Daughter's Behavior Toward Parent/Family and Attitude vs Gratitude

[Anonymous]

I’m having trouble reconciling my D17’s behavior and attitude toward family, and gratitude in general, with large expenses - including college.

She is currently a senior and applying to colleges. She is a stellar student; 4.3GPA, a national champion in a prestigious academic activity, a 1530 SAT score, and an impressive internship.

She is applying to the absolute top Ivy’s and will apply to her 1st choice early action. I think she has a great chance of getting in. Her mother and I are divorced and is claiming she has no money so I’m sure I’ll be expected to pay any out of pocket costs.

My daughter is a normal teenager in so many ways; headphones in, phone in hand, eyes on screen, mumbled answers to questions, always in her room with the door closed, clipped conversations, etc, etc. Some good days and conversations are interspersed but the majority of the time it’s the former.

Fine. I don’t like it but I get it; Teenagers. Whatever. But there’s more to it, and here’s my conundrum:

She has a history of being absolutely VICIOUS and personally attacking toward me (and her mother) when she’s angry.

- This is far beyond teen temper tantrums. This is biting and calculated with obvious thought behind it so to be as hurtful as possible.
- The things she has said in these situations are by FAR the worst things anyone has ever said to me (her mother feels the same way). I never would have CONCEIVED of talking to my parents that way.
- Past episodes have ruined a trip to Europe, a family Christmas visit, and were a blight on a trip to Boston (which was for her).
- On a recent trip to visit family she brought her aunt to tears by being so rude and disrespectful.

She rarely has shown me gratitude, or anyone else for that matter.

- She has never written a thank you note to anyone for anything, despite my constant urgings.
- She is always asking for money for herself and things like Mother’s Day, Mom’s Birthday, etc. But I know for a fact that her mom gave her some money to get me a little something for my birthday (I don’t ever care about getting presents), but she just texted “Happy birthday” without a card or just offering to spend a couple of hours with me. Instead, she spent the money on herself.

She makes no effort to include me or extended family in her life.

- I know it’s probably the age, but she will barely have a conversation with me - ever.
- She refuses to tell either her mom or me about any negative aspects of her life.
- When I ask her to pick up the phone to say hello to grandparents, or aunts, she protests and is often “too busy” - but this has gotten slightly better recently. I just insist because that’s non-negotiable.
- Despite the fact that she has never once called her grandparents of her own volition, and only spends time with them once a year when forced to, she asked me “Do you think they would help pay for college?” I simply said “Well, you can call and ask.”
- I have been asking her to set a time when we can go to dinner to celebrate a couple of achievements (2mos ago). She has little interest and keeps scheduling things with friends instead.

Lastly; the other day when I wanted to talk about college with her and simply be included in the discussion, she said in a snotty tone…

“Why? You don’t need to know anything because this is my thing, and mom and I already have it handled. You don’t need to be part of the process because it’s more work for me to tell you AND mom what’s going on. All I need from you is to tell me how much money you make, how much you have, and how much you’re willing to pay”.

Wow. I told her not to speak to me that way and you can imagine where it went from there.

The message I have always tried to teach her is this:

People are committed to that which they are a part of.

Your family will be there for you, but you need to be there for your family. The only thing your parents, grandparents, and extended family want from you is a bit of your time and your love; not gifts, presents, or things. Just allow us to share in your happiness and be there for you when you're down and you'll have a mountain of support and love to stand on.

So the bottom line, and my question... Do you think this position is unreasonable:

My love and emotional support are unconditional, and there is nothing that will ever change that. I will be there for you whenever and wherever you need me. The door to our home (my home will always be yours as well) and my heart are always open to you.

But my material and financial support are 100% conditional. If you continue to disrespect, marginalize, even exclude me from your life, and make me feel so hurt and insignificant, then don’t expect much financial or material support. You can’t disrespect someone and then ask for their money.

Thanks for your time - sorry this got a bit long.

[Anonymous]

Conditional is conditional. You really can't parse the financial support from the emotional support. That just doesn't work with human beings. You can't buy her attention or gratitude anymore than you can buy her love.

[Anonymous]

At 17, it is a bit late to address this, don't you think? Sure you can refuse to complete FA forms or pay anything towards college expenses, but isn't that really just some petty cheapness and a last-ditch-effort power play?

[Anonymous]

You are acting like the divorce has nothing to do with this behavior and that's very ignorant of you.

[Anonymous]

Disagree strongly with PP. Not unreasonable AT ALL. Yes she is a teenager and they all have their moments but that does NOT mean you are not allowed to call them on it and withhold financial support if they refuse to do even the bare minimum.

[Anonymous]

"Her mother and I are divorced and is claiming she has no money so I’m sure I’ll be expected to pay any out of pocket costs. "

Your attitude toward your amazing-sounding child's potentially stellar college education sucks. I'd be disgusted with you too.

[Anonymous]

My husband's daughter behaved like that. We think a lot had to do with the mom. She wasn't required to provide Dad's income and only used mom's income. Dad said I want the acceptance letter, financial information and to discuss with you how much mom is contributing, and wanted a copy and grades. Child refused to provide the information so we suspect she got a full ride. They refused to provide any information. She does not need your income information to apply. She can get a job to pay expenses.

[Anonymous]

It’s a tough one and I sympathize with you a lot. Given how the effective price (not the sticker price) for colleges in US is determined, you can’t really leave her without any money from you, and you are probably obligated to pay something under your divorce agreement. However, it is totally reasonable to offer to pay up to instate college costs, and let her figure out the rest on her own.

[Anonymous]

I have a 17 year old going through what yours is going through - I understand why you are upset but I also agree with a PP that said you can't and shouldn't fix a lifelong problem (never thanking anyone, for example) with denying a college opportunity that you can afford.

If it were me (and it is in some ways) I would say you are willing to pay and do it and would like her to attend some family counseling with you to try to mend your relationship before she goes off to school.

[Anonymous]

That's hard, OP. I was your daughter. Child of divorce. I tested Dad with vitriol to see if he'd abandon me for good - and he did. We didn't have a real relationship until my mid-20s. I was very angry about my entire post-divorce life - was angry at Mom too, but since she was the custodial parent, I didn't sh*t all over her the way I did to Dad. Hated that my peers has loving, intact families and I had to split weekends, divide holidays, etc. I wanted him to suffer like I was. The right therapist would have helped me, but I hated them too.

[Anonymous]

Wow. I was kind of your daughter, a less hostile version at least.

Do you know the stats on children of divorce and academic achievement? What your daughter has done is truly exceptional. I am sure you have provided support, but the statistics are damning...And she deserves more credit than you are giving her. It sounds like the effort she would otherwise out into her family has been channeled purely into academics, a safe zone compared to her family life. Why do you blame her for that? Why are you angry at her?

She did not choose to be born or have a divided home. Try to give her more love. She clearly needs it. Are you even proud of her?

[Anonymous]

OP, I would seriously consider therapy to work on your own issues.

You need to let this go. Even what you describe as her attitude doesn't sound that bad to me, but also, conditional is conditional.

Let it go, let her go, let her go to college and mature into the smart young woman she will likely become, and if you give her space she will come to gratitude in her own time without it being forced upon her.

[Anonymous]

You were my FIL twenty years ago. He has no relationship with our family now. He has never even met two of his grandchildren.

[Anonymous]

Girls are hard. I don't know why people say sons are hard, because girls will get on your last nerve.

I get what you're saying. But I am here to tell you that whatever you do, don't get in the way of her college plans. Things change in the blink of an eye. If you threaten to not provide the funds for college because you don't like her attitude, she might drop college plans. And maybe never go to college, talent and ability notwithstanding. If you think you're aggravated now, wait for the time when she's working at some dead-end job five years from now, hanging with people with all sorts of problems, and you can't do a thing about it. You will want to tear your hair out, I promise you.

Tune out her bad attitude. Grit your teeth and remind yourself she will be off to school and out of your hair soon enough. Maybe down the road she will gain some maturity, her attitude will change and she will become more appreciative. But these are the years that impact the remainder of her life. So don't get in the way of her college plans, no matter how offensive and insulting she is. I promise you, you will not regret it down the road.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry, OP. This is sometimes what hormonal, intelligent and unkind people can do. We can say it's within the range of normal for a hormonal teen, we can speculate on how unhappy she might be, how the divorce of her parents affected her psyche, etc, but at the end of the day it's just rude and scheming of her. I am concerned that this is an expression of extreme stress and self-focus with all the achievements she's had and is working on.

You need to call her out every time, and explain how her comments are hurtful and un-necessary to get her point across. Suggest a therapist FOR HER. Examine whether her schedule is too packed. Talk directly about how she needs to think of others and be more kind. Tell her you won't give her money for gifts since you know she's been lying to you and that's a huge breach of trust. Lying to her parent is a terrible thing.