleepover? What would that accomplish? Again, OP, you are far too focused on YOU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So we host bimonthly cousin sleepovers. We hosted last weekend (when BIL broke the news), they are hosting this weekend. I keep telling her I'm happy to take the kids and/or cancel but she wants to host (says it will be a good distraction). BIL and DS are still living together. I'm not sure I can stomach seeing him right now at pick-up/drop off. Do I ask for him to not be there or suck it up and try to be civil.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Do not send your kids over there to a volatile situation. It is not cool for her to use your kids as a distraction.

Also I wouldn’t feel the need to be civil to that horrible person. No need to yell at him or anything, but being civil is not something he deserves at this point.

I tend to agree with this. Husband should skedaddle for the weekend and maybe you stay with her.

Like, where are the consequences to this guy? Seems like your sister is so invested in staying with him that she's overlooking how incandescently angry she should be.

It’s kind of hilarious that you think him not staying home for the weekend with two extra kids (whom I’m sure he lives, but are still extra kids) is a punishment! If they are fighting, then don’t send them, but if they are being civil and trying to work through it, why would you punish the kids by canceling their sleepover? What would that accomplish? Again, OP, you are far too focused on YOU.

I don't understand how asking about what I should do with the kids in the situation is being too focused on me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So we host bimonthly cousin sleepovers. We hosted last weekend (when BIL broke the news), they are hosting this weekend. I keep telling her I'm happy to take the kids and/or cancel but she wants to host (says it will be a good distraction). BIL and DS are still living together. I'm not sure I can stomach seeing him right now at pick-up/drop off. Do I ask for him to not be there or suck it up and try to be civil.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Do not send your kids over there to a volatile situation. It is not cool for her to use your kids as a distraction.

Also I wouldn’t feel the need to be civil to that horrible person. No need to yell at him or anything, but being civil is not something he deserves at this point.

I tend to agree with this. Husband should skedaddle for the weekend and maybe you stay with her.

Like, where are the consequences to this guy? Seems like your sister is so invested in staying with him that she's overlooking how incandescently angry she should be.

It’s kind of hilarious that you think him not staying home for the weekend with two extra kids (whom I’m sure he lives, but are still extra kids) is a punishment! If they are fighting, then don’t send them, but if they are being civil and trying to work through it, why would you punish the kids by canceling their sleepover? What would that accomplish? Again, OP, you are far too focused on YOU.

I don't understand how asking about what I should do with the kids in the situation is being too focused on me?

Because you said that you are not sure that you can stomach seeing him if you drop off/pick up your kids, should you ask for him to leave for the weekend. Maybe your sister wants him there, to try to keep things normal as possible for the kids or so at least she’s not worrying about what he’s doing, who knows. She might not want him there, but at any rate it’s not your place to ask him to leave his house for the weekend so you can feel comfortable. That’s what i meant by making it about you.

As well, if you aren’t concerned about your kids safety or health while there, maybe it would be really good for the cousins and your sister to have some normalcy, and presumably your kids enjoy it too. Your thoughts about cancelling are all about your feelings and directly contradict what your sister says she wants. If you are actually concerned about your kids, that’s a different story, but you only mentioned not wanting to be civil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So we host bimonthly cousin sleepovers. We hosted last weekend (when BIL broke the news), they are hosting this weekend. I keep telling her I'm happy to take the kids and/or cancel but she wants to host (says it will be a good distraction). BIL and DS are still living together. I'm not sure I can stomach seeing him right now at pick-up/drop off. Do I ask for him to not be there or suck it up and try to be civil.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Do not send your kids over there to a volatile situation. It is not cool for her to use your kids as a distraction.

Also I wouldn’t feel the need to be civil to that horrible person. No need to yell at him or anything, but being civil is not something he deserves at this point.

I tend to agree with this. Husband should skedaddle for the weekend and maybe you stay with her.

Like, where are the consequences to this guy? Seems like your sister is so invested in staying with him that she's overlooking how incandescently angry she should be.

It’s kind of hilarious that you think him not staying home for the weekend with two extra kids (whom I’m sure he lives, but are still extra kids) is a punishment! If they are fighting, then don’t send them, but if they are being civil and trying to work through it, why would you punish the kids by canceling their sleepover? What would that accomplish? Again, OP, you are far too focused on YOU.

I don't understand how asking about what I should do with the kids in the situation is being too focused on me?

Because you said that you are not sure that you can stomach seeing him if you drop off/pick up your kids, should you ask for him to leave for the weekend. Maybe your sister wants him there, to try to keep things normal as possible for the kids or so at least she’s not worrying about what he’s doing, who knows. She might not want him there, but at any rate it’s not your place to ask him to leave his house for the weekend so you can feel comfortable. That’s what i meant by making it about you.

As well, if you aren’t concerned about your kids safety or health while there, maybe it would be really good for the cousins and your sister to have some normalcy, and presumably your kids enjoy it too. Your thoughts about cancelling are all about your feelings and directly contradict what your sister says she wants. If you are actually concerned about your kids, that’s a different story, but you only mentioned not wanting to be civil.

I never suggested he should leave for the weekend (also it's only one night). My sister said something about how she still wanted to do the cousin sleepover and that BIL could "make himself scarce" at the dropoff/pick up. Other people are telling me it's crazy to still do the sleepover you're on the other side saying it's selfish not to? I was just looking for a place to vent and seek advice. Please be kind this is a lot to process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you're getting such knee-jerk "divorce now" posts, OP. While that may be the eventual end here, people angrily posting she should divorce ASAP are not in her shoes, and this is all very raw and new for her. It's not helpful when folks just bleat "divorce" at every OP who comes here.

Also sorry about posters ragging on you for "making this about you" etc. You're giving us your perspective and that's fine! YOU need to get this out and vent somewhere too. Of course you're affected. Better to tell that to us strangers than to your poor sister right now.

Very short-term, focus on what you can do specifically to give her breathing space and time when she is not having to watch her kids. Offer to take them not just for overnights but also for outings or daytime visits or whatever. Tell her you know she needs some time to think and having kids around is not conducive to that, and you will gladly distract the kids.

It is hard to get therapists right now, as you note, but she needs an indvidual one for herself and they need a couples therapist who has a track record working with infidelity situations. If she is OK with it -- she might not be, and that's all right -- offer to do some online research and make some calls to see if you can help her land a therapist(s). Did she try their insurance company's list of therapists? Are they open to virtual therapy over Zoom if that's what they can get? Try the Women's Center (two in the area) and see if they have suggestions re: finding therapy these days (they can also help find things like sliding scale fee therapists etc., if money is an issue). Or put out a post here on DCUM asking for people to name any good couples therapists they used in an affair situation. (I would not do this on this thread but would start a new one JUST asking for names; be sure to give a location like MD suburbs or only in the District etc.).

If she's really thrown by this, you might offer to help with any day to day stuff like picking up her kid from preschool if that's a thing, or bringing over dinner (sneak in enough for two meals for them all) and say it's 'just because") etc. You do not want her feel you think she's helpless! But if you can make some things easier without intruding, think what those things might be.

Most of all ASK her clearly how you can help. Say you do not want to interfere but if she needs concrete help with kids or tasks, to free up her time for finding therapy, going to therapy, spending time with DH working on this, etc. you will help. You sound like a great sister. I'm sorry she's going through this. I do think there will be more bombshells potentially coming, OP, so be ready for that; it seems unlikely that an affair would only start with the start of the pandemic, so there may be more revelations.

And absolutely tell her she needs an STD test NOW. And she should insist that he get one too. Frankly in her shoes I'd make the appointment for him and demand to see the results on paper afterward, and would not trust to "I went to the doctor and I'm fine." People are sayng she needs testing which is true, but he must get it too.

Op here. Thank you for this sensitive and thoughtful post! Lots of good ideas. I don't know if I'm brave enough to broach the STD topic. They are definitely researching lots of therapists for marriage counseling and individual. [b]

Something about claiming they are doing all sorts of research on marriage counseling is just a red flag to me, honestly. Life and parenting is hard enough. Pinning hopes on saving a marriage that is so broken on counseling is a fools errand. Your BIL is playing along because he thinks he has your sister in a mindset that she’s desperate to “fix” this so that she can stay in the marriage because she’s terrified of the alternative. So he’s going to play along for a while. I’m not arguing that you should lobby for her to divorce, but I do think you should reassure her that her life and her Children’s lives will be fine regardless of what becomes of their marriage and that you will always be there for her. And do what you can to help her envision a life with just her and the kids. Also, tell her to be smart and get her financial house in order just in case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you're getting such knee-jerk "divorce now" posts, OP. While that may be the eventual end here, people angrily posting she should divorce ASAP are not in her shoes, and this is all very raw and new for her. It's not helpful when folks just bleat "divorce" at every OP who comes here.

Also sorry about posters ragging on you for "making this about you" etc. You're giving us your perspective and that's fine! YOU need to get this out and vent somewhere too. Of course you're affected. Better to tell that to us strangers than to your poor sister right now.

Very short-term, focus on what you can do specifically to give her breathing space and time when she is not having to watch her kids. Offer to take them not just for overnights but also for outings or daytime visits or whatever. Tell her you know she needs some time to think and having kids around is not conducive to that, and you will gladly distract the kids.

It is hard to get therapists right now, as you note, but she needs an indvidual one for herself and they need a couples therapist who has a track record working with infidelity situations. If she is OK with it -- she might not be, and that's all right -- offer to do some online research and make some calls to see if you can help her land a therapist(s). Did she try their insurance company's list of therapists? Are they open to virtual therapy over Zoom if that's what they can get? Try the Women's Center (two in the area) and see if they have suggestions re: finding therapy these days (they can also help find things like sliding scale fee therapists etc., if money is an issue). Or put out a post here on DCUM asking for people to name any good couples therapists they used in an affair situation. (I would not do this on this thread but would start a new one JUST asking for names; be sure to give a location like MD suburbs or only in the District etc.).

If she's really thrown by this, you might offer to help with any day to day stuff like picking up her kid from preschool if that's a thing, or bringing over dinner (sneak in enough for two meals for them all) and say it's 'just because") etc. You do not want her feel you think she's helpless! But if you can make some things easier without intruding, think what those things might be.

Most of all ASK her clearly how you can help. Say you do not want to interfere but if she needs concrete help with kids or tasks, to free up her time for finding therapy, going to therapy, spending time with DH working on this, etc. you will help. You sound like a great sister. I'm sorry she's going through this. I do think there will be more bombshells potentially coming, OP, so be ready for that; it seems unlikely that an affair would only start with the start of the pandemic, so there may be more revelations.

And absolutely tell her she needs an STD test NOW. And she should insist that he get one too. Frankly in her shoes I'd make the appointment for him and demand to see the results on paper afterward, and would not trust to "I went to the doctor and I'm fine." People are sayng she needs testing which is true, but he must get it too.

Op here. Thank you for this sensitive and thoughtful post! Lots of good ideas. I don't know if I'm brave enough to broach the STD topic. They are definitely researching lots of therapists for marriage counseling and individual. [b]

Something about claiming they are doing all sorts of research on marriage counseling is just a red flag to me, honestly. Life and parenting is hard enough. Pinning hopes on saving a marriage that is so broken on counseling is a fools errand. Your BIL is playing along because he thinks he has your sister in a mindset that she’s desperate to “fix” this so that she can stay in the marriage because she’s terrified of the alternative. So he’s going to play along for a while. I’m not arguing that you should lobby for her to divorce, but I do think you should reassure her that her life and her Children’s lives will be fine regardless of what becomes of their marriage and that you will always be there for her. And do what you can to help her envision a life with just her and the kids. Also, tell her to be smart and get her financial house in order just in case.

Yeah that's smart advice. We're having some alone time together this weekend in person after the sleepover, so I'll have that talk.