"the victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"

[Anonymous]

Sounds like something a narcissist would say, and if we looked hard enough we'd like find Esther is a serial cheater.

Only time the cheater is blameless is if the spouse was violent and they just happened to fall for someone kind.

Boredom doesn't count. No sex doesn't count. A spouse with an anxiety disorder doesn't count, a spouse who doesn't want to go out weekly doesn't count. Get divorced .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My affair was my fault.

My affair is not want ended our marriage.

What ended our marriage was both of our faults.

Uh-huh... right, the affair had nothing to do with the end of the marriage:it was merely the catalyst, the ignition, the resulting chaotic,calamitous aftermath....absolutely nothing
.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like victim-blaming bullshit to me.

NO amount of "indifference or emotional unavailability" or anything else justifies an affair. You want out, GET A DIVORCE.

If the spouse is indifferent or emotionally unavailable, what do they even care about the affair? It's like a child holding onto a toy they don't want to play with, just because someone else wants it. Selfish. Let your spouse seek happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who is she?
What are her qualifications?
Is he an actual therapist or another Dan Savage?
How long has she been married?
How many times has she been married?
Has she ever cheated?
Has she ever been cheated on?

She’s a hack
She teaches at NYU
She has a BS degree and a master in expressive therapy

I don’t know the rest but she figured out quick that teaching was going to render her penniless so she writes books to make cheaters feel good. Guess what it sells like snake oil and horse dewormer.

She preys on the desperation of the chested on that if they could just change they will have a perfect marriage. Of course the cheated on can be “better” who can’t. She lets them believe they deserved the abuse. They are too weak to see it’s all a grift.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like something a narcissist would say, and if we looked hard enough we'd like find Esther is a serial cheater.

Only time the cheater is blameless is if the spouse was violent and they just happened to fall for someone kind.

Boredom doesn't count. No sex doesn't count. A spouse with an anxiety disorder doesn't count, a spouse who doesn't want to go out weekly doesn't count. Get divorced .

She's known as a hack and a defender of cheaters fyi.

If it was rape she'd probably say the woman shouldn't have been wearing that short skirt and to question what her part in it was.

The cheater is the only one to blame for putting their spouse at risk for a deadly disease. There's never a reason to cheat in a marriage, and there's only one victim in that regard. If a spouse is violent even more reason not to cheat and move out immediately. A couple can both be responsible for problems in the marriage, but that's a separate issue. Cheating and violence is only the perpetrators fault 100%.

[Anonymous]

absolutely true.

[Anonymous]

So, her 37 years of experience as a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist are not worth anything?

As the so-called "victime" of several affairs, this is what I know - and this is looking through compassionate eyes - I understand that my wife's cheating really had nothing to do with me. Her affairs were a symptom of a deep seated unhappiness and continuing search for attachment that were symptomatic of a personality disorder she suffers from. Towards the end of the marriage - when I was in the process of ending it - I did fall in love with someone and had what many might consider an affair. I did not feel guilty. My marriage was dead and had been for years. As Esther Perel writes, there is nothing lonelier than to be in a marriage where you are not desired.

What ended my marriage was my decision to not put up with any more abuse from my exDW, her inability to be a partner in the daily aspects of the marriage from housework to child-rearing to finances and my unwillingness to be her savior when she was f**king up as a parent, professional or person and unwillingness to go to treatment for her PD. I did use her very last affair as legal leverage to get what I wanted for a settlement agreement.

I do not stand in judgement of anyone. I have no idea of their journey. But I no longer believe that the so-called "cheater" is always wrong nor that the spouse is the "victim." Love, eroticism, sex and desire are all messy, complicated subjects. I read recently that if you are looking for a relationship to make you happy, you will be sorely disappointed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, her 37 years of experience as a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist are not worth anything?

As the so-called "victime" of several affairs, this is what I know - and this is looking through compassionate eyes - I understand that my wife's cheating really had nothing to do with me. Her affairs were a symptom of a deep seated unhappiness and continuing search for attachment that were symptomatic of a personality disorder she suffers from. Towards the end of the marriage - when I was in the process of ending it - I did fall in love with someone and had what many might consider an affair. I did not feel guilty. My marriage was dead and had been for years. As Esther Perel writes, there is nothing lonelier than to be in a marriage where you are not desired.

What ended my marriage was my decision to not put up with any more abuse from my exDW, her inability to be a partner in the daily aspects of the marriage from housework to child-rearing to finances and my unwillingness to be her savior when she was f**king up as a parent, professional or person and unwillingness to go to treatment for her PD. I did use her very last affair as legal leverage to get what I wanted for a settlement agreement.

I do not stand in judgement of anyone. I have no idea of their journey. But I no longer believe that the so-called "cheater" is always wrong nor that the spouse is the "victim." Love, eroticism, sex and desire are all messy, complicated subjects. I read recently that if you are looking for a relationship to make you happy, you will be sorely disappointed.

There are more bad therapists than good ones.

Yes. It’s your fault you cheated. You could have divorced 1st. It was your choice not to divorce 1st.

I’m sure you’ve done the therapy to understand why you stayed too long instead of the mature, strong, forthright thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, her 37 years of experience as a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist are not worth anything?

As the so-called "victime" of several affairs, this is what I know - and this is looking through compassionate eyes - I understand that my wife's cheating really had nothing to do with me. Her affairs were a symptom of a deep seated unhappiness and continuing search for attachment that were symptomatic of a personality disorder she suffers from. Towards the end of the marriage - when I was in the process of ending it - I did fall in love with someone and had what many might consider an affair. I did not feel guilty. My marriage was dead and had been for years. As Esther Perel writes, there is nothing lonelier than to be in a marriage where you are not desired.

What ended my marriage was my decision to not put up with any more abuse from my exDW, her inability to be a partner in the daily aspects of the marriage from housework to child-rearing to finances and my unwillingness to be her savior when she was f**king up as a parent, professional or person and unwillingness to go to treatment for her PD. I did use her very last affair as legal leverage to get what I wanted for a settlement agreement.

I do not stand in judgement of anyone. I have no idea of their journey. But I no longer believe that the so-called "cheater" is always wrong nor that the spouse is the "victim." Love, eroticism, sex and desire are all messy, complicated subjects. I read recently that if you are looking for a relationship to make you happy, you will be sorely disappointed.

There are more bad therapists than good ones.

Yes. It’s your fault you cheated. You could have divorced 1st. It was your choice not to divorce 1st.

I’m sure you’ve done the therapy to understand why you stayed too long instead of the mature, strong, forthright thing.

Exactly.

The cheater also cheats on the family. It's a domino effect. My sil's kids cut off their dad after he left for another woman. The kids were also the victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, her 37 years of experience as a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist are not worth anything?

As the so-called "victime" of several affairs, this is what I know - and this is looking through compassionate eyes - I understand that my wife's cheating really had nothing to do with me. Her affairs were a symptom of a deep seated unhappiness and continuing search for attachment that were symptomatic of a personality disorder she suffers from. Towards the end of the marriage - when I was in the process of ending it - I did fall in love with someone and had what many might consider an affair. I did not feel guilty. My marriage was dead and had been for years. As Esther Perel writes, there is nothing lonelier than to be in a marriage where you are not desired.

What ended my marriage was my decision to not put up with any more abuse from my exDW, her inability to be a partner in the daily aspects of the marriage from housework to child-rearing to finances and my unwillingness to be her savior when she was f**king up as a parent, professional or person and unwillingness to go to treatment for her PD. I did use her very last affair as legal leverage to get what I wanted for a settlement agreement.

I do not stand in judgement of anyone. I have no idea of their journey. But I no longer believe that the so-called "cheater" is always wrong nor that the spouse is the "victim." Love, eroticism, sex and desire are all messy, complicated subjects. I read recently that if you are looking for a relationship to make you happy, you will be sorely disappointed.

There are more bad therapists than good ones.

Yes. It’s your fault you cheated. You could have divorced 1st. It was your choice not to divorce 1st.

I’m sure you’ve done the therapy to understand why you stayed too long instead of the mature, strong, forthright thing.

I don’t consider myself to have cheated. My STBX was long ago checked out. I stayed for the children. Once they were adults, I was out. NOT.ONE.SINGLE.MEMBER.OF.MY.FAMILY nor any of my friends judged me. They all knew the hell I suffered for 22 years. What any one tells me on DCUM doesn’t matter to me at all. My life! I’ll live it my way. You can only take so long of living with someone who dies nothing but take from you gives nothing in return.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is very 2015 thinking. Psychologist have done much research since.

Marriages are an agreement between 2 adult parties unless it is an arranged marriage or if one is being held hostage.

Affairs are not and agreement between 2 people.

It is not reasonable to blame somebody for their spouses actions and is a kin to saying: "I wouldn't hit her if she wasn't such a B*tch" or "I drink because he is such a jerk".

People need to take responsibility for their own actions. If the marriage sucks end it. But... but... but... I don't want to, plain and simple. For the kids, for the money, for selfishness. It's a choice to stay married. It's a breach of an agreement to have an affair.

I agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is very 2015 thinking. Psychologist have done much research since.

Marriages are an agreement between 2 adult parties unless it is an arranged marriage or if one is being held hostage.

Affairs are not and agreement between 2 people.

It is not reasonable to blame somebody for their spouses actions and is a kin to saying: "I wouldn't hit her if she wasn't such a B*tch" or "I drink because he is such a jerk".

People need to take responsibility for their own actions. If the marriage sucks end it. But... but... but... I don't want to, plain and simple. For the kids, for the money, for selfishness. It's a choice to stay married. It's a breach of an agreement to have an affair.

I agree but I think when it comes to kids, it's not so black and white. Cheating occurs when the marriage is over (usually both to blame), why punish the kids too. I do have empathy when kids are involved, the only true victims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, her 37 years of experience as a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist are not worth anything?

As the so-called "victime" of several affairs, this is what I know - and this is looking through compassionate eyes - I understand that my wife's cheating really had nothing to do with me. Her affairs were a symptom of a deep seated unhappiness and continuing search for attachment that were symptomatic of a personality disorder she suffers from. Towards the end of the marriage - when I was in the process of ending it - I did fall in love with someone and had what many might consider an affair. I did not feel guilty. My marriage was dead and had been for years. As Esther Perel writes, there is nothing lonelier than to be in a marriage where you are not desired.

What ended my marriage was my decision to not put up with any more abuse from my exDW, her inability to be a partner in the daily aspects of the marriage from housework to child-rearing to finances and my unwillingness to be her savior when she was f**king up as a parent, professional or person and unwillingness to go to treatment for her PD. I did use her very last affair as legal leverage to get what I wanted for a settlement agreement.

I do not stand in judgement of anyone. I have no idea of their journey. But I no longer believe that the so-called "cheater" is always wrong nor that the spouse is the "victim." Love, eroticism, sex and desire are all messy, complicated subjects. I read recently that if you are looking for a relationship to make you happy, you will be sorely disappointed.

There are more bad therapists than good ones.

Yes. It’s your fault you cheated. You could have divorced 1st. It was your choice not to divorce 1st.

I’m sure you’ve done the therapy to understand why you stayed too long instead of the mature, strong, forthright thing.

I don’t consider myself to have cheated. My STBX was long ago checked out. I stayed for the children. Once they were adults, I was out. NOT.ONE.SINGLE.MEMBER.OF.MY.FAMILY nor any of my friends judged me. They all knew the hell I suffered for 22 years. What any one tells me on DCUM doesn’t matter to me at all. My life! I’ll live it my way. You can only take so long of living with someone who dies nothing but take from you gives nothing in return.

You need more therapy. Your anger issues are toxic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is very 2015 thinking. Psychologist have done much research since.

Marriages are an agreement between 2 adult parties unless it is an arranged marriage or if one is being held hostage.

Affairs are not and agreement between 2 people.

It is not reasonable to blame somebody for their spouses actions and is a kin to saying: "I wouldn't hit her if she wasn't such a B*tch" or "I drink because he is such a jerk".

People need to take responsibility for their own actions. If the marriage sucks end it. But... but... but... I don't want to, plain and simple. For the kids, for the money, for selfishness. It's a choice to stay married. It's a breach of an agreement to have an affair.

I agree but I think when it comes to kids, it's not so black and white. Cheating occurs when the marriage is over (usually both to blame), why punish the kids too. I do have empathy when kids are involved, the only true victims.

No cheating does not happen when the marriage is over.

Being honest and not staying married to a toxic person is best for the kids. If you can’t leave the house change rooms, get separated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, her 37 years of experience as a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist are not worth anything?

As the so-called "victime" of several affairs, this is what I know - and this is looking through compassionate eyes - I understand that my wife's cheating really had nothing to do with me. Her affairs were a symptom of a deep seated unhappiness and continuing search for attachment that were symptomatic of a personality disorder she suffers from. Towards the end of the marriage - when I was in the process of ending it - I did fall in love with someone and had what many might consider an affair. I did not feel guilty. My marriage was dead and had been for years. As Esther Perel writes, there is nothing lonelier than to be in a marriage where you are not desired.

What ended my marriage was my decision to not put up with any more abuse from my exDW, her inability to be a partner in the daily aspects of the marriage from housework to child-rearing to finances and my unwillingness to be her savior when she was f**king up as a parent, professional or person and unwillingness to go to treatment for her PD. I did use her very last affair as legal leverage to get what I wanted for a settlement agreement.

I do not stand in judgement of anyone. I have no idea of their journey. But I no longer believe that the so-called "cheater" is always wrong nor that the spouse is the "victim." Love, eroticism, sex and desire are all messy, complicated subjects. I read recently that if you are looking for a relationship to make you happy, you will be sorely disappointed.

There are more bad therapists than good ones.

Yes. It’s your fault you cheated. You could have divorced 1st. It was your choice not to divorce 1st.

I’m sure you’ve done the therapy to understand why you stayed too long instead of the mature, strong, forthright thing.

I don’t consider myself to have cheated. My STBX was long ago checked out. I stayed for the children. Once they were adults, I was out. NOT.ONE.SINGLE.MEMBER.OF.MY.FAMILY nor any of my friends judged me. They all knew the hell I suffered for 22 years. What any one tells me on DCUM doesn’t matter to me at all. My life! I’ll live it my way. You can only take so long of living with someone who dies nothing but take from you gives nothing in return.

When that happens you divorce. JFC