Help settle an argument: with 2 under 5, doing errands is a break

[Anonymous]

OP, if I were in your position — two kids who don’t sleep well, husband who wants things to be nice around the house and wants sex and wants sleep and doesn’t want anyone else in the house because of germs — here’s what I would say:

“Larlo, I just don’t have the bandwidth to do my job plus nursing in the night plus doing fifty percent of all the work to keep the house to the standard you want. I’m exhausted. I know you are, too. We need to change something, and I’m open to a lot of options about what that should be — maybe we should switch to formula, maybe we should see if we can move to a lower COL area or one of us can find a higher paying job so the other one can stay home, maybe we should relax standards about housekeeping or relax standards about covid, I don’t know. But the status quo isn’t working for me, and it doesn’t seem like it’s working for you either. We’re both burned out, and we need to make some changes. Can we tackle this together, you and me vs. the world?”

This might not work for you like it would for me because your husband sounds like he’s made this a you vs. him thing, but if you can’t try to solve your problems as a team I think your marriage is in serious trouble.

[Anonymous]

Do not quit your job!! You are like 80% or more likely to get divorced. Do not quit your job or move to where you have no support system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, if I were in your position — two kids who don’t sleep well, husband who wants things to be nice around the house and wants sex and wants sleep and doesn’t want anyone else in the house because of germs — here’s what I would say:

“Larlo, I just don’t have the bandwidth to do my job plus nursing in the night plus doing fifty percent of all the work to keep the house to the standard you want. I’m exhausted. I know you are, too. We need to change something, and I’m open to a lot of options about what that should be — maybe we should switch to formula, maybe we should see if we can move to a lower COL area or one of us can find a higher paying job so the other one can stay home, maybe we should relax standards about housekeeping or relax standards about covid, I don’t know. But the status quo isn’t working for me, and it doesn’t seem like it’s working for you either. We’re both burned out, and we need to make some changes. Can we tackle this together, you and me vs. the world?”

This might not work for you like it would for me because your husband sounds like he’s made this a you vs. him thing, but if you can’t try to solve your problems as a team I think your marriage is in serious trouble.

+100. This is a great post. I will say, relaxing about covid a bit has helped my household immensely. Daycare + (fully vaccinated) babysitters once or twice a week = lifesaver. I hated pandemic parenting with no help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, if I were in your position — two kids who don’t sleep well, husband who wants things to be nice around the house and wants sex and wants sleep and doesn’t want anyone else in the house because of germs — here’s what I would say:

“Larlo, I just don’t have the bandwidth to do my job plus nursing in the night plus doing fifty percent of all the work to keep the house to the standard you want. I’m exhausted. I know you are, too. We need to change something, and I’m open to a lot of options about what that should be — maybe we should switch to formula, maybe we should see if we can move to a lower COL area or one of us can find a higher paying job so the other one can stay home, maybe we should relax standards about housekeeping or relax standards about covid, I don’t know. But the status quo isn’t working for me, and it doesn’t seem like it’s working for you either. We’re both burned out, and we need to make some changes. Can we tackle this together, you and me vs. the world?”

This might not work for you like it would for me because your husband sounds like he’s made this a you vs. him thing, but if you can’t try to solve your problems as a team I think your marriage is in serious trouble.

Thank you. I wish I could approach this with him like a team. We’ve been together 15 years and unfortunately very slowly over many years the balance has just shifted to him controlling more and more household decisions. He will adamantly deny this, or say that it’s my fault because I’m indecisive or I cede decision making to him, but frequently when I do make decisions or take action he routinely criticizes me so I feel like I cannot. Like if I put Larlo in shorts for school (when he normally gets her dressed) he will say, why did you put Larla in shorts, it’s too cold for that, and go change her. Or if I make dinner and it’s not ready by 6:45 he starts complaining about how the kids are now going to go to bed late because dinner isn’t ready (but it’s totally ok for him to get dinner on the table after 7, or even 7:30). Or when we took Larla to a new pediatrician and I did all the work to get the appointment, research the doctor, get the medical records transferred (multiple calls to the original pediatrician, new pediatrician, and records company due to some issues) pack a bag with everything for the visit, nurse Larla before we go, etc. But then when we are in the car on the way there and get there it’s not clear where to park when we arrive he starts peppering me with questions - where are we supposed to park? Do they validate parking? How are we supposed to get from the parking garage to the building? And honestly, I hadn’t figured it out. I was just going to wing it. But he takes the opportunity to say, “when I do things like this, I handle it. I take care of all the details. And you don’t. And now you’re just handing me a problem.” (In this case, apparently the 3 minutes it took me to look on the website and Google maps the parking garage were unacceptable to him and me handing him a problem.). I sometimes wish people could watch this dynamic and I could get a gut check on who is the one being unreasonable because he makes me feel like I am responsible when my gut tells me he’s the one who is being overly controlling and particular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do not quit your job!! You are like 80% or more likely to get divorced. Do not quit your job or move to where you have no support system.

Thank you, I have a very good job and I will not be quitting as we need my income for our household expenses and mortgage.

[Anonymous]

Well this is definitely not about errands (which, yes, are a break).

Sorry, OP. Can you just stop meeting his standards and not engage when he goes into nitpicking mode (ie tell him you are leaving the dishes for tomorrow because you are tired and going to bed and not engage if he starts complaining)? Have you told him what is going on is hurting you and the marriage? Would you be open to using formula in addition to breastfeeding so he can help with feeding?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if I were in your position — two kids who don’t sleep well, husband who wants things to be nice around the house and wants sex and wants sleep and doesn’t want anyone else in the house because of germs — here’s what I would say:

“Larlo, I just don’t have the bandwidth to do my job plus nursing in the night plus doing fifty percent of all the work to keep the house to the standard you want. I’m exhausted. I know you are, too. We need to change something, and I’m open to a lot of options about what that should be — maybe we should switch to formula, maybe we should see if we can move to a lower COL area or one of us can find a higher paying job so the other one can stay home, maybe we should relax standards about housekeeping or relax standards about covid, I don’t know. But the status quo isn’t working for me, and it doesn’t seem like it’s working for you either. We’re both burned out, and we need to make some changes. Can we tackle this together, you and me vs. the world?”

This might not work for you like it would for me because your husband sounds like he’s made this a you vs. him thing, but if you can’t try to solve your problems as a team I think your marriage is in serious trouble.

Thank you. I wish I could approach this with him like a team. We’ve been together 15 years and unfortunately very slowly over many years the balance has just shifted to him controlling more and more household decisions. He will adamantly deny this, or say that it’s my fault because I’m indecisive or I cede decision making to him, but frequently when I do make decisions or take action he routinely criticizes me so I feel like I cannot. Like if I put Larlo in shorts for school (when he normally gets her dressed) he will say, why did you put Larla in shorts, it’s too cold for that, and go change her. Or if I make dinner and it’s not ready by 6:45 he starts complaining about how the kids are now going to go to bed late because dinner isn’t ready (but it’s totally ok for him to get dinner on the table after 7, or even 7:30). Or when we took Larla to a new pediatrician and I did all the work to get the appointment, research the doctor, get the medical records transferred (multiple calls to the original pediatrician, new pediatrician, and records company due to some issues) pack a bag with everything for the visit, nurse Larla before we go, etc. But then when we are in the car on the way there and get there it’s not clear where to park when we arrive he starts peppering me with questions - where are we supposed to park? Do they validate parking? How are we supposed to get from the parking garage to the building? And honestly, I hadn’t figured it out. I was just going to wing it. But he takes the opportunity to say, “when I do things like this, I handle it. I take care of all the details. And you don’t. And now you’re just handing me a problem.” (In this case, apparently the 3 minutes it took me to look on the website and Google maps the parking garage were unacceptable to him and me handing him a problem.). I sometimes wish people could watch this dynamic and I could get a gut check on who is the one being unreasonable because he makes me feel like I am responsible when my gut tells me he’s the one who is being overly controlling and particular.

What happens when you shut him down or tell him to stop whining?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren't your children sleeping through the night? I think this is your biggest problem. Not who "gets to go" to Target.

How old is each child? Mine was sleeping through the night at 3 months.

+1 mine too. This problem will not get better until the sleep deprivation gets better -- it's downright unhealthy! Sleep deprivation makes you see everyone standing between you + sleep as the enemy. It warps your mind.

Part of making life with kids easier is making the kids easier to handle as much as you can. I sleep-trained and put my child on a schedule and now, while watching her is not always easy -- tantrums etc -- it's predictable.

Back to this OP.

If I only got 5 or 6 hours of sleep every night, waking each hour, and then you b-tched at me if I was tired, I'd probably divorce you and let you have full custody so I COULD JUST SLEEP IN PEACE.

You are here complaining about Target and your husband's exhaustion and cleaning. It's like you don't care. Your home right now is a circus of insanity. Get your kids sleeping through the night! Give them big meals for dinner, bath, then put to bed in a quiet room with white noise. And rather than you and hubby clanking pans till 1am, you all go to bed too. You all have horrid sleep hygiene. I'm not at all being snarky. I'm the voice of reason. This is your #1 problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please help settle an argument. We have 2 under 5 (one born during the pandemic, pre vaccine) and the older is higher risk so we’ve been very cautious with a newborn and the older kid’s health. Husband always is the one doing the errands: gas, grocery store, car repairs, Lowe’s, Target, etc. I get irritated because I feel that him doing errands while I watch the kids is a break. Not like going to the gym or golfing, but a break in that you get to be alone, in a car, focusing on just yourself and the task at hand, and get to be away from the family and the kids. He adamantly disagrees. He also gets angry at me when I want a break when he returns from errands and I want a second off away from the kids. He also finds excuses for why he should be the one to do the errand - I’m too slow in the grocery store, I spend too much money, I’m nursing, etc. I feel this is BS and his way of maintaining his little carved out space for “him” time in a world where we have very little to none. What say you, DCUM?

Yes, it's a break. I don't hav ethe naswers, I've tried to keep things osrt of even but hands down I as the mom am always the fallback for a lot of things. It is frustrating and I haven't figured it all out yet.

[Anonymous]

Have you ever gently suggested to your husband that he get evaluated for anxiety? It seems like he is lashing out about little things when he is under pressure and you are the easiest target (the doctor parking lot incident for example). It’s deeply unfair for you. Maybe a small dose of Zoloft would help him. He could be a controlling jerk but he could also be someone like a lot of us who has been under tremendous stress during the pandemic and needs to recognize that he may need some help. I could be completely wrong but maybe worth a doctor considering this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if I were in your position — two kids who don’t sleep well, husband who wants things to be nice around the house and wants sex and wants sleep and doesn’t want anyone else in the house because of germs — here’s what I would say:

“Larlo, I just don’t have the bandwidth to do my job plus nursing in the night plus doing fifty percent of all the work to keep the house to the standard you want. I’m exhausted. I know you are, too. We need to change something, and I’m open to a lot of options about what that should be — maybe we should switch to formula, maybe we should see if we can move to a lower COL area or one of us can find a higher paying job so the other one can stay home, maybe we should relax standards about housekeeping or relax standards about covid, I don’t know. But the status quo isn’t working for me, and it doesn’t seem like it’s working for you either. We’re both burned out, and we need to make some changes. Can we tackle this together, you and me vs. the world?”

This might not work for you like it would for me because your husband sounds like he’s made this a you vs. him thing, but if you can’t try to solve your problems as a team I think your marriage is in serious trouble.

Thank you. I wish I could approach this with him like a team. We’ve been together 15 years and unfortunately very slowly over many years the balance has just shifted to him controlling more and more household decisions. He will adamantly deny this, or say that it’s my fault because I’m indecisive or I cede decision making to him, but frequently when I do make decisions or take action he routinely criticizes me so I feel like I cannot. Like if I put Larlo in shorts for school (when he normally gets her dressed) he will say, why did you put Larla in shorts, it’s too cold for that, and go change her. Or if I make dinner and it’s not ready by 6:45 he starts complaining about how the kids are now going to go to bed late because dinner isn’t ready (but it’s totally ok for him to get dinner on the table after 7, or even 7:30). Or when we took Larla to a new pediatrician and I did all the work to get the appointment, research the doctor, get the medical records transferred (multiple calls to the original pediatrician, new pediatrician, and records company due to some issues) pack a bag with everything for the visit, nurse Larla before we go, etc. But then when we are in the car on the way there and get there it’s not clear where to park when we arrive he starts peppering me with questions - where are we supposed to park? Do they validate parking? How are we supposed to get from the parking garage to the building? And honestly, I hadn’t figured it out. I was just going to wing it. But he takes the opportunity to say, “when I do things like this, I handle it. I take care of all the details. And you don’t. And now you’re just handing me a problem.” (In this case, apparently the 3 minutes it took me to look on the website and Google maps the parking garage were unacceptable to him and me handing him a problem.). I sometimes wish people could watch this dynamic and I could get a gut check on who is the one being unreasonable because he makes me feel like I am responsible when my gut tells me he’s the one who is being overly controlling and particular.

Sounds like your DH is very easily overwhelmed and inherently insecure.
I know parenting tends to bring out the worst of these types but did he always have this tendency?
I'm sorry for your situation but no one needs to watch you and your DH's dynamic to tell that he is being quite abusive. It's pretty typical- keep a good face outside the house and pick on the ones (usually female partners) that cannot retaliate.

[Anonymous]

We make the person doing the errands take the kids. My toddlers love Home Depot or grocery shopping. They stay quiet and it entertains them. At home they run us ragged

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if I were in your position — two kids who don’t sleep well, husband who wants things to be nice around the house and wants sex and wants sleep and doesn’t want anyone else in the house because of germs — here’s what I would say:

“Larlo, I just don’t have the bandwidth to do my job plus nursing in the night plus doing fifty percent of all the work to keep the house to the standard you want. I’m exhausted. I know you are, too. We need to change something, and I’m open to a lot of options about what that should be — maybe we should switch to formula, maybe we should see if we can move to a lower COL area or one of us can find a higher paying job so the other one can stay home, maybe we should relax standards about housekeeping or relax standards about covid, I don’t know. But the status quo isn’t working for me, and it doesn’t seem like it’s working for you either. We’re both burned out, and we need to make some changes. Can we tackle this together, you and me vs. the world?”

This might not work for you like it would for me because your husband sounds like he’s made this a you vs. him thing, but if you can’t try to solve your problems as a team I think your marriage is in serious trouble.

Thank you. I wish I could approach this with him like a team. We’ve been together 15 years and unfortunately very slowly over many years the balance has just shifted to him controlling more and more household decisions. He will adamantly deny this, or say that it’s my fault because I’m indecisive or I cede decision making to him, but frequently when I do make decisions or take action he routinely criticizes me so I feel like I cannot. Like if I put Larlo in shorts for school (when he normally gets her dressed) he will say, why did you put Larla in shorts, it’s too cold for that, and go change her. Or if I make dinner and it’s not ready by 6:45 he starts complaining about how the kids are now going to go to bed late because dinner isn’t ready (but it’s totally ok for him to get dinner on the table after 7, or even 7:30). Or when we took Larla to a new pediatrician and I did all the work to get the appointment, research the doctor, get the medical records transferred (multiple calls to the original pediatrician, new pediatrician, and records company due to some issues) pack a bag with everything for the visit, nurse Larla before we go, etc. But then when we are in the car on the way there and get there it’s not clear where to park when we arrive he starts peppering me with questions - where are we supposed to park? Do they validate parking? How are we supposed to get from the parking garage to the building? And honestly, I hadn’t figured it out. I was just going to wing it. But he takes the opportunity to say, “when I do things like this, I handle it. I take care of all the details. And you don’t. And now you’re just handing me a problem.” (In this case, apparently the 3 minutes it took me to look on the website and Google maps the parking garage were unacceptable to him and me handing him a problem.). I sometimes wish people could watch this dynamic and I could get a gut check on who is the one being unreasonable because he makes me feel like I am responsible when my gut tells me he’s the one who is being overly controlling and particular.

That sounds really hard. I agree with the other posters who say it sounds like he may be struggling with anxiety. I find that I am far more likely to get anxious when I’m sleep-deprived, and it’s been a 15+ year battle for me to learn to identify my anxious distorted thinking and deal with it myself instead of putting it on the people around me. DH can also get anxious, although he’s less prone to it than I am, and we’ve had to get good at calling each other on it gently. And also ourselves! I sometimes say “hey I’m really tired but the clutter in the kitchen is making me feel anxious and stressed, would you please help me clean it up for a few minutes?”

Again, this what I would say, it might not work for you, but in the parking lot example I’d say “hey Larlo, you’re not being very nice to me.” Or “that’s not a kind thing to say.” When we’re stressed and tired, as it sounds like you both are, it’s hard to never have nastiness creep into your tone. I try to operate on the assumption that DH doesn’t want to hurt my feelings, just as I know I don’t want to hurt his. So if I snarl “WHAT?” in response to what feels like one more dang interruption, he’ll go “wow that’s not a nice tone of voice” and I’ll go “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to snap, can it wait until I’m off the toilet?” Or more generally, one of us may say to the other “I understand you’re having a rough morning but you’re speaking very unkindly to me.” Sometimes DH will go “babe you’re a mess, go lie down for a little while, I’ve got the kids.” (Or I’ll say it to him.)

[Anonymous]

Just to add: I realize “that’s not a nice way to speak to me” sounds like how I talk to my kids, and I do say that to them sometimes when they’re frazzled/upset (as opposed to being intentionally rude or defiant). I see it as a kind reminder that I know you want to treat me well and sometimes you slip up. But others may find it infantilizing.

[Anonymous]

I’m going to disagree and say it’s not really a break. But DH and I agreed early on that we both deserve downtime and that running errands or getting a haircut or whatever doesn’t count. However, he also doesn’t hog all the errand running. And a lot of times, one of us will take a kid along to get them out of the house. Our 3 y/o wears a mask and sits in a shopping cart just fine so why not get him out of the house while grabbing groceries and taking the car through the wash? The other parent stays home and gets dinner started or some laundry done (our 6 y/o is old enough to entertain herself). And then we arrange time for each of us to get a real hour or two each weekend (obviously depends on what else is going on) to nap, read, etc. I’d be upset if I got home from errands and my DH told me he was handing off the kids so he could have a break — like when would my break be if all I do is errands and childcare?