Help Needed for 12 YO - Out of Control/Defiant

[Anonymous]

I don't see pathology here. Yes, I see an out of control, defiant, extraordinarily difficult to deal with 12 year old, but this is a classic example of "stormy adolescence" come on full blast. Doesn't sound like ODD, sexual trauma, bullying, or the other theories. Sounds like an adolescent who is under the full blast of testosterone and totally testing his limits. Family therapy and possibly boarding school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't see pathology here. Yes, I see an out of control, defiant, extraordinarily difficult to deal with 12 year old, but this is a classic example of "stormy adolescence" come on full blast. Doesn't sound like ODD, sexual trauma, bullying, or the other theories. Sounds like an adolescent who is under the full blast of testosterone and totally testing his limits. Family therapy and possibly boarding school.

I see an awful lot of armchair psychiatrists on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Wow. Very sorry to hear. Not your fault. But yes your problem to solve. My first thought is to suspect the other parent, sorry. If he's mad at your both, maybe he thinks you approve of other parent's behaviour. Second, if you have clarity that other parent is not involved, my next suspicion is hormonal imbalance/surge and to switch to foods without added hormones. If he's surging, milk and meat with hormones can be cresting the wave beyond the kid's tolerance. Nothing wrong with calling police as instructed and shame on the fool who says otherwise. My boss's son pulled a knife on his mother and tried to choke her, and he was eventually diagnosed with something severe. As for jr, try to reconstruct if it was trauma. If it was not trauma, and if other parent was not involved, try military school and that stuff will end. Either way, I am sorry for your pain. Keep the faith and pray for him. I think many who read your story will.

[Anonymous]

You mention in your post that this behavior has been going on for about a year now so it sounds like his behavior started about the 5- 6th grade? It seems he has learned that he can vent at home rather than at school where the consequences are greater. He seems to be taking his anger out with safe people, i.e. his parents or punishing/ blaming you for something that has happened to him in the past unbeknownst to you The sexual acting out might indicate that. He certainly doesn’t follow the pattern of the usual downhill decline when behavior problems escalate to the degree you describe as he is still maintaining at school.
I would start with a physical to rule out any hormone imbalance and then seek a thorough psychological/psychiatric evaluation to rule out any mental illness such as pediatric bipolar disorder and to create a social history of what stresses have taken place in his life and family in the last few years. You may need to consult the clinical psychologist or psychiatrist beforehand to develop a plan as to how he will be seen since he is reluctant to go to counseling. The behavior you are describing in my opinion is beyond just family counseling. The sooner you get his behaviors under control the better and safer it will be for both your son and your family. Depending upon where you live you may be able to access County mental health which would be less expensive. I would call different agencies including the School Psychologist at his Middle School and the School District office to get referrals that they know are competent. You will need to be your child’s advocate in all of this and as his parents will need support as well to go through this tough time. Would love to hear his progress. Hugs to you and prayers for wisdom and perseverance in this situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Little background on our situation.

12 YO DS (13 in a few weeks) has become extremely difficult to deal with the past year or so. He is defiant to both parents (no to everything, f**k you, bi**H, etc.). He has also become violent at times by destroying property (iphone, xbox, ripped screens from house, etc). He has also been looking at pron on the computer (a lot-possible addiction), asking girls to send him nude pics, and stealing our credit card to order things on line. Police have been called to the house twice (non-emergency number). He now refuses to go to CCD, has quit soccer, and lately refusing to go to some basketball (which we thought he loved). We do not suspect any alcohol or drugs.

He does not display any of these traits either at school, with friends or any coaches of his teams. He is well liked by everyone and has many friends and makes friends easily. Other parents always comment how nice and courteous he is when they interact with him. We discussed with his school counselor and received some feedback that he was talkative in class but never to the point of being disruptive. Never any incidents from the school with other students. He has managed to maintain decent grades (A's and B's).

We have taken nearly everything away from him - no phone, limited access to computer (only homework and supervised), no tv, etc.

We started having him see a psychologist at the end of last school year and continued for most of the summer. It turned out she was not very effective and was a complete waste of time. We moved him to a male psychologist at the start of this school year. He has been to him 3 times and refused to go 2 times. The psychologist has not had enough time with to make a diagnosis but is perplexed by the behavior not showing itself anywhere except at home with parents and not even with sister. He claims he doesn't need any help and that we do. We offered him group sessions with all of his, which he also refused to attend.

Things have been escalating with each incident and we fear he is a ticking time bomb. He is now refusing to go to counseling. We are really at a loss on how to handle getting him the help that we think he needs. It is really tearing our family apart.

Any insight on how to handle?

Oh HAYLE no

[Anonymous]

^If you haven't dealt with an out of control kid, you really don't need to comment.

[Anonymous]

Its not you as parents, considering the onset of the issues I would suggest mental illness. My brother started this type of behavior at that age - then huge depressive swings. We also were instructed to call the police as that was the only authority he would listen to and as he got older and stronger there were concerns of him seriously hurting us. Also if it is mental illness the police reports were instrumental in getting him the medical help he needed - including hospitalization for his manic behavior. While I really hope this isn't the case - it sounds like you are doing the best you can I really hope you can find a solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think ODD pops up at age 12.

Not OP- I mentioned ODD and I'm curious if there were earlier signs of it-- I would be concerned if he was a typical kid, then suddenly became aggressive and immune to consequences. ODD is usually symptomatic of something else-- I didn't see where OP mentioned ADHD or another diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You mention in your post that this behavior has been going on for about a year now so it sounds like his behavior started about the 5- 6th grade? [/b]It seems he has learned that he can vent at home rather than at school where the consequences are greater. He seems to be taking his anger out with safe people, i.e. his parents or punishing/ blaming you for something that has happened to him in the past unbeknownst to you The sexual acting out might indicate that. He certainly doesn’t follow the pattern of the usual downhill decline when behavior problems escalate to the degree you describe as he is still maintaining at school.[/b]
I would start with a physical to rule out any hormone imbalance and then seek a thorough psychological/psychiatric evaluation to rule out any mental illness such as pediatric bipolar disorder and to create a social history of what stresses have taken place in his life and family in the last few years. You may need to consult the clinical psychologist or psychiatrist beforehand to develop a plan as to how he will be seen since he is reluctant to go to counseling. The behavior you are describing in my opinion is beyond just family counseling. The sooner you get his behaviors under control the better and safer it will be for both your son and your family. Depending upon where you live you may be able to access County mental health which would be less expensive. I would call different agencies including the School Psychologist at his Middle School and the School District office to get referrals that they know are competent. You will need to be your child’s advocate in all of this and as his parents will need support as well to go through this tough time. Would love to hear his progress. Hugs to you and prayers for wisdom and perseverance in this situation.

ITA. I've been through this as a sibling and an aunt. Call your pediatrician, if you haven't already, and ask for full physical and referral to psychiatrist. If the older girls were are at his school, talk to the school psychologist and ask for advice. There may be other kids at school involved.

You mentioned CCD. Maybe you could ask a trusted parent at church if they've noticed any other kids refusing to go. It doesn't hurt to ask.

So sorry your family is going through this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think ODD pops up at age 12.

Not OP- I mentioned ODD and I'm curious if there were earlier signs of it-- I would be concerned if he was a typical kid, then suddenly became aggressive and immune to consequences. ODD is usually symptomatic of something else-- I didn't see where OP mentioned ADHD or another diagnosis.

+1. ODD is kind of s placeholder diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

I really wouldn't rule out that your behavior as parents may not be helping. The fact that you seem really defensive about this is concerning. Just swallow your pride and imagine what if it really is all you? Wouldn't you want to change? It's not your "fault" as I'm sure you're doing the best you know how, but maybe there's a therapist out there who could help you learn how to set limits in a better way for this particular child. Just imagine that you're learning a new skill. No one is perfect OP and that's okay.

[Anonymous]

This sounds like typical hormone induced (perhaps a bit extreme) acting out from an otherwise well adjusted 12 year old that has turned into a power struggle. You can't win by punishing him or forcing him; the power war will just escalate further. What you can do is try to defuse his "rants." When he calls you a bitch, try to respond like you would to a pesky sibling. "OK, this bitch just sent you to your cage. You can come out when you choose to be human again. The bark!" If he laughs, you've won a round. If he comes out in five minutes and apologizes, you're on your way back. Defusing behavior with humor often works with kids this age and can quickly deter them from a self-destructive track. Think about how you treated a tantruming three year old, often by distracting them, then moving on without repercussions. Same concept.
By the way, it's not mental illness if he can maintain socially positive behavior with everyone but you, its normal adolescent "cutting apron strings" behavior gone wild. Try to defuse it.
A camping or skiing, snorkel or scuba trip, even if it means a few days out of school, might help get you back on track.

[Anonymous]

I'm so sorry your family is going through this. You are not bad parents. We have one problem free kid and we're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel with the problem kid finally. It's rough few years. Ugh, no real advice just hugs.

[Anonymous]

Look into in home counseling. This is where the counselors come into your home for a certain number of hours per week. It is invasive, but may help.

[Anonymous]

I don't believe you as parents caused this, but practicing validation could help you handle him. Thread on this:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/478538.page