Help Needed for 12 YO - Out of Control/Defiant

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need FAMILY therapy. There may or may not be a separate issue with your son -- but you need to closely and humbly consider your role as parents as well. If you're only seeing this behavior at home, then you need to look to all possible causes before you create an "identified patient."

It sounds like you're locked in a punitive, confrontational cycle with him. How exactly to you expect him to be a pleasant member of the family when you've basically turned your home into a prison for him? (No TV, no phone, no computer). Obviously you have to set limits and impose consequences; but you can't expect to make his homelife miserable and have him act happy at home.

You desperately need counseling FOR YOURSELVES to learn productive ways of dealing with him. I STRONGLY recommend reading the Alan Kazdin books.

And geez, stop calling the police on your own child, WTF! You are really floundering as parents and need serious help. If you think he's an imminent danger to self or others that's one thing. But don't call the cops on your own flesh and blood if he's just having a temper tantrum. You need professional support ASAP to come up with more productive ways of dealing with your child.

It is more then a temper tantrum. His therapist told us we need to call the police when he gets violent and physical, which he did. He smashed my iphone, threw a table at DH and ripped screens out of the windows. The second time DS called 911, they called back and sent someone out.
It's easy for you to sit there and judge and think we are bad parents

You need a new therapist with solutions other than "call the police."

Are you a therapist? Have you ever dealt with a violent teenager? What happens next time when he picks up a knife or some other weapon? Do I just say put it down calmly and hope he complies.
You are living in a fantasy world and have never dealt with a problem child.

I'm not saying you're bad parents, but your defensiveness is telling. This is a family problem, and you must look to your own role in creating the dynamic and resolving the dynamic. Focusing only on the child and placing all the blame on him is wrong and not going to work.

[Anonymous]

Op, were you able to make an appointment with a psychiatrist, as suggested on your other thread?

[Anonymous]

All of the posters blaming the parents are 100% wrong and have never been in their shoes.
If you have not been in a similar situation - please stop posting. Just because your child is perfect doesn't mean every child is like yours, some sadly have mental illness. It does not mean the parents are the cause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Little background on our situation.

12 YO DS (13 in a few weeks) has become extremely difficult to deal with the past year or so. He is defiant to both parents (no to everything, f**k you, bi**H, etc.). He has also become violent at times by destroying property (iphone, xbox, ripped screens from house, etc). He has also been looking at pron on the computer (a lot-possible addiction), asking girls to send him nude pics, and stealing our credit card to order things on line. Police have been called to the house twice (non-emergency number). He now refuses to go to CCD, has quit soccer, and lately refusing to go to some basketball (which we thought he loved). We do not suspect any alcohol or drugs.

He does not display any of these traits either at school, with friends or any coaches of his teams. He is well liked by everyone and has many friends and makes friends easily. Other parents always comment how nice and courteous he is when they interact with him. We discussed with his school counselor and received some feedback that he was talkative in class but never to the point of being disruptive. Never any incidents from the school with other students. He has managed to maintain decent grades (A's and B's).

We have taken nearly everything away from him - no phone, limited access to computer (only homework and supervised), no tv, etc.

We started having him see a psychologist at the end of last school year and continued for most of the summer. It turned out she was not very effective and was a complete waste of time. We moved him to a male psychologist at the start of this school year. He has been to him 3 times and refused to go 2 times. The psychologist has not had enough time with to make a diagnosis but is perplexed by the behavior not showing itself anywhere except at home with parents and not even with sister. He claims he doesn't need any help and that we do. We offered him group sessions with all of his, which he also refused to attend.

Things have been escalating with each incident and we fear he is a ticking time bomb. He is now refusing to go to counseling. We are really at a loss on how to handle getting him the help that we think he needs. It is really tearing our family apart.

Any insight on how to handle?

Oppositional defiance disorder - I would have considered anxiety as the cause (and still wouldn't rule it out if there has been some trauma or unreported bullying), but the stealing, computer misuse, etc. cause me to think this is ODD probably worsened/ caused by adolescent hormones.
The whole family will need to be in therapy to deal with it. ODD requires specific, consistent behavioral interventions. Read the website Empowering Parents.

pp here again- you're not bad parents by the way. If this is ODD or burgeoning conduct disorder it's one of the most difficult, trying things to live with. I know people who have a child with conduct disorder and a child with special needs (HFA). They say hands down, conduct disorder is the hardest thing they have ever been through. Kids with conduct disorder are generally unresponsive to things that would motivate most other people--they can appear to act without empathy or foresight or care into how their behavior affects the household-- creates chaos and anxiety for the whole family.

It requires specific management- you may need to find a specialist who deals particularly in conduct disorder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, were you able to make an appointment with a psychiatrist, as suggested on your other thread?

Working on it today - thanks. Was hoping to get some suggestions here but apparently that is not happening. Easier to blame it on bad parenting.

[Anonymous]

OP here - We have been trying family counseling but he refuses to go. The few session we had together he clams up and says nothing. We have been going separate from him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All of the posters blaming the parents are 100% wrong and have never been in their shoes.
If you have not been in a similar situation - please stop posting. Just because your child is perfect doesn't mean every child is like yours, some sadly have mental illness. It does not mean the parents are the cause.

I am not blaming the parents, and I have been up close to this situation (as a sibling, granted, not a parent.) If the child is being defiant at home, not at school, the child is in part reacting to how he or she is being parented. If the parents are totally unwilling to explore their own role in both creating and solving the dynamic, they are never going to get anywhere. The parent-child interaction is a relationship with three parties. You can't just chop off two of those parties and look only to the child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, were you able to make an appointment with a psychiatrist, as suggested on your other thread?

Working on it today - thanks. Was hoping to get some suggestions here but apparently that is not happening. Easier to blame it on bad parenting.

Please do not feel discouraged by some posters on this thread. A lot of people just scroll through the new forum posts and feel the need to respond without the firsthand knowledge or experience. Get a diagnosis from a psychiatrist. If meds are necessary, have your son tested for metabolic absorption (genesight.com). That way you know which meds will work best. I hope you find help your family needs. Hugs to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - We have been trying family counseling but he refuses to go. The few session we had together he clams up and says nothing. We have been going separate from him.

OP- can you pick him up from school and drive him straight to a psychologist? Once he's home, it's a power struggle to get him out of the house - if his appointment is during school hours or directly after, you already have him in the car. Once he's in the car, bribe him with something- iPad time perhaps and more on the way home if he gets out of the car and visits with the doc.

Just trying to be creative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of the posters blaming the parents are 100% wrong and have never been in their shoes.
If you have not been in a similar situation - please stop posting. Just because your child is perfect doesn't mean every child is like yours, some sadly have mental illness. It does not mean the parents are the cause.

I am not blaming the parents, and I have been up close to this situation (as a sibling, granted, not a parent.) If the child is being defiant at home, not at school, the child is in part reacting to how he or she is being parented. If the parents are totally unwilling to explore their own role in both creating and solving the dynamic, they are never going to get anywhere. The parent-child interaction is a relationship with three parties. You can't just chop off two of those parties and look only to the child.

....but he is acting out with others. Porn, inappropriate texting (to put it mildly), quitting sports, etc. ODD/conduct disorder requires parent management training, not because of bad parenting, but because these parents are dealing with problems far beyond typical teen behavior.

[Anonymous]

I posted a few times in the other thread, but I just wanted to offer you support, OP. I have been through something similar (huge change in personality and behavior of teen). In our case, it was severe anxiety (and growing depression) and some undiagnosed learning issues. All very intensely exacerbated by hormones.

Keep on throwing everything you can at it. If my DS wouldn't go to therapy, I'd go. (I had to pay anyway.) We got neuropsych testing, I took a Dr. Shapiro class on parenting challenging teens. I read every book I could get my hands on (if you haven't read, Yes, Your Teen Is Crazy, I highly recommend), switched therapists and psychiatrists several times until we found a decent fit. It gave me some sense that I was at least doing everything I could. Things are better with the right meds cocktail, but we will never be where we thought we would be with him. It took me a long time to get over that.

What is his history like? Is this a HUGE departure from norm for him? Did it come on gradually? Suddenly? For my DS, there was a history of anxiety which seemed to have resolved, but in hindsight, there were subtle indications that things were not ok, but I didn't really see until they were VERY MUCH not ok.

I recommend Rathbone and Associates for therapy, if you want a new recommendation. They also have a program called DBT which is intensive, but if you can get your DS to buy into it, has been very successful.

On getting him to go, bribe, trick and take away anything you can. Getting him to therapy and psychiatry is priority no. 1!

And if I could do anything differently, I would have had a therapist just for me. Because this is so, so hard and it affected the way I parent my other kids as well and I really could have used some help with that.

[Anonymous]

How are other parents ok with him if he's sending dick pics and getting girls to send him nude pics? Something seems off here - is he going outside his circles to do this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are other parents ok with him if he's sending dick pics and getting girls to send him nude pics? Something seems off here - is he going outside his circles to do this?

Yes - outside his core group. Older girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are other parents ok with him if he's sending dick pics and getting girls to send him nude pics? Something seems off here - is he going outside his circles to do this?

Yes - outside his core group. Older girls.

OP- the first thing to do is put permissions on any computer your DS uses. Viewing porn is easily fixed by locking down over eighteen sites. The second is to remove his phone for sending inappropriate pictures. Your DS will get into a serious amount of trouble as a sex offender eventually for sending/ receiving pics. The only thing that is saving him right now is his relatively young age.
If he uses your credit card again, let him know that you will sell his stuff and empty any bank account that he has to pay for the losses...same for destroying your property. If he physically assaults anyone, you will call the cops.
I posted earlier about ODD. I think your son is very troubled and rather than punitive consequences, he needs logical consequences.

[Anonymous]

I don't think ODD pops up at age 12.