Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Wow.

You know what? It's OK that nobody here respects the hijab. Why is it OK? It's OK because so many posters here have said they will defend your right to wear whatever you want.

Your problem is that you want us to take it a step farther: you want us to respect and admire hijab. Which, as you can see, just isn't going to happen. You're actually part of the problem here, because your arguments, rather than being persuasive, apparently seem sexist and frankly bizarre (hair is a sexual weapon???) to many here.

So your frustrated that you haven't won live for the hijab. But what do you do? You're so darn frustrated and angry that you resort to as hominems that make you look frustrated. You even pull the race card where none exists with your clumsy mixing of the geographical and cultural sense of "western", which I sort of get because you clearly want to establish some sort of moral high ground, but in this case your semantics games are too transparent to work, sorry.

Of course it's OK - it's not like anyone's feelings matter, not mine, and not yours.

Incidentally, I don't cover and don't believe in any god at all. But hey, my heart still brims with gratitude that you're willing to die on the hill of my rights. Also with amusement that you manage to paint a picture of your opponent that suits your narrative without a shred of evidence.

I don't want you to respect and admire hijab; it frankly doesn't matter to me. All I want is to point out your hypocrisy when you look at a Muslim woman with your big earnest eyes and say, really, I want to understand, whyyyy? whyyyy? And she says, I cover because I feel my hair has sexual power and I'd rather not show it. That's her why. And instead of withdrawing like a normal person who says, ok, not for me, I don't get it but to each her own, you throw yourself into the most ridiculous argument of the century telling her she shouldn't feel that way, that men have hair too, some men have long hair, some dude years ago used to powder his wig, and really, the most irrelevant things ever. What do you think is gonna happen? A Muslim lady is going to slap her forehead and say, glory be! I see the light and DCUM showed it to me!

You don't want to hear what the other feels. You are just interested in your soapbox. And it's kind of comical how you don't see it.

And yeah, you did use "Western" and "Muslim" as opposites. It's OK. Own it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yes. Really. I do understand your perspective (hijab allows a woman to be modest as Allah asks) and will even grant you that yours is perhaps the prevalent one in the Muslim world. But, as I said, your view appears to be anything but universal among your Muslim sisters and I am interested in hearing these other perspectives too (the Koran says nothing about the veil - it's a cultural practice that is turning into a religious one). I also thank the posters who discussed how quickly this tradition seems to be spreading and that girls today are more likely to be hijabi's than their grandmothers. All in all, I learned a lot. Thanks to all.

It's not my perspective. I'm not Muslim. Also, I'm an only child. Gold medal of the night for assumption ability goes to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wow.

You know what? It's OK that nobody here respects the hijab. Why is it OK? It's OK because so many posters here have said they will defend your right to wear whatever you want.

Your problem is that you want us to take it a step farther: you want us to respect and admire hijab. Which, as you can see, just isn't going to happen. You're actually part of the problem here, because your arguments, rather than being persuasive, apparently seem sexist and frankly bizarre (hair is a sexual weapon???) to many here.

So your frustrated that you haven't won live for the hijab. But what do you do? You're so darn frustrated and angry that you resort to as hominems that make you look frustrated. You even pull the race card where none exists with your clumsy mixing of the geographical and cultural sense of "western", which I sort of get because you clearly want to establish some sort of moral high ground, but in this case your semantics games are too transparent to work, sorry.

Of course it's OK - it's not like anyone's feelings matter, not mine, and not yours.

Incidentally, I don't cover and don't believe in any god at all. But hey, my heart still brims with gratitude that you're willing to die on the hill of my rights. Also with amusement that you manage to paint a picture of your opponent that suits your narrative without a shred of evidence.

I don't want you to respect and admire hijab; it frankly doesn't matter to me. All I want is to point out your hypocrisy when you look at a Muslim woman with your big earnest eyes and say, really, I want to understand, whyyyy? whyyyy? And she says, I cover because I feel my hair has sexual power and I'd rather not show it. That's her why. And instead of withdrawing like a normal person who says, ok, not for me, I don't get it but to each her own, you throw yourself into the most ridiculous argument of the century telling her she shouldn't feel that way, that men have hair too, some men have long hair, some dude years ago used to powder his wig, and really, the most irrelevant things ever. What do you think is gonna happen? A Muslim lady is going to slap her forehead and say, glory be! I see the light and DCUM showed it to me!

You don't want to hear what the other feels. You are just interested in your soapbox. And it's kind of comical how you don't see it.

And yeah, you did use "Western" and "Muslim" as opposites. It's OK. Own it.

Wow. Ok. So, I am a different poster and I "get" that some women wearing hijab feel their hair has "sexual power," but as someone who has lived in the Middle East I think the reality is far, far more complicated than that. I think a lot of posters feel it is more complicated than that. Namely, a lot of bad, weird things happened in my parents' home country when women started wearing the hijab en masse, and I guess you have to have lived through these cultural changes to be alarmed by them and a little distressed. I don't want to "save" Muslim women, nor do I disrespect them as people. I think the societal changes that led women in the middle east to take off head coverings en masse, and then put them back on again, are very interesting. How could you not? I understand that there are many different reasons for wearing the hijab. But I guess you just think we are all hypocritical Islamophobes, so carry on. Not sure why you feel the need to read a thread you are so aggravated about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wow.

You know what? It's OK that nobody here respects the hijab. Why is it OK? It's OK because so many posters here have said they will defend your right to wear whatever you want.

Your problem is that you want us to take it a step farther: you want us to respect and admire hijab. Which, as you can see, just isn't going to happen. You're actually part of the problem here, because your arguments, rather than being persuasive, apparently seem sexist and frankly bizarre (hair is a sexual weapon???) to many here.

So your frustrated that you haven't won live for the hijab. But what do you do? You're so darn frustrated and angry that you resort to as hominems that make you look frustrated. You even pull the race card where none exists with your clumsy mixing of the geographical and cultural sense of "western", which I sort of get because you clearly want to establish some sort of moral high ground, but in this case your semantics games are too transparent to work, sorry.

Of course it's OK - it's not like anyone's feelings matter, not mine, and not yours.

Incidentally, I don't cover and don't believe in any god at all. But hey, my heart still brims with gratitude that you're willing to die on the hill of my rights. Also with amusement that you manage to paint a picture of your opponent that suits your narrative without a shred of evidence.

I don't want you to respect and admire hijab; it frankly doesn't matter to me. All I want is to point out your hypocrisy when you look at a Muslim woman with your big earnest eyes and say, really, I want to understand, whyyyy? whyyyy? And she says, I cover because I feel my hair has sexual power and I'd rather not show it. That's her why. And instead of withdrawing like a normal person who says, ok, not for me, I don't get it but to each her own, you throw yourself into the most ridiculous argument of the century telling her she shouldn't feel that way, that men have hair too, some men have long hair, some dude years ago used to powder his wig, and really, the most irrelevant things ever. What do you think is gonna happen? A Muslim lady is going to slap her forehead and say, glory be! I see the light and DCUM showed it to me!

You don't want to hear what the other feels. You are just interested in your soapbox. And it's kind of comical how you don't see it.

And yeah, you did use "Western" and "Muslim" as opposites. It's OK. Own it.

NP. I have read some of this thread with interest. I would like to understand. But pp you sound so sarcastic and pissed off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Of course it's OK - it's not like anyone's feelings matter, not mine, and not yours.

Incidentally, I don't cover and don't believe in any god at all. But hey, my heart still brims with gratitude that you're willing to die on the hill of my rights. Also with amusement that you manage to paint a picture of your opponent that suits your narrative without a shred of evidence.

I don't want you to respect and admire hijab; it frankly doesn't matter to me. All I want is to point out your hypocrisy when you look at a Muslim woman with your big earnest eyes and say, really, I want to understand, whyyyy? whyyyy? And she says, I cover because I feel my hair has sexual power and I'd rather not show it. That's her why. And instead of withdrawing like a normal person who says, ok, not for me, I don't get it but to each her own, you throw yourself into the most ridiculous argument of the century telling her she shouldn't feel that way, that men have hair too, some men have long hair, some dude years ago used to powder his wig, and really, the most irrelevant things ever. What do you think is gonna happen? A Muslim lady is going to slap her forehead and say, glory be! I see the light and DCUM showed it to me!

You don't want to hear what the other feels. You are just interested in your soapbox. And it's kind of comical how you don't see it.

And yeah, you did use "Western" and "Muslim" as opposites. It's OK. Own it.

Was any of this necessary or even remotely justified?

Multiple posters have said they defend a woman's right to veil (maybe nobody said they were going to die on the hill). So you mock them.

Multiple posters have pressed you to understand why women veil, because you set yourself up as the expert here. Nobody forced you to set yourself up as the expert on this subject. Unfortunately, your explanation that hair has sexual power is hard to understand or accept for many here, so they press you and ask more questions. So you call their perfectly natural and reasonable objections (men wear long hair et cetera) the "most ridiculous argument of the century."

And yeah. You say you're atheist. Then you have Western values too, because in that post the word "western" obviously meant values not skin color. You should own that.

Honestly, you're the one who should have walked away. You set yourself up to speak for the veil. If you don't want to answer questions, then don't spend 40 pages arguing and insulting people over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Of course it's OK - it's not like anyone's feelings matter, not mine, and not yours.

Incidentally, I don't cover and don't believe in any god at all. But hey, my heart still brims with gratitude that you're willing to die on the hill of my rights. Also with amusement that you manage to paint a picture of your opponent that suits your narrative without a shred of evidence.

I don't want you to respect and admire hijab; it frankly doesn't matter to me. All I want is to point out your hypocrisy when you look at a Muslim woman with your big earnest eyes and say, really, I want to understand, whyyyy? whyyyy? And she says, I cover because I feel my hair has sexual power and I'd rather not show it. That's her why. And instead of withdrawing like a normal person who says, ok, not for me, I don't get it but to each her own, you throw yourself into the most ridiculous argument of the century telling her she shouldn't feel that way, that men have hair too, some men have long hair, some dude years ago used to powder his wig, and really, the most irrelevant things ever. What do you think is gonna happen? A Muslim lady is going to slap her forehead and say, glory be! I see the light and DCUM showed it to me!

You don't want to hear what the other feels. You are just interested in your soapbox. And it's kind of comical how you don't see it.

And yeah, you did use "Western" and "Muslim" as opposites. It's OK. Own it.

This makes no sense. You say feelings don't matter, but you're clearly being sarcastic and you're clearly angry that nobody buys your arguments. About the hijab which you claim you don't believe in.

You say you're just here to point out other peoples' hypocrisy. Is that what you live for, online?

You say we should "withdraw" rather than ask normal follow-up questions. Like, you know, in a normal discussion. Do you think you control this discussion?

Weird. None of this adds up.

[Anonymous]

So you are an atheist who decided to play devil's advocate by arguing for the hijab by using arguments like hair has sexual power and non-hijab wearers wear booty shorts and have higher rates of promiscuity and STDs?

Way to go. How fast can one say Islamaphobe to someone who makes Muslims and their reasons for wearing a hijab look ridiculous?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wow.

You know what? It's OK that nobody here respects the hijab. Why is it OK? It's OK because so many posters here have said they will defend your right to wear whatever you want.

Your problem is that you want us to take it a step farther: you want us to respect and admire hijab. Which, as you can see, just isn't going to happen. You're actually part of the problem here, because your arguments, rather than being persuasive, apparently seem sexist and frankly bizarre (hair is a sexual weapon???) to many here.

So your frustrated that you haven't won live for the hijab. But what do you do? You're so darn frustrated and angry that you resort to as hominems that make you look frustrated. You even pull the race card where none exists with your clumsy mixing of the geographical and cultural sense of "western", which I sort of get because you clearly want to establish some sort of moral high ground, but in this case your semantics games are too transparent to work, sorry.

Of course it's OK - it's not like anyone's feelings matter, not mine, and not yours.

Incidentally, I don't cover and don't believe in any god at all. But hey, my heart still brims with gratitude that you're willing to die on the hill of my rights. Also with amusement that you manage to paint a picture of your opponent that suits your narrative without a shred of evidence.

I don't want you to respect and admire hijab; it frankly doesn't matter to me. All I want is to point out your hypocrisy when you look at a Muslim woman with your big earnest eyes and say, really, I want to understand, whyyyy? whyyyy? And she says, I cover because I feel my hair has sexual power and I'd rather not show it. That's her why. And instead of withdrawing like a normal person who says, ok, not for me, I don't get it but to each her own, you throw yourself into the most ridiculous argument of the century telling her she shouldn't feel that way, that men have hair too, some men have long hair, some dude years ago used to powder his wig, and really, the most irrelevant things ever. What do you think is gonna happen? A Muslim lady is going to slap her forehead and say, glory be! I see the light and DCUM showed it to me!

You don't want to hear what the other feels. You are just interested in your soapbox. And it's kind of comical how you don't see it.

And yeah, you did use "Western" and "Muslim" as opposites. It's OK. Own it.

Wow. Ok. So, I am a different poster and I "get" that some women wearing hijab feel their hair has "sexual power," but as someone who has lived in the Middle East I think the reality is far, far more complicated than that. I think a lot of posters feel it is more complicated than that. Namely, a lot of bad, weird things happened in my parents' home country when women started wearing the hijab en masse, and I guess you have to have lived through these cultural changes to be alarmed by them and a little distressed. I don't want to "save" Muslim women, nor do I disrespect them as people. I think the societal changes that led women in the middle east to take off head coverings en masse, and then put them back on again, are very interesting. How could you not? I understand that there are many different reasons for wearing the hijab. But I guess you just think we are all hypocritical Islamophobes, so carry on. Not sure why you feel the need to read a thread you are so aggravated about.

Not the PP you were arguing with, but the same could be asked of you. You've mentioned your parents' home, the "disturbing changes" that came with hijab before. Yet here we are again, listening to this again. How many times can one apologize for what your family members went through? Seems the only satisfactory apology will be in the act of Muslim women removing hijab, eh? Let it go. Sorry it disturbs you. But hijab does not = mass discrimination of Christians, Jews, atheists. At least not in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course it's OK - it's not like anyone's feelings matter, not mine, and not yours.

Incidentally, I don't cover and don't believe in any god at all. But hey, my heart still brims with gratitude that you're willing to die on the hill of my rights. Also with amusement that you manage to paint a picture of your opponent that suits your narrative without a shred of evidence.

I don't want you to respect and admire hijab; it frankly doesn't matter to me. All I want is to point out your hypocrisy when you look at a Muslim woman with your big earnest eyes and say, really, I want to understand, whyyyy? whyyyy? And she says, I cover because I feel my hair has sexual power and I'd rather not show it. That's her why. And instead of withdrawing like a normal person who says, ok, not for me, I don't get it but to each her own, you throw yourself into the most ridiculous argument of the century telling her she shouldn't feel that way, that men have hair too, some men have long hair, some dude years ago used to powder his wig, and really, the most irrelevant things ever. What do you think is gonna happen? A Muslim lady is going to slap her forehead and say, glory be! I see the light and DCUM showed it to me!

You don't want to hear what the other feels. You are just interested in your soapbox. And it's kind of comical how you don't see it.

And yeah, you did use "Western" and "Muslim" as opposites. It's OK. Own it.

This makes no sense. You say feelings don't matter, but you're clearly being sarcastic and you're clearly angry that nobody buys your arguments. About the hijab which you claim you don't believe in.

You say you're just here to point out other peoples' hypocrisy. Is that what you live for, online?

You say we should "withdraw" rather than ask normal follow-up questions. Like, you know, in a normal discussion. Do you think you control this discussion?

Weird. None of this adds up.

I'm not the atheist PP, but there are no "follow up" questions that merit further discussion. Arguments such as men wear their hair long, men beautify their hair too ventures into the stupid territory. Sorry, but it just does. And I'm not going to entertain such ridiculous arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course it's OK - it's not like anyone's feelings matter, not mine, and not yours.

Incidentally, I don't cover and don't believe in any god at all. But hey, my heart still brims with gratitude that you're willing to die on the hill of my rights. Also with amusement that you manage to paint a picture of your opponent that suits your narrative without a shred of evidence.

I don't want you to respect and admire hijab; it frankly doesn't matter to me. All I want is to point out your hypocrisy when you look at a Muslim woman with your big earnest eyes and say, really, I want to understand, whyyyy? whyyyy? And she says, I cover because I feel my hair has sexual power and I'd rather not show it. That's her why. And instead of withdrawing like a normal person who says, ok, not for me, I don't get it but to each her own, you throw yourself into the most ridiculous argument of the century telling her she shouldn't feel that way, that men have hair too, some men have long hair, some dude years ago used to powder his wig, and really, the most irrelevant things ever. What do you think is gonna happen? A Muslim lady is going to slap her forehead and say, glory be! I see the light and DCUM showed it to me!

You don't want to hear what the other feels. You are just interested in your soapbox. And it's kind of comical how you don't see it.

And yeah, you did use "Western" and "Muslim" as opposites. It's OK. Own it.

Was any of this necessary or even remotely justified?

Multiple posters have said they defend a woman's right to veil (maybe nobody said they were going to die on the hill). So you mock them.

Multiple posters have pressed you to understand why women veil, because you set yourself up as the expert here. Nobody forced you to set yourself up as the expert on this subject. Unfortunately, your explanation that hair has sexual power is hard to understand or accept for many here, so they press you and ask more questions. So you call their perfectly natural and reasonable objections (men wear long hair et cetera) the "most ridiculous argument of the century."

And yeah. You say you're atheist. Then you have Western values too, because in that post the word "western" obviously meant values not skin color. You should own that.

Honestly, you're the one who should have walked away. You set yourself up to speak for the veil. If you don't want to answer questions, then don't spend 40 pages arguing and insulting people over it.

Not the atheist pp, but anytime anyone posts on DCUM, they are not purporting to be "expert." They are merely explaining their view and what they think is the view of the majority who act as they do. The vast majority of Muslim women do not care to explain any act they do in the name of their religion to you. And if you keep peppering them with inane questions, they will simply walk away. I guarantee you that. I was kind enough to give you a Muslim woman's perspective. You don't understand it? You don't like it? It's okay. You don't need to. By continuing on this thread, you've merely succeeded in establishing one point: that you sure as heck hate women who wear hijab and can't seem to accept that many Muslim women want to wear it. I don't wear hijab. I took it off after 9/11 because I worried for my safety. But I am disturbed by your fervent desire for other Muslim women to unveil. So much so that I may choose to put it back on. Thank you for helping me to realize that it's important to not allow non Muslims to influence any of my religious behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you. I certainly don't plan on wearing a hijab and am grateful that I don't have to in the US in order not to be thought of as an immoral/promiscuous person.

I am interested in figuring out what women in the Muslim world think about the hijab and this thread has told me that there is far from uniformity of opinion for Muslim women. I am "cheering on" the side that finds this practice objectionable as a societal requirement. I admit that contingent currently seems to be on the losing side of the debate in the Muslim world.

That being said, like other posters, I defend a hijabi's right to wear the veil in the US should she choose to do so.

Are you? Every time a Muslim woman chimed in to explain her reasons for wearing the hijab, you (or other posters who think like you) attempted to dissect her reasoning, argue with her and do everything in your power to prove her wrong. You weren't interested in her reasons. You were interested in telling her she's wrong.

Different PP here. You're seeing our frustration. We're looking for explanations that make sense to us. I know your explanations make sense to many Muslims, but you're not talking to Muslims. You're talking to Western women.

If you don't want to talk to Western women, don't come on DCUM. You apparently expect us to accept your explanations at face value, to say "you're right, my hair is nothing but a sexual weapon, and leaving it uncovered will lead to STDs and higher divorce rates than in the Middle East." But we reject this thinking as sexist, the Quran doesn't mention covering hair, and divorce rates in Muslim countries are actually high (also, young brides and polygamy). So we're looking for something better. If you have a reason that isn't sexist, oppressive, and actually out of step with the Quran, I guarantee most of us will slap ourselves on the forehead and say, "Oh, that makes sense!"

And you will not find it in Islamic practice, my dear. Thats why you are a non Muslim and Muslims retain their faith. Move on now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you. I certainly don't plan on wearing a hijab and am grateful that I don't have to in the US in order not to be thought of as an immoral/promiscuous person.

I am interested in figuring out what women in the Muslim world think about the hijab and this thread has told me that there is far from uniformity of opinion for Muslim women. I am "cheering on" the side that finds this practice objectionable as a societal requirement. I admit that contingent currently seems to be on the losing side of the debate in the Muslim world.

That being said, like other posters, I defend a hijabi's right to wear the veil in the US should she choose to do so.

Are you? Every time a Muslim woman chimed in to explain her reasons for wearing the hijab, you (or other posters who think like you) attempted to dissect her reasoning, argue with her and do everything in your power to prove her wrong. You weren't interested in her reasons. You were interested in telling her she's wrong.

Different PP here. You're seeing our frustration. We're looking for explanations that make sense to us. I know your explanations make sense to many Muslims, but you're not talking to Muslims. You're talking to Western women.

If you don't want to talk to Western women, don't come on DCUM. You apparently expect us to accept your explanations at face value, to say "you're right, my hair is nothing but a sexual weapon, and leaving it uncovered will lead to STDs and higher divorce rates than in the Middle East." But we reject this thinking as sexist, the Quran doesn't mention covering hair, and divorce rates in Muslim countries are actually high (also, young brides and polygamy). So we're looking for something better. If you have a reason that isn't sexist, oppressive, and actually out of step with the Quran, I guarantee most of us will slap ourselves on the forehead and say, "Oh, that makes sense!"

And you will not find it in Islamic practice, my dear. Thats why you are a non Muslim and Muslims retain their faith. Move on now.

Faith in what? in some entity that obviously places women in a subservient role?

Faith is a cop out. Because you have no reason for covering, you use the excuse of faith. But if your holy book is all that and a bag of chips, it would state that women must cover (anywhere from hijab to burqa). But it doesn't. Initially, veiling was associated with high status. You see that in parts of Europe. My friend, who comes from a very high-ranking family in Spain, showed me very ornate scarves worn by her aunts and grandmothers. Later it was a way to set them apart from other religions.

So unless you're sporting a very chic and expensive scarf for a night on the town, there is no real need for one - unless, of course, you prefer to be dominated by your tather, husband, brothers and uncles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not the atheist PP, but there are no "follow up" questions that merit further discussion. Arguments such as men wear their hair long, men beautify their hair too ventures into the stupid territory. Sorry, but it just does. And I'm not going to entertain such ridiculous arguments.

Actually these are pretty good questions. Walk into any high school or office or watch men on the Metro tomorrow morning, and ask yourself whether the men there care about their hair enough to style it. Of course they do. You just don't want to contemplate this possibility, and that's why you call the questions ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not the atheist PP, but there are no "follow up" questions that merit further discussion. Arguments such as men wear their hair long, men beautify their hair too ventures into the stupid territory. Sorry, but it just does. And I'm not going to entertain such ridiculous arguments.

Actually these are pretty good questions. Walk into any high school or office or watch men on the Metro tomorrow morning, and ask yourself whether the men there care about their hair enough to style it. Of course they do. You just don't want to contemplate this possibility, and that's why you call the questions ridiculous.

They actually ARE ridiculous and are nothing but an exercise in sophistry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you. I certainly don't plan on wearing a hijab and am grateful that I don't have to in the US in order not to be thought of as an immoral/promiscuous person.

I am interested in figuring out what women in the Muslim world think about the hijab and this thread has told me that there is far from uniformity of opinion for Muslim women. I am "cheering on" the side that finds this practice objectionable as a societal requirement. I admit that contingent currently seems to be on the losing side of the debate in the Muslim world.

That being said, like other posters, I defend a hijabi's right to wear the veil in the US should she choose to do so.

Are you? Every time a Muslim woman chimed in to explain her reasons for wearing the hijab, you (or other posters who think like you) attempted to dissect her reasoning, argue with her and do everything in your power to prove her wrong. You weren't interested in her reasons. You were interested in telling her she's wrong.

Different PP here. You're seeing our frustration. We're looking for explanations that make sense to us. I know your explanations make sense to many Muslims, but you're not talking to Muslims. You're talking to Western women.

If you don't want to talk to Western women, don't come on DCUM. You apparently expect us to accept your explanations at face value, to say "you're right, my hair is nothing but a sexual weapon, and leaving it uncovered will lead to STDs and higher divorce rates than in the Middle East." But we reject this thinking as sexist, the Quran doesn't mention covering hair, and divorce rates in Muslim countries are actually high (also, young brides and polygamy). So we're looking for something better. If you have a reason that isn't sexist, oppressive, and actually out of step with the Quran, I guarantee most of us will slap ourselves on the forehead and say, "Oh, that makes sense!"

And you will not find it in Islamic practice, my dear. Thats why you are a non Muslim and Muslims retain their faith. Move on now.

What's with the arrogance?

Are you telling us that they are no arguments that will make sense to Western people because they are Western before they are people? In other words there is no commonality among people in rational thought? There are a number of great Islamic thinkers I hear spinning in their graves right now. And no, they would not have accepted that Muslims think nonlinearly while Westerners think linearly.

Again, do you have a reason for the hijab that does not reduce Islam to a mere dress and conduct code for women? That is not a religion. I for one happen to think that Islam is among the greatest religions and am chagrined that and others like you maintain it is all about--only about--what women wear and have reduced it to a state where not one iota of spirituality remains, just this rule and that rule and any rule that any half-crazed preacher can issue a fatwa on and disseminate through the internet.