"the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with the quote. I agree with the idea that no one is 100% guilty and no one is 100% innocent, but in an affair scenario the cheating spouse has a severely compromised moral compass. The other spouse may be depressed, ill, poor at communicating, but two wrongs don't make a right. You should have learned that in elementary school.

If your marriage is bad, END IT. Don't cheat.

I love these platitudes! There is no "I" in team!

Back to the real world, when there are children, and school districts, and families with health issues, and health insurance issues, and economic considerations, 401ks, the idea of "just end it!" is totally meaningless.

It's far, far less messy to just find a way to get discreet needs met outside the marriage, if sex is the only issue. The idea you need to blow up your kids world as the go to response is backwards. Keep your family intact, go do what you need to do if your spouse becomes unwilling to do it.

Since you think Esther is so wise do you also know that she says... "it isn’t our partner that we are turning away from, but the person that we have ourselves become"

Most people have affairs because they realize they sort of suck as a husband/wife/father/cook/etc that goes along with being a "family". So they go hide from it and try to become somebody else for a short period of time. People have affairs because they know they are a failure in their own lives, they don't like themselves.

Is she so wise now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with the quote. I agree with the idea that no one is 100% guilty and no one is 100% innocent, but in an affair scenario the cheating spouse has a severely compromised moral compass. The other spouse may be depressed, ill, poor at communicating, but two wrongs don't make a right. You should have learned that in elementary school.

If your marriage is bad, END IT. Don't cheat.

I love these platitudes! There is no "I" in team!

Back to the real world, when there are children, and school districts, and families with health issues, and health insurance issues, and economic considerations, 401ks, the idea of "just end it!" is totally meaningless.

It's far, far less messy to just find a way to get discreet needs met outside the marriage, if sex is the only issue. The idea you need to blow up your kids world as the go to response is backwards. Keep your family intact, go do what you need to do if your spouse becomes unwilling to do it.

Since you think Esther is so wise do you also know that she says... "it isn’t our partner that we are turning away from, but the person that we have ourselves become"

Most people have affairs because they realize they sort of suck as a husband/wife/father/cook/etc that goes along with being a "family". So they go hide from it and try to become somebody else for a short period of time. People have affairs because they know they are a failure in their own lives, they don't like themselves.

Is she so wise now?

NP here. I'm extensively familiar with her work, and that is a mischaracterization of her what she is saying. That subgroup of cheaters she's referring don't necessarily "suck" at anything related to their domestic duties. In other words, excellent fathers who are happy at home and coach t-ball CAN and do cheat on their wives. What she's saying is that there's something within that person who cheats that finds their life ungratifying. They use the affair to explore another side of themselves to try to discover who they might have been able to be, if their lives unfolded differently. This is not to say that men who are lazy around the house don't cheat. It's just not what she means by that quote.


You sound like some of the cheated on wives who want to be all like, "Well, my husband cheated because he hated that he sucked at everything." Keep telling yourself that. She also says that some people cheat and become disengaged at home because their partners are not checked in emotionally.

[Anonymous]

My marriage had issues before he had an affair. I was distant and anxious and he was financially irresponsible and put the burden of running the household all on me (e.g, bills, picking daycare and schools, coordinating with his family for get together she wanted). I own 50% of those problems. But so does he. Instead of coming and talking to me (he never once told me that he was unhappy), he was quiet and had his emotional needs met through a coworker who he had an affair with for a year. His affair was not my fault. He chose to react in that manner. He refused counseling before and during the affair, though I asked because he seemed to be detaching. We are in counseling now and have small children, and I am working on my pre-affair 50%. But we were both the victims of a not great marriage (though victim seems an odd word to use for either of us), but I am the one who has been betrayed and my trust destroyed. Honestly, he seems to have gotten a self esteem boost out of this situation while my self-esteem is in the garbage. I want this to work and am trying very hard, but this talk of saints/victims doesn't address all of the nuances. Often, both people in a bad marriage are having a bad marriage. Don't go and make it worse by cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with the quote. I agree with the idea that no one is 100% guilty and no one is 100% innocent, but in an affair scenario the cheating spouse has a severely compromised moral compass. The other spouse may be depressed, ill, poor at communicating, but two wrongs don't make a right. You should have learned that in elementary school.

If your marriage is bad, END IT. Don't cheat.

I love these platitudes! There is no "I" in team!

Back to the real world, when there are children, and school districts, and families with health issues, and health insurance issues, and economic considerations, 401ks, the idea of "just end it!" is totally meaningless.

It's far, far less messy to just find a way to get discreet needs met outside the marriage, if sex is the only issue. The idea you need to blow up your kids world as the go to response is backwards. Keep your family intact, go do what you need to do if your spouse becomes unwilling to do it.

Since you think Esther is so wise do you also know that she says... "it isn’t our partner that we are turning away from, but the person that we have ourselves become"

Most people have affairs because they realize they sort of suck as a husband/wife/father/cook/etc that goes along with being a "family". So they go hide from it and try to become somebody else for a short period of time. People have affairs because they know they are a failure in their own lives, they don't like themselves.

Is she so wise now?

NP here. I'm extensively familiar with her work, and that is a mischaracterization of her what she is saying. That subgroup of cheaters she's referring don't necessarily "suck" at anything related to their domestic duties. In other words, excellent fathers who are happy at home and coach t-ball CAN and do cheat on their wives. What she's saying is that there's something within that person who cheats that finds their life ungratifying. They use the affair to explore another side of themselves to try to discover who they might have been able to be, if their lives unfolded differently. This is not to say that men who are lazy around the house don't cheat. It's just not what she means by that quote.


You sound like some of the cheated on wives who want to be all like, "Well, my husband cheated because he hated that he sucked at everything." Keep telling yourself that. She also says that some people cheat and become disengaged at home because their partners are not checked in emotionally.

NP here and if I were to cheat with the coworker who intrigues the hell out of me, this would be my explanation (in addition to flawed character, exaggerated sense of entitlement, immaturity, cake eater, yadda yadda). She's attractive to me in ways DW could never be - they're just two completely different women and I could see myself with one just as much as the other. That's not to say I'll cheat, but if I did, it wouldn't be because something was broken at home, or that DW wronged me in some way. She couldn't be more caring or devoted. DW has attractive characteristics A, B, and C. Coworker has attractive characteristics X, Y, and Z. I'm an A, B, C, X, Y, Z type of guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, that wasn't my experience.

Some people are good at rewriting history and making themselves out to be victims. My exwife played everyone the same sad song about me never being home, turning her down for sex when I was home, and being emotionally unavailable. What she left out was that my mother had a heart attack during surgery and slipped into a coma. I practically lived at the hospital for a month. After enduring so much neglect during that month, she had no choice but to move on.

I understand that's your mother, but living there for a month was a little much. You still had other responsibilities at your home, and can't dump a spouse during difficult times. Going by your post it sounds like this was the straw among many..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with the quote. I agree with the idea that no one is 100% guilty and no one is 100% innocent, but in an affair scenario the cheating spouse has a severely compromised moral compass. The other spouse may be depressed, ill, poor at communicating, but two wrongs don't make a right. You should have learned that in elementary school.

If your marriage is bad, END IT. Don't cheat.

I love these platitudes! There is no "I" in team!

Back to the real world, when there are children, and school districts, and families with health issues, and health insurance issues, and economic considerations, 401ks, the idea of "just end it!" is totally meaningless.

It's far, far less messy to just find a way to get discreet needs met outside the marriage, if sex is the only issue. The idea you need to blow up your kids world as the go to response is backwards. Keep your family intact, go do what you need to do if your spouse becomes unwilling to do it.

Since you think Esther is so wise do you also know that she says... "it isn’t our partner that we are turning away from, but the person that we have ourselves become"

Most people have affairs because they realize they sort of suck as a husband/wife/father/cook/etc that goes along with being a "family". So they go hide from it and try to become somebody else for a short period of time. People have affairs because they know they are a failure in their own lives, they don't like themselves.

Is she so wise now?

NP here. I'm extensively familiar with her work, and that is a mischaracterization of her what she is saying. That subgroup of cheaters she's referring don't necessarily "suck" at anything related to their domestic duties. In other words, excellent fathers who are happy at home and coach t-ball CAN and do cheat on their wives. What she's saying is that there's something within that person who cheats that finds their life ungratifying. They use the affair to explore another side of themselves to try to discover who they might have been able to be, if their lives unfolded differently. This is not to say that men who are lazy around the house don't cheat. It's just not what she means by that quote.


You sound like some of the cheated on wives who want to be all like, "Well, my husband cheated because he hated that he sucked at everything." Keep telling yourself that. She also says that some people cheat and become disengaged at home because their partners are not checked in emotionally.

NP here and if I were to cheat with the coworker who intrigues the hell out of me, this would be my explanation (in addition to flawed character, exaggerated sense of entitlement, immaturity, cake eater, yadda yadda). She's attractive to me in ways DW could never be - they're just two completely different women and I could see myself with one just as much as the other. That's not to say I'll cheat, but if I did, it wouldn't be because something was broken at home, or that DW wronged me in some way. She couldn't be more caring or devoted. DW has attractive characteristics A, B, and C. Coworker has attractive characteristics X, Y, and Z. I'm an A, B, C, X, Y, Z type of guy.

And in short that fantasy is always going to be better than reality. I feel sad for your DW. Why are you even thinking of your co-worker in that way - kind of creepy imo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with the quote. I agree with the idea that no one is 100% guilty and no one is 100% innocent, but in an affair scenario the cheating spouse has a severely compromised moral compass. The other spouse may be depressed, ill, poor at communicating, but two wrongs don't make a right. You should have learned that in elementary school.

If your marriage is bad, END IT. Don't cheat.

I love these platitudes! There is no "I" in team!

Back to the real world, when there are children, and school districts, and families with health issues, and health insurance issues, and economic considerations, 401ks, the idea of "just end it!" is totally meaningless.

It's far, far less messy to just find a way to get discreet needs met outside the marriage, if sex is the only issue. The idea you need to blow up your kids world as the go to response is backwards. Keep your family intact, go do what you need to do if your spouse becomes unwilling to do it.

Since you think Esther is so wise do you also know that she says... "it isn’t our partner that we are turning away from, but the person that we have ourselves become"

Most people have affairs because they realize they sort of suck as a husband/wife/father/cook/etc that goes along with being a "family". So they go hide from it and try to become somebody else for a short period of time. People have affairs because they know they are a failure in their own lives, they don't like themselves.

Is she so wise now?

NP here. I'm extensively familiar with her work, and that is a mischaracterization of her what she is saying. That subgroup of cheaters she's referring don't necessarily "suck" at anything related to their domestic duties. In other words, excellent fathers who are happy at home and coach t-ball CAN and do cheat on their wives. What she's saying is that there's something within that person who cheats that finds their life ungratifying. They use the affair to explore another side of themselves to try to discover who they might have been able to be, if their lives unfolded differently. This is not to say that men who are lazy around the house don't cheat. It's just not what she means by that quote.


You sound like some of the cheated on wives who want to be all like, "Well, my husband cheated because he hated that he sucked at everything." Keep telling yourself that. She also says that some people cheat and become disengaged at home because their partners are not checked in emotionally.

NP here and if I were to cheat with the coworker who intrigues the hell out of me, this would be my explanation (in addition to flawed character, exaggerated sense of entitlement, immaturity, cake eater, yadda yadda). She's attractive to me in ways DW could never be - they're just two completely different women and I could see myself with one just as much as the other. That's not to say I'll cheat, but if I did, it wouldn't be because something was broken at home, or that DW wronged me in some way. She couldn't be more caring or devoted. DW has attractive characteristics A, B, and C. Coworker has attractive characteristics X, Y, and Z. I'm an A, B, C, X, Y, Z type of guy.

And in short that fantasy is always going to be better than reality. I feel sad for your DW. Why are you even thinking of your co-worker in that way - kind of creepy imo.

He married when his SMV meant he had to choose between ABC and XYZ. Now he's made partner and his SMV would let him get ABC PLUS XYZ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with the quote. I agree with the idea that no one is 100% guilty and no one is 100% innocent, but in an affair scenario the cheating spouse has a severely compromised moral compass. The other spouse may be depressed, ill, poor at communicating, but two wrongs don't make a right. You should have learned that in elementary school.

If your marriage is bad, END IT. Don't cheat.

I love these platitudes! There is no "I" in team!

Back to the real world, when there are children, and school districts, and families with health issues, and health insurance issues, and economic considerations, 401ks, the idea of "just end it!" is totally meaningless.

It's far, far less messy to just find a way to get discreet needs met outside the marriage, if sex is the only issue. The idea you need to blow up your kids world as the go to response is backwards. Keep your family intact, go do what you need to do if your spouse becomes unwilling to do it.

Since you think Esther is so wise do you also know that she says... "it isn’t our partner that we are turning away from, but the person that we have ourselves become"

Most people have affairs because they realize they sort of suck as a husband/wife/father/cook/etc that goes along with being a "family". So they go hide from it and try to become somebody else for a short period of time. People have affairs because they know they are a failure in their own lives, they don't like themselves.

Is she so wise now?

NP here. I'm extensively familiar with her work, and that is a mischaracterization of her what she is saying. That subgroup of cheaters she's referring don't necessarily "suck" at anything related to their domestic duties. In other words, excellent fathers who are happy at home and coach t-ball CAN and do cheat on their wives. What she's saying is that there's something within that person who cheats that finds their life ungratifying. They use the affair to explore another side of themselves to try to discover who they might have been able to be, if their lives unfolded differently. This is not to say that men who are lazy around the house don't cheat. It's just not what she means by that quote.


You sound like some of the cheated on wives who want to be all like, "Well, my husband cheated because he hated that he sucked at everything." Keep telling yourself that. She also says that some people cheat and become disengaged at home because their partners are not checked in emotionally.

NP here and if I were to cheat with the coworker who intrigues the hell out of me, this would be my explanation (in addition to flawed character, exaggerated sense of entitlement, immaturity, cake eater, yadda yadda). She's attractive to me in ways DW could never be - they're just two completely different women and I could see myself with one just as much as the other. That's not to say I'll cheat, but if I did, it wouldn't be because something was broken at home, or that DW wronged me in some way. She couldn't be more caring or devoted. DW has attractive characteristics A, B, and C. Coworker has attractive characteristics X, Y, and Z. I'm an A, B, C, X, Y, Z type of guy.

And in short that fantasy is always going to be better than reality. I feel sad for your DW. Why are you even thinking of your co-worker in that way - kind of creepy imo.

He married when his SMV meant he had to choose between ABC and XYZ. Now he's made partner and his SMV would let him get ABC PLUS XYZ.

That's what HE thinks in his little brain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, that wasn't my experience.

Some people are good at rewriting history and making themselves out to be victims. My exwife played everyone the same sad song about me never being home, turning her down for sex when I was home, and being emotionally unavailable. What she left out was that my mother had a heart attack during surgery and slipped into a coma. I practically lived at the hospital for a month. After enduring so much neglect during that month, she had no choice but to move on.

I understand that's your mother, but living there for a month was a little much. You still had other responsibilities at your home, and can't dump a spouse during difficult times. Going by your post it sounds like this was the straw among many..

It was a figure of speech. Even if I did live there for a month, it would've been worth it given that I was able to be with her when she died. No, I was there due to medical malpractice and ongoing abuse from someone in the nursing staff. My exwife eventually came clean and said that she realized she wasn't cut out for "the family thing." She felt so strongly about it that she suggested that she waive parental rights to make a smooth transition with the other guy who didn't have or want kids. I don't know what straws I could've added that would cause a mother to do that.

[Anonymous]

My affair was my fault.

My affair is not want ended our marriage.

What ended our marriage was both of our faults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My affair was my fault.

My affair is not want ended our marriage.

What ended our marriage was both of our faults.

What ended your marriage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with the quote. I agree with the idea that no one is 100% guilty and no one is 100% innocent, but in an affair scenario the cheating spouse has a severely compromised moral compass. The other spouse may be depressed, ill, poor at communicating, but two wrongs don't make a right. You should have learned that in elementary school.

If your marriage is bad, END IT. Don't cheat.

I love these platitudes! There is no "I" in team!

Back to the real world, when there are children, and school districts, and families with health issues, and health insurance issues, and economic considerations, 401ks, the idea of "just end it!" is totally meaningless.

It's far, far less messy to just find a way to get discreet needs met outside the marriage, if sex is the only issue. The idea you need to blow up your kids world as the go to response is backwards. Keep your family intact, go do what you need to do if your spouse becomes unwilling to do it.

To me the idea that you need to get sexual needs met so badly that you go outside the marriage is absurd. That one would put children, their schooling, your family, your finances, your home, etc. etc. all at risk for some tail is just.... monstrous.

Sex is a vital part of a monogamous relationship

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with the quote. I agree with the idea that no one is 100% guilty and no one is 100% innocent, but in an affair scenario the cheating spouse has a severely compromised moral compass. The other spouse may be depressed, ill, poor at communicating, but two wrongs don't make a right. You should have learned that in elementary school.

If your marriage is bad, END IT. Don't cheat.

I love these platitudes! There is no "I" in team!

Back to the real world, when there are children, and school districts, and families with health issues, and health insurance issues, and economic considerations, 401ks, the idea of "just end it!" is totally meaningless.

It's far, far less messy to just find a way to get discreet needs met outside the marriage, if sex is the only issue. The idea you need to blow up your kids world as the go to response is backwards. Keep your family intact, go do what you need to do if your spouse becomes unwilling to do it.

I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like victim-blaming bullshit to me.

NO amount of "indifference or emotional unavailability" or anything else justifies an affair. You want out, GET A DIVORCE.

When I read that line above it is clear, and has nothing to do with justifying an affair. You can be the victim of the infidelity (which is to say, the infidelity is NOT OK, and if I cheated, my spouse would be the victim, I was simply wrong to cheat) but your place in the marriage may NOT be the victim (which is to say, my spouse, even though cheated upon, has his role in our marriage which may be aggressor, may be emotional abuser, may be cold, quiet, and indifferent, may be the perpetrator of all things bad in the marriage. And I, as a person in that marriage, also play my role. Which may or may not be related to my stepping out).

[Anonymous]

Nothing original . It's the same thingy mother's Pat Robertson affiliated church was teaching in the 80s to keep those Christian housewives in line.