PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.

Most of us don't!

I know of ZERO Christians who host Seders. BUT, I know of MANY, MANY, MANY Jews how have Christmas trees!!

Whoa. Calm down.

First of all, just because you don’t know any doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Second, a Christmas tree is hardly equivalent to a Passover Seder.

Right... Because it doesn’t impact your religion so it doesn’t matter.

Hardly. First of all, most Jewish families don’t have a Christmas tree. Interfaith families do, but hardly any wholly Jewish families.

Second, the Christmas tree is not a religious symbol. It’s not like a nativity scene.

Thank you for clarifying what is a religious symbol for Christians! I’ll follow your lead and clarify what you should consider a religious symbol in Judaism, sounds good?

If a Christmas tree is generally considered a religious symbol, please provide evidence of such, and I’ll gladly admit I was wrong. We’ve provided ample evidence of why it’s inappropriate for Christians to have a Christian Seder.

Your evidence is that Christians should trash half their holy book because many prophets and traditions overlap with Judaism. You keep saying Passover is Easter when it is not. You want to erase half of the Christian tradition because you think the stories in the Old Testament/Torah/Qran belong only to Jews. That’s a nonstarter. I do not accept that Passover that is described in the Bible amounts to appropriation or that it is Easter—a separate holiday.

Dude. Where is the Passover Seder in the bible? Where is the matzoh, the charoset, the bitter herbs dipped in salt water? The Passover seder is a Jewish religious rite. The Christian religious rites centered around the story of Exodus and Jesus’s Last Supper, and the analogy of Jesus to the lamb sacrificed to save the Israelites is Easter. Full stop. In addition you have the Eucharist if you are Catholic or your church has communion. Nobody is saying you cannot celebrate Easter.

It’s in Exodus.

I can understand that the term Seder has specific meaning relating to reading the Haggadah and specific blessings and traditions. Since Christians aren’t doing that, I can see why you wouldn’t want them calling their Passover meal a Seder. However, I do not understand trying to erase Passover from the Bible and Christianity. It is not Easter.

Would you prefer that Christians call their Passover meal a Passover supper? This is actually what most churches do btw.

for the kajillionth time nobody is erasing Exodus. the seder is not in any Chrisitian religious text. Please discuss the meaning of Easter and the Eucharist with your priest or pastor.

DP. So that is a yes. Btw the meaning of Easter is to celebrate Jesus rising. You keep claiming that in Christianity Passover = Easter. It does not.

to clarify: there IS no passover Seder in Christianity because seders are Jewish, not Christian. The way you connect to Exodus and the Last Supper is through Easter and the Eucharist. A Christian seder is either an oxymoron or changing the seder into the story of Jesus. In which case, it is not a seder, it is Easter.

Thanks PP! I’ll let my church know that our Passover celebration doesn’t exist! It’s not in the Bible because you say so. The sermons and Bible verses describing the exodus are all a big misunderstanding! Good to know!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.

Most of us don't!

I know of ZERO Christians who host Seders. BUT, I know of MANY, MANY, MANY Jews how have Christmas trees!!

Whoa. Calm down.

First of all, just because you don’t know any doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Second, a Christmas tree is hardly equivalent to a Passover Seder.

Right... Because it doesn’t impact your religion so it doesn’t matter.

Hardly. First of all, most Jewish families don’t have a Christmas tree. Interfaith families do, but hardly any wholly Jewish families.

Second, the Christmas tree is not a religious symbol. It’s not like a nativity scene.

Thank you for clarifying what is a religious symbol for Christians! I’ll follow your lead and clarify what you should consider a religious symbol in Judaism, sounds good?

If a Christmas tree is generally considered a religious symbol, please provide evidence of such, and I’ll gladly admit I was wrong. We’ve provided ample evidence of why it’s inappropriate for Christians to have a Christian Seder.

Your evidence is that Christians should trash half their holy book because many prophets and traditions overlap with Judaism. You keep saying Passover is Easter when it is not. You want to erase half of the Christian tradition because you think the stories in the Old Testament/Torah/Qran belong only to Jews. That’s a nonstarter. I do not accept that Passover that is described in the Bible amounts to appropriation or that it is Easter—a separate holiday.

Dude. Where is the Passover Seder in the bible? Where is the matzoh, the charoset, the bitter herbs dipped in salt water? The Passover seder is a Jewish religious rite. The Christian religious rites centered around the story of Exodus and Jesus’s Last Supper, and the analogy of Jesus to the lamb sacrificed to save the Israelites is Easter. Full stop. In addition you have the Eucharist if you are Catholic or your church has communion. Nobody is saying you cannot celebrate Easter.

It’s in Exodus.

I can understand that the term Seder has specific meaning relating to reading the Haggadah and specific blessings and traditions. Since Christians aren’t doing that, I can see why you wouldn’t want them calling their Passover meal a Seder. However, I do not understand trying to erase Passover from the Bible and Christianity. It is not Easter.

Would you prefer that Christians call their Passover meal a Passover supper? This is actually what most churches do btw.

for the kajillionth time nobody is erasing Exodus. the seder is not in any Chrisitian religious text. Please discuss the meaning of Easter and the Eucharist with your priest or pastor.

DP. So that is a yes. Btw the meaning of Easter is to celebrate Jesus rising. You keep claiming that in Christianity Passover = Easter. It does not.

to clarify: there IS no passover Seder in Christianity because seders are Jewish, not Christian. The way you connect to Exodus and the Last Supper is through Easter and the Eucharist. A Christian seder is either an oxymoron or changing the seder into the story of Jesus. In which case, it is not a seder, it is Easter.

Thanks PP! I’ll let my church know that our Passover celebration doesn’t exist! It’s not in the Bible because you say so. The sermons and Bible verses describing the exodus are all a big misunderstanding! Good to know!

Great! Be a voice for education, not ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.

Most of us don't!

I know of ZERO Christians who host Seders. BUT, I know of MANY, MANY, MANY Jews how have Christmas trees!!

Whoa. Calm down.

First of all, just because you don’t know any doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Second, a Christmas tree is hardly equivalent to a Passover Seder.

Right... Because it doesn’t impact your religion so it doesn’t matter.

Hardly. First of all, most Jewish families don’t have a Christmas tree. Interfaith families do, but hardly any wholly Jewish families.

Second, the Christmas tree is not a religious symbol. It’s not like a nativity scene.

Thank you for clarifying what is a religious symbol for Christians! I’ll follow your lead and clarify what you should consider a religious symbol in Judaism, sounds good?

If a Christmas tree is generally considered a religious symbol, please provide evidence of such, and I’ll gladly admit I was wrong. We’ve provided ample evidence of why it’s inappropriate for Christians to have a Christian Seder.

Your evidence is that Christians should trash half their holy book because many prophets and traditions overlap with Judaism. You keep saying Passover is Easter when it is not. You want to erase half of the Christian tradition because you think the stories in the Old Testament/Torah/Qran belong only to Jews. That’s a nonstarter. I do not accept that Passover that is described in the Bible amounts to appropriation or that it is Easter—a separate holiday.

Dude. Where is the Passover Seder in the bible? Where is the matzoh, the charoset, the bitter herbs dipped in salt water? The Passover seder is a Jewish religious rite. The Christian religious rites centered around the story of Exodus and Jesus’s Last Supper, and the analogy of Jesus to the lamb sacrificed to save the Israelites is Easter. Full stop. In addition you have the Eucharist if you are Catholic or your church has communion. Nobody is saying you cannot celebrate Easter.

It’s in Exodus.

I can understand that the term Seder has specific meaning relating to reading the Haggadah and specific blessings and traditions. Since Christians aren’t doing that, I can see why you wouldn’t want them calling their Passover meal a Seder. However, I do not understand trying to erase Passover from the Bible and Christianity. It is not Easter.

Would you prefer that Christians call their Passover meal a Passover supper? This is actually what most churches do btw.

for the kajillionth time nobody is erasing Exodus. the seder is not in any Chrisitian religious text. Please discuss the meaning of Easter and the Eucharist with your priest or pastor.

DP. So that is a yes. Btw the meaning of Easter is to celebrate Jesus rising. You keep claiming that in Christianity Passover = Easter. It does not.

to clarify: there IS no passover Seder in Christianity because seders are Jewish, not Christian. The way you connect to Exodus and the Last Supper is through Easter and the Eucharist. A Christian seder is either an oxymoron or changing the seder into the story of Jesus. In which case, it is not a seder, it is Easter.

Thanks PP! I’ll let my church know that our Passover celebration doesn’t exist! It’s not in the Bible because you say so. The sermons and Bible verses describing the exodus are all a big misunderstanding! Good to know!

Great! Be a voice for education, not ignorance.

Haha! Any other changes you’d like to make Christian faith while you’re at it? Anything else to delete from the Bible?

[Anonymous]

Once again: no one is telling you to delete anything from the Bible!

How is this so hard to understand?

[Anonymous]

This reminds me of Mormons “converting” Holocaust victims posthumously. Why does everyone simultaneously hate us and want to appropriate us?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I also want to point out that most of the specifications around how we do the Seder aren’t in the Torah at all (the only overlap we have, textually, between us and Christians). They’re in the Talmud, the primary text of Rabbinical Judaism, which specifies traditional Jewish laws.

So by taking those specifications and putting Jesus in it, you’re literally drawing from a completely *Jewish* legal text. You’re not even taking from the Bible at all.

There are very specific symbolic links between the Seder and Christian Faith. https://www.gotquestions.org/Passover-Seder.html

That’s not the Passover Seder as Jews celebrate it. Again, that did not exist until after Jesus died.

Let me be more specific: What that article does is insert Christian meaning into something that did not exist during Jesus’s time and which has nothing to do with Jesus.

The actual Passover Seder, per se was not practiced during Jesus’ time, but everything celebrated in the Seder was known to him and understood by Christians to point to him.

so in your view, when Jews celebrate their seders tonight, they are actually pointing towards Jesus?

No, in my view they are not. But I can see how Christians who’d like to celebrate it in their homes interpret it in terms of Jesus.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I also want to point out that most of the specifications around how we do the Seder aren’t in the Torah at all (the only overlap we have, textually, between us and Christians). They’re in the Talmud, the primary text of Rabbinical Judaism, which specifies traditional Jewish laws.

So by taking those specifications and putting Jesus in it, you’re literally drawing from a completely *Jewish* legal text. You’re not even taking from the Bible at all.

There are very specific symbolic links between the Seder and Christian Faith. https://www.gotquestions.org/Passover-Seder.html

That’s not the Passover Seder as Jews celebrate it. Again, that did not exist until after Jesus died.

Let me be more specific: What that article does is insert Christian meaning into something that did not exist during Jesus’s time and which has nothing to do with Jesus.

The actual Passover Seder, per se was not practiced during Jesus’ time, but everything celebrated in the Seder was known to him and understood by Christians to point to him.

This is factually wrong. The rabbinical Seder was not developed until after he died.

How is it factually wrong? Just because Jesus was not alive when the Passover Seder tradition started does not mean the elements within the Seder don’t hold religious significance to Christians. For instance, “(For Christians) the meaning of the Seder’s ritual of the matzohs is understood with clues from the New Testament. The Trinity is pictured in the matzohs. The first matzoh that remains in the bag throughout the Seder represents Ha Av, the Father whom no man sees. The third matzoh represents the Ruach Ha Kodesh, the Holy Spirit who dwells within us. And the second matzoh, the broken one, represents Ha Ben, the Son. The reason the middle matzoh is broken is to picture the broken body of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:24). The half put back in the echad represents Jesus’ divine nature; the other half, wrapped in a linen cloth and separated from the echad represents Jesus’ humanity as He remained on earth.“

It’s wrong because you’re imposing Christian meaning onto something that did not exist at that time. It’s religious appropriation.

Then the entire Christian religion is religious appropriation because all Christians impose Christian meaning on the Tanakh. And Mormons and Muslims have appropriated Judaism too.

[Anonymous]

NP.
For awareness, the Christian bible has two parts - the Old Testament (from the Jewish texts) and New Testament (based on the life and teachings of Jesus).
Most churches will read one passage from the Old Testament and then two passages from the New Testament, weaving the old teachings with the new teachings. Most Christians are familiar with the Old Testament and Passover.
This is why most Christians do not see having a Passover Seder as “cultural appropriation” because it is part of the Christian heritage.
If none of the Jewish texts / Old Testament mattered, it would not be included in the Christian bible.
Just because salvation is through belief in Christ does not mean the entire Old Testament is invalid. There is wisdom to be gained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This reminds me of Mormons “converting” Holocaust victims posthumously. Why does everyone simultaneously hate us and want to appropriate us?

Maybe because you are God’s chosen people?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.

Most of us don't!

I know of ZERO Christians who host Seders. BUT, I know of MANY, MANY, MANY Jews how have Christmas trees!!

Whoa. Calm down.

First of all, just because you don’t know any doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Second, a Christmas tree is hardly equivalent to a Passover Seder.

Right... Because it doesn’t impact your religion so it doesn’t matter.

Hardly. First of all, most Jewish families don’t have a Christmas tree. Interfaith families do, but hardly any wholly Jewish families.

Second, the Christmas tree is not a religious symbol. It’s not like a nativity scene.

Thank you for clarifying what is a religious symbol for Christians! I’ll follow your lead and clarify what you should consider a religious symbol in Judaism, sounds good?

If a Christmas tree is generally considered a religious symbol, please provide evidence of such, and I’ll gladly admit I was wrong. We’ve provided ample evidence of why it’s inappropriate for Christians to have a Christian Seder.

Your evidence is that Christians should trash half their holy book because many prophets and traditions overlap with Judaism. You keep saying Passover is Easter when it is not. You want to erase half of the Christian tradition because you think the stories in the Old Testament/Torah/Qran belong only to Jews. That’s a nonstarter. I do not accept that Passover that is described in the Bible amounts to appropriation or that it is Easter—a separate holiday.

Dude. Where is the Passover Seder in the bible? Where is the matzoh, the charoset, the bitter herbs dipped in salt water? The Passover seder is a Jewish religious rite. The Christian religious rites centered around the story of Exodus and Jesus’s Last Supper, and the analogy of Jesus to the lamb sacrificed to save the Israelites is Easter. Full stop. In addition you have the Eucharist if you are Catholic or your church has communion. Nobody is saying you cannot celebrate Easter.

It’s in Exodus.

I can understand that the term Seder has specific meaning relating to reading the Haggadah and specific blessings and traditions. Since Christians aren’t doing that, I can see why you wouldn’t want them calling their Passover meal a Seder. However, I do not understand trying to erase Passover from the Bible and Christianity. It is not Easter.

Would you prefer that Christians call their Passover meal a Passover supper? This is actually what most churches do btw.

for the kajillionth time nobody is erasing Exodus. the seder is not in any Chrisitian religious text. Please discuss the meaning of Easter and the Eucharist with your priest or pastor.

DP. So that is a yes. Btw the meaning of Easter is to celebrate Jesus rising. You keep claiming that in Christianity Passover = Easter. It does not.

to clarify: there IS no passover Seder in Christianity because seders are Jewish, not Christian. The way you connect to Exodus and the Last Supper is through Easter and the Eucharist. A Christian seder is either an oxymoron or changing the seder into the story of Jesus. In which case, it is not a seder, it is Easter.

Thanks PP! I’ll let my church know that our Passover celebration doesn’t exist! It’s not in the Bible because you say so. The sermons and Bible verses describing the exodus are all a big misunderstanding! Good to know!

that’s literally the opposite of what I wrote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP.
For awareness, the Christian bible has two parts - the Old Testament (from the Jewish texts) and New Testament (based on the life and teachings of Jesus).
Most churches will read one passage from the Old Testament and then two passages from the New Testament, weaving the old teachings with the new teachings. Most Christians are familiar with the Old Testament and Passover.
This is why most Christians do not see having a Passover Seder as “cultural appropriation” because it is part of the Christian heritage.
If none of the Jewish texts / Old Testament mattered, it would not be included in the Christian bible.
Just because salvation is through belief in Christ does not mean the entire Old Testament is invalid. There is wisdom to be gained.

the Seder is not Christian. That is the topic of this post. We know that the story of Exodus, the symbol of Jesus as the paschal lamb, and the last supper are part of Christianity. You may find them in Easter and the eucharist. That has zero, zip, nada to do with the Jewish rite of the seder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. And Jews should not celebrate Christmas, either.

Most of us don't!

I know of ZERO Christians who host Seders. BUT, I know of MANY, MANY, MANY Jews how have Christmas trees!!

Whoa. Calm down.

First of all, just because you don’t know any doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Second, a Christmas tree is hardly equivalent to a Passover Seder.

Right... Because it doesn’t impact your religion so it doesn’t matter.

Hardly. First of all, most Jewish families don’t have a Christmas tree. Interfaith families do, but hardly any wholly Jewish families.

Second, the Christmas tree is not a religious symbol. It’s not like a nativity scene.

Thank you for clarifying what is a religious symbol for Christians! I’ll follow your lead and clarify what you should consider a religious symbol in Judaism, sounds good?

If a Christmas tree is generally considered a religious symbol, please provide evidence of such, and I’ll gladly admit I was wrong. We’ve provided ample evidence of why it’s inappropriate for Christians to have a Christian Seder.

Your evidence is that Christians should trash half their holy book because many prophets and traditions overlap with Judaism. You keep saying Passover is Easter when it is not. You want to erase half of the Christian tradition because you think the stories in the Old Testament/Torah/Qran belong only to Jews. That’s a nonstarter. I do not accept that Passover that is described in the Bible amounts to appropriation or that it is Easter—a separate holiday.

Dude. Where is the Passover Seder in the bible? Where is the matzoh, the charoset, the bitter herbs dipped in salt water? The Passover seder is a Jewish religious rite. The Christian religious rites centered around the story of Exodus and Jesus’s Last Supper, and the analogy of Jesus to the lamb sacrificed to save the Israelites is Easter. Full stop. In addition you have the Eucharist if you are Catholic or your church has communion. Nobody is saying you cannot celebrate Easter.

It’s in Exodus.

I can understand that the term Seder has specific meaning relating to reading the Haggadah and specific blessings and traditions. Since Christians aren’t doing that, I can see why you wouldn’t want them calling their Passover meal a Seder. However, I do not understand trying to erase Passover from the Bible and Christianity. It is not Easter.

Would you prefer that Christians call their Passover meal a Passover supper? This is actually what most churches do btw.

for the kajillionth time nobody is erasing Exodus. the seder is not in any Chrisitian religious text. Please discuss the meaning of Easter and the Eucharist with your priest or pastor.

DP. So that is a yes. Btw the meaning of Easter is to celebrate Jesus rising. You keep claiming that in Christianity Passover = Easter. It does not.

to clarify: there IS no passover Seder in Christianity because seders are Jewish, not Christian. The way you connect to Exodus and the Last Supper is through Easter and the Eucharist. A Christian seder is either an oxymoron or changing the seder into the story of Jesus. In which case, it is not a seder, it is Easter.

Thanks PP! I’ll let my church know that our Passover celebration doesn’t exist! It’s not in the Bible because you say so. The sermons and Bible verses describing the exodus are all a big misunderstanding! Good to know!

Great! Be a voice for education, not ignorance.

Haha! Any other changes you’d like to make Christian faith while you’re at it? Anything else to delete from the Bible?

Crazy, you don't even understand the difference between the "Old" Testament and the Tanakh....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This reminds me of Mormons “converting” Holocaust victims posthumously. Why does everyone simultaneously hate us and want to appropriate us?

Maybe because you are God’s chosen people?

Chosen for Christians for rape, death, and dismemberment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This reminds me of Mormons “converting” Holocaust victims posthumously. Why does everyone simultaneously hate us and want to appropriate us?

Maybe because you are God’s chosen people?

Chosen for Christians for rape, death, and dismemberment?

Yup. You’ve treated us like crap for 2000 years. The Catholic Church didn’t even switch its position on us killing Jesus until 1965.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP.
For awareness, the Christian bible has two parts - the Old Testament (from the Jewish texts) and New Testament (based on the life and teachings of Jesus).
Most churches will read one passage from the Old Testament and then two passages from the New Testament, weaving the old teachings with the new teachings. Most Christians are familiar with the Old Testament and Passover.
This is why most Christians do not see having a Passover Seder as “cultural appropriation” because it is part of the Christian heritage.
If none of the Jewish texts / Old Testament mattered, it would not be included in the Christian bible.
Just because salvation is through belief in Christ does not mean the entire Old Testament is invalid. There is wisdom to be gained.

the Seder is not Christian. That is the topic of this post. We know that the story of Exodus, the symbol of Jesus as the paschal lamb, and the last supper are part of Christianity. You may find them in Easter and the eucharist. That has zero, zip, nada to do with the Jewish rite of the seder.

PP you quoted. I never stated Passover equals Easter.
Christians also know Passover from their Old Testament- which has nothing to do with Jesus.