BIL called DH’s Mom a B****

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whether a B or not or whether calling her a B or not, or who was right, wrong, justified, my breaking point would be both of them doing this in front of family and especially grandkids. No matter what the circumstances, this is not what I’d want in front of family and my children, nieces or nephews. To overlook it gives those kids the impression that it’s ok and permissible to let it happen to them in the future.

+1. I especially don’t want my daughters raised to think it’s ok for a man to call them that word without apology, no matter what the man’s excuses are.

I mean, sure, but I also don't want my daughters to think that it's okay to act like that word and expect everyone to just take it, either. Every lets MIL say rude and nasty things to everyone else -- isn't that teaching your kids that it's okay and permissible to let someone insult you all the time? The B-word isn't magic. It's not okay for someone to call them a b, but it's okay for someone to mock and insult them otherwise?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It may be that MIL is starting to lose her marbles. 80 is quite old. Even if she was always somewhat like this, if she's getting worse, that may be an early sign of dementia or even high blood pressure. Plus, older people don't handle stress well, and even simple things, like a family dinner, can be quite stressful for a person that old. Keep in mind that older people can be really, really good at hiding it when things start to go south. It can be very subtle.

So, my first concern would be for OP's husband and his sister to have a calm conversation about whether their mother is starting to lose it a bit. Maybe it's time to speak with her doctor.

Then, as I would tell our grandchildren, it's never ok to name call. BIL is an adult. He is capable of executive function control. He should not have exploded that way. It was wrong and he needs to hear that from OP's DH. That said, I don't think he should be held hostage to an apology either.

Rather, the concern should be for the future. Since MIL is only likely to get worse as she ages further, I think it is fair for OP's DH to sit down with his sister and BIL and express his concern about how MIL will be treated as she ages. It may help for the family to come together and come to a shared understanding about how to cope and help each other.

It might also be helpful to see if OP can find some culturally-relevant materials on how to help aging parents. The local center on aging or perhaps a local non-profit may be able to offer support.

Thank you for this calm and collected perspective. Yes, I will coach my husband to approach it this way. I think the conversation needs to shift to what we are going to do about it as opposed to who is at fault.

Except I don't think that DH needs to tell BIL anything. I'm sure that his wife has said something to him. But DH isn't his father and it would be presumptuous to chastise him. If MIL's behavior is new (it doesn't sound like it, it sounds like she's been this way for a while and they all indulge and enable her), then a discussion needs to happen about the possibility of mental decline. But honestly, if she's just a nasty person, then you have to figure out another way to deal with it besides "everyone just shuts up and swallows her insults." BIL lost his temper, but it sounds like it was a reaction to numerous comments and digs that none of you have any interest in addressing in any more constructive way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I married to a South Asian family and I’m so glad BIL let it out. He didn’t just do it for him, he did it for all of us. Thank you for your service and sacrifice brother.

Ha! I totally feel this as a child of a south Asian parent.

OP here.

This is hilarious and believe me, I am not a big MIL fan. I would also see humor if I didn’t have to deal with the fallout and have to make decisions on how to navigate the more complicated family dynamics.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Many of you suggested we deal with MIL differently. How so? How do you provide consequences to a grown woman? Remove access to our family completely? Refuse to visit her and FIL? Cut them out of our lives?

I married into the family 10 years ago and have tried my own strategies (talking to her directly and calmly when she does something offensive, ignoring her, getting upset with her - none of which have worked.) I’m convinced there are mental undiagnosed issues.

Genuinely curious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A couple of months ago, we were visiting DH’s sister’s house when my MIL made an insensitive comment and as a result, her husband got very upset and called my MIL a b**** in front of everyone (including grandchildren). DH harbors a lot of resentment towards him as a result of that incident. He cannot get over it. When it happened, we were all shocked as we come from a strict immigrant culture where parents are always respected.

DH is livid and wants to decline their invitation to have us come to their state to celebrate the holidays. Should I counsel him to look past his BIL’s behavior to keep the peace?

. Tell BIL he should have used a gender-neutral term like "sociopath" and you would have appreciate less sexist terminology going forward. That being said, MIL deserved it and it is time someone stood up to her and called her out and you are on his side. Tell DH to stop enabling MIL and to go spend the holidays together. Find out if DH loves his potential inheritance more than he ever loved his own sister.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whether a B or not or whether calling her a B or not, or who was right, wrong, justified, my breaking point would be both of them doing this in front of family and especially grandkids. No matter what the circumstances, this is not what I’d want in front of family and my children, nieces or nephews. To overlook it gives those kids the impression that it’s ok and permissible to let it happen to them in the future.

+1. I especially don’t want my daughters raised to think it’s ok for a man to call them that word without apology, no matter what the man’s excuses are.

I mean, sure, but I also don't want my daughters to think that it's okay to act like that word and expect everyone to just take it, either. Every lets MIL say rude and nasty things to everyone else -- isn't that teaching your kids that it's okay and permissible to let someone insult you all the time? The B-word isn't magic. It's not okay for someone to call them a b, but it's okay for someone to mock and insult them otherwise?

Adults, especially in the presence of children, have an obligation to model how to handle rudeness. BIL can refuse to “take it” by pointing out that MIL is being rude, calling out the behavior as unkind without name calling, by walking away. Calling someone a misogynistic term just isn’t ok. I don’t want my sons thinking they can drop that word in anger or my daughters thinking that they might deserve it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Many of you suggested we deal with MIL differently. How so? How do you provide consequences to a grown woman? Remove access to our family completely? Refuse to visit her and FIL? Cut them out of our lives?

I married into the family 10 years ago and have tried my own strategies (talking to her directly and calmly when she does something offensive, ignoring her, getting upset with her - none of which have worked.) I’m convinced there are mental undiagnosed issues.

Genuinely curious.

I mean, your husband is willing to remove access to his sister, and refuse to visit her, because her husband (also a grownup) said something that offended him. Why is it so unthinkable that you might suspend access to your MIL? Why is BIL's behavior so beyond the pale that you're ready to "provide consequences," but MIL's isn't?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Many of you suggested we deal with MIL differently. How so? How do you provide consequences to a grown woman? Remove access to our family completely? Refuse to visit her and FIL? Cut them out of our lives?

I married into the family 10 years ago and have tried my own strategies (talking to her directly and calmly when she does something offensive, ignoring her, getting upset with her - none of which have worked.) I’m convinced there are mental undiagnosed issues.

Genuinely curious.

If someone is putting you down or being rude to you, it’s totally ok to calmly say “That was very rude.” “I don’t appreciate being spoken to this way.” “If you are going to keep bringing this up, after I have already answered you, then we are simply going to need to leave.” And follow through. That isn’t being disrespectful to an older individual, it’s showing boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. My MIL can push a lot of buttons. I believe the resentment had been building up all weekend and the last comment she made might have sent him over the edge.

Still, to have him cal her such a derogatory word shocked the entire family. He definitely has anger issues.

SIL was surprised and embarrassed at the name calling but then backed up her husband and had a huge fight with her mom which lasted hours.

MIL has since apologized but BIL hasn’t.

SIL won’t bring it up with DH and DH won’t bring it up because he knows SIL will get defensive and bring up the resentment she harbors towards MIL.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

At any rate, literally none of this is your business. Your BIL's relationship with his mom--or lack thereof--is not your business. You also don't need to manage your husband's relationship with his brother. These are all grown-ass adults who don't need you to meddle or "fix" anything. Stay in your lane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Adults, especially in the presence of children, have an obligation to model how to handle rudeness. BIL can refuse to “take it” by pointing out that MIL is being rude, calling out the behavior as unkind without name calling, by walking away. Calling someone a misogynistic term just isn’t ok. I don’t want my sons thinking they can drop that word in anger or my daughters thinking that they might deserve it.

This would have been mature great advice had OP not already tried it MULTIPLE times!

Anonymous wrote: OP here. Many of you suggested we deal with MIL differently. How so? How do you provide consequences to a grown woman? Remove access to our family completely? Refuse to visit her and FIL? Cut them out of our lives?

I married into the family 10 years ago and have tried my own strategies (talking to her directly and calmly when she does something offensive, ignoring her, getting upset with her - none of which have worked.) I’m convinced there are mental undiagnosed issues.

Genuinely curious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What did the MIL say? Can't comment until we know what the MIL said.

Also, what culture is BIL from? Is he raised here? Is he the same immigrant culture as yours? FOB? 2nd Gen? What?

OP here. MIL told them that she didn’t like the way they had done their patio and that it didn’t look good as someone else’s. BIL is from the same culture (Pakistani.)

Wow this scene could have played out at my IL’s as well. My family is also Pakistani as well as DH’s. While she was being a B, it was also very wrong of him to lash out like that in front of everyone.

[Anonymous]

I’m the PP. Regardless of what your BIL said, you and your DH need to stay out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Adults, especially in the presence of children, have an obligation to model how to handle rudeness. BIL can refuse to “take it” by pointing out that MIL is being rude, calling out the behavior as unkind without name calling, by walking away. Calling someone a misogynistic term just isn’t ok. I don’t want my sons thinking they can drop that word in anger or my daughters thinking that they might deserve it.

This would have been mature great advice had OP not already tried it MULTIPLE times!

Anonymous wrote: OP here. Many of you suggested we deal with MIL differently. How so? How do you provide consequences to a grown woman? Remove access to our family completely? Refuse to visit her and FIL? Cut them out of our lives?

I married into the family 10 years ago and have tried my own strategies (talking to her directly and calmly when she does something offensive, ignoring her, getting upset with her - none of which have worked.) I’m convinced there are mental undiagnosed issues.

Genuinely curious.

What's "working" mean to you? It's possible that MIL isn't going to change her behavior, especially not for a DIL. That doesn't mean that everyone just has to grin and bear it. Spending less time with her is a perfectly rational and reasonable response. It's unpleasant to spend time with rude, critical people; so do less of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the PP. Regardless of what your BIL said, you and your DH need to stay out of it.

+1
Your BIL's relationship with his MIL is not your business. He and his wife can work that out themselves. The fact that your husband feels the need to ALSO punish BIL indicates some troublesome family dynamics. Everyone's rushing to protect the bully because one of her victims finally snapped (which is the point, isn't it? She needles and needles and needles, and then he loses his temper and now she's the victim and he's the bad guy). The easiest way to handle this would have been to say, "Hey, BIL, I know MIL is a pain and she was being really rude to you. I honestly don't blame you for snapping. But could you just not say that particular word in front of the kids?" And then let it go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Adults, especially in the presence of children, have an obligation to model how to handle rudeness. BIL can refuse to “take it” by pointing out that MIL is being rude, calling out the behavior as unkind without name calling, by walking away. Calling someone a misogynistic term just isn’t ok. I don’t want my sons thinking they can drop that word in anger or my daughters thinking that they might deserve it.

This would have been mature great advice had OP not already tried it MULTIPLE times!

Anonymous wrote: OP here. Many of you suggested we deal with MIL differently. How so? How do you provide consequences to a grown woman? Remove access to our family completely? Refuse to visit her and FIL? Cut them out of our lives?

I married into the family 10 years ago and have tried my own strategies (talking to her directly and calmly when she does something offensive, ignoring her, getting upset with her - none of which have worked.) I’m convinced there are mental undiagnosed issues.

Genuinely curious.

BIL didn’t leave after pointing out that MIL was being rude, he chose to use a curse word at his mother in front of the kids.