Daughter's Behavior Toward Parent/Family and Attitude vs Gratitude

[Anonymous]

Eh, sounds like a pretty standard teenage girl. She’ll be like that until mid-20s, then she’ll lighten up, and when she has kids of her own one day she’ll call you up to apologize. Having kids is thankless, and if you had one because you wanted to feel special and included, you need to re-examine your reasons for having kids. You’re complaining about thank you notes? Seriously? Nobody even writes those anymore. And she probably doesn’t tell you about the negative things in her life because you don’t react in a way that teenage girls want.

If your financial support is contingent on her playing the daughter role that makes you look and feel good.....well, she’s probably better off without you. Not a fan of teaching females that they need to make men feel special in exchange for monetary support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Eh, sounds like a pretty standard teenage girl. She’ll be like that until mid-20s, then she’ll lighten up, and when she has kids of her own one day she’ll call you up to apologize. Having kids is thankless, and if you had one because you wanted to feel special and included, you need to re-examine your reasons for having kids. You’re complaining about thank you notes? Seriously? Nobody even writes those anymore. And she probably doesn’t tell you about the negative things in her life because you don’t react in a way that teenage girls want.

If your financial support is contingent on her playing the daughter role that makes you look and feel good.....well, she’s probably better off without you. Not a fan of teaching females that they need to make men feel special in exchange for monetary support.

My kids write thank you notes. They write them immediately after they open them. We have friends kids in college we send packages to. We almost always get a thank you note. Its good parenting.

[Anonymous]

I could have written your post 15 years ago when my DD was that age. Same situation with divorce & attitude. I had the exact perspective and comments to DD (love is unconditional, money is not). What she heard & understood was that I wasn’t going to be there for her. It took over a decade to repair our relationship. I so regretted having taken a hard stance and being rigid. I paid off her college loans a few years out of college. She’s 32 now, we’re closer, but I’ve never stopped wishing I’d been a soft place to fall for her. Your DD is smart and awesome, but she’s being pissy now. Love her through it. Please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was the backstory with your divorce, OP? If you will be honest about it.... How much individual therapy and family therapy did your family have?

None of this matters.

It matters a TON in terms of DD’s attitude toward and relationship with OP, which is why he has an issue with paying for college and the whole point of the post. Basically, this probably matters more than just about everything else people have been discussing here.

[Anonymous]

I can’t believe all the people here saying she’s like this because of divorce or that her attitude is normal. My ex and I divorced and the kids and I spent hours sitting at a table with him discussing colleges and having group texts about them. This attitude would never have been tolerated!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I could have written your post 15 years ago when my DD was that age. Same situation with divorce & attitude. I had the exact perspective and comments to DD (love is unconditional, money is not). What she heard & understood was that I wasn’t going to be there for her. It took over a decade to repair our relationship. I so regretted having taken a hard stance and being rigid. I paid off her college loans a few years out of college. She’s 32 now, we’re closer, but I’ve never stopped wishing I’d been a soft place to fall for her. Your DD is smart and awesome, but she’s being pissy now. Love her through it. Please.

This. My DD has a fried who is in a similar position as your DD. I know that in her case, she has found her father unreliable. He has flitted in and out of her life. Sometimes wanting a relationship, then other times cancelling plans. Generally proved himself to be unreliable. Take a hard look at whether her anger is justified. Even if you've been an excellent co-parent, did you and her mom screw up her family life? Did you handle the divorce with her interests being paramount or did you fight about money and litigate your divorce for years. The facts surrounding the divorce DO MATTER. Only you know all the adversity you DD has overcome. If she's lashing out at you, she may have a reason. If she hasn't learned to put others' interests above her own, she may have learned that from you. Maybe not. . . but I think loving her through it, while asking her to be kinder is the way to go.

[Anonymous]

Clearly she is unpleasant, and skilled at being hurtful. If you don’t think that is related to your marriage breaking up, you are nuts.

When I read your post, I see a ton of blame but no sense of responsibility on your part. Be careful.

[Anonymous]

I hear an almost-adult who is tired and overwhelmed.

The line that stood out was that she didn’t want to have to explain it all again to you. Think about that, how much more complicated this all is with the divorce, and how stressful it is already. She’s learning how to handle it. Loving her unconditionally means accepting that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m having trouble reconciling my D17’s behavior and attitude toward family, and gratitude in general, with large expenses - including college.

She is currently a senior and applying to colleges. She is a stellar student; 4.3GPA, a national champion in a prestigious academic activity, a 1530 SAT score, and an impressive internship.

She is applying to the absolute top Ivy’s and will apply to her 1st choice early action. I think she has a great chance of getting in. Her mother and I are divorced and is claiming she has no money so I’m sure I’ll be expected to pay any out of pocket costs.

My daughter is a normal teenager in so many ways; headphones in, phone in hand, eyes on screen, mumbled answers to questions, always in her room with the door closed, clipped conversations, etc, etc. Some good days and conversations are interspersed but the majority of the time it’s the former.

Fine. I don’t like it but I get it; Teenagers. Whatever. But there’s more to it, and here’s my conundrum:

She has a history of being absolutely VICIOUS and personally attacking toward me (and her mother) when she’s angry.

- This is far beyond teen temper tantrums. This is biting and calculated with obvious thought behind it so to be as hurtful as possible.
- The things she has said in these situations are by FAR the worst things anyone has ever said to me (her mother feels the same way). I never would have CONCEIVED of talking to my parents that way.
- Past episodes have ruined a trip to Europe, a family Christmas visit, and were a blight on a trip to Boston (which was for her).
- On a recent trip to visit family she brought her aunt to tears by being so rude and disrespectful.

She rarely has shown me gratitude, or anyone else for that matter.

- She has never written a thank you note to anyone for anything, despite my constant urgings.
- She is always asking for money for herself and things like Mother’s Day, Mom’s Birthday, etc. But I know for a fact that her mom gave her some money to get me a little something for my birthday (I don’t ever care about getting presents), but she just texted “Happy birthday” without a card or just offering to spend a couple of hours with me. Instead, she spent the money on herself.

She makes no effort to include me or extended family in her life.

- I know it’s probably the age, but she will barely have a conversation with me - ever.
- She refuses to tell either her mom or me about any negative aspects of her life.
- When I ask her to pick up the phone to say hello to grandparents, or aunts, she protests and is often “too busy” - but this has gotten slightly better recently. I just insist because that’s non-negotiable.
- Despite the fact that she has never once called her grandparents of her own volition, and only spends time with them once a year when forced to, she asked me “Do you think they would help pay for college?” I simply said “Well, you can call and ask.”
- I have been asking her to set a time when we can go to dinner to celebrate a couple of achievements (2mos ago). She has little interest and keeps scheduling things with friends instead.

Lastly; the other day when I wanted to talk about college with her and simply be included in the discussion, she said in a snotty tone…

“Why? You don’t need to know anything because this is my thing, and mom and I already have it handled. You don’t need to be part of the process because it’s more work for me to tell you AND mom what’s going on. All I need from you is to tell me how much money you make, how much you have, and how much you’re willing to pay”.

Wow. I told her not to speak to me that way and you can imagine where it went from there.

The message I have always tried to teach her is this:

People are committed to that which they are a part of.

Your family will be there for you, but you need to be there for your family. The only thing your parents, grandparents, and extended family want from you is a bit of your time and your love; not gifts, presents, or things. Just allow us to share in your happiness and be there for you when you're down and you'll have a mountain of support and love to stand on.

So the bottom line, and my question... Do you think this position is unreasonable:

My love and emotional support are unconditional, and there is nothing that will ever change that. I will be there for you whenever and wherever you need me. The door to our home (my home will always be yours as well) and my heart are always open to you.

But my material and financial support are 100% conditional. If you continue to disrespect, marginalize, even exclude me from your life, and make me feel so hurt and insignificant, then don’t expect much financial or material support. You can’t disrespect someone and then ask for their money.

Thanks for your time - sorry this got a bit long.

I'm sorry op but, to me you sound like the 17 year old. Most kids do not voluntarily call their grandparents. Mine don't and that does not make them a bad people. Grown-ups should be the ones reaching out first. I can honestly say that my mom and mil have not been interested in them as well. They have their own lives too and care about my kids but, they never call either. Does that mean the grandmothers are rude too?

It is so obvious your daughter is hurting and angry. Why not get to the bottom of the anger instead of threatening to disown her? You need to be the bigger person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good luck OP. My ex lied too about college and pocketed the checks I paid that was to go to school. She also lied about tie circumstances of our divorce at all times. I thought my DS would come around and be more even about everything as a young adult. He is polite to my face but I am an ATM to him.

My husband too. We only hear from them to demand money. The worst is one child's girlfriend turned wife who refuses to work. He married his mom.

dp This is none of your business, pp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe all the people here saying she’s like this because of divorce or that her attitude is normal. My ex and I divorced and the kids and I spent hours sitting at a table with him discussing colleges and having group texts about them. This attitude would never have been tolerated!

It sounds like you and your ex were on friendly terms, and everyone worked as a team for college planning. That’s great.

I don’t think that’s what OP is describing. It sounds like his DD and her mom have figured things out, and he’s upset that he wasn’t included. From his post, I can get a good idea why they would exclude him.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you put too much emphasis in achievement and not enough emphasis on empathy. It's too late now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I could have written your post 15 years ago when my DD was that age. Same situation with divorce & attitude. I had the exact perspective and comments to DD (love is unconditional, money is not). What she heard & understood was that I wasn’t going to be there for her. It took over a decade to repair our relationship. I so regretted having taken a hard stance and being rigid. I paid off her college loans a few years out of college. She’s 32 now, we’re closer, but I’ve never stopped wishing I’d been a soft place to fall for her. Your DD is smart and awesome, but she’s being pissy now. Love her through it. Please.

A million times this.

OP this is a relationship issue. It is not a character issue or a question of authority/discipline. Repair the relationship. Go to therapy alone if she wont go with you.

[Anonymous]

Expecting a child of a messy divorce who did not have extensive family and individual therapy to be emotionally mature and forgiving and loving towards her parents is like expecting a kid who has never had a lesson to start speaking Mandarin. If that was what you wanted from your child, it was on you to teach her how and provide the resources she needs to develop those skills. Kids don’t become mature and empathetic magically when they hit a certain age; they have to see those traits modeled by their parents and have help practicing them. Your expectations aren’t unreasonable for every teen, but they may be for your daughter.

You can decide to give up on having a relationship with her as an adult and cut her off so that you don’t waste any more money on someone you are choosing to cut out of your life. But if you want to continue to have a relationship with her, then refusing to pay for college at the last minute because she hurts your feelings is not going to get you there.

So what is your goal? Cutting her off so that she can’t hurt you again? Or keeping the relationship going.

[Anonymous]

I am the evil stepmom who put a stop to such behavior. Stepdaughter would do this to my husband all the time. Yes, good grades, volunteer work, but she was a total bitch to him. And to her mother. That poor woman really suffered. When time came to pay for college, they requested all of our financials. I said I wanted no part in that girl's education. I was not about to spend MY hard earned money on someone who treated me and her father like POS. She was ungrateful and rude. DH also pulled out. I also put a stop to the constant "give me money for this, give me money for that." Enough is enough. It's OK, she took out loans, like the rest of us. She also matured a little and stopped giving everyone around her the lip. People won't be putting up with your BS if you treat them like shit.