New Year Eve's Coordinated Sexual Assault Attacks in Cologne

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:German law regarding crime and asylum seekers:

http://aranews.net/2016/01/germany-divided-over-expulsion-of-convicted-asylum-seekers/

Is it "better" than our laws?

What it means is that Syrian refugees cannot be deported, not by Germany or by any other country, including the US.

Yet Obama's deporting Spanish speaking criminals right now, isn't he?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else see the ludicrous in both importing men with this 'cultural lack of behavior' and simultaneously disarming the American public?

+1,000

+1,000,000

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else see the ludicrous in both importing men with this 'cultural lack of behavior' and simultaneously disarming the American public?

+1,000

Does anyone see anything ludicrous in the fact that at least two posters with enough intelligence to use a computer believe that the American public is being disarmed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, when you start hurling vulgarities at a whole bunch of different women that are genuinely very offended and distressed at what you said, and who have not said the same vulgarities and some who even apologized to you earlier when you complained of being picked on, it's time to reconsider and at least try to see where they are coming from. Throwing f bombs is just a new low level.

+1

+2

[Anonymous]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/08/europe/europe-new-year-alleged-violence/

Why the non stop apologists? Why freezing threads over this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just why I was reluctant to wade in. Obviously if the man is obviously groping her, women of all cultures fight back. But Western women tend to let go the casual brushing that could be accidental, giving the benefit of the doubt.

An Arab woman wouldn't give any benefit of the doubt--she'd cause a scene even for the mildest of contact that could be inappropriate. And her response could be wildly disproportionate by our standards, but no one would call her on that as it is her right to defend her honor however she sees fit.

My colleague's wife would have been arrested for what she did if it had happened here and undoubtedly charged with assault. She also likely would have been subject to a civil suit for the harm she inflicted.

In Cologne about 120.women called the police to report assaults that evening. That was smarter than :fighting back" given the circumstances don't you think?

Yes--in fact I said as much. You can't do the responses that are effective in a place packed with men and no room to swing a handbag. But these men have been in the streets every day for months "accidentally" bumping into women or brushing against them with no push back at all from European women. And they have totally gotten the wrong idea.

Yes, maybe the onus is on the woman when it should be on the man. But I would bet the rate of harassment would abate if women yelled and cursed at every Arab man who casually brushed up against her. Unfortunately, I don't think western police would back up a woman who inflicted any harm with her handbag.

Gee, as an American woman, the only response I've gotten from an American man when accidentally brushed against was 'I'm sorry '. I have been in crowded American bars and never groped. If these imports act this way in TX, these 'accidental' bumps as you call them, they are likely to be put on the ground by an American man until the cops come.

You don't think western police would support the woman? Western policemen don't take these situations lightly. My kid one dialed 911 as a toddler, and would not take my word for 'things are ok'. My husband had to show himself.

+1 let's not say Texas. Even in liberal California or New York I am fully confident the police would come to my aid. I have been in massively crowded places and not worry about being assaulted by American men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a decent article that shows culture may not be to blame:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/04/the-real-roots-of-sexism-in-the-middle-east-its-not-islam-race-or-hate/256362/

The part referring to actions perhaps taken out of anger and emasculation raises a good point.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, when you start hurling vulgarities at a whole bunch of different women that are genuinely very offended and distressed at what you said, and who have not said the same vulgarities and some who even apologized to you earlier when you complained of being picked on, it's time to reconsider and at least try to see where they are coming from. Throwing f bombs is just a new low level.

No it was not "a whole bunch of different women". It was one poster -- apparently female -- who attacked me twice and who was clearly seeking a fight. I've been trying to see where a lot of different posters (I never know their sex for sure) are coming from. There are even women who are reluctant to join this thread because of the reactions any opinion that is a little bit different provokes. A man is an easy target. Instead of responding to ideas I am presenting, just pick a phrase that doesn't meet your approval. That's the easy way of avoiding a discussion and "winning" a debate. Of course that pisses me off.

Just want to point out its not one poster. I'm not the pp you yelled f at but I was very upset at the entire exchange on unwanted behaviors. There were at least a couple of posters responding to that exchange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a decent article that shows culture may not be to blame:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/04/the-real-roots-of-sexism-in-the-middle-east-its-not-islam-race-or-hate/256362/

The part referring to actions perhaps taken out of anger and emasculation raises a good point.

Regardless of their culture, mobs surrounding women and assaulting them need to be controlled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a decent article that shows culture may not be to blame:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/04/the-real-roots-of-sexism-in-the-middle-east-its-not-islam-race-or-hate/256362/

The part referring to actions perhaps taken out of anger and emasculation raises a good point.

So if you look at domestic violence in the US many of the men battering women. Had abusive childhoods. Just read crazy love. It does not make what they do any less horrific and we have a whole host of laws and protocols against that. That is absolutely no excuse for Arab men to assault women. Most of these men weren't even born during colonial times. All the article does is make another excuse why there is deep trenches misogyny in the culture instead of Islam. One thing it acknowledges is there is misogyny, it just attributes it to another reason and blamed white colonialism . Of course. It in NO WAY excuses sexual violence in Arab men what so ever. If you use that as an excuse for sexual violence, you don't support women's rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:German law regarding crime and asylum seekers:

http://aranews.net/2016/01/germany-divided-over-expulsion-of-convicted-asylum-seekers/

Is it "better" than our laws?

What it means is that Syrian refugees cannot be deported, not by Germany or by any other country, including the US.

Yet Obama's deporting Spanish speaking criminals right now, isn't he?

Not to Syria. Countries can only lock up Syrian refugees, not deport them to a country in a state of war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just why I was reluctant to wade in. Obviously if the man is obviously groping her, women of all cultures fight back. But Western women tend to let go the casual brushing that could be accidental, giving the benefit of the doubt.

An Arab woman wouldn't give any benefit of the doubt--she'd cause a scene even for the mildest of contact that could be inappropriate. And her response could be wildly disproportionate by our standards, but no one would call her on that as it is her right to defend her honor however she sees fit.

My colleague's wife would have been arrested for what she did if it had happened here and undoubtedly charged with assault. She also likely would have been subject to a civil suit for the harm she inflicted.

In Cologne about 120.women called the police to report assaults that evening. That was smarter than :fighting back" given the circumstances don't you think?

Yes--in fact I said as much. You can't do the responses that are effective in a place packed with men and no room to swing a handbag. But these men have been in the streets every day for months "accidentally" bumping into women or brushing against them with no push back at all from European women. And they have totally gotten the wrong idea.

Yes, maybe the onus is on the woman when it should be on the man. But I would bet the rate of harassment would abate if women yelled and cursed at every Arab man who casually brushed up against her. Unfortunately, I don't think western police would back up a woman who inflicted any harm with her handbag.

Gee, as an American woman, the only response I've gotten from an American man when accidentally brushed against was 'I'm sorry '. I have been in crowded American bars and never groped. If these imports act this way in TX, these 'accidental' bumps as you call them, they are likely to be put on the ground by an American man until the cops come.

You don't think western police would support the woman? Western policemen don't take these situations lightly. My kid one dialed 911 as a toddler, and would not take my word for 'things are ok'. My husband had to show himself.

+1 let's not say Texas. Even in liberal California or New York I am fully confident the police would come to my aid. I have been in massively crowded places and not worry about being assaulted by American men.

I think the point was not that police here don't back up women in general, it was that if the woman herself beat her assaulter unconscious with her handbag for a brushing up incident that happened in public, they would have to investigate her and she would be liable for being charged with assault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a decent article that shows culture may not be to blame:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/04/the-real-roots-of-sexism-in-the-middle-east-its-not-islam-race-or-hate/256362/

The part referring to actions perhaps taken out of anger and emasculation raises a good point.

I was emasculated in history in a period I was not even born in. I have license to now abuse my local women and assault foreign women. That position is rubbish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just why I was reluctant to wade in. Obviously if the man is obviously groping her, women of all cultures fight back. But Western women tend to let go the casual brushing that could be accidental, giving the benefit of the doubt.

An Arab woman wouldn't give any benefit of the doubt--she'd cause a scene even for the mildest of contact that could be inappropriate. And her response could be wildly disproportionate by our standards, but no one would call her on that as it is her right to defend her honor however she sees fit.

My colleague's wife would have been arrested for what she did if it had happened here and undoubtedly charged with assault. She also likely would have been subject to a civil suit for the harm she inflicted.

In Cologne about 120.women called the police to report assaults that evening. That was smarter than :fighting back" given the circumstances don't you think?

Yes--in fact I said as much. You can't do the responses that are effective in a place packed with men and no room to swing a handbag. But these men have been in the streets every day for months "accidentally" bumping into women or brushing against them with no push back at all from European women. And they have totally gotten the wrong idea.

Yes, maybe the onus is on the woman when it should be on the man. But I would bet the rate of harassment would abate if women yelled and cursed at every Arab man who casually brushed up against her. Unfortunately, I don't think western police would back up a woman who inflicted any harm with her handbag.

Gee, as an American woman, the only response I've gotten from an American man when accidentally brushed against was 'I'm sorry '. I have been in crowded American bars and never groped. If these imports act this way in TX, these 'accidental' bumps as you call them, they are likely to be put on the ground by an American man until the cops come.

You don't think western police would support the woman? Western policemen don't take these situations lightly. My kid one dialed 911 as a toddler, and would not take my word for 'things are ok'. My husband had to show himself.

+1 let's not say Texas. Even in liberal California or New York I am fully confident the police would come to my aid. I have been in massively crowded places and not worry about being assaulted by American men.

I think the point was not that police here don't back up women in general, it was that if the woman herself beat her assaulter unconscious with her handbag for a brushing up incident that happened in public, they would have to investigate her and she would be liable for being charged with assault.

Well good thing here women don't have to violently assault their local men to get them to leave them alone. What a civilized culture we have. That post was a mixture of victim blaming.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, when you start hurling vulgarities at a whole bunch of different women that are genuinely very offended and distressed at what you said, and who have not said the same vulgarities and some who even apologized to you earlier when you complained of being picked on, it's time to reconsider and at least try to see where they are coming from. Throwing f bombs is just a new low level.

No it was not "a whole bunch of different women". It was one poster -- apparently female -- who attacked me twice and who was clearly seeking a fight. I've been trying to see where a lot of different posters (I never know their sex for sure) are coming from. There are even women who are reluctant to join this thread because of the reactions any opinion that is a little bit different provokes. A man is an easy target. Instead of responding to ideas I am presenting, just pick a phrase that doesn't meet your approval. That's the easy way of avoiding a discussion and "winning" a debate. Of course that pisses me off.

Just want to point out its not one poster. I'm not the pp you yelled f at but I was very upset at the entire exchange on unwanted behaviors. There were at least a couple of posters responding to that exchange.

Yes, more than one poster was upset, but only one came looking for a fight. She found one.