What do you do when your adult child goes into therapy and lays blame at your feet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

You have no idea what OP said to her child because all she’s told us is that she apologized. Really, you need to let this go and find peace for yourself in ways that are real.

I’m truly curious why you think all DCUM posts need to give the OP such deference. You seem to think that we have draw all possible favorable inferences for OP otherwise we are just projecting. What exactly do you think the exercise is here?

No. I’m simply saying that you shouldn’t draw all possible negative inferences or make stuff up about OP.

Let OP’s posts stand on their own. You insisting on imposing your personal issues on OP isn’t helping anybody, least of all you.

So let me get this straight. Someone comes to DCUM to post a question, and the role of commenters is to strictly adhere to what the OP said and not try to gain any additional perspective or fill in any gaps, or make any inferences that might be anything but positive. Is that right? So basically this is a content-free "you go girl" support board?

Ma'am, this is DCUM.

Are you the poster that projected their own baggage onto this situation, imagining that OP did more than stated? If so that's not helpful. OP is not your momma.

+1000. Just stop already, pp with the mommy issues.

I don't know who you are calling "PP with the mommy issues," but I am different PP who commented upthread. So there are at least two of us who think OP sounds a little off base with her approach to the problem, and what she should do is a little more self-refelection. I know it's tempting to say we are all projecting or whatever, and yeah, I admit that I did used to have struggles with how my mom reacted when I approached her with feelings about how I was raised. But I am 40 and now I don't care at all. I love my mom. I know she did her best and I appreciate what she did. I do think she could have reacted better, but I'm at the point in my life where my thoughts around parenting are how *I* should parent.

Different poster here. There is not just one PP who thinks OP might be off base with their response.

When I say things like, "parents should practice empathic listening and show their child that they care about their child's feelings, regardless of how old their child is," I mean "I should practice empathic listening and show my child that I care about their feelings." I'm not thinking much about commenters here or OP, and not at all about my own mom. I'm thinking about general principals I apply to myself.

No, I don't have an adult child. But have I been chastised by my child's therapist for doing something wrong, even though I was doing my absolute best and what I was doing was by no means abuse? Yes, yes I have. My child's therapist basically said that I, a victim of childhood trauma and all-around anxious individual, had to be cool as a cucumber, pretty much all the time, because my anxious reaction to things were messing up my child. There was literally nothing more difficult she could have asked of me, and I honestly thought it was pretty unfair that my options were to change my very nature or traumatize my child.

I did change and become more calm, but not before I did some damage. I didn't know it, but my child is autistic. She has very mild PTSD from my parenting, even though the mistakes I made were things like walking to the other side of the room and screaming into my hands when frustrated, as opposed to yelling in her face.

I wouldn't exactly say that it was my fault that I parented in a way that was harmful to my child. I didn't know she was autistic. It was hard for me to be calm because I have my own issues--my mom was completely verbally abusive and neglectful to me. I found some really great parenting books and did my best to do everything right. And now that I know what to do differently, I do better. But none of that changes the fact that I did things that caused my child harm. I own that. And when my daughter talks to me about it (which is rare, but it happens), I don't talk about how I didn't know, or how hard I tried, or how I had a childhood that was way worse than hers. I just let her know that I am sorry and I wish I had done things differently and I'll do whatever I can to help her. She's 17 and I'm not going to stop doing this a year from now.

OK, and good for you. But OP never said she told her kid, “look what I did for you.” OP was venting to us. We still have no idea what she told her kid—whether she said that or not. Whether she made a strings-free apology or not. All this “surmising” from one or more posters that OP must be a terrible mom, based on what she said in an anonymous vent on an anonymous board, is just weird.

OP here. I did apologize to him for everything that hurt him. I said it was not intentional to hurt him. My marriage was not ideal, we didn't hide our fighting from the kids- we both have hot tempers and were stressed out when our kids were little. We didn't fight to hurt the kids. We stayed married because we didn't want to hurt the kids. We didn't know better at the time. We took our kids to church, not to hurt ds. Homeschooled because the publics were not good/rough. Pushed DS to go to college for the opportunity to learn and grow. None of this was easy BTW. Other than apologizing, I can't fix him or change the past.

So you weren’t the perfect parent. Few are.

And he still has every right to feel how he feels. Put on your big girl panties and deal with it. Ask him what he needs. Might be more than an apology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

You have no idea what OP said to her child because all she’s told us is that she apologized. Really, you need to let this go and find peace for yourself in ways that are real.

I’m truly curious why you think all DCUM posts need to give the OP such deference. You seem to think that we have draw all possible favorable inferences for OP otherwise we are just projecting. What exactly do you think the exercise is here?

No. I’m simply saying that you shouldn’t draw all possible negative inferences or make stuff up about OP.

Let OP’s posts stand on their own. You insisting on imposing your personal issues on OP isn’t helping anybody, least of all you.

So let me get this straight. Someone comes to DCUM to post a question, and the role of commenters is to strictly adhere to what the OP said and not try to gain any additional perspective or fill in any gaps, or make any inferences that might be anything but positive. Is that right? So basically this is a content-free "you go girl" support board?

Ma'am, this is DCUM.

Are you the poster that projected their own baggage onto this situation, imagining that OP did more than stated? If so that's not helpful. OP is not your momma.

+1000. Just stop already, pp with the mommy issues.

I don't know who you are calling "PP with the mommy issues," but I am different PP who commented upthread. So there are at least two of us who think OP sounds a little off base with her approach to the problem, and what she should do is a little more self-refelection. I know it's tempting to say we are all projecting or whatever, and yeah, I admit that I did used to have struggles with how my mom reacted when I approached her with feelings about how I was raised. But I am 40 and now I don't care at all. I love my mom. I know she did her best and I appreciate what she did. I do think she could have reacted better, but I'm at the point in my life where my thoughts around parenting are how *I* should parent.

Different poster here. There is not just one PP who thinks OP might be off base with their response.

When I say things like, "parents should practice empathic listening and show their child that they care about their child's feelings, regardless of how old their child is," I mean "I should practice empathic listening and show my child that I care about their feelings." I'm not thinking much about commenters here or OP, and not at all about my own mom. I'm thinking about general principals I apply to myself.

No, I don't have an adult child. But have I been chastised by my child's therapist for doing something wrong, even though I was doing my absolute best and what I was doing was by no means abuse? Yes, yes I have. My child's therapist basically said that I, a victim of childhood trauma and all-around anxious individual, had to be cool as a cucumber, pretty much all the time, because my anxious reaction to things were messing up my child. There was literally nothing more difficult she could have asked of me, and I honestly thought it was pretty unfair that my options were to change my very nature or traumatize my child.

I did change and become more calm, but not before I did some damage. I didn't know it, but my child is autistic. She has very mild PTSD from my parenting, even though the mistakes I made were things like walking to the other side of the room and screaming into my hands when frustrated, as opposed to yelling in her face.

I wouldn't exactly say that it was my fault that I parented in a way that was harmful to my child. I didn't know she was autistic. It was hard for me to be calm because I have my own issues--my mom was completely verbally abusive and neglectful to me. I found some really great parenting books and did my best to do everything right. And now that I know what to do differently, I do better. But none of that changes the fact that I did things that caused my child harm. I own that. And when my daughter talks to me about it (which is rare, but it happens), I don't talk about how I didn't know, or how hard I tried, or how I had a childhood that was way worse than hers. I just let her know that I am sorry and I wish I had done things differently and I'll do whatever I can to help her. She's 17 and I'm not going to stop doing this a year from now.

OK, and good for you. But OP never said she told her kid, “look what I did for you.” OP was venting to us. We still have no idea what she told her kid—whether she said that or not. Whether she made a strings-free apology or not. All this “surmising” from one or more posters that OP must be a terrible mom, based on what she said in an anonymous vent on an anonymous board, is just weird.

OP here. I did apologize to him for everything that hurt him. I said it was not intentional to hurt him. My marriage was not ideal, we didn't hide our fighting from the kids- we both have hot tempers and were stressed out when our kids were little. We didn't fight to hurt the kids. We stayed married because we didn't want to hurt the kids. We didn't know better at the time. We took our kids to church, not to hurt ds. Homeschooled because the publics were not good/rough. Pushed DS to go to college for the opportunity to learn and grow. None of this was easy BTW. Other than apologizing, I can't fix him or change the past.

Do you even care that your child is struggling enough to be in therapy? Wow.

GO away, you sadist!! PP, you are TRULY cruel and just plain nuts.

OP, you did a good job. Not all kids turn out well. You did the job, and the person he is is mix of that plus his innate personality. Hopefully with continued introspection, he'll realize that you did all that can be asked of any parent on the planet -- the best you knew how to do.

damn, talk about projection …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

You have no idea what OP said to her child because all she’s told us is that she apologized. Really, you need to let this go and find peace for yourself in ways that are real.

I’m truly curious why you think all DCUM posts need to give the OP such deference. You seem to think that we have draw all possible favorable inferences for OP otherwise we are just projecting. What exactly do you think the exercise is here?

No. I’m simply saying that you shouldn’t draw all possible negative inferences or make stuff up about OP.

Let OP’s posts stand on their own. You insisting on imposing your personal issues on OP isn’t helping anybody, least of all you.

So let me get this straight. Someone comes to DCUM to post a question, and the role of commenters is to strictly adhere to what the OP said and not try to gain any additional perspective or fill in any gaps, or make any inferences that might be anything but positive. Is that right? So basically this is a content-free "you go girl" support board?

Ma'am, this is DCUM.

Are you the poster that projected their own baggage onto this situation, imagining that OP did more than stated? If so that's not helpful. OP is not your momma.

+1000. Just stop already, pp with the mommy issues.

I don't know who you are calling "PP with the mommy issues," but I am different PP who commented upthread. So there are at least two of us who think OP sounds a little off base with her approach to the problem, and what she should do is a little more self-refelection. I know it's tempting to say we are all projecting or whatever, and yeah, I admit that I did used to have struggles with how my mom reacted when I approached her with feelings about how I was raised. But I am 40 and now I don't care at all. I love my mom. I know she did her best and I appreciate what she did. I do think she could have reacted better, but I'm at the point in my life where my thoughts around parenting are how *I* should parent.

Different poster here. There is not just one PP who thinks OP might be off base with their response.

When I say things like, "parents should practice empathic listening and show their child that they care about their child's feelings, regardless of how old their child is," I mean "I should practice empathic listening and show my child that I care about their feelings." I'm not thinking much about commenters here or OP, and not at all about my own mom. I'm thinking about general principals I apply to myself.

No, I don't have an adult child. But have I been chastised by my child's therapist for doing something wrong, even though I was doing my absolute best and what I was doing was by no means abuse? Yes, yes I have. My child's therapist basically said that I, a victim of childhood trauma and all-around anxious individual, had to be cool as a cucumber, pretty much all the time, because my anxious reaction to things were messing up my child. There was literally nothing more difficult she could have asked of me, and I honestly thought it was pretty unfair that my options were to change my very nature or traumatize my child.

I did change and become more calm, but not before I did some damage. I didn't know it, but my child is autistic. She has very mild PTSD from my parenting, even though the mistakes I made were things like walking to the other side of the room and screaming into my hands when frustrated, as opposed to yelling in her face.

I wouldn't exactly say that it was my fault that I parented in a way that was harmful to my child. I didn't know she was autistic. It was hard for me to be calm because I have my own issues--my mom was completely verbally abusive and neglectful to me. I found some really great parenting books and did my best to do everything right. And now that I know what to do differently, I do better. But none of that changes the fact that I did things that caused my child harm. I own that. And when my daughter talks to me about it (which is rare, but it happens), I don't talk about how I didn't know, or how hard I tried, or how I had a childhood that was way worse than hers. I just let her know that I am sorry and I wish I had done things differently and I'll do whatever I can to help her. She's 17 and I'm not going to stop doing this a year from now.

OK, and good for you. But OP never said she told her kid, “look what I did for you.” OP was venting to us. We still have no idea what she told her kid—whether she said that or not. Whether she made a strings-free apology or not. All this “surmising” from one or more posters that OP must be a terrible mom, based on what she said in an anonymous vent on an anonymous board, is just weird.

OP here. I did apologize to him for everything that hurt him. I said it was not intentional to hurt him. My marriage was not ideal, we didn't hide our fighting from the kids- we both have hot tempers and were stressed out when our kids were little. We didn't fight to hurt the kids. We stayed married because we didn't want to hurt the kids. We didn't know better at the time. We took our kids to church, not to hurt ds. Homeschooled because the publics were not good/rough. Pushed DS to go to college for the opportunity to learn and grow. None of this was easy BTW. Other than apologizing, I can't fix him or change the past.

Do you even care that your child is struggling enough to be in therapy? Wow.

We care a lot. He has struggled as a adult with relationships, jobs, money. He also is into guns which is another aspect of his life that concerns us.

wtaf. yet you are focused on how he is being so unfair to you, instead of, oh I don’t know, offering to go to therapy with him? I don’t know exactly what happened in your family, but you need to step up and be an adult now.

Apparently there will be no end to what OP is supposed to say she's done or is willing to do to make her seem like a good mother in your eyes. Probably just like her son.

Why in the world would a grown man want his mommy to go to therapy with him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

You have no idea what OP said to her child because all she’s told us is that she apologized. Really, you need to let this go and find peace for yourself in ways that are real.

I’m truly curious why you think all DCUM posts need to give the OP such deference. You seem to think that we have draw all possible favorable inferences for OP otherwise we are just projecting. What exactly do you think the exercise is here?

No. I’m simply saying that you shouldn’t draw all possible negative inferences or make stuff up about OP.

Let OP’s posts stand on their own. You insisting on imposing your personal issues on OP isn’t helping anybody, least of all you.

So let me get this straight. Someone comes to DCUM to post a question, and the role of commenters is to strictly adhere to what the OP said and not try to gain any additional perspective or fill in any gaps, or make any inferences that might be anything but positive. Is that right? So basically this is a content-free "you go girl" support board?

Ma'am, this is DCUM.

Are you the poster that projected their own baggage onto this situation, imagining that OP did more than stated? If so that's not helpful. OP is not your momma.

+1000. Just stop already, pp with the mommy issues.

Oops, you did it again. You really can’t stop yourself. Therapy can help you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

accidentally getting the wrong kind of ice cream is obviously a completely different scale from forcing your kid to homeschool, rigid religious expectations, college pressure, subjecting them to a high-conflict marriage.

OP said they homeschooled because the local school was bad and dangerous. They went to church, but so do lots of people and that doesn’t mean “rigid religious expectations.” Helping your kid try college is terrible now?

Are you trolling? Or you’re just a basic internet bully. You’re completely twisting everything OP said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

You have no idea what OP said to her child because all she’s told us is that she apologized. Really, you need to let this go and find peace for yourself in ways that are real.

I’m truly curious why you think all DCUM posts need to give the OP such deference. You seem to think that we have draw all possible favorable inferences for OP otherwise we are just projecting. What exactly do you think the exercise is here?

No. I’m simply saying that you shouldn’t draw all possible negative inferences or make stuff up about OP.

Let OP’s posts stand on their own. You insisting on imposing your personal issues on OP isn’t helping anybody, least of all you.

So let me get this straight. Someone comes to DCUM to post a question, and the role of commenters is to strictly adhere to what the OP said and not try to gain any additional perspective or fill in any gaps, or make any inferences that might be anything but positive. Is that right? So basically this is a content-free "you go girl" support board?

Ma'am, this is DCUM.

Are you the poster that projected their own baggage onto this situation, imagining that OP did more than stated? If so that's not helpful. OP is not your momma.

+1000. Just stop already, pp with the mommy issues.

I don't know who you are calling "PP with the mommy issues," but I am different PP who commented upthread. So there are at least two of us who think OP sounds a little off base with her approach to the problem, and what she should do is a little more self-refelection. I know it's tempting to say we are all projecting or whatever, and yeah, I admit that I did used to have struggles with how my mom reacted when I approached her with feelings about how I was raised. But I am 40 and now I don't care at all. I love my mom. I know she did her best and I appreciate what she did. I do think she could have reacted better, but I'm at the point in my life where my thoughts around parenting are how *I* should parent.

Different poster here. There is not just one PP who thinks OP might be off base with their response.

When I say things like, "parents should practice empathic listening and show their child that they care about their child's feelings, regardless of how old their child is," I mean "I should practice empathic listening and show my child that I care about their feelings." I'm not thinking much about commenters here or OP, and not at all about my own mom. I'm thinking about general principals I apply to myself.

No, I don't have an adult child. But have I been chastised by my child's therapist for doing something wrong, even though I was doing my absolute best and what I was doing was by no means abuse? Yes, yes I have. My child's therapist basically said that I, a victim of childhood trauma and all-around anxious individual, had to be cool as a cucumber, pretty much all the time, because my anxious reaction to things were messing up my child. There was literally nothing more difficult she could have asked of me, and I honestly thought it was pretty unfair that my options were to change my very nature or traumatize my child.

I did change and become more calm, but not before I did some damage. I didn't know it, but my child is autistic. She has very mild PTSD from my parenting, even though the mistakes I made were things like walking to the other side of the room and screaming into my hands when frustrated, as opposed to yelling in her face.

I wouldn't exactly say that it was my fault that I parented in a way that was harmful to my child. I didn't know she was autistic. It was hard for me to be calm because I have my own issues--my mom was completely verbally abusive and neglectful to me. I found some really great parenting books and did my best to do everything right. And now that I know what to do differently, I do better. But none of that changes the fact that I did things that caused my child harm. I own that. And when my daughter talks to me about it (which is rare, but it happens), I don't talk about how I didn't know, or how hard I tried, or how I had a childhood that was way worse than hers. I just let her know that I am sorry and I wish I had done things differently and I'll do whatever I can to help her. She's 17 and I'm not going to stop doing this a year from now.

OK, and good for you. But OP never said she told her kid, “look what I did for you.” OP was venting to us. We still have no idea what she told her kid—whether she said that or not. Whether she made a strings-free apology or not. All this “surmising” from one or more posters that OP must be a terrible mom, based on what she said in an anonymous vent on an anonymous board, is just weird.

OP here. I did apologize to him for everything that hurt him. I said it was not intentional to hurt him. My marriage was not ideal, we didn't hide our fighting from the kids- we both have hot tempers and were stressed out when our kids were little. We didn't fight to hurt the kids. We stayed married because we didn't want to hurt the kids. We didn't know better at the time. We took our kids to church, not to hurt ds. Homeschooled because the publics were not good/rough. Pushed DS to go to college for the opportunity to learn and grow. None of this was easy BTW. Other than apologizing, I can't fix him or change the past.

Well that took the wind out of the “OP is an evil homeschooling fundie, I know her type!” poster.

ROFL. God, you’re gullible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

You have no idea what OP said to her child because all she’s told us is that she apologized. Really, you need to let this go and find peace for yourself in ways that are real.

I’m truly curious why you think all DCUM posts need to give the OP such deference. You seem to think that we have draw all possible favorable inferences for OP otherwise we are just projecting. What exactly do you think the exercise is here?

No. I’m simply saying that you shouldn’t draw all possible negative inferences or make stuff up about OP.

Let OP’s posts stand on their own. You insisting on imposing your personal issues on OP isn’t helping anybody, least of all you.

So let me get this straight. Someone comes to DCUM to post a question, and the role of commenters is to strictly adhere to what the OP said and not try to gain any additional perspective or fill in any gaps, or make any inferences that might be anything but positive. Is that right? So basically this is a content-free "you go girl" support board?

Ma'am, this is DCUM.

Are you the poster that projected their own baggage onto this situation, imagining that OP did more than stated? If so that's not helpful. OP is not your momma.

+1000. Just stop already, pp with the mommy issues.

I don't know who you are calling "PP with the mommy issues," but I am different PP who commented upthread. So there are at least two of us who think OP sounds a little off base with her approach to the problem, and what she should do is a little more self-refelection. I know it's tempting to say we are all projecting or whatever, and yeah, I admit that I did used to have struggles with how my mom reacted when I approached her with feelings about how I was raised. But I am 40 and now I don't care at all. I love my mom. I know she did her best and I appreciate what she did. I do think she could have reacted better, but I'm at the point in my life where my thoughts around parenting are how *I* should parent.

Different poster here. There is not just one PP who thinks OP might be off base with their response.

When I say things like, "parents should practice empathic listening and show their child that they care about their child's feelings, regardless of how old their child is," I mean "I should practice empathic listening and show my child that I care about their feelings." I'm not thinking much about commenters here or OP, and not at all about my own mom. I'm thinking about general principals I apply to myself.

No, I don't have an adult child. But have I been chastised by my child's therapist for doing something wrong, even though I was doing my absolute best and what I was doing was by no means abuse? Yes, yes I have. My child's therapist basically said that I, a victim of childhood trauma and all-around anxious individual, had to be cool as a cucumber, pretty much all the time, because my anxious reaction to things were messing up my child. There was literally nothing more difficult she could have asked of me, and I honestly thought it was pretty unfair that my options were to change my very nature or traumatize my child.

I did change and become more calm, but not before I did some damage. I didn't know it, but my child is autistic. She has very mild PTSD from my parenting, even though the mistakes I made were things like walking to the other side of the room and screaming into my hands when frustrated, as opposed to yelling in her face.

I wouldn't exactly say that it was my fault that I parented in a way that was harmful to my child. I didn't know she was autistic. It was hard for me to be calm because I have my own issues--my mom was completely verbally abusive and neglectful to me. I found some really great parenting books and did my best to do everything right. And now that I know what to do differently, I do better. But none of that changes the fact that I did things that caused my child harm. I own that. And when my daughter talks to me about it (which is rare, but it happens), I don't talk about how I didn't know, or how hard I tried, or how I had a childhood that was way worse than hers. I just let her know that I am sorry and I wish I had done things differently and I'll do whatever I can to help her. She's 17 and I'm not going to stop doing this a year from now.

OK, and good for you. But OP never said she told her kid, “look what I did for you.” OP was venting to us. We still have no idea what she told her kid—whether she said that or not. Whether she made a strings-free apology or not. All this “surmising” from one or more posters that OP must be a terrible mom, based on what she said in an anonymous vent on an anonymous board, is just weird.

OP here. I did apologize to him for everything that hurt him. I said it was not intentional to hurt him. My marriage was not ideal, we didn't hide our fighting from the kids- we both have hot tempers and were stressed out when our kids were little. We didn't fight to hurt the kids. We stayed married because we didn't want to hurt the kids. We didn't know better at the time. We took our kids to church, not to hurt ds. Homeschooled because the publics were not good/rough. Pushed DS to go to college for the opportunity to learn and grow. None of this was easy BTW. Other than apologizing, I can't fix him or change the past.

What exactly did you say though?

What should be said in your opinion?

Answer the question and stop deflecting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

What would a 'good' apology look like? Getting down on bended knee at DS feet and apologizing for everything DS didn't like about his upbringing?
Would that solidify DS's belief that his unhappiness is due to his parents choices and not his own? And that DS is not responsible for any of the problems he has in life? Psrents made the problems so they must fix them.

Getting down on bender knee? Your hyperbole makes it difficult to take you seriously. Why can’t OP apologize her poor choices, some of which she can now see are wrong. Why can’t she acknowledge that these choices hurt her child? Why does OP (and apparently you) need an apology need to come with a defense. There is not a person on this 30 page thread who disagrees that the adult must take of his own life at this point. Why do you continue to raise strawmen?

OP says she has apologized. She hasn’t told us how she did it or whether bended knees were involved. She has acknowledged here some of her poor choices. You’re ready to condemn her because she hasn’t painted a picture of abject self-abasement, but in fact we don’t know the details.

Has she acknowledged to her son that her choices were poor? OP? What did you say in your apology?

What I find interesting is that OP is sort of willing to acknowledge that some of her choices might have been wrong or harmful. But what she's really demanding is exactly how her son process that history -- she wants to control how he thinks and acts about it. She cannot accept that he has his own point of view. She believes that because she apologized that is "enough," because she tried her hardest and her son was "challenging." In short - really not a fruitful way to have a relationship.

Why can't that be true? She did her best. Her son was challenging. Have you REALLY not known any challenging kids? Really? Not talking about you for a second -- -- but seriously, you have never known a challenging child? A neighbor, your kids' classmates, a neighbor, a niece of nephew -- none?? They do exist. Some children are difficult. It's not wrong to say it like it is.

Of course I do. I have two challenging brothers, and what my parents did to them was awful. My parents would probably claim that I was challenging too (despite being NMFS and getting a huge college scholarship and being completely self-supporting from the minute I left home). Narcissistic/emotionally immature parents will always blame someone else.

So you are not willing to admit that some children are challenging.

My post literally said my brothers were challenging. Kids being challenging does not give parents license to do whatever they want and claim they never did anything wrong. It’s the opposite actually. And of course, syndromes like ODD are closely, closely linked to parenting style. My own child went through and extremely challenging phase and I got therapy to learn to parent him better.

You said narcissistic/emotionally immature parents will always blame someone else. SOME CHILDREN ARE DIFFICULT. Fact.

What are you going to do when your own child grows up and says you didn't handle their challenging phase well? That you could have done better? And that he resents you for not handling it well? Despite going to therapy to learn how to parent him better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

accidentally getting the wrong kind of ice cream is obviously a completely different scale from forcing your kid to homeschool, rigid religious expectations, college pressure, subjecting them to a high-conflict marriage.

I was responding to this, drama queen: "Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

accidentally getting the wrong kind of ice cream is obviously a completely different scale from forcing your kid to homeschool, rigid religious expectations, college pressure, subjecting them to a high-conflict marriage.

OP said they homeschooled because the local school was bad and dangerous. They went to church, but so do lots of people and that doesn’t mean “rigid religious expectations.” Helping your kid try college is terrible now?

Are you trolling? Or you’re just a basic internet bully. You’re completely twisting everything OP said.

She *said* that after PAGES AND PAGES of people telling her that forcing her religion on him and forcing homeschooling, which she said he didn’t want, on him. People here change their stories every day to fit their preferred narrative when they aren’t getting the affirming responses they wanted. Are you new to DCUM?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard. [/quote]

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.[/quote]


In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, [b]they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here.[/b] And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally [/quote]

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….[/quote]

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response. [/quote]

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.[/quote]

accidentally getting the wrong kind of ice cream is obviously a completely different scale from forcing your kid to homeschool, rigid religious expectations, college pressure, subjecting them to a high-conflict marriage. [/quote]

[b]OP said they homeschooled because the local school was bad and dangerous. [/b]They went to church, but so do lots of people and that doesn’t mean “rigid religious expectations.” Helping your kid try college is terrible now?

Are you trolling? Or you’re just a basic internet bully. You’re completely twisting everything OP said.[/quote]

She *said* that after PAGES AND PAGES of people telling her that forcing her religion on him and forcing homeschooling, which she said he didn’t want, on him. People here change their stories every day to fit their preferred narrative when they aren’t getting the affirming responses they wanted. Are you new to DCUM?[/quote]

So now that OP has told you something that doesn’t comport with your narrative, she must be lying or changing her story.

Get help. Fast!

The only reason I stick with this thread is that it’s an interesting study of mental illness—yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

accidentally getting the wrong kind of ice cream is obviously a completely different scale from forcing your kid to homeschool, rigid religious expectations, college pressure, subjecting them to a high-conflict marriage.

OP said they homeschooled because the local school was bad and dangerous. They went to church, but so do lots of people and that doesn’t mean “rigid religious expectations.” Helping your kid try college is terrible now?

Are you trolling? Or you’re just a basic internet bully. You’re completely twisting everything OP said.

She *said* that after PAGES AND PAGES of people telling her that forcing her religion on him and forcing homeschooling, which she said he didn’t want, on him. People here change their stories every day to fit their preferred narrative when they aren’t getting the affirming responses they wanted. Are you new to DCUM?

So now that OP has told you something that doesn’t comport with your narrative, she must be lying or changing her story.

Get help. Fast!

The only reason I stick with this thread is that it’s an interesting study of mental illness—yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

You have no idea what OP said to her child because all she’s told us is that she apologized. Really, you need to let this go and find peace for yourself in ways that are real.

I’m truly curious why you think all DCUM posts need to give the OP such deference. You seem to think that we have draw all possible favorable inferences for OP otherwise we are just projecting. What exactly do you think the exercise is here?

No. I’m simply saying that you shouldn’t draw all possible negative inferences or make stuff up about OP.

Let OP’s posts stand on their own. You insisting on imposing your personal issues on OP isn’t helping anybody, least of all you.

So let me get this straight. Someone comes to DCUM to post a question, and the role of commenters is to strictly adhere to what the OP said and not try to gain any additional perspective or fill in any gaps, or make any inferences that might be anything but positive. Is that right? So basically this is a content-free "you go girl" support board?

Ma'am, this is DCUM.

Are you the poster that projected their own baggage onto this situation, imagining that OP did more than stated? If so that's not helpful. OP is not your momma.

+1000. Just stop already, pp with the mommy issues.

I don't know who you are calling "PP with the mommy issues," but I am different PP who commented upthread. So there are at least two of us who think OP sounds a little off base with her approach to the problem, and what she should do is a little more self-refelection. I know it's tempting to say we are all projecting or whatever, and yeah, I admit that I did used to have struggles with how my mom reacted when I approached her with feelings about how I was raised. But I am 40 and now I don't care at all. I love my mom. I know she did her best and I appreciate what she did. I do think she could have reacted better, but I'm at the point in my life where my thoughts around parenting are how *I* should parent.

Different poster here. There is not just one PP who thinks OP might be off base with their response.

When I say things like, "parents should practice empathic listening and show their child that they care about their child's feelings, regardless of how old their child is," I mean "I should practice empathic listening and show my child that I care about their feelings." I'm not thinking much about commenters here or OP, and not at all about my own mom. I'm thinking about general principals I apply to myself.

No, I don't have an adult child. But have I been chastised by my child's therapist for doing something wrong, even though I was doing my absolute best and what I was doing was by no means abuse? Yes, yes I have. My child's therapist basically said that I, a victim of childhood trauma and all-around anxious individual, had to be cool as a cucumber, pretty much all the time, because my anxious reaction to things were messing up my child. There was literally nothing more difficult she could have asked of me, and I honestly thought it was pretty unfair that my options were to change my very nature or traumatize my child.

I did change and become more calm, but not before I did some damage. I didn't know it, but my child is autistic. She has very mild PTSD from my parenting, even though the mistakes I made were things like walking to the other side of the room and screaming into my hands when frustrated, as opposed to yelling in her face.

I wouldn't exactly say that it was my fault that I parented in a way that was harmful to my child. I didn't know she was autistic. It was hard for me to be calm because I have my own issues--my mom was completely verbally abusive and neglectful to me. I found some really great parenting books and did my best to do everything right. And now that I know what to do differently, I do better. But none of that changes the fact that I did things that caused my child harm. I own that. And when my daughter talks to me about it (which is rare, but it happens), I don't talk about how I didn't know, or how hard I tried, or how I had a childhood that was way worse than hers. I just let her know that I am sorry and I wish I had done things differently and I'll do whatever I can to help her. She's 17 and I'm not going to stop doing this a year from now.

OK, and good for you. But OP never said she told her kid, “look what I did for you.” OP was venting to us. We still have no idea what she told her kid—whether she said that or not. Whether she made a strings-free apology or not. All this “surmising” from one or more posters that OP must be a terrible mom, based on what she said in an anonymous vent on an anonymous board, is just weird.

OP here. I did apologize to him for everything that hurt him. I said it was not intentional to hurt him. My marriage was not ideal, we didn't hide our fighting from the kids- we both have hot tempers and were stressed out when our kids were little. We didn't fight to hurt the kids. We stayed married because we didn't want to hurt the kids. We didn't know better at the time. We took our kids to church, not to hurt ds. Homeschooled because the publics were not good/rough. Pushed DS to go to college for the opportunity to learn and grow. None of this was easy BTW. Other than apologizing, I can't fix him or change the past.

Well that took the wind out of the “OP is an evil homeschooling fundie, I know her type!” poster.

I'd like to understand what "not good/rough" means because OP has already said homeschooling was not good for her son.

[Anonymous]

I think the anti-parent troll(s) on this thread have harvested as much as they can hope to harvest from a single thread. I hope you've gotten enough material, trolls. I'm out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.