Help Needed for 12 YO - Out of Control/Defiant

[Anonymous]

Little background on our situation.

12 YO DS (13 in a few weeks) has become extremely difficult to deal with the past year or so. He is defiant to both parents (no to everything, f**k you, bi**H, etc.). He has also become violent at times by destroying property (iphone, xbox, ripped screens from house, etc). He has also been looking at pron on the computer (a lot-possible addiction), asking girls to send him nude pics, and stealing our credit card to order things on line. Police have been called to the house twice (non-emergency number). He now refuses to go to CCD, has quit soccer, and lately refusing to go to some basketball (which we thought he loved). We do not suspect any alcohol or drugs.

He does not display any of these traits either at school, with friends or any coaches of his teams. He is well liked by everyone and has many friends and makes friends easily. Other parents always comment how nice and courteous he is when they interact with him. We discussed with his school counselor and received some feedback that he was talkative in class but never to the point of being disruptive. Never any incidents from the school with other students. He has managed to maintain decent grades (A's and B's).

We have taken nearly everything away from him - no phone, limited access to computer (only homework and supervised), no tv, etc.

We started having him see a psychologist at the end of last school year and continued for most of the summer. It turned out she was not very effective and was a complete waste of time. We moved him to a male psychologist at the start of this school year. He has been to him 3 times and refused to go 2 times. The psychologist has not had enough time with to make a diagnosis but is perplexed by the behavior not showing itself anywhere except at home with parents and not even with sister. He claims he doesn't need any help and that we do. We offered him group sessions with all of his, which he also refused to attend.

Things have been escalating with each incident and we fear he is a ticking time bomb. He is now refusing to go to counseling. We are really at a loss on how to handle getting him the help that we think he needs. It is really tearing our family apart.

Any insight on how to handle?

[Anonymous]

Therapy for you and for your husband. You need to meet with a behavior psychologist to discuss how to effectively intervene with this kid's behavior.

It doesn't matter if the kid won't go. You go and get help dealing with him.

[Anonymous]

OP- have you been to Shapiro's parenting class? That could help you with techniques at home.

In the mean time, you need to find a shrink he'll actually go see. Keep looking for one. And bribe the heck out of him to go.

[Anonymous]

I hate to bring this up, but could something have happened to him (rape? abuse?) that he is lashing out for? If this just started to happen, and it was like a switch was switched, and now he's refusing to participate in all the activities he used to and is lashing out at home, it could be a symptom of something. Maybe he's really really angry but holding it all in until he gets home and then it explodes.

[Anonymous]

A couple of things - next time you are about to lecture him or say something like "how many times have we told you...", stop yourself, and take another action - walk away, say something positive, hug him or reach out an gently touch his arm, anything to stop the cycle. It's not a long term or permanent fix but can bring some temporary peace.

also, just because you don't suspect drugs or alcohol doesn't mean that's not the case. Sorry but it does happen even in "good families"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to bring this up, but could something have happened to him (rape? abuse?) that he is lashing out for? If this just started to happen, and it was like a switch was switched, and now he's refusing to participate in all the activities he used to and is lashing out at home, it could be a symptom of something. Maybe he's really really angry but holding it all in until he gets home and then it explodes.

This is what popped into my head too. The anger is targeted, the porn, the sexual harassment of girls, dropping out of activities, refusal of therapy (possibly dropping each therapist as they get close to the issue) ...

But I also agree the parents need counseling of their own and some parenting classes as the anger is targeted at them.

[Anonymous]

If he won't go to counseling, you bring the counseling to him.

[Anonymous]

I would get an evaluation from an adolescent psychiatrist as well. Where do you live?

Also many counties have behavioral crisis hotlines you can call rather than the police.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would get an evaluation from an adolescent psychiatrist as well. Where do you live?

Also many counties have behavioral crisis hotlines you can call rather than the police.

Bethesda. Any suggestions?

[Anonymous]

You need FAMILY therapy. There may or may not be a separate issue with your son -- but you need to closely and humbly consider your role as parents as well. If you're only seeing this behavior at home, then you need to look to all possible causes before you create an "identified patient."

It sounds like you're locked in a punitive, confrontational cycle with him. How exactly to you expect him to be a pleasant member of the family when you've basically turned your home into a prison for him? (No TV, no phone, no computer). Obviously you have to set limits and impose consequences; but you can't expect to make his homelife miserable and have him act happy at home.

You desperately need counseling FOR YOURSELVES to learn productive ways of dealing with him. I STRONGLY recommend reading the Alan Kazdin books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need FAMILY therapy. There may or may not be a separate issue with your son -- but you need to closely and humbly consider your role as parents as well. If you're only seeing this behavior at home, then you need to look to all possible causes before you create an "identified patient."

It sounds like you're locked in a punitive, confrontational cycle with him. How exactly to you expect him to be a pleasant member of the family when you've basically turned your home into a prison for him? (No TV, no phone, no computer). Obviously you have to set limits and impose consequences; but you can't expect to make his homelife miserable and have him act happy at home.

You desperately need counseling FOR YOURSELVES to learn productive ways of dealing with him. I STRONGLY recommend reading the Alan Kazdin books.

And geez, stop calling the police on your own child, WTF! You are really floundering as parents and need serious help. If you think he's an imminent danger to self or others that's one thing. But don't call the cops on your own flesh and blood if he's just having a temper tantrum. You need professional support ASAP to come up with more productive ways of dealing with your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need FAMILY therapy. There may or may not be a separate issue with your son -- but you need to closely and humbly consider your role as parents as well. If you're only seeing this behavior at home, then you need to look to all possible causes before you create an "identified patient."

It sounds like you're locked in a punitive, confrontational cycle with him. How exactly to you expect him to be a pleasant member of the family when you've basically turned your home into a prison for him? (No TV, no phone, no computer). Obviously you have to set limits and impose consequences; but you can't expect to make his homelife miserable and have him act happy at home.

You desperately need counseling FOR YOURSELVES to learn productive ways of dealing with him. I STRONGLY recommend reading the Alan Kazdin books.

And geez, stop calling the police on your own child, WTF! You are really floundering as parents and need serious help. If you think he's an imminent danger to self or others that's one thing. But don't call the cops on your own flesh and blood if he's just having a temper tantrum. You need professional support ASAP to come up with more productive ways of dealing with your child.

It is more then a temper tantrum. His therapist told us we need to call the police when he gets violent and physical, which he did. He smashed my iphone, threw a table at DH and ripped screens out of the windows. The second time DS called 911, they called back and sent someone out.
It's easy for you to sit there and judge and think we are bad parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need FAMILY therapy. There may or may not be a separate issue with your son -- but you need to closely and humbly consider your role as parents as well. If you're only seeing this behavior at home, then you need to look to all possible causes before you create an "identified patient."

It sounds like you're locked in a punitive, confrontational cycle with him. How exactly to you expect him to be a pleasant member of the family when you've basically turned your home into a prison for him? (No TV, no phone, no computer). Obviously you have to set limits and impose consequences; but you can't expect to make his homelife miserable and have him act happy at home.

You desperately need counseling FOR YOURSELVES to learn productive ways of dealing with him. I STRONGLY recommend reading the Alan Kazdin books.

And geez, stop calling the police on your own child, WTF! You are really floundering as parents and need serious help. If you think he's an imminent danger to self or others that's one thing. But don't call the cops on your own flesh and blood if he's just having a temper tantrum. You need professional support ASAP to come up with more productive ways of dealing with your child.

It is more then a temper tantrum. His therapist told us we need to call the police when he gets violent and physical, which he did. He smashed my iphone, threw a table at DH and ripped screens out of the windows. The second time DS called 911, they called back and sent someone out.
It's easy for you to sit there and judge and think we are bad parents

You need a new therapist with solutions other than "call the police."

I'm not saying you're bad parents, but your defensiveness is telling. This is a family problem, and you must look to your own role in creating the dynamic and resolving the dynamic. Focusing only on the child and placing all the blame on him is wrong and not going to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need FAMILY therapy. There may or may not be a separate issue with your son -- but you need to closely and humbly consider your role as parents as well. If you're only seeing this behavior at home, then you need to look to all possible causes before you create an "identified patient."

It sounds like you're locked in a punitive, confrontational cycle with him. How exactly to you expect him to be a pleasant member of the family when you've basically turned your home into a prison for him? (No TV, no phone, no computer). Obviously you have to set limits and impose consequences; but you can't expect to make his homelife miserable and have him act happy at home.

You desperately need counseling FOR YOURSELVES to learn productive ways of dealing with him. I STRONGLY recommend reading the Alan Kazdin books.

We set many limits and laid out expected behaviors, such as no porn and no sending dick pics, which he did anyway. Are we supposed to say ok just don't do it again but here keep your phone. It is a repeated pattern of failing to follow rules, which results in a loss of that privilege.
He has been offered the ability to earn back the privilege by attending counseling, which he refuses.

We don't take away these things for fun.

By the way for everyone thinking we are awful parents, we have a 15 year old with no such issues.

I don't think people here comprehend the level of defiance and violence being described here because no one of you have ever witnessed or experienced.

I'm open to suggestions from others who have experienced the same type of behaviors and for those with no experience I would ask you keep your advice (opinions) to yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Little background on our situation.

12 YO DS (13 in a few weeks) has become extremely difficult to deal with the past year or so. He is defiant to both parents (no to everything, f**k you, bi**H, etc.). He has also become violent at times by destroying property (iphone, xbox, ripped screens from house, etc). He has also been looking at pron on the computer (a lot-possible addiction), asking girls to send him nude pics, and stealing our credit card to order things on line. Police have been called to the house twice (non-emergency number). He now refuses to go to CCD, has quit soccer, and lately refusing to go to some basketball (which we thought he loved). We do not suspect any alcohol or drugs.

He does not display any of these traits either at school, with friends or any coaches of his teams. He is well liked by everyone and has many friends and makes friends easily. Other parents always comment how nice and courteous he is when they interact with him. We discussed with his school counselor and received some feedback that he was talkative in class but never to the point of being disruptive. Never any incidents from the school with other students. He has managed to maintain decent grades (A's and B's).

We have taken nearly everything away from him - no phone, limited access to computer (only homework and supervised), no tv, etc.

We started having him see a psychologist at the end of last school year and continued for most of the summer. It turned out she was not very effective and was a complete waste of time. We moved him to a male psychologist at the start of this school year. He has been to him 3 times and refused to go 2 times. The psychologist has not had enough time with to make a diagnosis but is perplexed by the behavior not showing itself anywhere except at home with parents and not even with sister. He claims he doesn't need any help and that we do. We offered him group sessions with all of his, which he also refused to attend.

Things have been escalating with each incident and we fear he is a ticking time bomb. He is now refusing to go to counseling. We are really at a loss on how to handle getting him the help that we think he needs. It is really tearing our family apart.

Any insight on how to handle?

Oppositional defiance disorder - I would have considered anxiety as the cause (and still wouldn't rule it out if there has been some trauma or unreported bullying), but the stealing, computer misuse, etc. cause me to think this is ODD probably worsened/ caused by adolescent hormones.
The whole family will need to be in therapy to deal with it. ODD requires specific, consistent behavioral interventions. Read the website Empowering Parents.