Is there more gender and sexual fluidity now among teen girls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does one be supportive when they are skeptical? I feel like my 18 yr old daughter is all about being gay right now. In fact, it's the only thing she is about. I can see her instagram and have seen a few random texts. She is constantly "liking" queer IG posts, and texting the pride flag in almost every text. Like almost it's a joke it is so much.

I know there is no one path for sexuality, but forgive me for doubting when the path is no questionig at all, then covid, and then endless tiktok. It's almost like "doth protest too much" only the opposite.

I am going through similar and spoke to a great therapist last week who works with transgender people individually and in groups. He’s a doctorate and heavily into research. This is what he told me: There are three current categories in which to place individuals who identify as transgender. The first group are true transgender, in which research shows is .5 to .8 of the population at most, and goes back into the earliest days of childhood. The second group are people who are having trouble accepting their homosexuality and thus identify as the opposite sex as a mental coping skill. Those who have gender surgery and other irreversible changes early in their teens/adulthood often results in tragic consequences. The third are not true transgender but identify as such due to self esteem issues, trends, other mental disorders, especially OCD. Those that are learning disabled, ADHD, and/or on the autism spectrum are especially vulnerable. He also said that a good therapist will try and unwrap what’s really going on, but there are a host of therapists, doctors, etc. looking to financially capitalize. A whole new category of people needing specialized treatment is a cash cow.

Bull crap.

Please link to any “research” that says this.

I’d like you to link research as well, but I don’t call Bull Crap. I think it sounds legit.

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity/

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/13/5-key-findings-about-lgbt-americans/

True transgenderism starts early:

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trans-children-sense-their-gender-identities-young-ages-study-suggests-n1107266

That’s a start anyway.

These links support what the therapist said. In other words, your links show what the therapist said is not bull crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does one be supportive when they are skeptical? I feel like my 18 yr old daughter is all about being gay right now. In fact, it's the only thing she is about. I can see her instagram and have seen a few random texts. She is constantly "liking" queer IG posts, and texting the pride flag in almost every text. Like almost it's a joke it is so much.

I know there is no one path for sexuality, but forgive me for doubting when the path is no questionig at all, then covid, and then endless tiktok. It's almost like "doth protest too much" only the opposite.

I am going through similar and spoke to a great therapist last week who works with transgender people individually and in groups. He’s a doctorate and heavily into research. This is what he told me: There are three current categories in which to place individuals who identify as transgender. The first group are true transgender, in which research shows is .5 to .8 of the population at most, and goes back into the earliest days of childhood. The second group are people who are having trouble accepting their homosexuality and thus identify as the opposite sex as a mental coping skill. Those who have gender surgery and other irreversible changes early in their teens/adulthood often results in tragic consequences. The third are not true transgender but identify as such due to self esteem issues, trends, other mental disorders, especially OCD. Those that are learning disabled, ADHD, and/or on the autism spectrum are especially vulnerable. He also said that a good therapist will try and unwrap what’s really going on, but there are a host of therapists, doctors, etc. looking to financially capitalize. A whole new category of people needing specialized treatment is a cash cow.

So much this. We need to pin this post about the three different categories so we can all refer back to it while having conversations. The majority of kids identifying as trans today actually belong to that third category. What is super not helpful, is when people talk about kids in category 3 but with "solutions" that are only appropriate for category 1.

FWIW, I know a ton of gender fluid and nonbinary and trans teens, and only ONE is receiving any sort of treatment beyond talk therapy. That kid clearly belongs in Category 1 and has since early early childhood, and is under the care of a team of professionals that include both mental and physical health specialists.

The rest, to the degree that they are being "treated," are being treated for regular teen stuff. Anxiety, depression, general family discord, etc. In talking to the kids and their parents, it's also clear that they are getting help for those things, which is exactly what we would want. If you can treat the depression and the gender struggles get better, that's a good outcome for everyone because that's fewer struggles.

Basically, I think it's time we treat this the way we do abortion. This is a matter for a person to tackle together with their healthcare provider and without a bunch of sensationalized stories about something a friend's friend's cousin heard on the radio about an epidemic of radical hysterectomies in teens.

I agree for the most part. The problem is the enormous number of doctors and therapists operating both online and in office who see this as a cash cow. Add to this, school systems aiding the dysphoria which is NOT their job. Protecting the child while there? Yes. Punishing bullying, yes. Magic closets? No.

Serious question: Do you know any doctor or therapist who is looking for clients? In particular, any therapist you can even get in with for a first appointment this month, or the next?

Nobody is giving negligent care to get a "cash cow." They have too much regular work to even keep up with. The cash cow -- if there is any -- is just the standard care they give, non-controversially and as well-established treatment, that doesn't call their professionalism or license into question.

I think there are people out there who fantasize about some sort of terrible cynical person trying to cash in. Nobody needs to try to cash in! They are turning away work, because they can't even keep up with what they have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does one be supportive when they are skeptical? I feel like my 18 yr old daughter is all about being gay right now. In fact, it's the only thing she is about. I can see her instagram and have seen a few random texts. She is constantly "liking" queer IG posts, and texting the pride flag in almost every text. Like almost it's a joke it is so much.

I know there is no one path for sexuality, but forgive me for doubting when the path is no questionig at all, then covid, and then endless tiktok. It's almost like "doth protest too much" only the opposite.

I am going through similar and spoke to a great therapist last week who works with transgender people individually and in groups. He’s a doctorate and heavily into research. This is what he told me: There are three current categories in which to place individuals who identify as transgender. The first group are true transgender, in which research shows is .5 to .8 of the population at most, and goes back into the earliest days of childhood. The second group are people who are having trouble accepting their homosexuality and thus identify as the opposite sex as a mental coping skill. Those who have gender surgery and other irreversible changes early in their teens/adulthood often results in tragic consequences. The third are not true transgender but identify as such due to self esteem issues, trends, other mental disorders, especially OCD. Those that are learning disabled, ADHD, and/or on the autism spectrum are especially vulnerable. He also said that a good therapist will try and unwrap what’s really going on, but there are a host of therapists, doctors, etc. looking to financially capitalize. A whole new category of people needing specialized treatment is a cash cow.

So much this. We need to pin this post about the three different categories so we can all refer back to it while having conversations. The majority of kids identifying as trans today actually belong to that third category. What is super not helpful, is when people talk about kids in category 3 but with "solutions" that are only appropriate for category 1.

FWIW, I know a ton of gender fluid and nonbinary and trans teens, and only ONE is receiving any sort of treatment beyond talk therapy. That kid clearly belongs in Category 1 and has since early early childhood, and is under the care of a team of professionals that include both mental and physical health specialists.

The rest, to the degree that they are being "treated," are being treated for regular teen stuff. Anxiety, depression, general family discord, etc. In talking to the kids and their parents, it's also clear that they are getting help for those things, which is exactly what we would want. If you can treat the depression and the gender struggles get better, that's a good outcome for everyone because that's fewer struggles.

Basically, I think it's time we treat this the way we do abortion. This is a matter for a person to tackle together with their healthcare provider and without a bunch of sensationalized stories about something a friend's friend's cousin heard on the radio about an epidemic of radical hysterectomies in teens.

I agree for the most part. The problem is the enormous number of doctors and therapists operating both online and in office who see this as a cash cow. Add to this, school systems aiding the dysphoria which is NOT their job. Protecting the child while there? Yes. Punishing bullying, yes. Magic closets? No.

Serious question: Do you know any doctor or therapist who is looking for clients? In particular, any therapist you can even get in with for a first appointment this month, or the next?

Nobody is giving negligent care to get a "cash cow." They have too much regular work to even keep up with. The cash cow -- if there is any -- is just the standard care they give, non-controversially and as well-established treatment, that doesn't call their professionalism or license into question.

I think there are people out there who fantasize about some sort of terrible cynical person trying to cash in. Nobody needs to try to cash in! They are turning away work, because they can't even keep up with what they have.

There’s VC money moving into “gender-affirming” care. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/plume-raises-14m-to-scale-first-transgender-health-tech-company-301219833.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how does one be supportive when they are skeptical? I feel like my 18 yr old daughter is all about being gay right now. In fact, it's the only thing she is about. I can see her instagram and have seen a few random texts. She is constantly "liking" queer IG posts, and texting the pride flag in almost every text. Like almost it's a joke it is so much.

I know there is no one path for sexuality, but forgive me for doubting when the path is no questionig at all, then covid, and then endless tiktok. It's almost like "doth protest too much" only the opposite.

I am going through similar and spoke to a great therapist last week who works with transgender people individually and in groups. He’s a doctorate and heavily into research. This is what he told me: There are three current categories in which to place individuals who identify as transgender. The first group are true transgender, in which research shows is .5 to .8 of the population at most, and goes back into the earliest days of childhood. The second group are people who are having trouble accepting their homosexuality and thus identify as the opposite sex as a mental coping skill. Those who have gender surgery and other irreversible changes early in their teens/adulthood often results in tragic consequences. The third are not true transgender but identify as such due to self esteem issues, trends, other mental disorders, especially OCD. Those that are learning disabled, ADHD, and/or on the autism spectrum are especially vulnerable. He also said that a good therapist will try and unwrap what’s really going on, but there are a host of therapists, doctors, etc. looking to financially capitalize. A whole new category of people needing specialized treatment is a cash cow.

So much this. We need to pin this post about the three different categories so we can all refer back to it while having conversations. The majority of kids identifying as trans today actually belong to that third category. What is super not helpful, is when people talk about kids in category 3 but with "solutions" that are only appropriate for category 1.

FWIW, I know a ton of gender fluid and nonbinary and trans teens, and only ONE is receiving any sort of treatment beyond talk therapy. That kid clearly belongs in Category 1 and has since early early childhood, and is under the care of a team of professionals that include both mental and physical health specialists.

The rest, to the degree that they are being "treated," are being treated for regular teen stuff. Anxiety, depression, general family discord, etc. In talking to the kids and their parents, it's also clear that they are getting help for those things, which is exactly what we would want. If you can treat the depression and the gender struggles get better, that's a good outcome for everyone because that's fewer struggles.

Basically, I think it's time we treat this the way we do abortion. This is a matter for a person to tackle together with their healthcare provider and without a bunch of sensationalized stories about something a friend's friend's cousin heard on the radio about an epidemic of radical hysterectomies in teens.

I agree for the most part. The problem is the enormous number of doctors and therapists operating both online and in office who see this as a cash cow. Add to this, school systems aiding the dysphoria which is NOT their job. Protecting the child while there? Yes. Punishing bullying, yes. Magic closets? No.

Serious question: Do you know any doctor or therapist who is looking for clients? In particular, any therapist you can even get in with for a first appointment this month, or the next?

Nobody is giving negligent care to get a "cash cow." They have too much regular work to even keep up with. The cash cow -- if there is any -- is just the standard care they give, non-controversially and as well-established treatment, that doesn't call their professionalism or license into question.

I think there are people out there who fantasize about some sort of terrible cynical person trying to cash in. Nobody needs to try to cash in! They are turning away work, because they can't even keep up with what they have.

There's no oversight. Zero. None. Nada. That's the issue so many of us have. The only "standard" of care that exists is to not question giving medical care. By which I mean drugs. Yes, some doctors are undoubtedly more cautions than others.

[Anonymous]

Any time you have pay-for-services medical clinics popping up quickly across the country, you know someone is making a lot of money. The number of gender clinics across the country has skyrocketed.

The last time this happened was with “pain management” clinics and we all know how that turned out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any time you have pay-for-services medical clinics popping up quickly across the country, you know someone is making a lot of money. The number of gender clinics across the country has skyrocketed.

The last time this happened was with “pain management” clinics and we all know how that turned out.

Agree, because once people have careers in this area.. they need patients to support it.

[Anonymous]

Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

My autistic daughter has rigid ideas of how things should be. She likes things defined. She likes them to stay in their lanes. Because of this, she sees femininity as something extremely specific, and also something she is not. I completely understand where she's coming from, and I will reiterate again that this is NOT a criticism of trans people, or trans kids. But trans kids are actually quite rare.

Something I don't think is getting enough attention: this is all medical experiment. Never in the history of time have we been able to suspend puberty and then reset it to the opposing gender. Never. That's a very very different thing than an adult transition. The closest comparisons conjure up some not very pleasant and not very consensual practices across several cultures. We don't give lupron to women with edemitriosis anymore. It is given to rapists. Why would want to give it to your ten year old?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any time you have pay-for-services medical clinics popping up quickly across the country, you know someone is making a lot of money. The number of gender clinics across the country has skyrocketed.

The last time this happened was with “pain management” clinics and we all know how that turned out.

Agree, because once people have careers in this area.. they need patients to support it.

I don’t even think it has to be something nefarious. You can have a physician with a specialty in pediatric endocrinology who sees teens in pain, and when you have a hammer, everything is a nail. And suddenly there are a multitude of gender clinics where none existed before, with a whole host of kids who now become permanent medical patients, all funding those clinics, some of it private pay. Like the pain management clinics, a lot of this starts from genuinely good intentions. But there is also a lot of money, and that eventually gets mixed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

I think you say something kind and neutral, like “Thank you for sharing. How do you want to be addressed?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

I think you say something kind and neutral, like “Thank you for sharing. How do you want to be addressed?”

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a culture where being a boy or a girl only had to do with whether you needed a prostate exam or your cervix checked, instead of all this nebulous "feeling like?"

There. Is. No. Such. Thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

I think you say something kind and neutral, like “Thank you for sharing. How do you want to be addressed?”

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a culture where being a boy or a girl only had to do with whether you needed a prostate exam or your cervix checked, instead of all this nebulous "feeling like?"

There. Is. No. Such. Thing.

Oh for heaven’s sake. It does nobody any harm to respond neutrally to a teenager experimenting with identity. Goodness. Weren’t you ever a teen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

I think you say something kind and neutral, like “Thank you for sharing. How do you want to be addressed?”

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a culture where being a boy or a girl only had to do with whether you needed a prostate exam or your cervix checked, instead of all this nebulous "feeling like?"

There. Is. No. Such. Thing.

Oh for heaven’s sake. It does nobody any harm to respond neutrally to a teenager experimenting with identity. Goodness. Weren’t you ever a teen?

Yes. I wore my grandfather's trench coat, boxer shorts, and my dad's shirts. Sometimes I wore his toes. My hair was cut flock of seagulls style and I idolized David Bowie.

Not one jot of that had anything to do with my gender, or how I *felt.*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal parent of tween girls here. Yes. It is trendy and it is catching. Seems very common among autistic kids. Carry on.

I heard someone use the term “autigender” today —“ I don’t identify as a boy or girl, I’m autigender and it’s how my autism and gender work together”

I truly didn’t know how to react.

I think you say something kind and neutral, like “Thank you for sharing. How do you want to be addressed?”

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a culture where being a boy or a girl only had to do with whether you needed a prostate exam or your cervix checked, instead of all this nebulous "feeling like?"

There. Is. No. Such. Thing.

Oh for heaven’s sake. It does nobody any harm to respond neutrally to a teenager experimenting with identity. Goodness. Weren’t you ever a teen?

Yes. I wore my grandfather's trench coat, boxer shorts, and my dad's shirts. Sometimes I wore his toes. My hair was cut flock of seagulls style and I idolized David Bowie.

Not one jot of that had anything to do with my gender, or how I *felt.*

Ties, not toes.

The weird thing is, you keep trying to act like we're all the socially regressive ones.