Is there more gender and sexual fluidity now among teen girls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

I think you say something kind and neutral, like “Thank you for sharing. How do you want to be addressed?”

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a culture where being a boy or a girl only had to do with whether you needed a prostate exam or your cervix checked, instead of all this nebulous "feeling like?"

There. Is. No. Such. Thing.

Oh for heaven’s sake. It does nobody any harm to respond neutrally to a teenager experimenting with identity. Goodness. Weren’t you ever a teen?

Yes. I wore my grandfather's trench coat, boxer shorts, and my dad's shirts. Sometimes I wore his toes. My hair was cut flock of seagulls style and I idolized David Bowie.

Not one jot of that had anything to do with my gender, or how I *felt.*

Ties, not toes.

The weird thing is, you keep trying to act like we're all the socially regressive ones.

NP here. As somebody who grew up in the 70’s and 80’s, this does seem socially regressive to me. I grew up in a time where it was progressive to break down stereotypes. A woman didn’t have to be feminine and a man didn’t have to be macho. Parents were encouraging their daughters to play with trucks and their boys to play with dolls. Career women and house husbands become more accepted. My 9th grade English teacher used each and every grammar example to counter stereotypes: Sally plays football. Jim bakes a cake. The whole point was that regardless of gender, the individual could be whoever they wanted. A woman could do whatever she wanted and still be a woman. A man could do whatever he wanted and still be a man. Society may not have been fully there, but that was the goal. Now we seem to be saying that if you don’t fit a traditional feminine stereotype you’re not really a woman and if you don’t fit a traditional male stereotype that you’re not really a man. This doesn’t seem like progress.

[Anonymous]

And who cares? I certainly don’t care if a teen wants to experiment with gender identities. That’s what being a teen is all about. Now, I have significant concerns with medicalizing this and turning exploring teens into lifelong medical patients, but that’s not the majority of what is going on here. So a teen wants to present as “autigender” or whatever. It literally does not matter. Let them explore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

I think you say something kind and neutral, like “Thank you for sharing. How do you want to be addressed?”

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a culture where being a boy or a girl only had to do with whether you needed a prostate exam or your cervix checked, instead of all this nebulous "feeling like?"

There. Is. No. Such. Thing.

Oh for heaven’s sake. It does nobody any harm to respond neutrally to a teenager experimenting with identity. Goodness. Weren’t you ever a teen?

Yes. I wore my grandfather's trench coat, boxer shorts, and my dad's shirts. Sometimes I wore his toes. My hair was cut flock of seagulls style and I idolized David Bowie.

Not one jot of that had anything to do with my gender, or how I *felt.*

Ties, not toes.

The weird thing is, you keep trying to act like we're all the socially regressive ones.

NP here. As somebody who grew up in the 70’s and 80’s, this does seem socially regressive to me. I grew up in a time where it was progressive to break down stereotypes. A woman didn’t have to be feminine and a man didn’t have to be macho. Parents were encouraging their daughters to play with trucks and their boys to play with dolls. Career women and house husbands become more accepted. My 9th grade English teacher used each and every grammar example to counter stereotypes: Sally plays football. Jim bakes a cake. The whole point was that regardless of gender, the individual could be whoever they wanted. A woman could do whatever she wanted and still be a woman. A man could do whatever he wanted and still be a man. Society may not have been fully there, but that was the goal. Now we seem to be saying that if you don’t fit a traditional feminine stereotype you’re not really a woman and if you don’t fit a traditional male stereotype that you’re not really a man. This doesn’t seem like progress.

Do you know any young people?

“Being a man” doesn’t mean the same thing it did even 10 years ago, let alone 50.

We are in a much better place overall wrt gender, sexuality, family roles, etc.

Get out a little. You might see this for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

My autistic daughter has rigid ideas of how things should be. She likes things defined. She likes them to stay in their lanes. Because of this, she sees femininity as something extremely specific, and also something she is not. I completely understand where she's coming from, and I will reiterate again that this is NOT a criticism of trans people, or trans kids. But trans kids are actually quite rare.

Something I don't think is getting enough attention: this is all medical experiment. Never in the history of time have we been able to suspend puberty and then reset it to the opposing gender. Never. That's a very very different thing than an adult transition. The closest comparisons conjure up some not very pleasant and not very consensual practices across several cultures. We don't give lupron to women with edemitriosis anymore. It is given to rapists. Why would want to give it to your ten year old?

My teen is very high functioning ASD and trans. There is a big overlap between the communities but that doesn’t mean that an autistic kid is confused about being trans because they are on the spectrum. It’s just as likely there’s some biological component that hasn’t been found yet. There is a doctor in DC doing studies on it now.

My kid is completely the opposite and understands that gender presentation and identify aren’t the same things and still has major dysphoria. It seems to have little to do with presentation, as we never forced any particular presentation, and it is entirely about the body not matching up to what the mind’s eye feels it should be.

[Anonymous]

Totally agree PP. My trans son does not think he has to present as traditionally male to be male at all. In fact, he still presents in terms of clothes and activities as pretty feminine (i.e., he will wear a pink t shirt on a regular basis, etc.) and is into some traditionally girly things and is not macho. However, he had major dysphoria that has been relieved by medical transition and he is a happy college student now living as a male. In no way was his transition related to thinking that girls have to be girly or something like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

I think you say something kind and neutral, like “Thank you for sharing. How do you want to be addressed?”

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a culture where being a boy or a girl only had to do with whether you needed a prostate exam or your cervix checked, instead of all this nebulous "feeling like?"

There. Is. No. Such. Thing.

Oh for heaven’s sake. It does nobody any harm to respond neutrally to a teenager experimenting with identity. Goodness. Weren’t you ever a teen?

Yes. I wore my grandfather's trench coat, boxer shorts, and my dad's shirts. Sometimes I wore his toes. My hair was cut flock of seagulls style and I idolized David Bowie.

Not one jot of that had anything to do with my gender, or how I *felt.*

Ties, not toes.

The weird thing is, you keep trying to act like we're all the socially regressive ones.

NP here. As somebody who grew up in the 70’s and 80’s, this does seem socially regressive to me. I grew up in a time where it was progressive to break down stereotypes. A woman didn’t have to be feminine and a man didn’t have to be macho. Parents were encouraging their daughters to play with trucks and their boys to play with dolls. Career women and house husbands become more accepted. My 9th grade English teacher used each and every grammar example to counter stereotypes: Sally plays football. Jim bakes a cake. The whole point was that regardless of gender, the individual could be whoever they wanted. A woman could do whatever she wanted and still be a woman. A man could do whatever he wanted and still be a man. Society may not have been fully there, but that was the goal. Now we seem to be saying that if you don’t fit a traditional feminine stereotype you’re not really a woman and if you don’t fit a traditional male stereotype that you’re not really a man. This doesn’t seem like progress.

Do you know any young people?

“Being a man” doesn’t mean the same thing it did even 10 years ago, let alone 50.

We are in a much better place overall wrt gender, sexuality, family roles, etc.

Get out a little. You might see this for yourself.

It's because we've gotten "out" that we're saying these things.

I don't think we are in a better place with one exception: homosexuality is accepted, acknowledged, and celebrated, at least in liberal parts of the country.

On the other hand, a 13 year old getting a pixie cut now means they want to be a man.

On the other hand, women are still responsible for most domestic chores, they just do them on top of their full-time job they're still paid less to do.

On the other hand, teenaged girls are taught to be terrified of their sexuality, and taught that outward presentation means more than any personal happiness or satisfaction.

On the other hand, teenaged boys are shooting up schools because, in many many cases, they were teased for not conforming.

That's your better place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

I think you say something kind and neutral, like “Thank you for sharing. How do you want to be addressed?”

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a culture where being a boy or a girl only had to do with whether you needed a prostate exam or your cervix checked, instead of all this nebulous "feeling like?"

There. Is. No. Such. Thing.

Oh for heaven’s sake. It does nobody any harm to respond neutrally to a teenager experimenting with identity. Goodness. Weren’t you ever a teen?

Yes. I wore my grandfather's trench coat, boxer shorts, and my dad's shirts. Sometimes I wore his toes. My hair was cut flock of seagulls style and I idolized David Bowie.

Not one jot of that had anything to do with my gender, or how I *felt.*

Ties, not toes.

The weird thing is, you keep trying to act like we're all the socially regressive ones.

NP here. As somebody who grew up in the 70’s and 80’s, this does seem socially regressive to me. I grew up in a time where it was progressive to break down stereotypes. A woman didn’t have to be feminine and a man didn’t have to be macho. Parents were encouraging their daughters to play with trucks and their boys to play with dolls. Career women and house husbands become more accepted. My 9th grade English teacher used each and every grammar example to counter stereotypes: Sally plays football. Jim bakes a cake. The whole point was that regardless of gender, the individual could be whoever they wanted. A woman could do whatever she wanted and still be a woman. A man could do whatever he wanted and still be a man. Society may not have been fully there, but that was the goal. Now we seem to be saying that if you don’t fit a traditional feminine stereotype you’re not really a woman and if you don’t fit a traditional male stereotype that you’re not really a man. This doesn’t seem like progress.

Do you know any young people?

“Being a man” doesn’t mean the same thing it did even 10 years ago, let alone 50.

We are in a much better place overall wrt gender, sexuality, family roles, etc.

Get out a little. You might see this for yourself.

It's because we've gotten "out" that we're saying these things.

I don't think we are in a better place with one exception: homosexuality is accepted, acknowledged, and celebrated, at least in liberal parts of the country.

On the other hand, a 13 year old getting a pixie cut now means they want to be a man.

On the other hand, women are still responsible for most domestic chores, they just do them on top of their full-time job they're still paid less to do.

On the other hand, teenaged girls are taught to be terrified of their sexuality, and taught that outward presentation means more than any personal happiness or satisfaction.

On the other hand, teenaged boys are shooting up schools because, in many many cases, they were teased for not conforming.

That's your better place?

+1 Observing several of my 14 year old’s friends essentially lose touch with reality because of what they’re exposed to online and, no, this doesn’t feel like a better place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

I think you say something kind and neutral, like “Thank you for sharing. How do you want to be addressed?”

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a culture where being a boy or a girl only had to do with whether you needed a prostate exam or your cervix checked, instead of all this nebulous "feeling like?"

There. Is. No. Such. Thing.

Oh for heaven’s sake. It does nobody any harm to respond neutrally to a teenager experimenting with identity. Goodness. Weren’t you ever a teen?

Yes. I wore my grandfather's trench coat, boxer shorts, and my dad's shirts. Sometimes I wore his toes. My hair was cut flock of seagulls style and I idolized David Bowie.

Not one jot of that had anything to do with my gender, or how I *felt.*

Ties, not toes.

The weird thing is, you keep trying to act like we're all the socially regressive ones.

NP here. As somebody who grew up in the 70’s and 80’s, this does seem socially regressive to me. I grew up in a time where it was progressive to break down stereotypes. A woman didn’t have to be feminine and a man didn’t have to be macho. Parents were encouraging their daughters to play with trucks and their boys to play with dolls. Career women and house husbands become more accepted. My 9th grade English teacher used each and every grammar example to counter stereotypes: Sally plays football. Jim bakes a cake. The whole point was that regardless of gender, the individual could be whoever they wanted. A woman could do whatever she wanted and still be a woman. A man could do whatever he wanted and still be a man. Society may not have been fully there, but that was the goal. Now we seem to be saying that if you don’t fit a traditional feminine stereotype you’re not really a woman and if you don’t fit a traditional male stereotype that you’re not really a man. This doesn’t seem like progress.

Do you know any young people?

“Being a man” doesn’t mean the same thing it did even 10 years ago, let alone 50.

We are in a much better place overall wrt gender, sexuality, family roles, etc.

Get out a little. You might see this for yourself.

It's because we've gotten "out" that we're saying these things.

I don't think we are in a better place with one exception: homosexuality is accepted, acknowledged, and celebrated, at least in liberal parts of the country.

On the other hand, a 13 year old getting a pixie cut now means they want to be a man.

On the other hand, women are still responsible for most domestic chores, they just do them on top of their full-time job they're still paid less to do.

On the other hand, teenaged girls are taught to be terrified of their sexuality, and taught that outward presentation means more than any personal happiness or satisfaction.

On the other hand, teenaged boys are shooting up schools because, in many many cases, they were teased for not conforming.

That's your better place?

I honestly don't know where you're getting the bolded. I don't see anyone telling a short-haired 13 year old that she must want to be a man, I don't see anyone telling teen girls to be terrified of their own sexuality, and teenaged boys are shooting up schools because they have access to firearms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

I think you say something kind and neutral, like “Thank you for sharing. How do you want to be addressed?”

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a culture where being a boy or a girl only had to do with whether you needed a prostate exam or your cervix checked, instead of all this nebulous "feeling like?"

There. Is. No. Such. Thing.

Oh for heaven’s sake. It does nobody any harm to respond neutrally to a teenager experimenting with identity. Goodness. Weren’t you ever a teen?

Yes. I wore my grandfather's trench coat, boxer shorts, and my dad's shirts. Sometimes I wore his toes. My hair was cut flock of seagulls style and I idolized David Bowie.

Not one jot of that had anything to do with my gender, or how I *felt.*

Ties, not toes.

The weird thing is, you keep trying to act like we're all the socially regressive ones.

NP here. As somebody who grew up in the 70’s and 80’s, this does seem socially regressive to me. I grew up in a time where it was progressive to break down stereotypes. A woman didn’t have to be feminine and a man didn’t have to be macho. Parents were encouraging their daughters to play with trucks and their boys to play with dolls. Career women and house husbands become more accepted. My 9th grade English teacher used each and every grammar example to counter stereotypes: Sally plays football. Jim bakes a cake. The whole point was that regardless of gender, the individual could be whoever they wanted. A woman could do whatever she wanted and still be a woman. A man could do whatever he wanted and still be a man. Society may not have been fully there, but that was the goal. Now we seem to be saying that if you don’t fit a traditional feminine stereotype you’re not really a woman and if you don’t fit a traditional male stereotype that you’re not really a man. This doesn’t seem like progress.

Do you know any young people?

“Being a man” doesn’t mean the same thing it did even 10 years ago, let alone 50.

We are in a much better place overall wrt gender, sexuality, family roles, etc.

Get out a little. You might see this for yourself.

It's because we've gotten "out" that we're saying these things.

I don't think we are in a better place with one exception: homosexuality is accepted, acknowledged, and celebrated, at least in liberal parts of the country.

On the other hand, a 13 year old getting a pixie cut now means they want to be a man.

On the other hand, women are still responsible for most domestic chores, they just do them on top of their full-time job they're still paid less to do.

On the other hand, teenaged girls are taught to be terrified of their sexuality, and taught that outward presentation means more than any personal happiness or satisfaction.

On the other hand, teenaged boys are shooting up schools because, in many many cases, they were teased for not conforming.

That's your better place?

I honestly don't know where you're getting the bolded. I don't see anyone telling a short-haired 13 year old that she must want to be a man, I don't see anyone telling teen girls to be terrified of their own sexuality, and teenaged boys are shooting up schools because they have access to firearms.

+1

PP is full of it.

And many men - at least those in liberal circles - take on a lot of domestic chores. Does PP even know any liberal men?