New Year Eve's Coordinated Sexual Assault Attacks in Cologne

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Germans not realize that it takes decades - even centuries for cultures to change ingrained attitudes? Women's rights as they are known in the West came as the result of centuries of struggle. Why do European immigration advocates think that acceptable attitudes to women and other progressive attitudes can be taught to people from societies where none of these are present. I defies logic to think that Germans and Swedes are under the impression that centuries of attitudes towards women's position in society and sexual attitudes of males can be changed with a weekend course in European culture.

Europe's liberals are simply rolling back decades of struggle.

Sweden has nothing to brag about. It has some of the highest levels of abuse against women in the world.

We've already been through this: Sweden had one of the highest rates of REPORTING sexual abuse in the world. And good for Sweden.

Signed, one of those women He Who Must Not Be Named refers to who has been watching the thread but was reluctant to participate, until now, because of the abuse--from him. I think many of these men DO have cultural biases against women, and think they see Western women as even less. While the Quran doesn't explicitly require covering hair let alone the face or chadors/burquas, just modesty, in recent decades political Islam has emphasized the veil in a way that emphasizes a woman's purity as her most important virtue, and I think that's a problem. OK, blast away at me....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:German law regarding crime and asylum seekers:

http://aranews.net/2016/01/germany-divided-over-expulsion-of-convicted-asylum-seekers/

Is it "better" than our laws?

What it means is that Syrian refugees cannot be deported, not by Germany or by any other country, including the US.

Yet Obama's deporting Spanish speaking criminals right now, isn't he?

People get deported all the time for crimes.

Refugees can still be put on trial and sentenced to jail for crimes or detained in camps if they are a threat to the general population.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, when you start hurling vulgarities at a whole bunch of different women that are genuinely very offended and distressed at what you said, and who have not said the same vulgarities and some who even apologized to you earlier when you complained of being picked on, it's time to reconsider and at least try to see where they are coming from. Throwing f bombs is just a new low level.

No it was not "a whole bunch of different women". It was one poster -- apparently female -- who attacked me twice and who was clearly seeking a fight. I've been trying to see where a lot of different posters (I never know their sex for sure) are coming from. There are even women who are reluctant to join this thread because of the reactions any opinion that is a little bit different provokes. A man is an easy target. Instead of responding to ideas I am presenting, just pick a phrase that doesn't meet your approval. That's the easy way of avoiding a discussion and "winning" a debate. Of course that pisses me off.

in your eyes on so many levels as well
Poor, poor men!


In this case, I'd defend any woman's right to pick a goddamn fight considering that this is a clear case of sexual assault. Every woman has a right to be outraged. What if one of the German women had been your daughter? your wife? your sister? "Oh hon, it's not his fault. He just needs a bit of retraining b/c he's been a victim of culture shock."

Women are victims, and NO class will ever train those animals in Cologne (or any other place for that matter where women are viewed as pieces of meat) to view women as equals.

How PC have your responses been in regard to this matter? Fuck PC, I say. PC keeps the status quo b/c it creates too much fear in people to resurrect the ugly truths about humanity. We've gone too far with PC.

But it was indeed PC of you to bring up classes, right? b/c you feared that we'd go down the "refugee route"

Well there's some truth to how culture shapes our views, right? You'd agree to that.

Yes, we have Universal Declaration on Human Rights. and what stemmed from it - Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women

Article 5 pertains here. - (a)

To modify the social and cultural patterns of conduct of men and women, with a view to achieving the elimination of prejudices and customary and all other practices which are based on the idea of the inferiority or the superiority of either of the sexes or on stereotyped roles for men and women

And the measures agreed upon urge that

". . . States parties effectively to adopt education and public information programmes, which will help eliminate prejudices and current practices that hinder the full operation of the principle of the social equality of women.

which all circles back to your "course" suggestion

So in the meantime, we must continue to make excuses for their behavior (brought on by some cultural clash) while we design modules that train men to keep their penises in their pants and their hands to themselves.

such bullshit!

my main question - Why should a HOST country be responsible for these educational programs? And if these host countries must TRAIN these men to keep their dicks in their pants, isn't there something inherently wrong with this thinking - especially if viewed through a PC lens?

After all, who are we (any host country) to "judge" cultural beliefs? If a man rules the roost in country X, shouldn't we "honor" that?

Hell, I would. Just keep your "men" in your country and away from my enlightened sisters - and brothers, for that matter.

Well, first of all I should warn you that F bombs are apparently frowned upon in this discussion. Though something tells me you will have less critics than I did. I would like to have a discussion with you, but I am not interested in discussing straw men, mischaracterizations, falsehood, and outright lies. If you want to argue with a figment of your imagination, please do it some place else.

I am not the one who suggested classes or first brought them up in the discussion. Classes are not the only option I suggest as a response. Classes were merely something that came up in the discussion and an idea with which I concur. Are you as strongly opposed to the classes regarding sexual assault that are now standard on many US college campuses? Are you similarly opposed to the sexual discrimination training that is required by many US corporations?

I disagree with you that men cannot be reached via education and persuasion. Maybe not all, but some.

I don't think holding all refugees or all members of a religion or all members of an ethnicity responsible for the acts of some is reasonable. Similarly, I don't agree with assigning certain negative characteristics to all members of any of these groups.

I'm not sure why you are bringing up the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, but certainly I agree with it. I'm confused why you seem to be attacking me for supporting ideas that are outlined in it. Are you opposed to the Convention?

I make no excuses for sexual assault by anyone against anyone. At no point have I suggested cultural beliefs shouldn't be judged.

The main point that I've been trying to make since joining this discussion is that there is no disagreement with regard to the crimes and violence committed in Cologne. On the topic of sexual assault, I doubt that my personal views are very different than any of the most fierce women's advocates here. If you want to focus on stoping sexual assaults, I am completely with you. Where I disagree with some here is when this issue is used to oppose refugees or to attack Muslims or Arabs.

Basically, we can work together to oppose and perhaps even prevent sexual assault, or we can fight about refugees. Which seems like the most productive course?

In this case there is a direct link between the massive sexual assaults and he culture of the men. We now know the perps spanned Syria , Afghanistan, Iraq ,
Morocco, Algeria. We know the perps taunted police and many were recent asylum seekers in the country. Some peeps even taunted the police ripping up residency cards and saying Merkel invited us in. There are reports that police feared people would die in the crowd.

You are telling us to ignore the refugee factor in this case of horrific sexual assault. However when the refugee asylum factor is so plainly evident, it just makes you seem as though you first excused their behavior by citing their culture and ignoring the true victims, the women that were brutalized that night. If you were sincere about fighting this type of sexual assault you would definitely take into consideration this clear factor link and the discussion around it until it was disproved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Germans not realize that it takes decades - even centuries for cultures to change ingrained attitudes? Women's rights as they are known in the West came as the result of centuries of struggle. Why do European immigration advocates think that acceptable attitudes to women and other progressive attitudes can be taught to people from societies where none of these are present. I defies logic to think that Germans and Swedes are under the impression that centuries of attitudes towards women's position in society and sexual attitudes of males can be changed with a weekend course in European culture.

Europe's liberals are simply rolling back decades of struggle.

Sweden has nothing to brag about. It has some of the highest levels of abuse against women in the world.

Yes and there are many articles linking the rise of rape in Sweden to ...... Oh.... Immigrant men.

Sweden claims the rise started in 1975 with multiculturalism actually. Sweden's neighbor Denmark only had 7.3 rapes per 100,000 inhabitants compared to 53.2 in Sweden.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, when you start hurling vulgarities at a whole bunch of different women that are genuinely very offended and distressed at what you said, and who have not said the same vulgarities and some who even apologized to you earlier when you complained of being picked on, it's time to reconsider and at least try to see where they are coming from. Throwing f bombs is just a new low level.

No it was not "a whole bunch of different women". It was one poster -- apparently female -- who attacked me twice and who was clearly seeking a fight. I've been trying to see where a lot of different posters (I never know their sex for sure) are coming from. There are even women who are reluctant to join this thread because of the reactions any opinion that is a little bit different provokes. A man is an easy target. Instead of responding to ideas I am presenting, just pick a phrase that doesn't meet your approval. That's the easy way of avoiding a discussion and "winning" a debate. Of course that pisses me off.

in your eyes on so many levels as well
Poor, poor men!


In this case, I'd defend any woman's right to pick a goddamn fight considering that this is a clear case of sexual assault. Every woman has a right to be outraged. What if one of the German women had been your daughter? your wife? your sister? "Oh hon, it's not his fault. He just needs a bit of retraining b/c he's been a victim of culture shock."

Women are victims, and NO class will ever train those animals in Cologne (or any other place for that matter where women are viewed as pieces of meat) to view women as equals.

How PC have your responses been in regard to this matter? Fuck PC, I say. PC keeps the status quo b/c it creates too much fear in people to resurrect the ugly truths about humanity. We've gone too far with PC.

But it was indeed PC of you to bring up classes, right? b/c you feared that we'd go down the "refugee route"

Well there's some truth to how culture shapes our views, right? You'd agree to that.

Yes, we have Universal Declaration on Human Rights. and what stemmed from it - Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women

Article 5 pertains here. - (a)

To modify the social and cultural patterns of conduct of men and women, with a view to achieving the elimination of prejudices and customary and all other practices which are based on the idea of the inferiority or the superiority of either of the sexes or on stereotyped roles for men and women

And the measures agreed upon urge that

". . . States parties effectively to adopt education and public information programmes, which will help eliminate prejudices and current practices that hinder the full operation of the principle of the social equality of women.

which all circles back to your "course" suggestion

So in the meantime, we must continue to make excuses for their behavior (brought on by some cultural clash) while we design modules that train men to keep their penises in their pants and their hands to themselves.

such bullshit!

my main question - Why should a HOST country be responsible for these educational programs? And if these host countries must TRAIN these men to keep their dicks in their pants, isn't there something inherently wrong with this thinking - especially if viewed through a PC lens?

After all, who are we (any host country) to "judge" cultural beliefs? If a man rules the roost in country X, shouldn't we "honor" that?

Hell, I would. Just keep your "men" in your country and away from my enlightened sisters - and brothers, for that matter.

Well, first of all I should warn you that F bombs are apparently frowned upon in this discussion. Though something tells me you will have less critics than I did. I would like to have a discussion with you, but I am not interested in discussing straw men, mischaracterizations, falsehood, and outright lies. If you want to argue with a figment of your imagination, please do it some place else.

I am not the one who suggested classes or first brought them up in the discussion. Classes are not the only option I suggest as a response. Classes were merely something that came up in the discussion and an idea with which I concur. Are you as strongly opposed to the classes regarding sexual assault that are now standard on many US college campuses? Are you similarly opposed to the sexual discrimination training that is required by many US corporations?

I disagree with you that men cannot be reached via education and persuasion. Maybe not all, but some.

I don't think holding all refugees or all members of a religion or all members of an ethnicity responsible for the acts of some is reasonable. Similarly, I don't agree with assigning certain negative characteristics to all members of any of these groups.

I'm not sure why you are bringing up the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, but certainly I agree with it. I'm confused why you seem to be attacking me for supporting ideas that are outlined in it. Are you opposed to the Convention?

I make no excuses for sexual assault by anyone against anyone. At no point have I suggested cultural beliefs shouldn't be judged.

The main point that I've been trying to make since joining this discussion is that there is no disagreement with regard to the crimes and violence committed in Cologne. On the topic of sexual assault, I doubt that my personal views are very different than any of the most fierce women's advocates here. If you want to focus on stoping sexual assaults, I am completely with you. Where I disagree with some here is when this issue is used to oppose refugees or to attack Muslims or Arabs.

Basically, we can work together to oppose and perhaps even prevent sexual assault, or we can fight about refugees. Which seems like the most productive course?

In this case there is a direct link between the massive sexual assaults and he culture of the men. We now know the perps spanned Syria , Afghanistan, Iraq ,
Morocco, Algeria. We know the perps taunted police and many were recent asylum seekers in the country. Some peeps even taunted the police ripping up residency cards and saying Merkel invited us in. There are reports that police feared people would die in the crowd.

You are telling us to ignore the refugee factor in this case of horrific sexual assault. However when the refugee asylum factor is so plainly evident, it just makes you seem as though you first excused their behavior by citing their culture and ignoring the true victims, the women that were brutalized that night. If you were sincere about fighting this type of sexual assault you would definitely take into consideration this clear factor link and the discussion around it until it was disproved.

We also know that the asylum seekers involved were not the rapists.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, when you start hurling vulgarities at a whole bunch of different women that are genuinely very offended and distressed at what you said, and who have not said the same vulgarities and some who even apologized to you earlier when you complained of being picked on, it's time to reconsider and at least try to see where they are coming from. Throwing f bombs is just a new low level.

No it was not "a whole bunch of different women". It was one poster -- apparently female -- who attacked me twice and who was clearly seeking a fight. I've been trying to see where a lot of different posters (I never know their sex for sure) are coming from. There are even women who are reluctant to join this thread because of the reactions any opinion that is a little bit different provokes. A man is an easy target. Instead of responding to ideas I am presenting, just pick a phrase that doesn't meet your approval. That's the easy way of avoiding a discussion and "winning" a debate. Of course that pisses me off.

in your eyes on so many levels as well
Poor, poor men!


In this case, I'd defend any woman's right to pick a goddamn fight considering that this is a clear case of sexual assault. Every woman has a right to be outraged. What if one of the German women had been your daughter? your wife? your sister? "Oh hon, it's not his fault. He just needs a bit of retraining b/c he's been a victim of culture shock."

Women are victims, and NO class will ever train those animals in Cologne (or any other place for that matter where women are viewed as pieces of meat) to view women as equals.

How PC have your responses been in regard to this matter? Fuck PC, I say. PC keeps the status quo b/c it creates too much fear in people to resurrect the ugly truths about humanity. We've gone too far with PC.

But it was indeed PC of you to bring up classes, right? b/c you feared that we'd go down the "refugee route"

Well there's some truth to how culture shapes our views, right? You'd agree to that.

Yes, we have Universal Declaration on Human Rights. and what stemmed from it - Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women

Article 5 pertains here. - (a)

To modify the social and cultural patterns of conduct of men and women, with a view to achieving the elimination of prejudices and customary and all other practices which are based on the idea of the inferiority or the superiority of either of the sexes or on stereotyped roles for men and women

And the measures agreed upon urge that

". . . States parties effectively to adopt education and public information programmes, which will help eliminate prejudices and current practices that hinder the full operation of the principle of the social equality of women.

which all circles back to your "course" suggestion

So in the meantime, we must continue to make excuses for their behavior (brought on by some cultural clash) while we design modules that train men to keep their penises in their pants and their hands to themselves.

such bullshit!

my main question - Why should a HOST country be responsible for these educational programs? And if these host countries must TRAIN these men to keep their dicks in their pants, isn't there something inherently wrong with this thinking - especially if viewed through a PC lens?

After all, who are we (any host country) to "judge" cultural beliefs? If a man rules the roost in country X, shouldn't we "honor" that?

Hell, I would. Just keep your "men" in your country and away from my enlightened sisters - and brothers, for that matter.

Well, first of all I should warn you that F bombs are apparently frowned upon in this discussion. Though something tells me you will have less critics than I did. I would like to have a discussion with you, but I am not interested in discussing straw men, mischaracterizations, falsehood, and outright lies. If you want to argue with a figment of your imagination, please do it some place else.

I am not the one who suggested classes or first brought them up in the discussion. Classes are not the only option I suggest as a response. Classes were merely something that came up in the discussion and an idea with which I concur. Are you as strongly opposed to the classes regarding sexual assault that are now standard on many US college campuses? Are you similarly opposed to the sexual discrimination training that is required by many US corporations?

I disagree with you that men cannot be reached via education and persuasion. Maybe not all, but some.

I don't think holding all refugees or all members of a religion or all members of an ethnicity responsible for the acts of some is reasonable. Similarly, I don't agree with assigning certain negative characteristics to all members of any of these groups.

I'm not sure why you are bringing up the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, but certainly I agree with it. I'm confused why you seem to be attacking me for supporting ideas that are outlined in it. Are you opposed to the Convention?

I make no excuses for sexual assault by anyone against anyone. At no point have I suggested cultural beliefs shouldn't be judged.

The main point that I've been trying to make since joining this discussion is that there is no disagreement with regard to the crimes and violence committed in Cologne. On the topic of sexual assault, I doubt that my personal views are very different than any of the most fierce women's advocates here. If you want to focus on stoping sexual assaults, I am completely with you. Where I disagree with some here is when this issue is used to oppose refugees or to attack Muslims or Arabs.

Basically, we can work together to oppose and perhaps even prevent sexual assault, or we can fight about refugees. Which seems like the most productive course?

The problem here is who the attackers predominantly are. Where are they from? What are their religious/traditional,inherent views on women? Are women generally respected in their cultures? why has the rape culture become so wildly popular in these once relatively safe and peaceful European countries? Unfortunately, you cannot separate the cause and effect relationship between are the two obvious factors at play here. Rapes and sexual attacks have increased exponentially since the influx of refugee/immigrant men from Arab and North African (Muslim) countries. That is a FACT, and cannot be ignored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what were the German men doing while their women were being assaulted ... rallying round the bar for another mug of Dortmunder Union?

Sad to think that this was likely the mindset of the perpetrators; that women who dare to be out without male family escort "had it coming" to them.

Outside bastions of political correctness, women look to the men who love them to protect them from random males sexually assaulting them. [Since they did such a good job of protecting themselves]. Outside of bastions of political correctness, full of preening metrosexuals, men do protect the women they love. But the German men were too busy at whatever they were doing so sweet wife was on her own.

Exactly. Men have become so feminized that they can't protect the women around them. Some serious ass kicking was needed a la the three Americans on the train who took down the man with the gun. Muslim men are not good at one to one combat -- that is why Middle Eastern countries can never have an effective military. They don't aim to shoot someone as it could be their "cousin," thrice removed. They like scatter shot approach to warfare (such as the Muslims who recently shot into the crowd in California). They are too chicken shit to attack a woman individually, so they do it in gangs. If one German man had the sense to kick one of these perps in the balls, it would have made a difference. Never mind a code of conduct for German women, teach German men how to defend women and themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, when you start hurling vulgarities at a whole bunch of different women that are genuinely very offended and distressed at what you said, and who have not said the same vulgarities and some who even apologized to you earlier when you complained of being picked on, it's time to reconsider and at least try to see where they are coming from. Throwing f bombs is just a new low level.

No it was not "a whole bunch of different women". It was one poster -- apparently female -- who attacked me twice and who was clearly seeking a fight. I've been trying to see where a lot of different posters (I never know their sex for sure) are coming from. There are even women who are reluctant to join this thread because of the reactions any opinion that is a little bit different provokes. A man is an easy target. Instead of responding to ideas I am presenting, just pick a phrase that doesn't meet your approval. That's the easy way of avoiding a discussion and "winning" a debate. Of course that pisses me off.

in your eyes on so many levels as well
Poor, poor men!


In this case, I'd defend any woman's right to pick a goddamn fight considering that this is a clear case of sexual assault. Every woman has a right to be outraged. What if one of the German women had been your daughter? your wife? your sister? "Oh hon, it's not his fault. He just needs a bit of retraining b/c he's been a victim of culture shock."

Women are victims, and NO class will ever train those animals in Cologne (or any other place for that matter where women are viewed as pieces of meat) to view women as equals.

How PC have your responses been in regard to this matter? Fuck PC, I say. PC keeps the status quo b/c it creates too much fear in people to resurrect the ugly truths about humanity. We've gone too far with PC.

But it was indeed PC of you to bring up classes, right? b/c you feared that we'd go down the "refugee route"

Well there's some truth to how culture shapes our views, right? You'd agree to that.

Yes, we have Universal Declaration on Human Rights. and what stemmed from it - Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women

Article 5 pertains here. - (a)

To modify the social and cultural patterns of conduct of men and women, with a view to achieving the elimination of prejudices and customary and all other practices which are based on the idea of the inferiority or the superiority of either of the sexes or on stereotyped roles for men and women

And the measures agreed upon urge that

". . . States parties effectively to adopt education and public information programmes, which will help eliminate prejudices and current practices that hinder the full operation of the principle of the social equality of women.

which all circles back to your "course" suggestion

So in the meantime, we must continue to make excuses for their behavior (brought on by some cultural clash) while we design modules that train men to keep their penises in their pants and their hands to themselves.

such bullshit!

my main question - Why should a HOST country be responsible for these educational programs? And if these host countries must TRAIN these men to keep their dicks in their pants, isn't there something inherently wrong with this thinking - especially if viewed through a PC lens?

After all, who are we (any host country) to "judge" cultural beliefs? If a man rules the roost in country X, shouldn't we "honor" that?

Hell, I would. Just keep your "men" in your country and away from my enlightened sisters - and brothers, for that matter.

Well, first of all I should warn you that F bombs are apparently frowned upon in this discussion. Though something tells me you will have less critics than I did. I would like to have a discussion with you, but I am not interested in discussing straw men, mischaracterizations, falsehood, and outright lies. If you want to argue with a figment of your imagination, please do it some place else.

I am not the one who suggested classes or first brought them up in the discussion. Classes are not the only option I suggest as a response. Classes were merely something that came up in the discussion and an idea with which I concur. Are you as strongly opposed to the classes regarding sexual assault that are now standard on many US college campuses? Are you similarly opposed to the sexual discrimination training that is required by many US corporations?

I disagree with you that men cannot be reached via education and persuasion. Maybe not all, but some.

I don't think holding all refugees or all members of a religion or all members of an ethnicity responsible for the acts of some is reasonable. Similarly, I don't agree with assigning certain negative characteristics to all members of any of these groups.

I'm not sure why you are bringing up the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, but certainly I agree with it. I'm confused why you seem to be attacking me for supporting ideas that are outlined in it. Are you opposed to the Convention?

I make no excuses for sexual assault by anyone against anyone. At no point have I suggested cultural beliefs shouldn't be judged.

The main point that I've been trying to make since joining this discussion is that there is no disagreement with regard to the crimes and violence committed in Cologne. On the topic of sexual assault, I doubt that my personal views are very different than any of the most fierce women's advocates here. If you want to focus on stoping sexual assaults, I am completely with you. Where I disagree with some here is when this issue is used to oppose refugees or to attack Muslims or Arabs.

Basically, we can work together to oppose and perhaps even prevent sexual assault, or we can fight about refugees. Which seems like the most productive course?

In this case there is a direct link between the massive sexual assaults and he culture of the men. We now know the perps spanned Syria , Afghanistan, Iraq ,
Morocco, Algeria. We know the perps taunted police and many were recent asylum seekers in the country. Some peeps even taunted the police ripping up residency cards and saying Merkel invited us in. There are reports that police feared people would die in the crowd.

You are telling us to ignore the refugee factor in this case of horrific sexual assault. However when the refugee asylum factor is so plainly evident, it just makes you seem as though you first excused their behavior by citing their culture and ignoring the true victims, the women that were brutalized that night. If you were sincere about fighting this type of sexual assault you would definitely take into consideration this clear factor link and the discussion around it until it was disproved.

We also know that the asylum seekers involved were not the rapists.

You realize that your response does not even make sense.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
In this case there is a direct link between the massive sexual assaults and he culture of the men. We now know the perps spanned Syria , Afghanistan, Iraq ,
Morocco, Algeria. We know the perps taunted police and many were recent asylum seekers in the country. Some peeps even taunted the police ripping up residency cards and saying Merkel invited us in. There are reports that police feared people would die in the crowd.

You are telling us to ignore the refugee factor in this case of horrific sexual assault. However when the refugee asylum factor is so plainly evident, it just makes you seem as though you first excused their behavior by citing their culture and ignoring the true victims, the women that were brutalized that night. If you were sincere about fighting this type of sexual assault you would definitely take into consideration this clear factor link and the discussion around it until it was disproved.

I am not telling you to ignore the refugee factor. I'm just suggesting that you don't blame all refugees for actions by a few. Your idea that we should blame an entire group until "it was disproved" seems backward to me.

I note that you left out of your list of perps the Germans and the American. If you concentrate just on refugees or Arabs, won't the Germans and the American get free rides? Why not focus on the issue of sexual assault and treat them all the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what were the German men doing while their women were being assaulted ... rallying round the bar for another mug of Dortmunder Union?

Sad to think that this was likely the mindset of the perpetrators; that women who dare to be out without male family escort "had it coming" to them.

Outside bastions of political correctness, women look to the men who love them to protect them from random males sexually assaulting them. [Since they did such a good job of protecting themselves]. Outside of bastions of political correctness, full of preening metrosexuals, men do protect the women they love. But the German men were too busy at whatever they were doing so sweet wife was on her own.

Exactly. Men have become so feminized that they can't protect the women around them. Some serious ass kicking was needed a la the three Americans on the train who took down the man with the gun. Muslim men are not good at one to one combat -- that is why Middle Eastern countries can never have an effective military. They don't aim to shoot someone as it could be their "cousin," thrice removed. They like scatter shot approach to warfare (such as the Muslims who recently shot into the crowd in California). They are too chicken shit to attack a woman individually, so they do it in gangs. If one German man had the sense to kick one of these perps in the balls, it would have made a difference. Never mind a code of conduct for German women, teach German men how to defend women and themselves.

In their defense, I do think when confronted with a 1000 men there's little to be done. Even the police were hopelessly outclassed that night.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In this case there is a direct link between the massive sexual assaults and he culture of the men. We now know the perps spanned Syria , Afghanistan, Iraq ,
Morocco, Algeria. We know the perps taunted police and many were recent asylum seekers in the country. Some peeps even taunted the police ripping up residency cards and saying Merkel invited us in. There are reports that police feared people would die in the crowd.

You are telling us to ignore the refugee factor in this case of horrific sexual assault. However when the refugee asylum factor is so plainly evident, it just makes you seem as though you first excused their behavior by citing their culture and ignoring the true victims, the women that were brutalized that night. If you were sincere about fighting this type of sexual assault you would definitely take into consideration this clear factor link and the discussion around it until it was disproved.

I am not telling you to ignore the refugee factor. I'm just suggesting that you don't blame all refugees for actions by a few. Your idea that we should blame an entire group until "it was disproved" seems backward to me.

I note that you left out of your list of perps the Germans and the American. If you concentrate just on refugees or Arabs, won't the Germans and the American get free rides? Why not focus on the issue of sexual assault and treat them all the same?

Yes the German and the American. I am
Interested to know whether they were also of Islamic or North Africa middle east descent. That has implications for policies on assimilation of even second generation migrants of those regions into host countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Germans not realize that it takes decades - even centuries for cultures to change ingrained attitudes? Women's rights as they are known in the West came as the result of centuries of struggle. Why do European immigration advocates think that acceptable attitudes to women and other progressive attitudes can be taught to people from societies where none of these are present. I defies logic to think that Germans and Swedes are under the impression that centuries of attitudes towards women's position in society and sexual attitudes of males can be changed with a weekend course in European culture.

Europe's liberals are simply rolling back decades of struggle.

Sweden has nothing to brag about. It has some of the highest levels of abuse against women in the world.

We've already been through this: Sweden had one of the highest rates of REPORTING sexual abuse in the world. And good for Sweden.

Signed, one of those women He Who Must Not Be Named refers to who has been watching the thread but was reluctant to participate, until now, because of the abuse--from him. I think many of these men DO have cultural biases against women, and think they see Western women as even less. While the Quran doesn't explicitly require covering hair let alone the face or chadors/burquas, just modesty, in recent decades political Islam has emphasized the veil in a way that emphasizes a woman's purity as her most important virtue, and I think that's a problem. OK, blast away at me....

That's true. Of course, even with more stringent reporting rules it might be useful to see who is committing these crimes.

Since 2000, there has only been one research report on immigrant crime. It was done in 2006 by Ann-Christine Hjelm from Karlstads University.

It emerged that in 2002, 85% of those sentenced to at least two years in prison for rape in Svea Hovrätt, a court of appeals, were foreign born or second-generation immigrants.

A 1996 report by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention reached the conclusion that immigrants from North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia) were 23 times as likely to commit rape as Swedish men. The figures for men from Iraq, Bulgaria and Romania were, respectively, 20, 18 and 18. Men from the rest of Africa were 16 times more prone to commit rape; and men from Iran, Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia, 10 times as prone as Swedish men.

So, there you go, looks like both sides are right; Sweden has much more stringent rules for reporting rapes, and immigrants are disproportionately raping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem that keeps coming up is that the men involved were reportedly drunk. That goes counter to the notion that they were Muslim as alcohol is forbidden to Muslims.

Stores are forbidden to sell alcohol to Muslims?

The implication being that Muslims don't have access to alcohol, hence they couldn't possibly have been Muslims because how would they be drunk when they don't have access to alcohol?

I paid half of my rent in Johnny Walker Red to my good Muslim landlord in the Middle East. He couldn't get it, but I could buy it at the commissary.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:The problem here is who the attackers predominantly are. Where are they from? What are their religious/traditional,inherent views on women? Are women generally respected in their cultures? why has the rape culture become so wildly popular in these once relatively safe and peaceful European countries? Unfortunately, you cannot separate the cause and effect relationship between are the two obvious factors at play here. Rapes and sexual attacks have increased exponentially since the influx of refugee/immigrant men from Arab and North African (Muslim) countries. That is a FACT, and cannot be ignored.

Based on the very few details we have about those arrested, most were North African and some were from Syria and Iraq. But, there were three Germans and one American. The answers to your questions are different depending upon which country the men came from, to which social class they belonged, and other factors. Can you point me to the most authoritative source of data that proves what you say is "FACT"? I've been trying to find useful data and only coming up with stuff from clearly anti-Islamic sources.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In this case there is a direct link between the massive sexual assaults and he culture of the men. We now know the perps spanned Syria , Afghanistan, Iraq ,
Morocco, Algeria. We know the perps taunted police and many were recent asylum seekers in the country. Some peeps even taunted the police ripping up residency cards and saying Merkel invited us in. There are reports that police feared people would die in the crowd.

You are telling us to ignore the refugee factor in this case of horrific sexual assault. However when the refugee asylum factor is so plainly evident, it just makes you seem as though you first excused their behavior by citing their culture and ignoring the true victims, the women that were brutalized that night. If you were sincere about fighting this type of sexual assault you would definitely take into consideration this clear factor link and the discussion around it until it was disproved.

I am not telling you to ignore the refugee factor. I'm just suggesting that you don't blame all refugees for actions by a few. Your idea that we should blame an entire group until "it was disproved" seems backward to me.

I note that you left out of your list of perps the Germans and the American. If you concentrate just on refugees or Arabs, won't the Germans and the American get free rides? Why not focus on the issue of sexual assault and treat them all the same?

First it's the numbers. Over 50 percent of the perps were asylum seekers. Yes the Germans and the Americans, that actually has implications for the assimilation of even second generation people from those regions. You need ask to ignore the refugee factor and to focus on sexual assault. I am telling you in this case there is a direct link and you can't address one without he other. Even with this classes thing, if you can't even identify these asylum seekers as needing classes on gender respect then how can you implement hat as a strategy.