Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you guys so concerned with Muslims women wearing headscarf? Do you fear them? I believe it's their rights to wear whatever they want.

Why are they considered backward when they choose to cover themselves. Covering your body with less and less clothing are backwards to me because it seems that people wants to be like in cavemen yesteryear.

Just because these Muslim women against hijab, doesn't mean that they representing other muslims's opinion in why they wear hijab.

We should be judged by our character and ability, and not by the way we clothes.

If only it were a choice for most women. But most are forced by the men in their lives to wear it.

You can argue that is done for free will and choice, but there is nothing you can say to convince me that a woman "chooses" to cover herself and daughters from head to toe to wrist in heavy black fabric with only her face showing on the beaches of Hawaii, while her husband and sons frolic in board shorts, or "chooses" to cover herself completely, including her face, during a humid, upper 90 degree sweltering August day.

You're judging and stereotyping someone negatively without even knowing her. There's never any good in that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guess what guys, a religious observance can be a very real way for someone to feel closer to God AND it can ultimately have a negative impact on women and the society at large. I have no doubt that women who wear the hijab feel that they are glorifying God when they do so. HOWEVER, it is still fair to look at the practice critically and determine that it ultimately undermines women. Just go to a country where most of the women wear hijab and see how it works for yourself. I have.

People in the Muslim world have been scared to criticize any religious practice no matter how backwards it seemed to them personally for a long, long time. That's how we have so many Muslims who joined extremist mosques. That's why so many countries went from almost no women wearing hijab, to some women wearing hijab, to most women wearing hijab, to women taking on more extreme forms of covering up like the niqab, which was unknown decades ago. It was an evolution that involved the silencing of more moderate Muslims. Read any modern history of the region. And the people putting forward THEIR version of Islam had a lot of money, courtesy of US, to push their ideas. It's about DAMN TIME that someone question these practices and disagree with them.

You can disagree with this all you want, but it's not your business what other women decide to do with their bodies. Not your business when they expose it, not your business when they cover it.

It absolutely is my business. It is my business when I go to the country where my parents where born, where my family still lives, and am harassed and yelled at in the street because men have internalized the idea that women are the ones responsible for their arousal, and that a woman who is not covered is "asking" for it. It is my business that in a place where my mother used to walk about in a miniskirt without being bothered, no women, veiled or not, can walk without being bothered. It is my business when my daughter see families where the woman is dressed head to toe in a tent and the man is in shorts, looking comfy. What should I tell her about this? What message is that sending to other women, to young kids? Deny it all you want, but our clothes send a powerful message to the people around us. The way we dress is a powerful form of self-expression, and the article is arguing that in this instance, it is sending a political message, not just a personal religious one. I agree with the article because it reflects what I have seen and read. You can disagree all you want.

No it isn't.

The solution to men yelling is not to uncover all women by force.

Tell your daughter what you like. The world will not conform to your desire. If Muslim women find the right words for the daughters watching cleavages and bum shorts, then I'm sure you can find something to say to yours.

Your freedom to agree or disagree with the way other women dress ends at your own body. You don't like to cover, then don't cover. But it's not in your hand to uncover others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you guys so concerned with Muslims women wearing headscarf? Do you fear them? I believe it's their rights to wear whatever they want.

Why are they considered backward when they choose to cover themselves. Covering your body with less and less clothing are backwards to me because it seems that people wants to be like in cavemen yesteryear.

Just because these Muslim women against hijab, doesn't mean that they representing other muslims's opinion in why they wear hijab.

We should be judged by our character and ability, and not by the way we clothes.

If only it were a choice for most women. But most are forced by the men in their lives to wear it.

You can argue that is done for free will and choice, but there is nothing you can say to convince me that a woman "chooses" to cover herself and daughters from head to toe to wrist in heavy black fabric with only her face showing on the beaches of Hawaii, while her husband and sons frolic in board shorts, or "chooses" to cover herself completely, including her face, during a humid, upper 90 degree sweltering August day.

You're judging and stereotyping someone negatively without even knowing her. There's never any good in that.

Sometime it is OK to judge. We have this idea that we can never be "judgmental" no matter how batshit insane someone is acting. But you know what, that's wrong. Sometimes we should judge. It is not wrong to ask "Why is she doing that? That seems crazy." It is not like we are accosting hijab-wearing women in the street. There are people who do that, and that is wrong, but we should not un-questioningly accept every single thing that everyone does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guess what guys, a religious observance can be a very real way for someone to feel closer to God AND it can ultimately have a negative impact on women and the society at large. I have no doubt that women who wear the hijab feel that they are glorifying God when they do so. HOWEVER, it is still fair to look at the practice critically and determine that it ultimately undermines women. Just go to a country where most of the women wear hijab and see how it works for yourself. I have.

People in the Muslim world have been scared to criticize any religious practice no matter how backwards it seemed to them personally for a long, long time. That's how we have so many Muslims who joined extremist mosques. That's why so many countries went from almost no women wearing hijab, to some women wearing hijab, to most women wearing hijab, to women taking on more extreme forms of covering up like the niqab, which was unknown decades ago. It was an evolution that involved the silencing of more moderate Muslims. Read any modern history of the region. And the people putting forward THEIR version of Islam had a lot of money, courtesy of US, to push their ideas. It's about DAMN TIME that someone question these practices and disagree with them.

You can disagree with this all you want, but it's not your business what other women decide to do with their bodies. Not your business when they expose it, not your business when they cover it.

It absolutely is my business. It is my business when I go to the country where my parents where born, where my family still lives, and am harassed and yelled at in the street because men have internalized the idea that women are the ones responsible for their arousal, and that a woman who is not covered is "asking" for it. It is my business that in a place where my mother used to walk about in a miniskirt without being bothered, no women, veiled or not, can walk without being bothered. It is my business when my daughter see families where the woman is dressed head to toe in a tent and the man is in shorts, looking comfy. What should I tell her about this? What message is that sending to other women, to young kids? Deny it all you want, but our clothes send a powerful message to the people around us. The way we dress is a powerful form of self-expression, and the article is arguing that in this instance, it is sending a political message, not just a personal religious one. I agree with the article because it reflects what I have seen and read. You can disagree all you want.

No it isn't.

The solution to men yelling is not to uncover all women by force.

Tell your daughter what you like. The world will not conform to your desire. If Muslim women find the right words for the daughters watching cleavages and bum shorts, then I'm sure you can find something to say to yours.

Your freedom to agree or disagree with the way other women dress ends at your own body. You don't like to cover, then don't cover. But it's not in your hand to uncover others.

Who said I want to uncover women by force? YOU are putting those words in my mouth. YOU are placing aggression and control where there is none. YOU want to control what I say. I have a choice with whether I disagree with what I feel is a toxic practice. I DO have the freedom to disagree with this. You cannot silence me. I want the culture to change. The world does not conform to my desire, but that does not mean that I have to accept the degradation of women in the name of religion without question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guess what guys, a religious observance can be a very real way for someone to feel closer to God AND it can ultimately have a negative impact on women and the society at large. I have no doubt that women who wear the hijab feel that they are glorifying God when they do so. HOWEVER, it is still fair to look at the practice critically and determine that it ultimately undermines women. Just go to a country where most of the women wear hijab and see how it works for yourself. I have.

People in the Muslim world have been scared to criticize any religious practice no matter how backwards it seemed to them personally for a long, long time. That's how we have so many Muslims who joined extremist mosques. That's why so many countries went from almost no women wearing hijab, to some women wearing hijab, to most women wearing hijab, to women taking on more extreme forms of covering up like the niqab, which was unknown decades ago. It was an evolution that involved the silencing of more moderate Muslims. Read any modern history of the region. And the people putting forward THEIR version of Islam had a lot of money, courtesy of US, to push their ideas. It's about DAMN TIME that someone question these practices and disagree with them.

You can disagree with this all you want, but it's not your business what other women decide to do with their bodies. Not your business when they expose it, not your business when they cover it.

It absolutely is my business. It is my business when I go to the country where my parents where born, where my family still lives, and am harassed and yelled at in the street because men have internalized the idea that women are the ones responsible for their arousal, and that a woman who is not covered is "asking" for it. It is my business that in a place where my mother used to walk about in a miniskirt without being bothered, no women, veiled or not, can walk without being bothered. It is my business when my daughter see families where the woman is dressed head to toe in a tent and the man is in shorts, looking comfy. What should I tell her about this? What message is that sending to other women, to young kids? Deny it all you want, but our clothes send a powerful message to the people around us. The way we dress is a powerful form of self-expression, and the article is arguing that in this instance, it is sending a political message, not just a personal religious one. I agree with the article because it reflects what I have seen and read. You can disagree all you want.

No it isn't.

The solution to men yelling is not to uncover all women by force.

Tell your daughter what you like. The world will not conform to your desire. If Muslim women find the right words for the daughters watching cleavages and bum shorts, then I'm sure you can find something to say to yours.

Your freedom to agree or disagree with the way other women dress ends at your own body. You don't like to cover, then don't cover. But it's not in your hand to uncover others.

Who said I want to uncover women by force? YOU are putting those words in my mouth. YOU are placing aggression and control where there is none. YOU want to control what I say. I have a choice with whether I disagree with what I feel is a toxic practice. I DO have the freedom to disagree with this. You cannot silence me. I want the culture to change. The world does not conform to my desire, but that does not mean that I have to accept the degradation of women in the name of religion without question.

That's like saying that you personally will not grab women going to the abortion clinics, but you want the culture to change to the point where there won't be any clinics. You are free to question whatever, but you aren't stopping at questioning. You want to limit the choices of others, and shape all women into what is acceptable to you.

How can I possibly control what you say? That's crazy. You are an internet bozo, just like me. You can say what you like. And I can call it crazy and restrictive if I like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
That's like saying that you personally will not grab women going to the abortion clinics, but you want the culture to change to the point where there won't be any clinics. You are free to question whatever, but you aren't stopping at questioning. You want to limit the choices of others, and shape all women into what is acceptable to you.

How can I possibly control what you say? That's crazy. You are an internet bozo, just like me. You can say what you like. And I can call it crazy and restrictive if I like.

I am pro-choice, but I actually do not understand your point. Do you see where your analogy fails? Do you think people who are against abortion should not want the culture to change? That makes no sense, they have every right to want the culture to change and to work towards their goal. They have a right to their conscience and I have a right to mine.

I do not even understand what we are arguing about. You think I literally want to force women to stop wearing hijabs, and I do not think I said anything to lead you to that. I want a return to a time where women did not feel like making themselves less visible was a way of worshipping God. I'm not going to limit anyone's choices. Are you saying that I should not have any opinion on hijabs? That having an opinion is "crazy and restrictive?" Because yeah, that's not going to happen. Call it what you like. I think they are degrading, and I will continue to express my opinion, as you do yours.

[Anonymous]

Of course anyone has the right to wear or not wear a headscarf.

The question issue is the dissemination of the view that women must wear a hijab in order to be in compliance with the beliefs of Islam and whether that is part of political Islam or some correct reading of the requirements of Islam.

This is what disturbs me.

I have been on many Islamic websites. I cannot purport to have been on them all as there are thousands but pretty much every one of them says a woman must wear a hijab to be a good Muslim. The article posted by OP disputes that and they have plenty of scholarly people who agree. In addition, we have the evidence that the hijab as it is worn today is of very recent origin.

So, were the grandmothers of the current headscarf wearers who went without hijab but fasted and prayed and fed the poor and did other acts of charity bad Muslims? Absolutely no one at the time, which was not so long ago, believed this to be the case and people, religious and nonreligious alike, admired the quiet and nonshowy faith of these admirable women. But according to these websites, these women were not good Muslims even though in terms of spirituality and inner goodness they would almost always come out ahead of any current hijab wearer.

So in today's Islamist climate, it is not really a choice for a woman who feels very attached to her faith to wear a headscarf or not. Because everywhere disseminated is the view that a woman who does not wear a headscarf is not a Muslim of good standing. This was definitely not the case in the past because, very simply, apart from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries, no one saw wearing a headscarf as having anything to do with religion. Many women in rural areas wore a thin veil over their hair without the least bit of fastidiousness about wisps of hair showing, but this was simply traditional dress and no one equated it with religion as it was worn equally by both Muslim and Christian women in the countrside.

Moreover it is not a choice in certain countries today. What I find interesting is that almost the first thing that is done when Islamists come to power in a country is to pass laws requiring women to wear hijab (and lower the age at women can marry, but that is another discussion). If they were truly religiously Islamic, the first thing they would do is require zakat--that people contribute to the poor--but one simply doesn't see that. Rather, political Islam is way more preoccupied with subjugating women by making them cover and making it legally possible for parents to marry off girls who may not even be in their teens.

These leaders are not stupid. They know the male populations, especially the ones in their twenties, feel powerless against their current governments and are frustrated in light of their very high unemployment rates. The exploit their sense of emasculation by promising when they come to power they will restore their sense of worth by giving them complete dominion and control over women who will be forced to be veiled. The young men following them are not as smart because they are so satisfied with that pitiful bit of control over women they ignore that these regimes bring them no closer to participating in the running of the country or experiencing true economic opportunity. This leaves the power of the country, as well as the economic fruits of that power, safely in the hands of these cynical political Islamist leaders.

This is how the hijab is part of political Islam and why extremists promote it as the sixth pillar of Islam.

[Anonymous]

What about Iran? Same as Egypt. Few women covered until they were forced to by the people in charge. I find it hard to believe that all of a sudden women "chose" to be covered because of a regime change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about Iran? Same as Egypt. Few women covered until they were forced to by the people in charge. I find it hard to believe that all of a sudden women "chose" to be covered because of a regime change.

Women are not "forced" to cover in Egypt, at least not by law. There is a lot of social pressure, however.

[Anonymous]

To the people who say, "Why do you care?" I answer: Because of that student in a public school in Virginia who was FORCED to put on a hijab, over her protests, for a GEOGRAPHY class. The teacher (well-intentioned, I guess) had no clue that the hijab is for some people a sign of oppression. Just wear it! For fun! To show you're not prejudiced! We'll put your picture in a yearbook!
Tell women in Iran, in Saudi Arabia, in Kuwait and elsewhere that it's just for fun. THAT'S why I care. As a feminist, and as someone with a daughter in a public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the people who say, "Why do you care?" I answer: Because of that student in a public school in Virginia who was FORCED to put on a hijab, over her protests, for a GEOGRAPHY class. The teacher (well-intentioned, I guess) had no clue that the hijab is for some people a sign of oppression. Just wear it! For fun! To show you're not prejudiced! We'll put your picture in a yearbook!
Tell women in Iran, in Saudi Arabia, in Kuwait and elsewhere that it's just for fun. THAT'S why I care. As a feminist, and as someone with a daughter in a public school.

At least, please do not judge the Muslim women in USA for wearing their headscarf. Life is already hard as it is, they don't need other people to butt in, especially from non muslim, no matter how understanding you are.

This is not feminist issue. If you have issue with one person, take it directly to her, don't stereotyping the rest of them.

Best if you ask the Muslim women with headscarf directly why they wear headscarf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the people who say, "Why do you care?" I answer: Because of that student in a public school in Virginia who was FORCED to put on a hijab, over her protests, for a GEOGRAPHY class. The teacher (well-intentioned, I guess) had no clue that the hijab is for some people a sign of oppression. Just wear it! For fun! To show you're not prejudiced! We'll put your picture in a yearbook!
Tell women in Iran, in Saudi Arabia, in Kuwait and elsewhere that it's just for fun. THAT'S why I care. As a feminist, and as someone with a daughter in a public school.

At least, please do not judge the Muslim women in USA for wearing their headscarf. Life is already hard as it is, they don't need other people to butt in, especially from non muslim, no matter how understanding you are.

This is not feminist issue. If you have issue with one person, take it directly to her, don't stereotyping the rest of them.

Best if you ask the Muslim women with headscarf directly why they wear headscarf.

It is certainly a feminist issue. We bicker on this site about SAHM and WOHM, as a feminist issue. Certainly, we should bicker about covering, unless discussion about Islam is that dangerous. Is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guess what guys, a religious observance can be a very real way for someone to feel closer to God AND it can ultimately have a negative impact on women and the society at large. I have no doubt that women who wear the hijab feel that they are glorifying God when they do so. HOWEVER, it is still fair to look at the practice critically and determine that it ultimately undermines women. Just go to a country where most of the women wear hijab and see how it works for yourself. I have.

People in the Muslim world have been scared to criticize any religious practice no matter how backwards it seemed to them personally for a long, long time. That's how we have so many Muslims who joined extremist mosques. That's why so many countries went from almost no women wearing hijab, to some women wearing hijab, to most women wearing hijab, to women taking on more extreme forms of covering up like the niqab, which was unknown decades ago. It was an evolution that involved the silencing of more moderate Muslims. Read any modern history of the region. And the people putting forward THEIR version of Islam had a lot of money, courtesy of US, to push their ideas. It's about DAMN TIME that someone question these practices and disagree with them.

You can disagree with this all you want, but it's not your business what other women decide to do with their bodies. Not your business when they expose it, not your business when they cover it.

It absolutely is my business. It is my business when I go to the country where my parents where born, where my family still lives, and am harassed and yelled at in the street because men have internalized the idea that women are the ones responsible for their arousal, and that a woman who is not covered is "asking" for it. It is my business that in a place where my mother used to walk about in a miniskirt without being bothered, no women, veiled or not, can walk without being bothered. It is my business when my daughter see families where the woman is dressed head to toe in a tent and the man is in shorts, looking comfy. What should I tell her about this? What message is that sending to other women, to young kids? Deny it all you want, but our clothes send a powerful message to the people around us. The way we dress is a powerful form of self-expression, and the article is arguing that in this instance, it is sending a political message, not just a personal religious one. I agree with the article because it reflects what I have seen and read. You can disagree all you want.

Well said. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course anyone has the right to wear or not wear a headscarf.

The question issue is the dissemination of the view that women must wear a hijab in order to be in compliance with the beliefs of Islam and whether that is part of political Islam or some correct reading of the requirements of Islam.

This is what disturbs me.

I have been on many Islamic websites. I cannot purport to have been on them all as there are thousands but pretty much every one of them says a woman must wear a hijab to be a good Muslim. The article posted by OP disputes that and they have plenty of scholarly people who agree. In addition, we have the evidence that the hijab as it is worn today is of very recent origin.

So, were the grandmothers of the current headscarf wearers who went without hijab but fasted and prayed and fed the poor and did other acts of charity bad Muslims? Absolutely no one at the time, which was not so long ago, believed this to be the case and people, religious and nonreligious alike, admired the quiet and nonshowy faith of these admirable women. But according to these websites, these women were not good Muslims even though in terms of spirituality and inner goodness they would almost always come out ahead of any current hijab wearer.



So in today's Islamist climate, it is not really a choice for a woman who feels very attached to her faith to wear a headscarf or not. Because everywhere disseminated is the view that a woman who does not wear a headscarf is not a Muslim of good standing. This was definitely not the case in the past because, very simply, apart from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries, no one saw wearing a headscarf as having anything to do with religion. Many women in rural areas wore a thin veil over their hair without the least bit of fastidiousness about wisps of hair showing, but this was simply traditional dress and no one equated it with religion as it was worn equally by both Muslim and Christian women in the countrside.

Moreover it is not a choice in certain countries today. What I find interesting is that almost the first thing that is done when Islamists come to power in a country is to pass laws requiring women to wear hijab (and lower the age at women can marry, but that is another discussion). If they were truly religiously Islamic, the first thing they would do is require zakat--that people contribute to the poor--but one simply doesn't see that. Rather, political Islam is way more preoccupied with subjugating women by making them cover and making it legally possible for parents to marry off girls who may not even be in their teens.

These leaders are not stupid. They know the male populations, especially the ones in their twenties, feel powerless against their current governments and are frustrated in light of their very high unemployment rates. The exploit their sense of emasculation by promising when they come to power they will restore their sense of worth by giving them complete dominion and control over women who will be forced to be veiled. The young men following them are not as smart because they are so satisfied with that pitiful bit of control over women they ignore that these regimes bring them no closer to participating in the running of the country or experiencing true economic opportunity. This leaves the power of the country, as well as the economic fruits of that power, safely in the hands of these cynical political Islamist leaders.

This is how the hijab is part of political Islam and why extremists promote it as the sixth pillar of Islam.

Wow. This is a great post. Thank you for sharing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course anyone has the right to wear or not wear a headscarf.

The question issue is the dissemination of the view that women must wear a hijab in order to be in compliance with the beliefs of Islam and whether that is part of political Islam or some correct reading of the requirements of Islam.

This is what disturbs me.

I have been on many Islamic websites. I cannot purport to have been on them all as there are thousands but pretty much every one of them says a woman must wear a hijab to be a good Muslim. The article posted by OP disputes that and they have plenty of scholarly people who agree. In addition, we have the evidence that the hijab as it is worn today is of very recent origin.

So, were the grandmothers of the current headscarf wearers who went without hijab but fasted and prayed and fed the poor and did other acts of charity bad Muslims? Absolutely no one at the time, which was not so long ago, believed this to be the case and people, religious and nonreligious alike, admired the quiet and nonshowy faith of these admirable women. But according to these websites, these women were not good Muslims even though in terms of spirituality and inner goodness they would almost always come out ahead of any current hijab wearer.



So in today's Islamist climate, it is not really a choice for a woman who feels very attached to her faith to wear a headscarf or not. Because everywhere disseminated is the view that a woman who does not wear a headscarf is not a Muslim of good standing. This was definitely not the case in the past because, very simply, apart from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries, no one saw wearing a headscarf as having anything to do with religion. Many women in rural areas wore a thin veil over their hair without the least bit of fastidiousness about wisps of hair showing, but this was simply traditional dress and no one equated it with religion as it was worn equally by both Muslim and Christian women in the countrside.

Moreover it is not a choice in certain countries today. What I find interesting is that almost the first thing that is done when Islamists come to power in a country is to pass laws requiring women to wear hijab (and lower the age at women can marry, but that is another discussion). If they were truly religiously Islamic, the first thing they would do is require zakat--that people contribute to the poor--but one simply doesn't see that. Rather, political Islam is way more preoccupied with subjugating women by making them cover and making it legally possible for parents to marry off girls who may not even be in their teens.

These leaders are not stupid. They know the male populations, especially the ones in their twenties, feel powerless against their current governments and are frustrated in light of their very high unemployment rates. The exploit their sense of emasculation by promising when they come to power they will restore their sense of worth by giving them complete dominion and control over women who will be forced to be veiled. The young men following them are not as smart because they are so satisfied with that pitiful bit of control over women they ignore that these regimes bring them no closer to participating in the running of the country or experiencing true economic opportunity. This leaves the power of the country, as well as the economic fruits of that power, safely in the hands of these cynical political Islamist leaders.

This is how the hijab is part of political Islam and why extremists promote it as the sixth pillar of Islam.

Wow. This is a great post. Thank you for sharing.

+1,000,000