Daughter's Behavior Toward Parent/Family and Attitude vs Gratitude

[Anonymous]

op, fix the relationship. Go to therapy with her and send her to therapy on her own.

My teens do not call their grandparents out of the blue, I don't know anyone who does.

You are really a mess here. She has clearly worked very hard and you have unrealistic expectations and then you kind of avoided facing the problems in your relationship with her until NOW when it is down to the wire and she needs something. And you say you give unconditional support, but you very clearly want people to tell you that it is okay that you don't want to pay for college because she is rude to you.

Grow up. Be the parent and get both of you in therapy. You and your ex should have been working on parenting your child and addressing her anger (and she sounds very anger) and fixing the relationship with her for years now and you both screwed up.

[Anonymous]

At this point it is hard to know if your daughter is just not a nice person and is selfish and hurtful. She may grow out of that but there are also a lot of adults who are selfish hurtful adults - so this may just be her personality. She doesn't' really seem to have empathy.

On the other hand she could be a very angry young woman due to the events of her life and once away at college, she will grow up and figure out how to work through her anger.
It also seems she is very spoiled and entitled. That can happen to teens of divorce if parents bend over backwards out of guilt to try and give them everything and make them the center of everything.

That said, I don't think you ever need to let people treat you badly. That includes your almost adult daughter. It sets a really bad example for her to be allowed to emotionally abuse you with no consequence. You can absolutely set some boundaries. I wouldn't put financial support as an ultimatum or carrot. That will only fuel her anger and selfishness and it makes you look petty. I also don't think you need to be the Bank of Dad. I would tell her how much you are contributing to her education. Find a number that is reasonable and doable for you. It doesn't need to pay 100%. She can work, take out loans, get FA, money from mom etc. Don't be abused into giving her whatever she asks.

At this point you aren't going to be able to make her act any differently. You need to give her a couple years to grow up and see where she is at then. Be supportive but set boundaries. If she is still a pretty awful person in a couple years, then that may just be who she is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, sounds like a pretty standard teenage girl. She’ll be like that until mid-20s, then she’ll lighten up, and when she has kids of her own one day she’ll call you up to apologize. Having kids is thankless, and if you had one because you wanted to feel special and included, you need to re-examine your reasons for having kids. You’re complaining about thank you notes? Seriously? Nobody even writes those anymore. And she probably doesn’t tell you about the negative things in her life because you don’t react in a way that teenage girls want.

If your financial support is contingent on her playing the daughter role that makes you look and feel good.....well, she’s probably better off without you. Not a fan of teaching females that they need to make men feel special in exchange for monetary support.

My kids write thank you notes. They write them immediately after they open them. We have friends kids in college we send packages to. We almost always get a thank you note. Its good parenting.

Right. This didn't just happen by itself.

OP - your daughter may be awful. She didn't get there on her own. Now is a lousy time to change the rules.

[Anonymous]

Are you a female OP? I get that you are divorced, but the voice I hear reading your post sounds female. You are clearly the outsider in this relationship no matter what. I would advise you to pay up and distance yourself. The girl has relegated you in terms of dollars and you apparently gave no other purpose for now. If I were generous, I would say she has anxiety about your willingness to pay for college and her attitude might adjust once that issue is settled. I’m not really convinced though. She clearly has an erroneous belief in her position in the family and the time to fix that is long passed. I think you are stuck with either the choice of waiting until he’ll freezes over or moving on now. I don’t think you can have the money either way so you need to accept that loss.

[Anonymous]

Have
Hell

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are acting like the divorce has nothing to do with this behavior and that's very ignorant of you.

+1. This sounds like normal teen + unresolved anger over divorce lashing out haphazardly. Yes, teens know exactly how to push parents’ buttons, but she does seem more angry than perhaps normal in that you don’t come back to a loving understanding place after the lashing out. I would expect a 17 yo who really crosses the line to a mean place to feel bad about it later, after the emotion is past, and “make up”/apologize. Sounds like your kid has some emotional grievances that you haven’t worked out. Most likely left from the divorce, but could be something else too. Therapy could help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:op, fix the relationship. Go to therapy with her and send her to therapy on her own.

My teens do not call their grandparents out of the blue, I don't know anyone who does.

You are really a mess here. She has clearly worked very hard and you have unrealistic expectations and then you kind of avoided facing the problems in your relationship with her until NOW when it is down to the wire and she needs something. And you say you give unconditional support, but you very clearly want people to tell you that it is okay that you don't want to pay for college because she is rude to you.

Grow up. Be the parent and get both of you in therapy. You and your ex should have been working on parenting your child and addressing her anger (and she sounds very anger) and fixing the relationship with her for years now and you both screwed up.

I called my grandparents regularly as a teen. My kids call theirs. You are looking for excuses. A parent isn't obligated to pay for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you a female OP? I get that you are divorced, but the voice I hear reading your post sounds female. You are clearly the outsider in this relationship no matter what. I would advise you to pay up and distance yourself. The girl has relegated you in terms of dollars and you apparently gave no other purpose for now. If I were generous, I would say she has anxiety about your willingness to pay for college and her attitude might adjust once that issue is settled. I’m not really convinced though. She clearly has an erroneous belief in her position in the family and the time to fix that is long passed. I think you are stuck with either the choice of waiting until he’ll freezes over or moving on now. I don’t think you can have the money either way so you need to accept that loss.

What?

[Anonymous]

You are the evil stepmother and of course you didn’t want money to flow to your ex’s daughter. Honestly OP it looks like you are looking for a way not to pay. Your child is not a dog. She is a person and when you leave a marriage the collateral damage to kids is beyond something you could ever imagine. Even the way you talk about your ex. The only kids I see whom who can get beyond the divorce are parents who really work together and support each other. These are the parents who sit together at games and you wonder why they are divorced in first place. Your daughter is an excellent student and not into drugs. I can tell you have no idea who troubled some teens can be. Be grateful she is doing well. Make a point to be better yourself. It looks like she is wounded. Show her stability and love her even when she does not want to talk.

[Anonymous]

OP, I am so sorry. But, my guess is that this behavior did not emerge from a void.

Have you considered therapy? Has she gotten enough emotional support through the divorce?

Also, I think it's good to set boundaries. Rudeness is often born of being spoiled and feeling entitled. But, don't take away the college money. Take away her phone, ground her, end spending money. Start small with sanctions for inappropriate behavior. It is late to work on this, but hopefully not too late.

I do think you could limit financial contribution to state school cost, but maybe not focus on that at all. It will come across as a withdrawal of support.

Hang in there.

PS. My kids are always willing to talk to grandparents, sometimes call and always glad to see them. I don't think your expectations are unrealistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a 17 year old going through what yours is going through - I understand why you are upset but I also agree with a PP that said you can't and shouldn't fix a lifelong problem (never thanking anyone, for example) with denying a college opportunity that you can afford.

If it were me (and it is in some ways) I would say you are willing to pay and do it and would like her to attend some family counseling with you to try to mend your relationship before she goes off to school.

This is excellent advice -- baby steps, OP. Start working on the relationship, try to correct some behaviors, but start small. She didn't get like this overnight, so take some time to fix it and don't invoke the nuclear option of not paying or college. Get family counseling and separately, get a parent coach for yourself to see how you can start to change things. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a 17 year old going through what yours is going through - I understand why you are upset but I also agree with a PP that said you can't and shouldn't fix a lifelong problem (never thanking anyone, for example) with denying a college opportunity that you can afford.

If it were me (and it is in some ways) I would say you are willing to pay and do it and would like her to attend some family counseling with you to try to mend your relationship before she goes off to school.

This is excellent advice -- baby steps, OP. Start working on the relationship, try to correct some behaviors, but start small. She didn't get like this overnight, so take some time to fix it and don't invoke the nuclear option of not paying or college. Get family counseling and separately, get a parent coach for yourself to see how you can start to change things. Good luck.

+1. You're being extremely disproportionate and short-sighed, OP. Torpedo her college education and the relationship will be broken, likely forever. If being rude and not writing thank-you notes is a problem, you should have addressed it with PROPORTIONAL consequences at the time. Not saving up all your resentment and damaging her future all of a sudden.

Agree that she is likely angry about the divorce and wanting her parents to experience some unpleasantness like the unpleasantness they put her through. OP needs to face up to his role in creating this situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m having trouble reconciling my D17’s behavior and attitude toward family, and gratitude in general, with large expenses - including college.

She is currently a senior and applying to colleges. She is a stellar student; 4.3GPA, a national champion in a prestigious academic activity, a 1530 SAT score, and an impressive internship.

She is applying to the absolute top Ivy’s and will apply to her 1st choice early action. I think she has a great chance of getting in. Her mother and I are divorced and is claiming she has no money so I’m sure I’ll be expected to pay any out of pocket costs.

My daughter is a normal teenager in so many ways; headphones in, phone in hand, eyes on screen, mumbled answers to questions, always in her room with the door closed, clipped conversations, etc, etc. Some good days and conversations are interspersed but the majority of the time it’s the former.

Fine. I don’t like it but I get it; Teenagers. Whatever. But there’s more to it, and here’s my conundrum:

She has a history of being absolutely VICIOUS and personally attacking toward me (and her mother) when she’s angry.

- This is far beyond teen temper tantrums. This is biting and calculated with obvious thought behind it so to be as hurtful as possible.
- The things she has said in these situations are by FAR the worst things anyone has ever said to me (her mother feels the same way). I never would have CONCEIVED of talking to my parents that way.
- Past episodes have ruined a trip to Europe, a family Christmas visit, and were a blight on a trip to Boston (which was for her).
- On a recent trip to visit family she brought her aunt to tears by being so rude and disrespectful.

She rarely has shown me gratitude, or anyone else for that matter.

- She has never written a thank you note to anyone for anything, despite my constant urgings.
- She is always asking for money for herself and things like Mother’s Day, Mom’s Birthday, etc. But I know for a fact that her mom gave her some money to get me a little something for my birthday (I don’t ever care about getting presents), but she just texted “Happy birthday” without a card or just offering to spend a couple of hours with me. Instead, she spent the money on herself.

She makes no effort to include me or extended family in her life.

- I know it’s probably the age, but she will barely have a conversation with me - ever.
- She refuses to tell either her mom or me about any negative aspects of her life.
- When I ask her to pick up the phone to say hello to grandparents, or aunts, she protests and is often “too busy” - but this has gotten slightly better recently. I just insist because that’s non-negotiable.
- Despite the fact that she has never once called her grandparents of her own volition, and only spends time with them once a year when forced to, she asked me “Do you think they would help pay for college?” I simply said “Well, you can call and ask.”
- I have been asking her to set a time when we can go to dinner to celebrate a couple of achievements (2mos ago). She has little interest and keeps scheduling things with friends instead.

Lastly; the other day when I wanted to talk about college with her and simply be included in the discussion, she said in a snotty tone…

“Why? You don’t need to know anything because this is my thing, and mom and I already have it handled. You don’t need to be part of the process because it’s more work for me to tell you AND mom what’s going on. All I need from you is to tell me how much money you make, how much you have, and how much you’re willing to pay”.

This is the key point. She is sick and tired of being a child of divorce. It's a constant stressor and a lot of extra work, especially if you and your ex don't co-parent well. She's standing up to you and putting the negative aspects of divorce right where they belong, on the people who chose to divorce. As teens grow up, they come to realize how much it will suck to be an adult child of divorce forever and ever, and it's hard for them. She's probably re-processing the divorce as she mentally prepares to leave the household.

As for her behavior, you're the parent so take responsibility for it. You've let her get away with bad behavior for years. Why would you think you can change it now?

[Anonymous]

Is the college payment agreement not covered in your divorce settlement? I think you and ex should work through that independent of the child. Insist on filing FAFSA so both of you have to produce financial documents. Ex saying she “can’t” pay is not sufficient. That said, you need to work on the relationship. I do see a lot of typical teen attitude (exacerbated by divorce) in your description but the extreme anger and outbursts are NOT typical and the backtalk is way out of line.

Don’t tie your financial support for education to her behavior. But you can continue to express your expectations and adjust “extra” spending money accordingly. Ungrateful for trips? Guess you don’t want them. Gifts? Scale back. Spending money? No. Trust has been broken. Continue to express sadness that she’s shutting you out but that you love her and hope she’ll come to see that when she’s older and can look at it with more maturity.

[Anonymous]

Your daughter sounds pretty horrible. Plenty of things are 'standard teenage girl' but speaking to family and extended family like shit isn't one of them. Can't stand ungrateful pos kids.