Is there more gender and sexual fluidity now among teen girls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does one be supportive when they are skeptical? I feel like my 18 yr old daughter is all about being gay right now. In fact, it's the only thing she is about. I can see her instagram and have seen a few random texts. She is constantly "liking" queer IG posts, and texting the pride flag in almost every text. Like almost it's a joke it is so much.

I know there is no one path for sexuality, but forgive me for doubting when the path is no questionig at all, then covid, and then endless tiktok. It's almost like "doth protest too much" only the opposite.

I am going through similar and spoke to a great therapist last week who works with transgender people individually and in groups. He’s a doctorate and heavily into research. This is what he told me: There are three current categories in which to place individuals who identify as transgender. The first group are true transgender, in which research shows is .5 to .8 of the population at most, and goes back into the earliest days of childhood. The second group are people who are having trouble accepting their homosexuality and thus identify as the opposite sex as a mental coping skill. Those who have gender surgery and other irreversible changes early in their teens/adulthood often results in tragic consequences. The third are not true transgender but identify as such due to self esteem issues, trends, other mental disorders, especially OCD. Those that are learning disabled, ADHD, and/or on the autism spectrum are especially vulnerable. He also said that a good therapist will try and unwrap what’s really going on, but there are a host of therapists, doctors, etc. looking to financially capitalize. A whole new category of people needing specialized treatment is a cash cow.

So much this. We need to pin this post about the three different categories so we can all refer back to it while having conversations. The majority of kids identifying as trans today actually belong to that third category. What is super not helpful, is when people talk about kids in category 3 but with "solutions" that are only appropriate for category 1.

I wrote that post. Yes. That's what the therapist was saying. Another statement was that a lot of the suicides that occur is not due to non acceptance and abuse by others, but non acceptance and abuse of themselves. Therapy needs to be aimed at carefully unwrapping the issues a person has and treating them appropriately. If that's not done, the risk of suicide goes up dramatically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does one be supportive when they are skeptical? I feel like my 18 yr old daughter is all about being gay right now. In fact, it's the only thing she is about. I can see her instagram and have seen a few random texts. She is constantly "liking" queer IG posts, and texting the pride flag in almost every text. Like almost it's a joke it is so much.

I know there is no one path for sexuality, but forgive me for doubting when the path is no questionig at all, then covid, and then endless tiktok. It's almost like "doth protest too much" only the opposite.

I am going through similar and spoke to a great therapist last week who works with transgender people individually and in groups. He’s a doctorate and heavily into research. This is what he told me: There are three current categories in which to place individuals who identify as transgender. The first group are true transgender, in which research shows is .5 to .8 of the population at most, and goes back into the earliest days of childhood. The second group are people who are having trouble accepting their homosexuality and thus identify as the opposite sex as a mental coping skill. Those who have gender surgery and other irreversible changes early in their teens/adulthood often results in tragic consequences. The third are not true transgender but identify as such due to self esteem issues, trends, other mental disorders, especially OCD. Those that are learning disabled, ADHD, and/or on the autism spectrum are especially vulnerable. He also said that a good therapist will try and unwrap what’s really going on, but there are a host of therapists, doctors, etc. looking to financially capitalize. A whole new category of people needing specialized treatment is a cash cow.

So much this. We need to pin this post about the three different categories so we can all refer back to it while having conversations. The majority of kids identifying as trans today actually belong to that third category. What is super not helpful, is when people talk about kids in category 3 but with "solutions" that are only appropriate for category 1.

FWIW, I know a ton of gender fluid and nonbinary and trans teens, and only ONE is receiving any sort of treatment beyond talk therapy. That kid clearly belongs in Category 1 and has since early early childhood, and is under the care of a team of professionals that include both mental and physical health specialists.

The rest, to the degree that they are being "treated," are being treated for regular teen stuff. Anxiety, depression, general family discord, etc. In talking to the kids and their parents, it's also clear that they are getting help for those things, which is exactly what we would want. If you can treat the depression and the gender struggles get better, that's a good outcome for everyone because that's fewer struggles.

Basically, I think it's time we treat this the way we do abortion. This is a matter for a person to tackle together with their healthcare provider and without a bunch of sensationalized stories about something a friend's friend's cousin heard on the radio about an epidemic of radical hysterectomies in teens.

I agree for the most part. The problem is the enormous number of doctors and therapists operating both online and in office who see this as a cash cow. Add to this, school systems aiding the dysphoria which is NOT their job. Protecting the child while there? Yes. Punishing bullying, yes. Magic closets? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a mixture of groupthink bandwagoning of popular culture coupled with life imitating art imitating life.

At 50% of girls in middle school? Agree 100%. It's the new fad, the new goth/punk/grunge but even more popular due to all the messaging on TV, social media, tik tok, and material taught at school about it. The fad is omnipresent. I don't believe half of girls are LGBTQIA organically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does one be supportive when they are skeptical? I feel like my 18 yr old daughter is all about being gay right now. In fact, it's the only thing she is about. I can see her instagram and have seen a few random texts. She is constantly "liking" queer IG posts, and texting the pride flag in almost every text. Like almost it's a joke it is so much.

I know there is no one path for sexuality, but forgive me for doubting when the path is no questionig at all, then covid, and then endless tiktok. It's almost like "doth protest too much" only the opposite.

I am going through similar and spoke to a great therapist last week who works with transgender people individually and in groups. He’s a doctorate and heavily into research. This is what he told me: There are three current categories in which to place individuals who identify as transgender. The first group are true transgender, in which research shows is .5 to .8 of the population at most, and goes back into the earliest days of childhood. The second group are people who are having trouble accepting their homosexuality and thus identify as the opposite sex as a mental coping skill. Those who have gender surgery and other irreversible changes early in their teens/adulthood often results in tragic consequences. The third are not true transgender but identify as such due to self esteem issues, trends, other mental disorders, especially OCD. Those that are learning disabled, ADHD, and/or on the autism spectrum are especially vulnerable. He also said that a good therapist will try and unwrap what’s really going on, but there are a host of therapists, doctors, etc. looking to financially capitalize. A whole new category of people needing specialized treatment is a cash cow.

Bull crap.

Please link to any “research” that says this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does one be supportive when they are skeptical? I feel like my 18 yr old daughter is all about being gay right now. In fact, it's the only thing she is about. I can see her instagram and have seen a few random texts. She is constantly "liking" queer IG posts, and texting the pride flag in almost every text. Like almost it's a joke it is so much.

I know there is no one path for sexuality, but forgive me for doubting when the path is no questionig at all, then covid, and then endless tiktok. It's almost like "doth protest too much" only the opposite.

I am going through similar and spoke to a great therapist last week who works with transgender people individually and in groups. He’s a doctorate and heavily into research. This is what he told me: There are three current categories in which to place individuals who identify as transgender. The first group are true transgender, in which research shows is .5 to .8 of the population at most, and goes back into the earliest days of childhood. The second group are people who are having trouble accepting their homosexuality and thus identify as the opposite sex as a mental coping skill. Those who have gender surgery and other irreversible changes early in their teens/adulthood often results in tragic consequences. The third are not true transgender but identify as such due to self esteem issues, trends, other mental disorders, especially OCD. Those that are learning disabled, ADHD, and/or on the autism spectrum are especially vulnerable. He also said that a good therapist will try and unwrap what’s really going on, but there are a host of therapists, doctors, etc. looking to financially capitalize. A whole new category of people needing specialized treatment is a cash cow.

Bull crap.

Please link to any “research” that says this.

I’d like you to link research as well, but I don’t call Bull Crap. I think it sounds legit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does one be supportive when they are skeptical? I feel like my 18 yr old daughter is all about being gay right now. In fact, it's the only thing she is about. I can see her instagram and have seen a few random texts. She is constantly "liking" queer IG posts, and texting the pride flag in almost every text. Like almost it's a joke it is so much.

I know there is no one path for sexuality, but forgive me for doubting when the path is no questionig at all, then covid, and then endless tiktok. It's almost like "doth protest too much" only the opposite.

I am going through similar and spoke to a great therapist last week who works with transgender people individually and in groups. He’s a doctorate and heavily into research. This is what he told me: There are three current categories in which to place individuals who identify as transgender. The first group are true transgender, in which research shows is .5 to .8 of the population at most, and goes back into the earliest days of childhood. The second group are people who are having trouble accepting their homosexuality and thus identify as the opposite sex as a mental coping skill. Those who have gender surgery and other irreversible changes early in their teens/adulthood often results in tragic consequences. The third are not true transgender but identify as such due to self esteem issues, trends, other mental disorders, especially OCD. Those that are learning disabled, ADHD, and/or on the autism spectrum are especially vulnerable. He also said that a good therapist will try and unwrap what’s really going on, but there are a host of therapists, doctors, etc. looking to financially capitalize. A whole new category of people needing specialized treatment is a cash cow.

Bull crap.

Please link to any “research” that says this.

I’d like you to link research as well, but I don’t call Bull Crap. I think it sounds legit.

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity/

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/13/5-key-findings-about-lgbt-americans/

True transgenderism starts early:

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trans-children-sense-their-gender-identities-young-ages-study-suggests-n1107266

That’s a start anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does one be supportive when they are skeptical? I feel like my 18 yr old daughter is all about being gay right now. In fact, it's the only thing she is about. I can see her instagram and have seen a few random texts. She is constantly "liking" queer IG posts, and texting the pride flag in almost every text. Like almost it's a joke it is so much.

I know there is no one path for sexuality, but forgive me for doubting when the path is no questionig at all, then covid, and then endless tiktok. It's almost like "doth protest too much" only the opposite.

I am going through similar and spoke to a great therapist last week who works with transgender people individually and in groups. He’s a doctorate and heavily into research. This is what he told me: There are three current categories in which to place individuals who identify as transgender. The first group are true transgender, in which research shows is .5 to .8 of the population at most, and goes back into the earliest days of childhood. The second group are people who are having trouble accepting their homosexuality and thus identify as the opposite sex as a mental coping skill. Those who have gender surgery and other irreversible changes early in their teens/adulthood often results in tragic consequences. The third are not true transgender but identify as such due to self esteem issues, trends, other mental disorders, especially OCD. Those that are learning disabled, ADHD, and/or on the autism spectrum are especially vulnerable. He also said that a good therapist will try and unwrap what’s really going on, but there are a host of therapists, doctors, etc. looking to financially capitalize. A whole new category of people needing specialized treatment is a cash cow.

Bull crap.

Please link to any “research” that says this.

Research put into quotes means you will dismiss anything that doesn’t meet your approved feelings toward the subject.

[Anonymous]

Let's also be crystal clear about the difference between being concerned that your non-trans (according to the parent) kid identifies as trans and being concerned that your non-gay (according to the parent) kid identifies as gay.

They're being conflated, because the same people think both are icky. They're actually really different. One describes a medical condition that is treated with various interventions. The other simply describes an orientation. A mistaken trans identity could, under some circumstances, lead to unnecessary or damaging medical interventions. A mistaken gay identity could lead to... gay relationships and/or gay sex.

The first is legitimate cause for concern, because unnecessary medical treatment can be harmful. The second is only cause for concern if you think there's something wrong with being gay. I can emphasize with parents concerned about 1) but pearl-clutching about 2) is both pointless and futile. It's a rare person who hasn't had some form of sex or relationship that later turned out to be yeah, not my cup of tea. If your kids experiment with gay sex or gay relationships, and they're not actually gay, their straightness will swiftly reveal itself. And I promise you, they'll survive just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's also be crystal clear about the difference between being concerned that your non-trans (according to the parent) kid identifies as trans and being concerned that your non-gay (according to the parent) kid identifies as gay.

They're being conflated, because the same people think both are icky. They're actually really different. One describes a medical condition that is treated with various interventions. The other simply describes an orientation. A mistaken trans identity could, under some circumstances, lead to unnecessary or damaging medical interventions. A mistaken gay identity could lead to... gay relationships and/or gay sex.

The first is legitimate cause for concern, because unnecessary medical treatment can be harmful. The second is only cause for concern if you think there's something wrong with being gay. I can emphasize with parents concerned about 1) but pearl-clutching about 2) is both pointless and futile. It's a rare person who hasn't had some form of sex or relationship that later turned out to be yeah, not my cup of tea. If your kids experiment with gay sex or gay relationships, and they're not actually gay, their straightness will swiftly reveal itself. And I promise you, they'll survive just fine.

The problem is, outside of a liberal bubble, those two things will be conflated. Iran and Thailand are both countries where gay men typically transition. That's more socially acceptable. It would be ignorant to think the same wouldn't happen in some parts of the Bible Belt.

Frontline did a documentary about ten years ago that found just that, actually. A bunch of conservative families embracing their *new* daughters and sons.

While being trans has nothing inherently to do with gender preference, it is childishly naive to think that isn't a factor in some transitions. Another reason, some think, why children shouldn't medically transition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the mom of a kick-ass middle school girl who came out to us as pansexual last year. Once I learned what pansexual meant...(ahem, I guess I'm an old lady)...I was like, cool, you be you. Just get back to me when there's an actual girlfriend/boyfriend in the picture.

The thing I am baffled by, though, is how many girls my daughter's age are queer or gender nonconforming or trans. I get sexuality is a spectrum, and gender is a spectrum, and both can be fluid, and THANK GOD that we live in a community where many teens can be comfortable in expressing and exploring these things, which is not the case for when and where I grew up.

But when I look around at all the parents of girls I know, and all the girls in my daughter's middle school, it feels like there are so many more girls than ever who are not cisgender. Maybe more than 50%?

Are there studies or research that is taking a look at the changes? Are we all that fluid and it's just been repressed in us old-timers (I'm GenX)? Or, are girls nowadays just rejecting all labels and keeping their options open for any potentiality that may come along as they navigate their lives?

This is a totally serious question.

It’s become a trend. It to shall pass. Just beware of the pressure to do physical changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's also be crystal clear about the difference between being concerned that your non-trans (according to the parent) kid identifies as trans and being concerned that your non-gay (according to the parent) kid identifies as gay.

They're being conflated, because the same people think both are icky. They're actually really different. One describes a medical condition that is treated with various interventions. The other simply describes an orientation. A mistaken trans identity could, under some circumstances, lead to unnecessary or damaging medical interventions. A mistaken gay identity could lead to... gay relationships and/or gay sex.

The first is legitimate cause for concern, because unnecessary medical treatment can be harmful. The second is only cause for concern if you think there's something wrong with being gay. I can emphasize with parents concerned about 1) but pearl-clutching about 2) is both pointless and futile. It's a rare person who hasn't had some form of sex or relationship that later turned out to be yeah, not my cup of tea. If your kids experiment with gay sex or gay relationships, and they're not actually gay, their straightness will swiftly reveal itself. And I promise you, they'll survive just fine.

The problem is, outside of a liberal bubble, those two things will be conflated. Iran and Thailand are both countries where gay men typically transition. That's more socially acceptable. It would be ignorant to think the same wouldn't happen in some parts of the Bible Belt.

Frontline did a documentary about ten years ago that found just that, actually. A bunch of conservative families embracing their *new* daughters and sons.

While being trans has nothing inherently to do with gender preference, it is childishly naive to think that isn't a factor in some transitions. Another reason, some think, why children shouldn't medically transition.

The fact that they will be conflated by those who think both are icky is no reason for people to be unclear about the distinction in this discussion. Posters who moan that their child is being led astray by peer pressure should be explicit about what they are afraid of. The fear of unnecessary and damaging medical intervention is valid. The fear of your “straight” child engaging in gay relationships is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's also be crystal clear about the difference between being concerned that your non-trans (according to the parent) kid identifies as trans and being concerned that your non-gay (according to the parent) kid identifies as gay.

They're being conflated, because the same people think both are icky. They're actually really different. One describes a medical condition that is treated with various interventions. The other simply describes an orientation. A mistaken trans identity could, under some circumstances, lead to unnecessary or damaging medical interventions. A mistaken gay identity could lead to... gay relationships and/or gay sex.

The first is legitimate cause for concern, because unnecessary medical treatment can be harmful. The second is only cause for concern if you think there's something wrong with being gay. I can emphasize with parents concerned about 1) but pearl-clutching about 2) is both pointless and futile. It's a rare person who hasn't had some form of sex or relationship that later turned out to be yeah, not my cup of tea. If your kids experiment with gay sex or gay relationships, and they're not actually gay, their straightness will swiftly reveal itself. And I promise you, they'll survive just fine.

The problem is, outside of a liberal bubble, those two things will be conflated. Iran and Thailand are both countries where gay men typically transition. That's more socially acceptable. It would be ignorant to think the same wouldn't happen in some parts of the Bible Belt.

Frontline did a documentary about ten years ago that found just that, actually. A bunch of conservative families embracing their *new* daughters and sons.

While being trans has nothing inherently to do with gender preference, it is childishly naive to think that isn't a factor in some transitions. Another reason, some think, why children shouldn't medically transition.

Those kids belong in the second group. There is nothing wrong with being gay. They need to find a therapist that will help them accept their homosexuality instead of transitioning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does one be supportive when they are skeptical? I feel like my 18 yr old daughter is all about being gay right now. In fact, it's the only thing she is about. I can see her instagram and have seen a few random texts. She is constantly "liking" queer IG posts, and texting the pride flag in almost every text. Like almost it's a joke it is so much.

I know there is no one path for sexuality, but forgive me for doubting when the path is no questionig at all, then covid, and then endless tiktok. It's almost like "doth protest too much" only the opposite.

I am going through similar and spoke to a great therapist last week who works with transgender people individually and in groups. He’s a doctorate and heavily into research. This is what he told me: There are three current categories in which to place individuals who identify as transgender. The first group are true transgender, in which research shows is .5 to .8 of the population at most, and goes back into the earliest days of childhood. The second group are people who are having trouble accepting their homosexuality and thus identify as the opposite sex as a mental coping skill. Those who have gender surgery and other irreversible changes early in their teens/adulthood often results in tragic consequences. The third are not true transgender but identify as such due to self esteem issues, trends, other mental disorders, especially OCD. Those that are learning disabled, ADHD, and/or on the autism spectrum are especially vulnerable. He also said that a good therapist will try and unwrap what’s really going on, but there are a host of therapists, doctors, etc. looking to financially capitalize. A whole new category of people needing specialized treatment is a cash cow.

Bull crap.

Please link to any “research” that says this.

I’d like you to link research as well, but I don’t call Bull Crap. I think it sounds legit.

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity/

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/13/5-key-findings-about-lgbt-americans/

True transgenderism starts early:

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trans-children-sense-their-gender-identities-young-ages-study-suggests-n1107266

That’s a start anyway.

The pew research study is from 2017. Five years ago is an eternity, esp before Tiktok… .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's also be crystal clear about the difference between being concerned that your non-trans (according to the parent) kid identifies as trans and being concerned that your non-gay (according to the parent) kid identifies as gay.

They're being conflated, because the same people think both are icky. They're actually really different. One describes a medical condition that is treated with various interventions. The other simply describes an orientation. A mistaken trans identity could, under some circumstances, lead to unnecessary or damaging medical interventions. A mistaken gay identity could lead to... gay relationships and/or gay sex.

The first is legitimate cause for concern, because unnecessary medical treatment can be harmful. The second is only cause for concern if you think there's something wrong with being gay. I can emphasize with parents concerned about 1) but pearl-clutching about 2) is both pointless and futile. It's a rare person who hasn't had some form of sex or relationship that later turned out to be yeah, not my cup of tea. If your kids experiment with gay sex or gay relationships, and they're not actually gay, their straightness will swiftly reveal itself. And I promise you, they'll survive just fine.

The problem is, outside of a liberal bubble, those two things will be conflated. Iran and Thailand are both countries where gay men typically transition. That's more socially acceptable. It would be ignorant to think the same wouldn't happen in some parts of the Bible Belt.

Frontline did a documentary about ten years ago that found just that, actually. A bunch of conservative families embracing their *new* daughters and sons.

While being trans has nothing inherently to do with gender preference, it is childishly naive to think that isn't a factor in some transitions. Another reason, some think, why children shouldn't medically transition.

Those kids belong in the second group. There is nothing wrong with being gay. They need to find a therapist that will help them accept their homosexuality instead of transitioning.

Yes! Thankfully, therapists are very easy to find and there isn't any kind of doctrinal pressure put on any of them to never question a child who says they are trans...

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand how people think this is a “cash cow” to doctors. My trans kid’s doctor is a pediatrician who also works with trans and gender non conforming kids. There’s no big money in that. She sees my kid every few months and checks in and provides hormone prescriptions. Maybe you could argue this for surgeons, but they are not generally operating on minors.