Is there more gender and sexual fluidity now among teen girls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it more common? No.
Are girls less afraid to talk about it? Yes.

Many women in my age group were closeted lesbians growing up. So yes, girls are less afraid to talk about it nowadays. That’s a good thing.
But there is no way you will convince me that the trans kids were ALWAYS there in the numbers reported now.
Yes there were some. But not hundred in a single high school.
It’s manufactured.

It is manufactured but not in the way the right wing claims. Or rather than manufactured, I think it’s a natural outgrowth of a hyper consumerist society where everything is individualized to each person. And with the rise of social media, people started presenting their self in a curated way. This is simply another angle to that. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t feel real. Our brains are influenced by culture.

I laugh at the right wing critiques. They love individualism when it comes to gun rights, stand your ground laws and corporations as people, but they need their fainting couch because girls aren’t interested in confirming to traditional femininity. After they ban abortion, they should expect the phenomenon of women rejecting sexual with men at all to grow. It’s a bad frickin deal and Gen Z knows it.

I’m not worried about girls rejecting traditional femininity and I agree there is likely an undercurrent brought on my the erosion of rights related to womens’ bodily autonomy.
I don’t think telling girls they can become boys is the answer though.
It seems like every week now, I hear about another friend’s child coming out as NB or trans masculine. Many times is is a child who previously identified as lesbian.

My point of concern is that I'm raising a lesbian. We've known she was gay for a long time... She kind of came out at ten, but it wasn't said as much as just accepted. She's got ASD (genuinely, not trendily) and doesn't really have any friends in high school, male or female. She's happy enough like that, and I am confident she will find plher path and her people.

Here's what bothers me: when she looks online to figure stuff out everything she sees pushes her into being nonbinary or trans. Everything. There is no identity for lesbians. Even her peers at school think she's probably trans because she has short hair and likes video games.

We talked a little about it the other day. "Do you like boy stuff? The way they look and act?" I asked her.

She made a disgusted face. "No, they're gross."

"Then you probably don't want to take testosterone and get a mastectomy and become one," I said. Because she had been wondering if she should. Because everything she sees online tells her that's the path for kids like her.

My daughter isn't stupid. Sheltered, yes. Socially awkward, yes. Blessedly immune to peer pressure in most ways. But even she's getting this crap.

I bet popular quirky girls don't stand a chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly think girls right now are using this as the new way to deal with the realization we all come to at puberty that being a cis-girl can s-u-c-k. I think the large numbers are a result of it being a socialization/peer pressure thing. There is no doubt there are gender-fluid, non-binary, trans people, etc etc., but it from those I know, they knew from childhood. I am interested to see where this goes over the next 10 years.

+1
I know this is from February, but I think this is a huuuuuuuge part of it. From periods and feeling like an effing moose in your new body but wanting to be body positive to the girls who have noticed that it’s 2022 and the GOP is attacking women’s rights harder than ever before… yeah. I bet not being pigeon-holed as a girl looks damn attractive.

Of course. That's why do many of us are disturbed by the trend to erase women.

There is nothing wrong with being female. There's nothing wrong with medically having female body parts and using them for female things, like birthing a child.

A transmale person who wants to do that is medically a woman, in terms of their reproductive parts. They can be a man everywhere else. They exist on an overlapping piece of a Venn diagram.

Erasing terms like "pregnant women," to make them more comfortable at the expense of about 50% of the human population is not okay. When you take away the word "woman" and replace it with body parts, or worse, euphemisms like "front hole" and "chestfeeding" you are erasing us.

Seeing well-intentioned newscasters discuss abortion rights and refusing to use the word "woman" is making me sick. And tired. It shouldn't be like this. We've failed our daughters and our son's, all of them, that we've erased women like this

Excuse me, what?! Where are you hearing this? Serious question. I am seriously disturbed by this....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly think girls right now are using this as the new way to deal with the realization we all come to at puberty that being a cis-girl can s-u-c-k. I think the large numbers are a result of it being a socialization/peer pressure thing. There is no doubt there are gender-fluid, non-binary, trans people, etc etc., but it from those I know, they knew from childhood. I am interested to see where this goes over the next 10 years.

+1
I know this is from February, but I think this is a huuuuuuuge part of it. From periods and feeling like an effing moose in your new body but wanting to be body positive to the girls who have noticed that it’s 2022 and the GOP is attacking women’s rights harder than ever before… yeah. I bet not being pigeon-holed as a girl looks damn attractive.

Of course. That's why do many of us are disturbed by the trend to erase women.

There is nothing wrong with being female. There's nothing wrong with medically having female body parts and using them for female things, like birthing a child.

A transmale person who wants to do that is medically a woman, in terms of their reproductive parts. They can be a man everywhere else. They exist on an overlapping piece of a Venn diagram.

Erasing terms like "pregnant women," to make them more comfortable at the expense of about 50% of the human population is not okay. When you take away the word "woman" and replace it with body parts, or worse, euphemisms like "front hole" and "chestfeeding" you are erasing us.

Seeing well-intentioned newscasters discuss abortion rights and refusing to use the word "woman" is making me sick. And tired. It shouldn't be like this. We've failed our daughters and our son's, all of them, that we've erased women like this

Excuse me, what?! Where are you hearing this? Serious question. I am seriously disturbed by this....

Some limited number of people are using terms like that to be inclusive of trans men and non-binary AFAB people. The right wing media acts like it's related to transgender women but it has nothing to do with trans woman. Think about it, trans woman want breasts. Why Trans women are women. Trans women cannot get pregnant and therefore will never be a pregnant woman or a pregnant person. Trans men can get pregnant and don't want to be called pregnant women so pregnant person is inclusive of trans men (although most have no desire to get pregnant TBH - some do want bio kids though). It isn't an erasure of cisgendered women because if a cis woman is pregnant, she can be described as either a pregnant woman or a pregnant person. In most cases a room of pregnant people are all cis women and there's no reason to use inclusive language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly think girls right now are using this as the new way to deal with the realization we all come to at puberty that being a cis-girl can s-u-c-k. I think the large numbers are a result of it being a socialization/peer pressure thing. There is no doubt there are gender-fluid, non-binary, trans people, etc etc., but it from those I know, they knew from childhood. I am interested to see where this goes over the next 10 years.

+1
I know this is from February, but I think this is a huuuuuuuge part of it. From periods and feeling like an effing moose in your new body but wanting to be body positive to the girls who have noticed that it’s 2022 and the GOP is attacking women’s rights harder than ever before… yeah. I bet not being pigeon-holed as a girl looks damn attractive.

Of course. That's why do many of us are disturbed by the trend to erase women.

There is nothing wrong with being female. There's nothing wrong with medically having female body parts and using them for female things, like birthing a child.

A transmale person who wants to do that is medically a woman, in terms of their reproductive parts. They can be a man everywhere else. They exist on an overlapping piece of a Venn diagram.

Erasing terms like "pregnant women," to make them more comfortable at the expense of about 50% of the human population is not okay. When you take away the word "woman" and replace it with body parts, or worse, euphemisms like "front hole" and "chestfeeding" you are erasing us.

Seeing well-intentioned newscasters discuss abortion rights and refusing to use the word "woman" is making me sick. And tired. It shouldn't be like this. We've failed our daughters and our son's, all of them, that we've erased women like this

Excuse me, what?! Where are you hearing this? Serious question. I am seriously disturbed by this....

Some limited number of people are using terms like that to be inclusive of trans men and non-binary AFAB people. The right wing media acts like it's related to transgender women but it has nothing to do with trans woman. Think about it, trans woman want breasts. Why Trans women are women. Trans women cannot get pregnant and therefore will never be a pregnant woman or a pregnant person. Trans men can get pregnant and don't want to be called pregnant women so pregnant person is inclusive of trans men (although most have no desire to get pregnant TBH - some do want bio kids though). It isn't an erasure of cisgendered women because if a cis woman is pregnant, she can be described as either a pregnant woman or a pregnant person. In most cases a room of pregnant people are all cis women and there's no reason to use inclusive language.

Of course you exist. No one denies that. You are a woman. Or a man. Whichever it is that you transitioned into becoming.

If you existed and had been put on puberty blockers when you were 12 odds are you would now be existing with osteoporosis, reduced brain development, and prepubescent parts of your body that never developed... But I am assuming you were not and it's more of a wistful thing for you.

We're not transphobic when we question paradigms like "puberty blockers are harmless." There's a school of thought that thinks interfering with human brain and bone development in adolescence isn't without consequence, and that teaching kids they are two options: one: suicide or two: lifetime medical intervention is... How shall I put this? Batshit insane.

As for the front hole bs, if humans were reasonable creatures I'd agree with you: those terms only exist for very dysphoric transmen who need words for things.

Unfortunately, we live in a very stupid society that is incapable of nuance. So what happens is those words are blanket applied to everyone. Everyone. The fact that so many people also hate women comes into play. It's easy to dehumanize the caregivers. They should be selfless after all. And we have thousands of years of history to fall back on.

No one cares what genitals you were born with, or what you did with them. I care a lot that my lesbian daughter is getting pressure to become a man... When she doesn't like men. That's kind of the point.

[Anonymous]

There is a new thread on the teens and tweens forum about this. Interesting read. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/935024.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a new thread on the teens and tweens forum about this. Interesting read. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/935024.page

That thread is from 2020 so I'm wondering what you get out of calling it "new."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cisgender is different than heterosexual. Many people seem to be conflating the two?

Op, a number of my teen’s female friends say they’re bisexual, but only one or two are gender fluid or not cisgender. Definitely not 50%.

I'm the OP. You're right, I'm probably overly broad in my language usage. What I meant to say is: if I look at all the girls, and add up the ones who are either gender nonconforming or those who are not straight (lesbian or bi or pan) I think it's over 50%. So not many girls who both identify as girls and as straight, which was probably 95% of the girls I grew up with.

But as some here have pointed out, it does seem like girls nowadays -- or at least, girls in my daughter's peer group -- are not into being defined in the ways currently available to them.

Also, just to answer the comment, I'm not actually worried about it per se. Just curious if it's a thing and why.

It is definitely a thing, but I think it's useful to look at how the kids are using this language rather than how we would define it from our Gen X (or whatever) perspective.

When my kid says they are "nonbinary," they are saying that they don't feel like the stereotypical boy/girl that they see reflected in popular society, and that they want to exist in an "in between" space. They don't want to be perfectly sexless, they just don't feel like they fit in traditional femininity/masculinity.

Similarly, when my kid says they are "queer," they mean that they are willing to date anyone on the gender spectrum if they happen to like that person. So, if my nonbinary kid dates a cis kid, that's a "queer" relationship because one of the partners does not identify as cis. Similarly, if my cis kid dates a binary trans kid, that's also a "queer" relationship. So, they use this umbrella term to mean that they are open to dating anyone, which is different than how the word would have been used in our teen years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly think girls right now are using this as the new way to deal with the realization we all come to at puberty that being a cis-girl can s-u-c-k. I think the large numbers are a result of it being a socialization/peer pressure thing. There is no doubt there are gender-fluid, non-binary, trans people, etc etc., but it from those I know, they knew from childhood. I am interested to see where this goes over the next 10 years.

+1
I know this is from February, but I think this is a huuuuuuuge part of it. From periods and feeling like an effing moose in your new body but wanting to be body positive to the girls who have noticed that it’s 2022 and the GOP is attacking women’s rights harder than ever before… yeah. I bet not being pigeon-holed as a girl looks damn attractive.

Of course. That's why do many of us are disturbed by the trend to erase women.

There is nothing wrong with being female. There's nothing wrong with medically having female body parts and using them for female things, like birthing a child.

A transmale person who wants to do that is medically a woman, in terms of their reproductive parts. They can be a man everywhere else. They exist on an overlapping piece of a Venn diagram.

Erasing terms like "pregnant women," to make them more comfortable at the expense of about 50% of the human population is not okay. When you take away the word "woman" and replace it with body parts, or worse, euphemisms like "front hole" and "chestfeeding" you are erasing us.

Seeing well-intentioned newscasters discuss abortion rights and refusing to use the word "woman" is making me sick. And tired. It shouldn't be like this. We've failed our daughters and our son's, all of them, that we've erased women like this

Excuse me, what?! Where are you hearing this? Serious question. I am seriously disturbed by this....

Some limited number of people are using terms like that to be inclusive of trans men and non-binary AFAB people. The right wing media acts like it's related to transgender women but it has nothing to do with trans woman. Think about it, trans woman want breasts. Why Trans women are women. Trans women cannot get pregnant and therefore will never be a pregnant woman or a pregnant person. Trans men can get pregnant and don't want to be called pregnant women so pregnant person is inclusive of trans men (although most have no desire to get pregnant TBH - some do want bio kids though). It isn't an erasure of cisgendered women because if a cis woman is pregnant, she can be described as either a pregnant woman or a pregnant person. In most cases a room of pregnant people are all cis women and there's no reason to use inclusive language.

Of course you exist. No one denies that. You are a woman. Or a man. Whichever it is that you transitioned into becoming.

If you existed and had been put on puberty blockers when you were 12 odds are you would now be existing with osteoporosis, reduced brain development, and prepubescent parts of your body that never developed... But I am assuming you were not and it's more of a wistful thing for you.

We're not transphobic when we question paradigms like "puberty blockers are harmless." There's a school of thought that thinks interfering with human brain and bone development in adolescence isn't without consequence, and that teaching kids they are two options: one: suicide or two: lifetime medical intervention is... How shall I put this? Batshit insane.

As for the front hole bs, if humans were reasonable creatures I'd agree with you: those terms only exist for very dysphoric transmen who need words for things.

Unfortunately, we live in a very stupid society that is incapable of nuance. So what happens is those words are blanket applied to everyone. Everyone. The fact that so many people also hate women comes into play. It's easy to dehumanize the caregivers. They should be selfless after all. And we have thousands of years of history to fall back on.

No one cares what genitals you were born with, or what you did with them. I care a lot that my lesbian daughter is getting pressure to become a man... When she doesn't like men. That's kind of the point.

If someone is cis, they should not transition. If someone is trans and they aren't sure if they want to transition then they also should not transition. Trans people are generally very accepting of people's sexual and gender identities. I'm not sure who you're talking to but I don't know any actual real life trans people that would try to convince a cis person to transition. I'm not even sure why you feel like you have to mention that she's a lesbian. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with being transgender, which is something any actual trans person would know and say. Trans people can be gay, straight, or bi.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a new thread on the teens and tweens forum about this. Interesting read. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/935024.page

That thread is from 2020 so I'm wondering what you get out of calling it "new."

It started in 2020 but has been bumped lately with some updates. Yeeesh

[Anonymous]

In the last week alone, 2 friend’s daughters are now saying they are non-binary or trans, and medical transition related stuff just turned up on my 11 year old daughter’s internet history. Can we just acknowledge that there is an epidemic going on here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the last week alone, 2 friend’s daughters are now saying they are non-binary or trans, and medical transition related stuff just turned up on my 11 year old daughter’s internet history. Can we just acknowledge that there is an epidemic going on here?

Yes, thank you. I just listened to a NYTimes “The Argument” podcast about queer kids, and the host was completely oblivious to this trend, claiming that these are just kids who never would have had the opportunity to come out in the past, and anyone raising any concern is just transphobic. I have always considered myself liberal but I am getting fed up with people telling me I’m not seeing what’s right in front of me. I don’t think it’s just natural human variation that literally a majority of my son’s teenage female friends feel they are supposed to be boys at the moment.

[Anonymous]

Similar thread in teens an tweens forum now. I posted this there yesterday. I know people will think I’m being over dramatic but whatever. It’s an anonymous forum so here’s the real me.

My daughter has started they/them pronouns and I’m having a hard time with it. She is 18 and I feel like it’s a lot different then being 11 or 12. I’m suspicious that too many Instagram or TikTok influencers are getting to her. Personally I don’t like this whole part of the “woke” agenda and I’ll only come across as being a Trumper (Hell no, I’m not) if I say anything. So I say nothing, and secretly cry because I want my beautiful daughter to be a girl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Similar thread in teens an tweens forum now. I posted this there yesterday. I know people will think I’m being over dramatic but whatever. It’s an anonymous forum so here’s the real me.

My daughter has started they/them pronouns and I’m having a hard time with it. She is 18 and I feel like it’s a lot different then being 11 or 12. I’m suspicious that too many Instagram or TikTok influencers are getting to her. Personally I don’t like this whole part of the “woke” agenda and I’ll only come across as being a Trumper (Hell no, I’m not) if I say anything. So I say nothing, and secretly cry because I want my beautiful daughter to be a girl.

They are still your beautiful child!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Similar thread in teens an tweens forum now. I posted this there yesterday. I know people will think I’m being over dramatic but whatever. It’s an anonymous forum so here’s the real me.

My daughter has started they/them pronouns and I’m having a hard time with it. She is 18 and I feel like it’s a lot different then being 11 or 12. I’m suspicious that too many Instagram or TikTok influencers are getting to her. Personally I don’t like this whole part of the “woke” agenda and I’ll only come across as being a Trumper (Hell no, I’m not) if I say anything. So I say nothing, and secretly cry because I want my beautiful daughter to be a girl.

\

Okay. really think this through for a moment...hear the word :agenda." This is the same talk we heard in the 80s and 90s and early aughts about the "gay agenda." It's really offensive.
What/who is doing this pressuring on social media?
Because I can tell you that no LGBTQ+ person would ever want someone else to be different than who they naturally are...as people who grew up in a world in which we were not accepted for who we are, we would not and do not pressure people to embrace a fake identity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Similar thread in teens an tweens forum now. I posted this there yesterday. I know people will think I’m being over dramatic but whatever. It’s an anonymous forum so here’s the real me.

My daughter has started they/them pronouns and I’m having a hard time with it. She is 18 and I feel like it’s a lot different then being 11 or 12. I’m suspicious that too many Instagram or TikTok influencers are getting to her. Personally I don’t like this whole part of the “woke” agenda and I’ll only come across as being a Trumper (Hell no, I’m not) if I say anything. So I say nothing, and secretly cry because I want my beautiful daughter to be a girl.

\

Okay. really think this through for a moment...hear the word :agenda." This is the same talk we heard in the 80s and 90s and early aughts about the "gay agenda." It's really offensive.
What/who is doing this pressuring on social media?
Because I can tell you that no LGBTQ+ person would ever want someone else to be different than who they naturally are...as people who grew up in a world in which we were not accepted for who we are, we would not and do not pressure people to embrace a fake identity.

I’m A different poster. It seems like you are not aware of all of the stuff that is on TickTock YouTube everywhere about non-binary and trans identities. Do you have a teen daughter? If you do I find it hard to believe that you haven’t been hearing about all of this. I am the mother of a tween, my daughter has been out as a lesbian since she was nine years old. No big deal to me since I’m a lesbian to. But the transgender stuff is different. I am hearing from my daughter and from friends with girls age 10 to 14 especially That this is a big trend.

We are actually getting away from the idea of accepting people as they naturally are, and instead , we are seeing young people lead into medicalization and body modifications. How is that progress? It’s like the exact opposite of progress and completely the opposite of the kind of positive messaging that I thought we were trying to give teens which is to love who they are and not try to be something different. There is something really toxic going on, I don’t think there is a concerted effort or a conspiracy or anything like that but there is some thing really off about what is happening especially with teen girls right now.