New Year Eve's Coordinated Sexual Assault Attacks in Cologne

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem here is who the attackers predominantly are. Where are they from? What are their religious/traditional,inherent views on women? Are women generally respected in their cultures? why has the rape culture become so wildly popular in these once relatively safe and peaceful European countries? Unfortunately, you cannot separate the cause and effect relationship between are the two obvious factors at play here. Rapes and sexual attacks have increased exponentially since the influx of refugee/immigrant men from Arab and North African (Muslim) countries. That is a FACT, and cannot be ignored.

Based on the very few details we have about those arrested, most were North African and some were from Syria and Iraq. But, there were three Germans and one American. The answers to your questions are different depending upon which country the men came from, to which social class they belonged, and other factors. Can you point me to the most authoritative source of data that proves what you say is "FACT"? I've been trying to find useful data and only coming up with stuff from clearly anti-Islamic sources.

All the sources reporting on this have been world
Newspapers. As for the American and Germans, not surprising if they were of middle eastern descent too.

[Anonymous]

To clarify the point about college sexual assault classes. My daughter, a junior, teaches sexual assault classes at her college, which is one of those colleges with some recent high-profile rape cases. DD went through two weeks of training over the summer of 2014.

The "courses" at DD's college are generally a single session of a few hours' length. All incoming freshmen at DD's college have to do it. At DD's college, they take the form of a moderated discussion, lead by 2-3 trained students like DD.

More important, the main topic in these classes is Consent--the importance of both partners consenting, and what "consent" means. If the woman is very drunk, is she capable of understanding and meaning "yes"? There's still a lot of legal grey areas here. (FWIW, the class used to be called "Consent is Sexy" but that's been dropped for the last 2 years because it looked to be sending the wrong messages.)

What this class is *not* is a multi-week instruction in Western attitudes towards sexuality. It's certainly not intended to be a seminar on women's equality, which some of you seem to be suggesting.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem here is who the attackers predominantly are. Where are they from? What are their religious/traditional,inherent views on women? Are women generally respected in their cultures? why has the rape culture become so wildly popular in these once relatively safe and peaceful European countries? Unfortunately, you cannot separate the cause and effect relationship between are the two obvious factors at play here. Rapes and sexual attacks have increased exponentially since the influx of refugee/immigrant men from Arab and North African (Muslim) countries. That is a FACT, and cannot be ignored.

Based on the very few details we have about those arrested, most were North African and some were from Syria and Iraq. But, there were three Germans and one American. The answers to your questions are different depending upon which country the men came from, to which social class they belonged, and other factors. Can you point me to the most authoritative source of data that proves what you say is "FACT"? I've been trying to find useful data and only coming up with stuff from clearly anti-Islamic sources.

If I breakdown what you are saying. You are basically saying I oppose sexual assault, but let's consider factors x, x, and x while ignoring the glaring most obvious one in the room because that could not possibly be the problem at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To clarify the point about college sexual assault classes. My daughter, a junior, teaches sexual assault classes at her college, which is one of those colleges with some recent high-profile rape cases. DD went through two weeks of training over the summer of 2014.

The "courses" at DD's college are generally a single session of a few hours' length. All incoming freshmen at DD's college have to do it. At DD's college, they take the form of a moderated discussion, lead by 2-3 trained students like DD.

More important, the main topic in these classes is Consent--the importance of both partners consenting, and what "consent" means. If the woman is very drunk, is she capable of understanding and meaning "yes"? There's still a lot of legal grey areas here. (FWIW, the class used to be called "Consent is Sexy" but that's been dropped for the last 2 years because it looked to be sending the wrong messages.)

What this class is *not* is a multi-week instruction in Western attitudes towards sexuality. It's certainly not intended to be a seminar on women's equality, which some of you seem to be suggesting.

Off point. The classes referred to are the attempts by some European countries to assimilate the new immigrants by holding classes on western cultural mores and sexual attitudes

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In this case there is a direct link between the massive sexual assaults and he culture of the men. We now know the perps spanned Syria , Afghanistan, Iraq ,
Morocco, Algeria. We know the perps taunted police and many were recent asylum seekers in the country. Some peeps even taunted the police ripping up residency cards and saying Merkel invited us in. There are reports that police feared people would die in the crowd.

You are telling us to ignore the refugee factor in this case of horrific sexual assault. However when the refugee asylum factor is so plainly evident, it just makes you seem as though you first excused their behavior by citing their culture and ignoring the true victims, the women that were brutalized that night. If you were sincere about fighting this type of sexual assault you would definitely take into consideration this clear factor link and the discussion around it until it was disproved.

I am not telling you to ignore the refugee factor. I'm just suggesting that you don't blame all refugees for actions by a few. Your idea that we should blame an entire group until "it was disproved" seems backward to me.

I note that you left out of your list of perps the Germans and the American. If you concentrate just on refugees or Arabs, won't the Germans and the American get free rides? Why not focus on the issue of sexual assault and treat them all the same?

Different poster here.

The fact that many of them were first or second generation German immigrant citizens should be just as much if not more alarming than the asylum seekers being involved.

If they have been in the western world long enough to gain citizenship, and have not been overcome cultural standards that say women are simply property and this type of group behavior is acceptable simply because the women are western, then their inability to assimilate is even scarier.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:To clarify the point about college sexual assault classes. My daughter, a junior, teaches sexual assault classes at her college, which is one of those colleges with some recent high-profile rape cases. DD went through two weeks of training over the summer of 2014.

The "courses" at DD's college are generally a single session of a few hours' length. All incoming freshmen at DD's college have to do it. At DD's college, they take the form of a moderated discussion, lead by 2-3 trained students like DD.

More important, the main topic in these classes is Consent--the importance of both partners consenting, and what "consent" means. If the woman is very drunk, is she capable of understanding and meaning "yes"? There's still a lot of legal grey areas here. (FWIW, the class used to be called "Consent is Sexy" but that's been dropped for the last 2 years because it looked to be sending the wrong messages.)

What this class is *not* is a multi-week instruction in Western attitudes towards sexuality. It's certainly not intended to be a seminar on women's equality, which some of you seem to be suggesting.

I mentioned these courses, but certainly didn't mean to suggest that they were "multi-week instruction in Western attitudes towards sexuality". Rather, that they were educational programs aimed at reducing sexual assault and, as such, demonstrated effectiveness of education. In either your view or your daughter's are these classes effective?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what were the German men doing while their women were being assaulted ... rallying round the bar for another mug of Dortmunder Union?

Sad to think that this was likely the mindset of the perpetrators; that women who dare to be out without male family escort "had it coming" to them.

Outside bastions of political correctness, women look to the men who love them to protect them from random males sexually assaulting them. [Since they did such a good job of protecting themselves]. Outside of bastions of political correctness, full of preening metrosexuals, men do protect the women they love. But the German men were too busy at whatever they were doing so sweet wife was on her own.

Exactly. Men have become so feminized that they can't protect the women around them. Some serious ass kicking was needed a la the three Americans on the train who took down the man with the gun. Muslim men are not good at one to one combat -- that is why Middle Eastern countries can never have an effective military. They don't aim to shoot someone as it could be their "cousin," thrice removed. They like scatter shot approach to warfare (such as the Muslims who recently shot into the crowd in California). They are too chicken shit to attack a woman individually, so they do it in gangs. If one German man had the sense to kick one of these perps in the balls, it would have made a difference. Never mind a code of conduct for German women, teach German men how to defend women and themselves.

Holy carp, are you saying that women shouldn't expect to be able to walk around unaccompanied by her gun-slinging brother or father? Have I just been transplanted to Saudi Arabia?

Not to mention your racist generalizations about cowardice.

What's wrong with you?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In this case there is a direct link between the massive sexual assaults and he culture of the men. We now know the perps spanned Syria , Afghanistan, Iraq ,
Morocco, Algeria. We know the perps taunted police and many were recent asylum seekers in the country. Some peeps even taunted the police ripping up residency cards and saying Merkel invited us in. There are reports that police feared people would die in the crowd.

You are telling us to ignore the refugee factor in this case of horrific sexual assault. However when the refugee asylum factor is so plainly evident, it just makes you seem as though you first excused their behavior by citing their culture and ignoring the true victims, the women that were brutalized that night. If you were sincere about fighting this type of sexual assault you would definitely take into consideration this clear factor link and the discussion around it until it was disproved.

I am not telling you to ignore the refugee factor. I'm just suggesting that you don't blame all refugees for actions by a few. Your idea that we should blame an entire group until "it was disproved" seems backward to me.

I note that you left out of your list of perps the Germans and the American. If you concentrate just on refugees or Arabs, won't the Germans and the American get free rides? Why not focus on the issue of sexual assault and treat them all the same?

Different poster here.

The fact that many of them were first or second generation German immigrant citizens should be just as much if not more alarming than the asylum seekers being involved.

If they have been in the western world long enough to gain citizenship, and have not been overcome cultural standards that say women are simply property and this type of group behavior is acceptable simply because the women are western, then their inability to assimilate is even scarier.

Do we know that Germans and the American were first or second generation? I don't think we have that information. I think we have plenty of other conclusions to which to leap before getting to that one.

[Anonymous]

And even so, for the people that were caught, if over 50% were asylum Seekers and the only factor linking the Americans and Germans to the asylum speakers were their ethnic descent, culture or religion, that makes the link of culture to sexual assault even more damning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In this case there is a direct link between the massive sexual assaults and he culture of the men. We now know the perps spanned Syria , Afghanistan, Iraq ,
Morocco, Algeria. We know the perps taunted police and many were recent asylum seekers in the country. Some peeps even taunted the police ripping up residency cards and saying Merkel invited us in. There are reports that police feared people would die in the crowd.

You are telling us to ignore the refugee factor in this case of horrific sexual assault. However when the refugee asylum factor is so plainly evident, it just makes you seem as though you first excused their behavior by citing their culture and ignoring the true victims, the women that were brutalized that night. If you were sincere about fighting this type of sexual assault you would definitely take into consideration this clear factor link and the discussion around it until it was disproved.

I am not telling you to ignore the refugee factor. I'm just suggesting that you don't blame all refugees for actions by a few. Your idea that we should blame an entire group until "it was disproved" seems backward to me.

I note that you left out of your list of perps the Germans and the American. If you concentrate just on refugees or Arabs, won't the Germans and the American get free rides? Why not focus on the issue of sexual assault and treat them all the same?

Different poster here.

The fact that many of them were first or second generation German immigrant citizens should be just as much if not more alarming than the asylum seekers being involved.

If they have been in the western world long enough to gain citizenship, and have not been overcome cultural standards that say women are simply property and this type of group behavior is acceptable simply because the women are western, then their inability to assimilate is even scarier.

+1

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:And even so, for the people that were caught, if over 50% were asylum Seekers and the only factor linking the Americans and Germans to the asylum speakers were their ethnic descent, culture or religion, that makes the link of culture to sexual assault even more damning.

We now have almost an entire page of posts discussing the heritage of the American and Germans. Can anyone provide a source that says anything about that? I think a lot of you are getting worked up about something that may not be true.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem here is who the attackers predominantly are. Where are they from? What are their religious/traditional,inherent views on women? Are women generally respected in their cultures? why has the rape culture become so wildly popular in these once relatively safe and peaceful European countries? Unfortunately, you cannot separate the cause and effect relationship between are the two obvious factors at play here. Rapes and sexual attacks have increased exponentially since the influx of refugee/immigrant men from Arab and North African (Muslim) countries. That is a FACT, and cannot be ignored.

Based on the very few details we have about those arrested, most were North African and some were from Syria and Iraq. But, there were three Germans and one American. The answers to your questions are different depending upon which country the men came from, to which social class they belonged, and other factors. Can you point me to the most authoritative source of data that proves what you say is "FACT"? I've been trying to find useful data and only coming up with stuff from clearly anti-Islamic sources.

If I breakdown what you are saying. You are basically saying I oppose sexual assault, but let's consider factors x, x, and x while ignoring the glaring most obvious one in the room because that could not possibly be the problem at all.

No, I'm saying that I oppose sexual assault and let's work to stop sexual assault rather than attempting to stop refugees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To clarify the point about college sexual assault classes. My daughter, a junior, teaches sexual assault classes at her college, which is one of those colleges with some recent high-profile rape cases. DD went through two weeks of training over the summer of 2014.

The "courses" at DD's college are generally a single session of a few hours' length. All incoming freshmen at DD's college have to do it. At DD's college, they take the form of a moderated discussion, lead by 2-3 trained students like DD.

More important, the main topic in these classes is Consent--the importance of both partners consenting, and what "consent" means. If the woman is very drunk, is she capable of understanding and meaning "yes"? There's still a lot of legal grey areas here. (FWIW, the class used to be called "Consent is Sexy" but that's been dropped for the last 2 years because it looked to be sending the wrong messages.)

What this class is *not* is a multi-week instruction in Western attitudes towards sexuality. It's certainly not intended to be a seminar on women's equality, which some of you seem to be suggesting.

Off point. The classes referred to are the attempts by some European countries to assimilate the new immigrants by holding classes on western cultural mores and sexual attitudes

Actually, I posted because I'm agreeing with you that the comparison made by several here is invalid. The US colleges classes are about the legal aspects of "consent." You're talking about classes to help immigrants understand Western sexual mores and/or even to change peoples' cultural attitudes towards women--a heavier and much more more complicated/nuanced lift, IMO.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem here is who the attackers predominantly are. Where are they from? What are their religious/traditional,inherent views on women? Are women generally respected in their cultures? why has the rape culture become so wildly popular in these once relatively safe and peaceful European countries? Unfortunately, you cannot separate the cause and effect relationship between are the two obvious factors at play here. Rapes and sexual attacks have increased exponentially since the influx of refugee/immigrant men from Arab and North African (Muslim) countries. That is a FACT, and cannot be ignored.

Based on the very few details we have about those arrested, most were North African and some were from Syria and Iraq. But, there were three Germans and one American. The answers to your questions are different depending upon which country the men came from, to which social class they belonged, and other factors. Can you point me to the most authoritative source of data that proves what you say is "FACT"? I've been trying to find useful data and only coming up with stuff from clearly anti-Islamic sources.

All the sources reporting on this have been world
Newspapers. As for the American and Germans, not surprising if they were of middle eastern descent too.

I will say again, the heritage of the American and Germans is pure speculation by this poster. I have not seen anything that supports this speculation (or refutes it for that matter).

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem here is who the attackers predominantly are. Where are they from? What are their religious/traditional,inherent views on women? Are women generally respected in their cultures? why has the rape culture become so wildly popular in these once relatively safe and peaceful European countries? Unfortunately, you cannot separate the cause and effect relationship between are the two obvious factors at play here. Rapes and sexual attacks have increased exponentially since the influx of refugee/immigrant men from Arab and North African (Muslim) countries. That is a FACT, and cannot be ignored.

Based on the very few details we have about those arrested, most were North African and some were from Syria and Iraq. But, there were three Germans and one American. The answers to your questions are different depending upon which country the men came from, to which social class they belonged, and other factors. Can you point me to the most authoritative source of data that proves what you say is "FACT"? I've been trying to find useful data and only coming up with stuff from clearly anti-Islamic sources.

If I breakdown what you are saying. You are basically saying I oppose sexual assault, but let's consider factors x, x, and x while ignoring the glaring most obvious one in the room because that could not possibly be the problem at all.

No, I'm saying that I oppose sexual assault and let's work to stop sexual assault rather than attempting to stop refugees.

And what I am saying is if you don't even consider refugees to be even a topic to be identified during this prevention of sexual
Assault, if it is the main factor in why sexual assaults are increasing, you can't even introduce effective policies to stop it. And yes that includes possibly restricting flow of refugees with high propensity of sexual violence. I understand the thought of that is anathema to you.