Forcing Adopted Asian Child to have Bat Mitzvah when Child Does not Want It

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Got a few ideas from this thread. She is very unhappy and she contacted me again and my daughter. This is escalating quickly.

The good news is my brother and SIL are looking into counseling and are rethinking things and allowing her to explore her heritage more. She is struggling in school too so they understand pushing Bat Mitzvah tutoring is adding to the stress. I am glad they both are open to listening to her more and they do truly care.My brother's whole tone has changed and is he feels bad that things have gotten to this point.

Feel free to continue the discussion if you like. I probably won't be popping in much more.

There sounds a lot more to this and it doesn't sound like this is a culture or heritage issue but an academic issue if she is struggling at school and tutoring. She's overwhelmed academically and that has nothing to do with a Bat Mitzvah. Instead of counseling they should do academic testing and address the real problem. If she's struggling that much, she may need academic tutors or easier classes. It sounds liked they have done a lot to keep up her culture. At that age its normal to question your identity but that doesn't sound like this is the situation and it sounds like its an academic issue.

OP here. Did want to address this too as it may help other families. She has been tested and does have intervention. As they became more serious about the Bat Mitzvah, they stopped with the Chinese cultural activities and she did not like that. It's complicated, but she is a great young lady who has been advocating for herself. I truly believe they are doing the right thing getting family counseling with someone sensitive to adoption issues and cultural diversity. I am not a fan of forcing something on a child that is not crucial to their development.

[Anonymous]

OP, I hope you played around with some facts here or else I think I know who your niece is...do you want that out here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was also wondering the same. Why mention that the kid is adopted, what does this have to do with bat mitzvah

When you go through the adoption process the social worker wants to make sure you will preserve the child's cultural identity as much as possible. The child's culture is supposed to supersede the parent's.

But one can be both Chinese—the ethnicity—and Jewish—the religion.

This is an honest question: would a Jewish family who adopts a child whose bio parents are Catholic have to give their child a Catholic education?

Jewish is a cultural identity and ethnicity. If you get DNA testing and have Jewish roots they will show up, whereas Catholic roots don't show up. Yes, a child can be Chinese and Jewish, but if a child identifies more as Chinese and doesn't relate as much to Jewish culture, many would argue Chinese should be first and foremost. This goes of course for anything...Latin American, African.

Correct but this child was adopted and probably went through a conversion at the time so the child is both. Its no different than a family raising a child in Christianity or another religion when it wasn't their birth parents religion or culture.

DP. Here’s what I told my former SIL about the difference between her transracially adopted son and her friend’s adopted white son who is the same race. “Your child’s face tells part of his story. He can’t easily step into any shul in the US and be accepted the way Friend’s white son can. Give him options for finding community.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was also wondering the same. Why mention that the kid is adopted, what does this have to do with bat mitzvah

When you go through the adoption process the social worker wants to make sure you will preserve the child's cultural identity as much as possible. The child's culture is supposed to supersede the parent's.

But one can be both Chinese—the ethnicity—and Jewish—the religion.

This is an honest question: would a Jewish family who adopts a child whose bio parents are Catholic have to give their child a Catholic education?

Jewish is a cultural identity and ethnicity. If you get DNA testing and have Jewish roots they will show up, whereas Catholic roots don't show up. Yes, a child can be Chinese and Jewish, but if a child identifies more as Chinese and doesn't relate as much to Jewish culture, many would argue Chinese should be first and foremost. This goes of course for anything...Latin American, African.

Correct but this child was adopted and probably went through a conversion at the time so the child is both. Its no different than a family raising a child in Christianity or another religion when it wasn't their birth parents religion or culture.

DP. Here’s what I told my former SIL about the difference between her transracially adopted son and her friend’s adopted white son who is the same race. “Your child’s face tells part of his story. He can’t easily step into any shul in the US and be accepted the way Friend’s white son can. Give him options for finding community.”

You do realize its not as simple as that and there are plenty of kids who were adopted in the Jewish community. Regardless of adoption, no kid has a choice of religion except in a rare family and kids are part of the religion the parents choose. I'm Jewish and there are a lot of Shul's that would not be welcoming to me as I am not religious. You are making it about race and it should not be. The white child may have had a different religion and not have the look and feel the same way. Both my parents are Jewish and I feel no connection because of how I as raise. This isn't an adoption issue. It sounds like its an undiagnosed learning disability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Got a few ideas from this thread. She is very unhappy and she contacted me again and my daughter. This is escalating quickly.

The good news is my brother and SIL are looking into counseling and are rethinking things and allowing her to explore her heritage more. She is struggling in school too so they understand pushing Bat Mitzvah tutoring is adding to the stress. I am glad they both are open to listening to her more and they do truly care.My brother's whole tone has changed and is he feels bad that things have gotten to this point.

Feel free to continue the discussion if you like. I probably won't be popping in much more.

There sounds a lot more to this and it doesn't sound like this is a culture or heritage issue but an academic issue if she is struggling at school and tutoring. She's overwhelmed academically and that has nothing to do with a Bat Mitzvah. Instead of counseling they should do academic testing and address the real problem. If she's struggling that much, she may need academic tutors or easier classes. It sounds liked they have done a lot to keep up her culture. At that age its normal to question your identity but that doesn't sound like this is the situation and it sounds like its an academic issue.

OP here. Did want to address this too as it may help other families. She has been tested and does have intervention. As they became more serious about the Bat Mitzvah, they stopped with the Chinese cultural activities and she did not like that. It's complicated, but she is a great young lady who has been advocating for herself. I truly believe they are doing the right thing getting family counseling with someone sensitive to adoption issues and cultural diversity. I am not a fan of forcing something on a child that is not crucial to their development.

You really aren't in the adoption community or get it. It sounds like she needs more interventions and your post was clear she's struggling with the learning/academic part of it, which is very hard for some kids. If she wants to do more cultural stuff, thats fine but its pretty typical at that age families stop and kids show less interest as they don't want to be different. Many kids rebel against Chinese or other schools for culture. If its important to her, she needs to ask her parents to continue it but she'll have the same issues at Chinese school as Hebrew school if she has learning disabilities. This has nothing to do with adoption. This has to do with religion and most religion is forced on kids who then become parents and force it on their kids. I don't agree with it but that's what parents do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hope you played around with some facts here or else I think I know who your niece is...do you want that out here?

You seriously think there is only 1 family with multicultural adoption in one location dealing with this issue right now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was also wondering the same. Why mention that the kid is adopted, what does this have to do with bat mitzvah

When you go through the adoption process the social worker wants to make sure you will preserve the child's cultural identity as much as possible. The child's culture is supposed to supersede the parent's.

But one can be both Chinese—the ethnicity—and Jewish—the religion.

This is an honest question: would a Jewish family who adopts a child whose bio parents are Catholic have to give their child a Catholic education?

Jewish is a cultural identity and ethnicity. If you get DNA testing and have Jewish roots they will show up, whereas Catholic roots don't show up. Yes, a child can be Chinese and Jewish, but if a child identifies more as Chinese and doesn't relate as much to Jewish culture, many would argue Chinese should be first and foremost. This goes of course for anything...Latin American, African.

Correct but this child was adopted and probably went through a conversion at the time so the child is both. Its no different than a family raising a child in Christianity or another religion when it wasn't their birth parents religion or culture.

DP. Here’s what I told my former SIL about the difference between her transracially adopted son and her friend’s adopted white son who is the same race. “Your child’s face tells part of his story. He can’t easily step into any shul in the US and be accepted the way Friend’s white son can. Give him options for finding community.”

This, so this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was also wondering the same. Why mention that the kid is adopted, what does this have to do with bat mitzvah

When you go through the adoption process the social worker wants to make sure you will preserve the child's cultural identity as much as possible. The child's culture is supposed to supersede the parent's.

But one can be both Chinese—the ethnicity—and Jewish—the religion.

This is an honest question: would a Jewish family who adopts a child whose bio parents are Catholic have to give their child a Catholic education?

Jewish is a cultural identity and ethnicity. If you get DNA testing and have Jewish roots they will show up, whereas Catholic roots don't show up. Yes, a child can be Chinese and Jewish, but if a child identifies more as Chinese and doesn't relate as much to Jewish culture, many would argue Chinese should be first and foremost. This goes of course for anything...Latin American, African.

? It’s not a zero sum game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But one can be both Chinese—the ethnicity—and Jewish—the religion.

DP. Here’s what I told my former SIL about the difference between her transracially adopted son and her friend’s adopted white son who is the same race. “Your child’s face tells part of his story. He can’t easily step into any shul in the US and be accepted the way Friend’s white son can. Give him options for finding community.”

This, so this.

My father is Chinese. My mom is Polish and Jewish. They met in Ny. I was raised Jewish. My facial features are clearly Chinese. I have always been welcome in any shul I’ve entered. I have never found it difficult to become a part of the multiple Jewish communities that I have lived in due to my facial features.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hope you played around with some facts here or else I think I know who your niece is...do you want that out here?

You seriously think there is only 1 family with multicultural adoption in one location dealing with this issue right now?

There are posters from all over the US, including a sizable group from California. Stop trying to scare people, pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But one can be both Chinese—the ethnicity—and Jewish—the religion.

DP. Here’s what I told my former SIL about the difference between her transracially adopted son and her friend’s adopted white son who is the same race. “Your child’s face tells part of his story. He can’t easily step into any shul in the US and be accepted the way Friend’s white son can. Give him options for finding community.”

This, so this.

My father is Chinese. My mom is Polish and Jewish. They met in Ny. I was raised Jewish. My facial features are clearly Chinese. I have always been welcome in any shul I’ve entered. I have never found it difficult to become a part of the multiple Jewish communities that I have lived in due to my facial features.

That’s entirely different and you know it. Your mother is Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was also wondering the same. Why mention that the kid is adopted, what does this have to do with bat mitzvah

When you go through the adoption process the social worker wants to make sure you will preserve the child's cultural identity as much as possible. The child's culture is supposed to supersede the parent's.

I'm a social worker who's main responsibility is to solidify adoptions, and what you just wrote here is just about the most absurd thing I've ever read. You clearly made this up.

Your statement is also the exact OPPOSITE of what we instruct parents.

How on earth would a child EVER feel integrated, comfortable or fully acclimated into an adoptive family, if the family is constantly pointing out their differences and blatantly treating them as not only a foreigner, but as differently from the adoptive family as possible?

What you're essentially saying is that any other children in the household would be raised American, but the adopted child would be raised as Chinese.

Regardless if the Chinese child is the only Chinese person the family knows, dog gone it that child can't be raised as one of us - we HAVE to raise her Chinese! Rules are rules!

Let me take a crack at how this conversation would go...

"Hey honey, it says here in this email from our social worker, that we shouldn't treat little Emily the same as the rest of the kids - we by law have to treat her differently. Well, l guess we'll have to treat every single one of our bio kids the same way as us, but then we'll treat just her differently.
Ok, sound like a plan??
Oh don't worry, she definitely won't feel ostracized, left out or rejected, because she'll have her culture of origin to keep her company, right??
Doesn't this sound like a SUPER inclusive plan to you??"

Ok, PP... you need to provide links for this BS statement of yours, or we'll know you just made it up.

Show us in writing where it states that the child's culture of origin is supposed to *supersede* the parents.

We'll wait...

[Anonymous]

My husband and I are white and Jewish. Our daughter was adopted from China as a baby. We also have a younger biological daughter. Both were raised Jewish. Both had a Bat Mitzvah. We are a Jewish family, so both of our daughters are being raised in our faith.

Being Chinese and Jewish are not mutually exclusive. Although my daughter born in China has not been particularly interested in Chinese activities such as Chinese language school, she has always been offered them. It's easy to incorporate both cultures.

We have belonged to 3 synagogues and none of them have blinked an eye about her being Asian. And she feels very comfortable in them (we have talked about it.) This isn't the 1970s. Our shul has all different types of families (white/black couples, lesbian couples, families with children who are black, gay families, Asian/White families, families with children from Asia, etc.)

Of course, not every child is the same, adopted or not. And maybe OP's niece feels very connected to her heritage or she just doesn't feel connected to Judaism or religion in general (any child might feel that way, not just those who are adopted). If that's the case then I would follow her lead. I cannot imagine that it came up suddenly - there would likely have been clues all along if the child goes to Sunday/Hebrew School and religious services.

My deal with my kids is that this is how we are raising you. You don't have to believe everything that is taught. But Judaism really encourages you to think and debate, which I like. If you decide at a later date that you don't believe something or just want to pick and choose what you do like from the faith, then so be it.

I hope she finds peace and comfort.

[Anonymous]

5:37 here

I just want to add that almost ALL Jewish children complain about going to Sunday School and Hebrew School. Just like I'm sure most Christian kids complain about have to go to church on Sunday. If that is what this child doesn't want to do, then it likely has nothing to do with being adopted from Asia but more about not wanting to do do extra work or not wanting to wake up early on Sunday mornings.

It's not clear from the OP if this is what the child is unhappy about or if the child has already gone all through Hebrew school and doesn't want to take the next year to prepare for her Bat Mitzvah. If it's the latter, then this child is likely 12 years old and should be able to articulate why it is she doesn't want a Bat Mitzvah and her parents should be clued in if it's the work involved in preparation or something deeper about not feeling connected.

[Anonymous]

I know two adults who were asian infants adopted by jewish families, and raised jewish. Both hated the process to prepare for their bat mitvah's, but neither regret being "forced" to become members of the religious community they were raised in. It provides traditions to pass on to their own children. Strengthens bonds with their extended families.

I'd tread carefully OP and MYOB. Your niece may have a very different perspective on this as an adult, and regret not having a bar mitvah.