Help settle an argument: with 2 under 5, doing errands is a break

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only you can figure out if your husband has a mental health issue, is a controlling jackass or both. But, if he refuses to change, you don’t have to out up with this. This sounds like emotional abuse, and it sounds like you are scared to stand up to him. This is no way to live.

If this is anxiety and he actually seeks help, there might be some hope here. But it sounds like this isn’t a guy that will seek help — and the problem may really just be who he is.

You need a plan on how to get out of this. Your kids don’t deserve to grow up in a home like this. And it will only get harder to leave, the longer you stay. This guy is going to beat you down emotionally.

This this this. This is not normal “two burned out pandemic parents” stuff OP. Sending you a big hug.

Thank you. The thing is, to most everyone except for maybe my mom and his mom and dad who have visited for long enough to see what an ass he can be, he appears to be such a great, engaged father. And the issue is not that he’s got anxiety or other mental health problems, it’s just that he’s gotten more and more controlling over the years, and his progressive, egalitarian perspective towards women and marriage I feel has basically shifted, imperceptibly at times, much more toward a traditional perspective of mom doing more the parenting and being the default parent. Except he doesn’t give me the benefit as the default parent of running things my way or getting my own routine going or making autonomous decisions, because it’s his routine I’m expected to follow, he wants me “on” whenever he decides he’s not up for parenting and decides to go out for errands or take on a household project, and then he over parents and is very passive aggressive to me the moment he returns and decides to dial back in (he will quiz me about if the kids had a snack and scold me if I didn’t give them one right at 4 pm, or say loudly stuff like “oh did mommy keep you in a wet diaper,” to the baby, or ask me how long the older kid has been watching TV and then lecture me about how we need to get kid 1 off the tv and outside to burn energy).

It’s so hard because he didn’t used to always be like this, truly. But over time he’s developed these insane standards of how everything should be done (eg dishwasher loaded a certain way, only the right amount and kinds of groceries can be bought, laundry has to be sorted and washed a particular way). He’s gotten mad at me for doing things like drying in the dryer a pair of his favorite Bird dog shorts that he likes to line dry, but which the label says can be put on the drier so I put them in the drier. When he discovered my mistake he was like, why are you trying to ruin my clothes? I don’t do this to you. Don’t ever wash my clothes again. It’s just these insane reactions and he will blame me for it saying I was defensive and I was careless and not paying attention to how I wash his clothes and he always is careful with my clothes so it’s my fault he gets mad. And he is always on my case about how I load dishes. He gets mad if I don’t prewash every dish, or load the way he likes (bowls have to be loaded back to front, at an angle, starting from the right side). When I counter by saying there’s many ways to do things and not just one right way, he insists that there is one right way to do something and I’m just being obstinate and oppositional.

His treatment of me over the years has just eroded to a point that these totally unacceptable behaviors that I would have never imagined he’d have 10 or 15 years ago, are commonplace. He’s not a physically violent or abusive, but when he gets angry he frequently loses his cool and yells and as a result I feel like the entire environment of the home is based on if he is in a good mood or not. But he’s so masterful at blaming me and making me feel like I’m the problem that he says it’s me and my moods are the problem, that I yell just as much as he does, that I’m the one who doesn’t treT him
Well and I never have sex with him, etc.. I feel I am being gaslighted regularly, and maybe even experiencing emotional abuse, but I don’t even know how to sort it out. Like, he will yell at me and our older kid, and then say it’s our fault he yells because we don’t listen to him unless yells. Stuff like that...

I feel very trapped and we cannot afford a divorce. As it is our budget is insanely tight.

You need to look into sociopaths. They are very good at manipulating the people around them into thinking they're wonderful. My friend is going through this with her husband. We were all SHOCKED to find out what he was like behind closed doors. He's a doctor, well-known in the community, appeared super engaged with his kids, etc. But he did so many of the same things your husband does to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only you can figure out if your husband has a mental health issue, is a controlling jackass or both. But, if he refuses to change, you don’t have to out up with this. This sounds like emotional abuse, and it sounds like you are scared to stand up to him. This is no way to live.

If this is anxiety and he actually seeks help, there might be some hope here. But it sounds like this isn’t a guy that will seek help — and the problem may really just be who he is.

You need a plan on how to get out of this. Your kids don’t deserve to grow up in a home like this. And it will only get harder to leave, the longer you stay. This guy is going to beat you down emotionally.

This this this. This is not normal “two burned out pandemic parents” stuff OP. Sending you a big hug.

Thank you. The thing is, to most everyone except for maybe my mom and his mom and dad who have visited for long enough to see what an ass he can be, he appears to be such a great, engaged father. And the issue is not that he’s got anxiety or other mental health problems, it’s just that he’s gotten more and more controlling over the years, and his progressive, egalitarian perspective towards women and marriage I feel has basically shifted, imperceptibly at times, much more toward a traditional perspective of mom doing more the parenting and being the default parent. Except he doesn’t give me the benefit as the default parent of running things my way or getting my own routine going or making autonomous decisions, because it’s his routine I’m expected to follow, he wants me “on” whenever he decides he’s not up for parenting and decides to go out for errands or take on a household project, and then he over parents and is very passive aggressive to me the moment he returns and decides to dial back in (he will quiz me about if the kids had a snack and scold me if I didn’t give them one right at 4 pm, or say loudly stuff like “oh did mommy keep you in a wet diaper,” to the baby, or ask me how long the older kid has been watching TV and then lecture me about how we need to get kid 1 off the tv and outside to burn energy).

It’s so hard because he didn’t used to always be like this, truly. But over time he’s developed these insane standards of how everything should be done (eg dishwasher loaded a certain way, only the right amount and kinds of groceries can be bought, laundry has to be sorted and washed a particular way). He’s gotten mad at me for doing things like drying in the dryer a pair of his favorite Bird dog shorts that he likes to line dry, but which the label says can be put on the drier so I put them in the drier. When he discovered my mistake he was like, why are you trying to ruin my clothes? I don’t do this to you. Don’t ever wash my clothes again. It’s just these insane reactions and he will blame me for it saying I was defensive and I was careless and not paying attention to how I wash his clothes and he always is careful with my clothes so it’s my fault he gets mad. And he is always on my case about how I load dishes. He gets mad if I don’t prewash every dish, or load the way he likes (bowls have to be loaded back to front, at an angle, starting from the right side). When I counter by saying there’s many ways to do things and not just one right way, he insists that there is one right way to do something and I’m just being obstinate and oppositional.

His treatment of me over the years has just eroded to a point that these totally unacceptable behaviors that I would have never imagined he’d have 10 or 15 years ago, are commonplace. He’s not a physically violent or abusive, but when he gets angry he frequently loses his cool and yells and as a result I feel like the entire environment of the home is based on if he is in a good mood or not. But he’s so masterful at blaming me and making me feel like I’m the problem that he says it’s me and my moods are the problem, that I yell just as much as he does, that I’m the one who doesn’t treT him
Well and I never have sex with him, etc.. I feel I am being gaslighted regularly, and maybe even experiencing emotional abuse, but I don’t even know how to sort it out. Like, he will yell at me and our older kid, and then say it’s our fault he yells because we don’t listen to him unless yells. Stuff like that...

I feel very trapped and we cannot afford a divorce. As it is our budget is insanely tight.

I think you need to truly consider how much it's worth to you to stay in the house you're in instead of being able to leave in peace and quiet with your two young kids in an apartment while you find your footing. I would give up all the stuff I have in my house right now and share a studio with my kids if it would get me away from what you're living with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. He dislikes being with both kids but won’t admit it. He will literally spend 4 hours doing yard work or house projects and then blow up at me when I get pissed off from watching the kids that whole time because he’s the one busting his butt and will say stuff like 0what, you think it’s fun to paint/weed/mow. I’m making your house nice for you!” Except he’s gotten a good sweat going, has been listening to music or podcasts, and has gotten to accomplish something while I’m just watching kids.

I did get ticked last week and went to the grocery store. He complained I was taking too long to check cupboards and meal plan before I went, then was texting me when I was there about why it was taking so long, then complained when I got home because I bought a second gallon of milk, and a second bag of chips of a kind we already had, and didn’t buy a second loaf of bread (I was trying to check but he rushed me out the door) and then was like, if you want to do the shoppping you have to keep track of all this stuff.

He’s gotten more controlling since having kids and then the pandemic and I’m so sick of it.

OP, this is neither here nor there, but why have a second child with this man? You are in a bit of a "you made the bed, you lay in it now" situation. Start saving money for counseling or divorce or what have you.
OF course running errands is a break from kids. My husband is terrible at grocery shopping even with a list, so I do all the groceries, but I recognize that it's a break for me and he is watching our three little kids. So I bring treats and give him a break when I come home. That's how a partnership woks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So it sounds like you two are night owls up until 1am, with kids not properly sleep trained AT ALL waking every hour of the night, so that you are so sleep deprived your husband is concerned about his heart, your husband does most of the cleaning, you have no sex life.

But your primary concern is who gets to go to Target?

Honey, you have bigger problems that need addressed. Primarily your awful sleep hygiene. Way way down in second place is your lack of sex in your marriage.

If you want to fix your marriage, listen to me, not all the people just yes-ing you. Target is a minor tertiary symptom of much bigger problems. Fix the sleep and sex, and you can save your marriage.

+100. I'm a woman but stereotypically sort of masculine, I joke that I'm the dad in my house. I am EVIL without sleep or regular "adult bonding."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's normal when kids are young (say, both under 5-6) to hate being the solo parent on duty. Every parent I know, including people who are really really into their kids, feels that way. I only have one but it's definitely a chore to be the parent on duty alone, although we try to make it fun (go to the playground, etc.).

OP I would just tell him you're doing an errand without asking if it's ok. "I'm going to the store, need anything?" Take charge. And this is a sign that neither of you is getting real breaks. Talk to your pediatrician about how "high risk" your older kid actually is and what that means -- i.e. would it be reasonable to get outside help once a week from someone vaccinated. If you have family in the area, or even out of state who'd be willing to visit and babysit, now's the time to call.

What on earth are you talking about? We have twins so we've always had two, but since day one there were times that one of us was alone with both of them. And that has just continued over the last eight years. You only have one kid and you find that it's hard to be with that one kid without your spouse? How do you function?

I function very well, but toddlers (in my case) are needy and kind of annoying sometimes! That's all I mean. I have her routine down pat now, but doesn't mean I am not irritable when I"m the solo parent. This is the case for all of my parent friends with kids who aren't potty-trained yet

[Anonymous]

I’m the PP who kept suggesting scripts I would use, but I take it back. Your husband is being a total ahole and you know it. It’s possible that if he realizes he could lose his marriage over it, he would shape up, but he probably won’t. You need to decide if you’re willing to live like this for the next 5-10-15 years, and if you’re not you need to take steps to change your life. If he won’t listen or go to counseling, get yourself to therapy and make plans for what a single life would look like. I know your budget is tight, but you can’t let your kids grow up like this. Especially if he’s turning it on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP you said your mom has seen how he acts. Can you confide in her? It will be really scary and hard at first but I really think you need to her out for your sake and for your kids.

I wish I could but I cannot. She’s the kind of person who would not be a neutral sounding board, would turn on my husband and never be willing to look past this if we’re able to work through it, and would gossip relentlessly about this with her partner and friends. It would also reinforce a narrative in her mind that I’m her screwed up child. She’s never really seen past the me in high school/college who struggled with depression and bulimia and my weight when she and my father were divorcing because she cheated on him and left him for her new partner. My siblings were “easier” during this time and got favored status, eg my younger sister got a laptop and new clothes to to college and my parents paid for her spring break trips but because I was in therapy (expensive) and taking medications (expensive) that cost my mom a lot out of pocket at the time I got none of the same treatment. Literally my college roommates and my sister used to give me their old clothes before they donated them to Goodwill that’s how bad it was. (And yes I worked at the time but I was spending most of my money on rent and food.) I have always been her “hard” kid and I’m not going to give her a new chance to reinforce a narrative as she will see it as me screwing up again, expecting her to solve my problem, or thinking I want her to give me money....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you have a child who is higher risk, why in the world are you going in person to do most of these errands? Groceries and Target can be delivered or if that is too pricey then do curbside. Stop exposing your kid like this. Order from home on the computer while the kids are running around.

Because he’s so controlling he doesn’t want a stranger touching his food, he insists they pick awful produce, and he says it’s too expensive because the prices are higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So it sounds like you two are night owls up until 1am, with kids not properly sleep trained AT ALL waking every hour of the night, so that you are so sleep deprived your husband is concerned about his heart, your husband does most of the cleaning, you have no sex life.

But your primary concern is who gets to go to Target?

Honey, you have bigger problems that need addressed. Primarily your awful sleep hygiene. Way way down in second place is your lack of sex in your marriage.

If you want to fix your marriage, listen to me, not all the people just yes-ing you. Target is a minor tertiary symptom of much bigger problems. Fix the sleep and sex, and you can save your marriage.

Ah yes the sleep train brigade ARRIVVVEEEDDDD. If you wonder what type of woman raises men who learn how to blame women look no further. Hes emotionally abusive towards you BECAUSE you didnt sleep train. Dont you know this is all YOUR fault. You havent sleep trained your kid and you are giving him what he needs. Once you do that EVERYTHING will be better. The poor man is so tired and youve made him this way.

*barf barf barf*

OP you are being gaslighted, abused, and demonized- in front of your children. They will learn from watching him that everything wrong is your fault. They got a B on a science project- its because you didnt get the right type of paper. They missed the bus- its because you didnt have the right clothes laid out for them. They didnt make the varisty swim team- its because you dont do X,Y, and Z like Larlo's mommy.

If you havent already, watch MAID on Netflix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it sounds like you two are night owls up until 1am, with kids not properly sleep trained AT ALL waking every hour of the night, so that you are so sleep deprived your husband is concerned about his heart, your husband does most of the cleaning, you have no sex life.

But your primary concern is who gets to go to Target?

Honey, you have bigger problems that need addressed. Primarily your awful sleep hygiene. Way way down in second place is your lack of sex in your marriage.

If you want to fix your marriage, listen to me, not all the people just yes-ing you. Target is a minor tertiary symptom of much bigger problems. Fix the sleep and sex, and you can save your marriage.

Ah yes the sleep train brigade ARRIVVVEEEDDDD. If you wonder what type of woman raises men who learn how to blame women look no further. Hes emotionally abusive towards you BECAUSE you didnt sleep train. Dont you know this is all YOUR fault. You havent sleep trained your kid and you are giving him what he needs. Once you do that EVERYTHING will be better. The poor man is so tired and youve made him this way.

*barf barf barf*

OP you are being gaslighted, abused, and demonized- in front of your children. They will learn from watching him that everything wrong is your fault. They got a B on a science project- its because you didnt get the right type of paper. They missed the bus- its because you didnt have the right clothes laid out for them. They didnt make the varisty swim team- its because you dont do X,Y, and Z like Larlo's mommy.

If you havent already, watch MAID on Netflix.

No one said SHE didn’t sleep train them. THEY haven’t sleep trained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it sounds like you two are night owls up until 1am, with kids not properly sleep trained AT ALL waking every hour of the night, so that you are so sleep deprived your husband is concerned about his heart, your husband does most of the cleaning, you have no sex life.

But your primary concern is who gets to go to Target?

Honey, you have bigger problems that need addressed. Primarily your awful sleep hygiene. Way way down in second place is your lack of sex in your marriage.

If you want to fix your marriage, listen to me, not all the people just yes-ing you. Target is a minor tertiary symptom of much bigger problems. Fix the sleep and sex, and you can save your marriage.

+100. I'm a woman but stereotypically sort of masculine, I joke that I'm the dad in my house. I am EVIL without sleep or regular "adult bonding."

I dunno, I'm not sure why somebody would want to fix a marriage with a partner who was basically a sociopath. But sleep would definitely make it more tolerable.

[Anonymous]

Going into this thread I was going to say that yes, absolutely errands are a break from kid duty. Men like to talk about how much work they do in the yard, but it is solo work, where they can listen to music and do everything at their own pace.
When my kids were toddlers, I really enjoyed going grocery shopping without them.
That said, your husband is a jerk. You really need to start setting boundaries. Don’t let him walk all over you. When he get to that you need to get home, calmly text back that he can expect you home at x time. Unless there is a medical emergency, there is no need to rush home.
When he makes comments like “aww, mommy left baby in wet diaper” calmly tell him that it is disrespectful to nit pick every action you do. And don’t get into a bickering fight. Say that, ignore what he says in return. Repeat that for every undercut and insult. But don’t get into an insult war with him, or make excuses back and forth. Take the high road.
I will say, you need to have a better sleep routine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it sounds like you two are night owls up until 1am, with kids not properly sleep trained AT ALL waking every hour of the night, so that you are so sleep deprived your husband is concerned about his heart, your husband does most of the cleaning, you have no sex life.

But your primary concern is who gets to go to Target?

Honey, you have bigger problems that need addressed. Primarily your awful sleep hygiene. Way way down in second place is your lack of sex in your marriage.

If you want to fix your marriage, listen to me, not all the people just yes-ing you. Target is a minor tertiary symptom of much bigger problems. Fix the sleep and sex, and you can save your marriage.

Ah yes the sleep train brigade ARRIVVVEEEDDDD. If you wonder what type of woman raises men who learn how to blame women look no further. Hes emotionally abusive towards you BECAUSE you didnt sleep train. Dont you know this is all YOUR fault. You havent sleep trained your kid and you are giving him what he needs. Once you do that EVERYTHING will be better. The poor man is so tired and youve made him this way.

*barf barf barf*

OP you are being gaslighted, abused, and demonized- in front of your children. They will learn from watching him that everything wrong is your fault. They got a B on a science project- its because you didnt get the right type of paper. They missed the bus- its because you didnt have the right clothes laid out for them. They didnt make the varisty swim team- its because you dont do X,Y, and Z like Larlo's mommy.

If you havent already, watch MAID on Netflix.

No one said SHE didn’t sleep train them. THEY haven’t sleep trained.

Unless the previous poster used YOU as a collective, which should be Y'all then the post was directed at her. Not "they".

[Anonymous]

When we had young twins, we would give each partner 2-3 hours once a week to do whatever they wanted with. I looked forward to my bit of time every week and it helped keep me sane. Sure, some weeks the hours were at weird times (I learned which stores were 24hr.), but it helped endure that time.
It sounds like you guys may have some other things to work on, but maybe an idea like this is doable in the meanwhile.

[Anonymous]

Oh honey I lived like this for YEARS. For the kids for the budget for the vacations for my health issues. If things don’t improve with some sleep. GET OUT ASAP. Turns out DH had significant mental issues and hiding a LOT behind those temper tantrums. You can’t get the years of your life back.