Young adult with special needs flashed his penis to my 4 YO daughter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He doesn't have the mental capacity to understand. You guys are going to get him institutionalized when he sounds harmless.

I mean, HE doesn't understand, but he has the ability to scar my children. And that's what makes this so problematic.

Seeing a penis is not going to scar your children. You told him not to do that - has he done it again?

The parents sound like idiots. They should have assured you that they hired a behavioral specialist for this young man.
If they aren't his guardians and he is ruled mentally incompetent then he could be sent to live in a group home, yes.
What does he do all day? Does he want to play with children and talk to people? That is better than being in a group home - they basically hire awful people off the street to care for the inhabitants and they often pay no attention to them.

Is he not in a job training program during the day? No sports ? Special Olympics?

Odds are this young person meant no harm - he probably had the mind of a 4 year old. He just needs some behavioral management and better parents.
Lawyers? Awful. If they have the money for a lawyer why not the money for a companion for him?

You should not teach your daughter to hate. Yes that was inappropriate and she should come tell you and she shouldn't be unattended with a man that age (for her protection and his) but that shouldn't mean no contact. Both families over reacted.

We have a cold in special activities and yes you hear inappropriate stuff sometimes more than regular teens but only because they lack a natural filter for what is appropriate to say and do sometimes- which is where behavior management comes in. Which 99% of people do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And OP why did you post this on the "kids with special needs" forum?

I think OP posted this here to gain cover for escalating action against the man and his family. She wants to weaponize her discomfort. OP hasn't said why the young man is walking past her house - is he going somewhere, to the bus stop or walking a dog? What indication does OP have that the young man is passing their home deliberately exactly?

I also think OP wants people on this forum to immediately agree with her that the family is fully responsible for making sure that neither she nor her child encounter their son again even on a public street.

[Anonymous]

Your child is only 4, so you're not allowing her to roam the neighborhood alone, right?

[Anonymous]

OP here, thanks for the replies. I actually posted in the special needs forum in case there was some organization or outreach group I was unaware of that might help, or some suggestion I just hadn't thought of.

Also, I actually posted elsewhere in a general parenting group when it first happened, and was lambasted for having not immediately called the police and having him arrested. Every time I said, "but he's mentally handicapped!" I was told I was crazy for prioritizing a stranger's needs over those of my own children. I don't need to hear that, because I don't want to have him arrested.

I think I might have just needed to hear that there's nothing more that I can do, if that's the case, which it sounds like it is.

But, I do think, and it sounds like there are more than a handful of others who agree, that his parents are being a little negligent here. We were totally friendly before they stopped talking to us and hired a lawyer. And told us they thought it never happened?? It sounds like these sorts of things happen all the time with mentally handicapped adults, so what I find deeply troubling is that the parents would *deny* it ever happened at all. It makes me wonder if something else has ever happened in the past that they have also denied. It erodes all sense of trust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. He has not done it again, although he did come into our driveway yelling angrily at me, and I ran into my house. This was several months ago. Then our neighbor said he also came onto their property and started harassing their nanny. I assume he's upset with us about the situation. We have otherwise avoided him like the plague, so there would be no other opportunity for it to happen.

He has tourettes as well, by the way, so I can hear when he's out for a walk or when he's approaching our house, making it at least easier to run inside if he's approaching. But it also means it's harder for me to forget about it, because I hear him several times a day, every day.

I guess I don't know what I want, except perhaps for this young man to be supervised and occupied during the day, and for his parents to have taken our concerns seriously (and to have believed us. And to have returned our calls, so that we could have remained in communication about the issue).

Also, I feel like I have whiplash when I try talking about this issue because if I bring it up with people who are not sensitive to those with special needs, they are horrified that I wouldn't have him arrested, and for those who are more sensitive, I hear I should let it go "unless it happens again" which seems like a weird standard because I'm not letting my kids near him again. I don't care about being flashed but I don't want my 4 YO daughter (or 1 YO daughter) to be flashed by an adult man. His special needs wouldn't make it any less traumatic for my daughters.

OP you are completely overreacting! Sounds to me like the parents DID take care of it. 1. he hasn't flashed you or your kids again. 2. he's clearly mad at you, which to me sounds like his parents gave him the "what for" and punished him appropriately.

You can't control the outside world. What if a homeless man walked down your street and flashed your kids....one time? Or what about ALL the homeless people we see around the city talking to themselves, shouting, yelling at nothing. How do you handle that with your kids? You can't call the police EVERY SINGLE TIME a person walks down your public sidewalk. It's just not realistic and makes you look like the crazy one.

And I'm not saying it's not traumatic or bad for your kid to have experienced that. Of course it is and sounds like - at first - you handled it appropriately. But then for a whole year and longer to continue to demand that this guy not walk down the street? That's crazy.

It sounds like he hasn't done anything illegal in a year. Yelling at you (again - think of all the homeless folks yelling around here every day) isn't a crime. And it sounds like you are traumatizing your kids more than this guy is.

You need to teach your kids about mental illness but seriously move on from last year's incident. Just because he flashed you over a year ago (and hasn't done it since) doesn't mean you're at a high risk of it happening again. But now you're better prepared if by a slim chance it happens again. You can be prepared to say "STOP THAT" or "I"M TELLING YOUR MOTHER" or even have your phone on the ready and take his picture and then you can show his parents.

But until then, you are totally overreacting.

[Anonymous]

You sound like a really nice person, OP. Ignore the haters.

However, I think you've been MORE THAN reasonable and understanding. It's time to look after your family. And the idea that YOU should move is outrageous.

I have a 4 year old too. And I would tell the parents that the next time I see their son outside my house, I will be filing a police report. And then I'd do it.

At 4 years old, your DD is already at the age where this type of thing will be setting expectations in her mind about what is or is not appropriate behavior. The last thing you'd want is for her to be the victim of ongoing molestation later simply because she became desensitized to it at this age. (Oh it's nothing I haven't already seen before, oh my parents won't think there's anything wrong with it since they knew about this guy who used to walk around my street and do inappropriate things too, etc)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't want my kids flashed, either, but you the impact of involving the police is WAY disproportionate to the "trauma" of seeing a penis.

Lots of kids in lots of countries see penises all the time. It is only traumatic if you make it traumatic.

Um, flashing a child your penis is a crime. A CRIME. This is totally crazy. "Only traumatic if you make it traumatic." No no no no no. Is that what you tell all your victims?

NP here. I'm a pretty prudish person, and I have to say no, the sight of a penis should not be traumatizing to a child. Half our kids have them, and some people who are far more comfortable with nudity than I expose their kids to the sight of a penis on a regular basis.

An adult with special needs is more likely to show off a penis much like a small child would, as a novelty. An adult without special needs who flashes theirs is doing it for far more nefarious reasons, and is likely to escalate, hence it is a crime. If my neighbor's 5yo flashed a penis, I'd talk to the parents. I would treat this case the same way.

Agreed. Adult normal men show off their junk to children so they can get off on the thought. This is like a 4 year old showing your 4 year old his penis.

No. Stop infantilizing people with special needs. Most adults with intellectual disabilities do have sexual feelings because they have gone through puberty. It is not like a four year old at all. Adults with Downs and other intellectual disabilities have fought in court for a right to sexual expression in their group homes, to receive info on sexual health, to date online, and even to attend LGBTQ support groups when that fits their needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thanks for the replies. I actually posted in the special needs forum in case there was some organization or outreach group I was unaware of that might help, or some suggestion I just hadn't thought of.

Also, I actually posted elsewhere in a general parenting group when it first happened, and was lambasted for having not immediately called the police and having him arrested. Every time I said, "but he's mentally handicapped!" I was told I was crazy for prioritizing a stranger's needs over those of my own children. I don't need to hear that, because I don't want to have him arrested.

I think I might have just needed to hear that there's nothing more that I can do, if that's the case, which it sounds like it is.

But, I do think, and it sounds like there are more than a handful of others who agree, that his parents are being a little negligent here. We were totally friendly before they stopped talking to us and hired a lawyer. And told us they thought it never happened?? It sounds like these sorts of things happen all the time with mentally handicapped adults, so what I find deeply troubling is that the parents would *deny* it ever happened at all. It makes me wonder if something else has ever happened in the past that they have also denied. It erodes all sense of trust.

OP, I'm the pp and I don't think the parents are being negligent. You said they didn't deny it and were very apologetic and sincere when you first brought it to their attention. So that indicates that they were just as mortified as you and likely haven't heard of him doing that before. Otherwise they would have known how to appropriately respond the first time you called.

But don't forget he did this one time over a year ago. And it sounds like you called them every time he was walking outside. That's a bit much and understandably they changed their tune with you.

Please take my earlier post to heart and treat him as you would any other homeless man walking down the street. If he does anything illegal, call the police and try to document it, but if he's just taking a walk, yelling or talking or whatever, he has every right to be on a public sidewalk as you do.

And for what it's worth, I don't have any special needs kids (saw this on "recent threads") and didn't even realize you posted under special needs. It's just that we deal with similar situations often (not flashing, but certainly whipping it out to pee on the sidewalk) and my kids have learned that they are mentally ill and have no where to go. they learned to not look when they're doing that and how to protect themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a really nice person, OP. Ignore the haters.

However, I think you've been MORE THAN reasonable and understanding. It's time to look after your family. And the idea that YOU should move is outrageous.

I have a 4 year old too. And I would tell the parents that the next time I see their son outside my house, I will be filing a police report. And then I'd do it.

At 4 years old, your DD is already at the age where this type of thing will be setting expectations in her mind about what is or is not appropriate behavior. The last thing you'd want is for her to be the victim of ongoing molestation later simply because she became desensitized to it at this age. (Oh it's nothing I haven't already seen before, oh my parents won't think there's anything wrong with it since they knew about this guy who used to walk around my street and do inappropriate things too, etc)

you're missing the point. First - what is she calling the police about? A man is walking down the sidewalk?

And you're not teaching your kids that this is normal - you're actually teaching them that this behavior is absolutely NOT appropriate and that she needs to get away from him and yell at him to stop if he's flashing her or yelling at her. It's so much more empowering to a child to teach them that they have a voice and can yell NO before something happens to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a really nice person, OP. Ignore the haters.

However, I think you've been MORE THAN reasonable and understanding. It's time to look after your family. And the idea that YOU should move is outrageous.

I have a 4 year old too. And I would tell the parents that the next time I see their son outside my house, I will be filing a police report. And then I'd do it.

At 4 years old, your DD is already at the age where this type of thing will be setting expectations in her mind about what is or is not appropriate behavior. The last thing you'd want is for her to be the victim of ongoing molestation later simply because she became desensitized to it at this age. (Oh it's nothing I haven't already seen before, oh my parents won't think there's anything wrong with it since they knew about this guy who used to walk around my street and do inappropriate things too, etc)

you're missing the point. First - what is she calling the police about? A man is walking down the sidewalk?

She's calling to report the original crime.

Anonymous wrote:
And you're not teaching your kids that this is normal - you're actually teaching them that this behavior is absolutely NOT appropriate and that she needs to get away from him and yell at him to stop if he's flashing her or yelling at her. It's so much more empowering to a child to teach them that they have a voice and can yell NO before something happens to them.

No, the empowering thing is realizing that you don't need to just put up with people committing crimes and not say anything about it. Why should a little girl (and her parents) need to be on high alert of being harassed and abused while playing on her own property? That's ridiculous. And yelling at someone after they've committed a crime doesn't make it okay.

The guy clearly needs to be supervised while he's in public. It's as simple as that. And the guy's parents wouldn't have obtained a lawyer unless they understood how serious the situation is. They're trying to bully her into being quiet.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I'll add more details: the thing that made me feel like he should be supervised, rather than just being slapped on the wrist, was that both hte social worker I consulted and my pediatrician said this was totally normal behavior (flashing) BUT that it indicated that he should absolutely be supervised. So, professionals were telling me this. It wasn't something I came up with on my own. The social worker said that he likely has a case worker, and that the case worker should be informed of the incident.

Early on the parents said first that they did tell his case worker, then later that they confessed they did not, and that they did not want the case worker informed because they did not think it happened / it would limit his potential future opportunities (employment? independence? I don't know). The police said the only way to get the case worker to know about it is to convince the parents to tell the case worker, or get him arrested.

I'm not sure if I have all those details right about how all this stuff is handled, but that's what I've been told.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'll add more details: the thing that made me feel like he should be supervised, rather than just being slapped on the wrist, was that both hte social worker I consulted and my pediatrician said this was totally normal behavior (flashing) BUT that it indicated that he should absolutely be supervised. So, professionals were telling me this. It wasn't something I came up with on my own. The social worker said that he likely has a case worker, and that the case worker should be informed of the incident.

Early on the parents said first that they did tell his case worker, then later that they confessed they did not, and that they did not want the case worker informed because they did not think it happened / it would limit his potential future opportunities (employment? independence? I don't know). The police said the only way to get the case worker to know about it is to convince the parents to tell the case worker, or get him arrested.

I'm not sure if I have all those details right about how all this stuff is handled, but that's what I've been told.

Are you even thinking clearly? You sound nuts. You DID NOT SUPERVISE YOUR 4 year old. YOUR 4 YEAR OLD needs supervision so they don't encounter these things. You should be reported for neglect for your 4 year old being outside alone.

Enough already. Don't have a SN child... for that child's sake, just don't. This man probably cannot function well enough to understand what he did was wrong and him having a job, is probably a non-issue. Yes, it was a crappy thing to happen, but you don't get it so just stop already.

Attacking someone SN on a SN board is not going to win you points on how wonderful you are when you failed to supervise your 4 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thanks for the replies. I actually posted in the special needs forum in case there was some organization or outreach group I was unaware of that might help, or some suggestion I just hadn't thought of.

Also, I actually posted elsewhere in a general parenting group when it first happened, and was lambasted for having not immediately called the police and having him arrested. Every time I said, "but he's mentally handicapped!" I was told I was crazy for prioritizing a stranger's needs over those of my own children. I don't need to hear that, because I don't want to have him arrested.

I think I might have just needed to hear that there's nothing more that I can do, if that's the case, which it sounds like it is.

But, I do think, and it sounds like there are more than a handful of others who agree, that his parents are being a little negligent here. We were totally friendly before they stopped talking to us and hired a lawyer. And told us they thought it never happened?? It sounds like these sorts of things happen all the time with mentally handicapped adults, so what I find deeply troubling is that the parents would *deny* it ever happened at all. It makes me wonder if something else has ever happened in the past that they have also denied. It erodes all sense of trust.

Lawyers are assholes - it's what they do. I think he was just explaining his defense in case there is trouble. The lawyer said that, right? Not the parents?

You don't know what the parents are doing for this kid - it's probably a lot more than you think.

If the parents don't supervise or communicate effectively and honestly you will probably have to find another special needs friend.
Poor guy though - he seems social and sweet. Maybe just in public places around other people?

I do wonder if he has a guardian but no way of knowing unless cops or social services comes by.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thanks for the replies. I actually posted in the special needs forum in case there was some organization or outreach group I was unaware of that might help, or some suggestion I just hadn't thought of.

Also, I actually posted elsewhere in a general parenting group when it first happened, and was lambasted for having not immediately called the police and having him arrested. Every time I said, "but he's mentally handicapped!" I was told I was crazy for prioritizing a stranger's needs over those of my own children. I don't need to hear that, because I don't want to have him arrested.

I think I might have just needed to hear that there's nothing more that I can do, if that's the case, which it sounds like it is.

But, I do think, and it sounds like there are more than a handful of others who agree, that his parents are being a little negligent here. We were totally friendly before they stopped talking to us and hired a lawyer. And told us they thought it never happened?? It sounds like these sorts of things happen all the time with mentally handicapped adults, so what I find deeply troubling is that the parents would *deny* it ever happened at all. It makes me wonder if something else has ever happened in the past that they have also denied. It erodes all sense of trust.

You want us to post a group that is going to go after the guy and his family? What exactly are you looking for? Just ask them to pay you off or what ever you want and leave those people alone. Supervise your child!! You should be charged with neglect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'll add more details: the thing that made me feel like he should be supervised, rather than just being slapped on the wrist, was that both hte social worker I consulted and my pediatrician said this was totally normal behavior (flashing) BUT that it indicated that he should absolutely be supervised. So, professionals were telling me this. It wasn't something I came up with on my own. The social worker said that he likely has a case worker, and that the case worker should be informed of the incident.

Early on the parents said first that they did tell his case worker, then later that they confessed they did not, and that they did not want the case worker informed because they did not think it happened / it would limit his potential future opportunities (employment? independence? I don't know). The police said the only way to get the case worker to know about it is to convince the parents to tell the case worker, or get him arrested.

I'm not sure if I have all those details right about how all this stuff is handled, but that's what I've been told.

Are you even thinking clearly? You sound nuts. You DID NOT SUPERVISE YOUR 4 year old. YOUR 4 YEAR OLD needs supervision so they don't encounter these things. You should be reported for neglect for your 4 year old being outside alone.

Enough already. Don't have a SN child... for that child's sake, just don't. This man probably cannot function well enough to understand what he did was wrong and him having a job, is probably a non-issue. Yes, it was a crappy thing to happen, but you don't get it so just stop already.

Attacking someone SN on a SN board is not going to win you points on how wonderful you are when you failed to supervise your 4 year old.

Well, and this is why I accompany my SN child at someone else's house. Bad parents all around.